Talk:StoneToss

StoneToss
StoneToss
Area(s)	Cartoonist; Publisher;
Pseudonym(s)	StoneToss
Notable works	Stonetoss

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"StoneToss" or "Stonetoss"

This article is currently titled "StoneToss". Across his internet presence, StoneToss/Stonetoss uses CamelCase and Title case inconsistently.

In the title of his website he uses CamelCase. [1]
On the about page of his official website, he uses Title case. [2]
On his official FaceBook page, he uses CamelCase. [3]
On Twitter/X he uses Title case. [4]
On YouTube, he again uses CamelCase. [5]
On Instagram, he has a space between "Stone" and "Toss" and both are capitalized. [6]
On his various e-commerce pages, he does not use caps at all. [[7][8]
On his crypto/NFT pages, he uses Title case again. [9][10]

Capitalization is also inconsistent across the media reporting about him, with about 2/3rds using "Stonetoss" and 1/3rd using "StoneToss". StoneToss/Stonetoss himself them interchangeably about half the time.

Should this page be titled "StoneToss" or should be renamed "Stonetoss"? Which is more correct? GranCavallo (talk) 14:36, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I lean "StoneToss" because that's used for the webcomic website. —Alalch E. 16:08, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page history clear request

Hello. As the article meets the criteria of WP: LIBEL, falsely identifying the accused individual (without proof) of being Stonetoss and a neo-Nazi, may an administrator wipe the page history so that that it is not shown?

I have been trying to reach info-en-q@wikipedia.org for this situation but not sure how long responses typically take. I'm requesting that this article is locked and wiped until the discussion is concluded.

Thank you! :) ShownDownl (talk) 15:51, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... until the discussion is concluded: What discussion specifically? —Alalch E. 15:54, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My email about the libelous nature of the article. I'm requesting that the article is not published until the matter is concluded.

Hope that clears up everything. ShownDownl (talk) 15:59, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification. I understand your position, but I disagree. You can not enforce that the content stay blanked while something that you believe is going on is going on. Wikipedia has its own, internal, autochthonous, decision-making processes. If you want to nominate this article for deletion, you may pursue the WP:AfD venue. From where I stand, this is appropriate encyclopedic content. Sincerely —Alalch E. 16:05, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The citation gives out the name of a falsely accused individual. This is WP: LIBEL and needs to be discussed before the page is created. This is doxxing, a form of stalking, at best. Surely you can wait for 24 hours? ShownDownl (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, can't stop knowledge. —Alalch E. 16:13, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're arguing that the article should falsely accuse someone of something they didn't do. Wait until the matter is resolved through info-en-q@wikipedia.org. ShownDownl (talk) 16:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not gonna. The article covers a topic of encyclopedic interest per the available sourcing. —Alalch E. 16:18, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only individual in thebarticle that describes StoneToss as a neo-Nazi is Alejandra Caraballo. That certainly seems problematic to say the least. As currently written, the page essentially acts as WP: LIBEL against an individual that some think is StoneToss, and most of the claims against StoneToss are based off of other accounts that they think is him.

Do you see the problem with this? ShownDownl (talk) 16:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the first few citations:

Wired calls StoneToss "neo-Nazi" while not deciding on the allegations
DailyDot (years before the recent doxing controversy) stated he was promoting Holocaust denial, racism, homophobia, sexism and anti-semitism.

In the article, Caraballo is mentioned as having been blocked for disclosing the alleged identity of StoneToss, but she is not used as the source for the claim that StoneToss is a neo-Nazi. And, crucially, the latter does not depend on whether StoneToss's private identity is the individual in question. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 16:32, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The newest source and the most detailed one, the Wired article from today, describes the author simply as a "neo-Nazi cartoonist". It was written by a reasonably seasoned journalist David Gilbert who had written on this topic before and is familiar with the topic, and can be assumed to have taken a responsible approach to the topic. His article was checked by Wire's editor, and Wire is a solid publication for which there is a consensus on Wikipedia that it is a reliable source for areas in its expertise, and internet topics are its expertise. Our article then goes on to describe how exactly StoneToss is a neo-Nazi cartoon, basing itself on various other, rather serious, sources that explain that it is a crypto-Nazi cartoon (which also means: neo-Nazi cartoon, presented in a way that attempts to obfuscate its nature), that the author "pulls from neo-Nazi views and makes them more palatable for a broader audience", and that the content is of an "extreme rightwing" orientation, and "extreme rightwing" is cognate with neo-Nazi. The comic is a series of neo-Nazi cartoons and its author is a neo-Nazi, according to the sources. —Alalch E. 16:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello and good day. There are no procedure to "remove an article" through that email. The correct procedure is taking it through WP:AFD. However, if the article contained errors you can change it by yourself. Can you point out which part of the article is erroneous? Please provide references to your statements. Thank you and have a wonderful day. ✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 16:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I understand your concerns, whether you are the person mentioned or someone else worried about their privacy. It is indeed better for this to be discussed (and I invite you, if you wish, to send the article to AfD to discuss it). However, it is best to keep in mind that:

The article doesn't directly mention the name of the alleged person, although publicly-accessible sources mentioning it are cited
The article also doesn't claim that StoneToss is this person, only that others have alleged it, without stating on the veracity of these allegations
The allegations have been published in reliable sources — which Wikipedia only reports on
Given the public nature of such allegations, it is better to discuss them in public (for instance, on this talk page or at an AfD discussion)

I invite you to look at Wikipedia:BLPREMOVE for more information on how to deal with these issues, and Wikipedia:FAQ/Article subjects if you are the person mentioned. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 16:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

how is it "falsely identifying" when the man himself has proudly admitted multiple times to being one 199.119.233.232 (talk) 23:58, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't question the sock's ways, for they are mysterious. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 01:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When has StoneToss "proudly admitted multiple times to being" a Neo-Nazi? From what I've seen, he's always denied it. GranCavallo (talk) 03:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with @GranCavallo It says on his about page that he reject any belief in fascism or supremacy of any kind. trainrobber >be me 17:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Going back to the infobox

New infobox maybe?

keep this one separate from Template:Infobox Webcomic trainrobber >be me 17:51, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any value with giving his website clicks off Wikipedia. I'd suggest we leave the infobox off entirely. Simonm223 (talk) 17:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you could use the previous infobox or this one if you want to. I find it to be my suggestion to the article. trainrobber >be me 17:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My objection is to including a link to his website in any infobox, not the specific format. Simonm223 (talk) 18:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok trainrobber >be me 18:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was wondering if this was a policy for controversial cartoonists of some sort. I checked Scott Adams, Sinfest, and Robert Crumb, but they all give a link to the source material on their pages. GoggleGoose (talk) 18:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Civil Discussion

I am casually observing that after a deletion discussion was started (here [11]), a good faith edit to the page was made referencing the discussion by @GranCavallo (here [12]), but was quickly reverted by @Simonm223 in favor of more contentious language (here [13])

I think we should be more careful in a WP:BLP article. GoggleGoose (talk) 18:15, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's reliably sourced and, frankly, is accurate. I'm aware he's said otherwise but... please don't make me break out the Sartre quote from Antisemite and Jew again. Simonm223 (talk) 18:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is exactly the point of the deletion discussion. GoggleGoose (talk) 18:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]