Talk:Edmund (King Lear)

Shakespeare Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Shakespeare, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of William Shakespeare on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ShakespeareWikipedia:WikiProject ShakespeareTemplate:WikiProject ShakespeareShakespeare
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Fictional characters

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character

Macbeth-Lear Link ("Origins" Section)

I have fallen down a research rabbit hole in my attempt to verify the possible link between Macbeth and the Lear "Gloucester plot" included in the "Origins" section of this article which was, before my edits, unsourced and unverified.

I came upon Medieval Lands, which seems to be an extremely well-sourced and thorough resource on the topic of royal genealogies dating back to the 5th century CE. Its page on Scottish Kings (including Malcolm III of Scotland) includes some but not all of the information discussed in the "Origins" section of this article. This is the source I added to the article, although it is ultimately a compilation of multiple primary sources, many of which seem to contradict each other.

Here is the information I was able to find (summarized):

-According to multiple sources (inc. Roger of Hoveden, The Chronicle of John of Fordun, The Annals of Ulster, William of Malmesbury, and Cronica Regum Scottorum), Malcolm III did have sons named Edmund and Edgar.

-Other sources (Orderic Vitalis, Florence of Worcester) fail to mention Edmund.

-Some sources (see: William of Malmesbury) state that he aiding in the death of his brother (probably referencing his half-brother Duncan II), thereby "betray[ing] his immediate family" as this Wiki article claims.

-I found no reference to Malcolm III's supposed death by being stabbed in the eye referenced by this resource. More research is necessary to verify or debunk that claim.

-Edgar is indeed referenced as a younger brother to Edmund (see: Roger of Hoveden, who lists Edmund as the second of Malcolm III and Margaret of England's sons and Edgar as the third).

-Edgar's deposition of Edmund is also referenced (see: Florence of Worcester). His reign as King of Scotland is mentioned as well (see: Robert of Torigny who calls him "Edgarus rex Scotiæ" and The Chronicle of the Picts and Scots, which claims he reigned for nine years)

-Edmund of Scotland's section agrees with this Wiki article on the point that he was sent to a monastery, but the source for that claim is less clear than the rest of the information.

-I can find no evidence to suggest that the choice of names by Shakespeare is anything but a coincidence. (Are the names Edmund and Edgar of Shakespeare's choosing at all? I am not well-versed in Gloucester plot source texts, but I know that the prototypical characters are not called Edmund and Edgar in Sidney's story!)

Here is what needs further research and citation:

-The primary sources referenced by Medieval Lands' Kings of Scotland page could be added as sources for this Wiki article claim-by-claim

-A source needs to be found for stabbing in the eye as Malcolm III's cause of death

-A source needs to be found suggesting that Shakespeare's choice of names is intentional to make the claim that "the choice of Edmund and Edgar as names may have been a nod by Shakespeare to the continued story of the Scottish throne following the events of Macbeth" anything more than speculation.

-Some specification should be made that the primary sources for the history of Edmund and Edgar of Scotland are not all in agreement about the facts of their stories. TheRainbowWillow (talk) 02:11, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]