Talk:2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries

Dean Phillips inclusion survey

There have been several discussions on the matter which are hard to follow. Hopefully a final centralized discussion will help to determine a true consensus. Should Dean Phillips be included in the infobox? Esolo5002 (talk) 21:31, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The second place real person should always be included in my opinion. KittyTeam (talk) 21:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

No. There should only be one second-place person in the infobox, and Palmer takes priority as he won a statewide contest. Longestview (talk) 23:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

No. There was an RFC in 2017 and also in 2020 where these issues were discussed and where criteria for infobox inclusion was established. Phillips does not meet the current criteria. We should not deviate from these decisions without another formal RFC. Michelangelo1992 (talk) 23:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The second place person's inclusion in the infobox for presidential primaries is clear precedent; there seems to be an attempt to limit the infobox to three people, this is inherently limiting as there is a person who won the second-most amount of contests (1) and a different person who won the second-most amount of delegates (4). They both warrant inclusion. RickStrate2029 (talk) 18:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Y'know, I think a Better question should be "What should the criteria for inclusion in this articles infobox be?:" rather than just "DeAn PHIlliPs InClusion sUrvRy",but until then, I'll go for Yes. InterDoesWiki (talk) 22:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Phillips has won delegates. With such a low number of candidates who have actually done so, it makes both Phillips and Palmer notable enough over every other minor candidate. Yeoutie (talk) 03:12, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, he should be there since he is the second candidate with more delegates (one above Palmer) and clearly has gotten much more media attention than Palmer as the second place in the Democratic primaries. H3nrique Bregie (talk) 10:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

NO. Phillips has neither 5% of the vote, nor has won a contest. Adding him would mean adding people like Ben Carson, Rudy Giuliani, and John Edwards to their primary pages. NonHydranary (talk) 00:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. He is the second place human.If this means we need to change other pages to reflect this policy, so be it. Jeff101 jr (talk) 05:22, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. He is the second place human in terms of both popular vote and delegate count. Palmer should still remain seeing as he won a contest, but there is no clear reason to include Palmer without including Phillips as well. 2600:100C:B231:A833:645B:81A2:EAB6:39D1 (talk) 21:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

No per the 2017 & 2020 RFC only one second place challenger should be featured if the race was non-competitive, in this case it was already Palmer (who held the second-most states). Expoe34 (talk) 05:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

This article needs attention.

It does not reflect events of the past couple of weeks which dramatically affect its composition. I am not an experienced editor and don’t feel comfortable doing it myself and want to give experienced editors the opportunity first. 65.131.41.68 (talk) 12:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

What specifically do you feel needs to be mentioned? While yes there has been sigificant events regarding who is/will be the Democratic nominee, nothing has really occured related to the primaries, which is the topic of this article. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 13:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Emphasis on relevance to the article's topic itself the party's 2024 primaries (which ended in June, before this talk page thread was created in July).

"events of the past couple of weeks" in general will be the reason inclusion of content is not appropriate.

see WP: NOTNEWS ("what wikipedia is not: wikipedia is not a newspaper").

^{NOTE: "Giving" experienced editors "opportunity" (first or otherwise) is like seeing litter and "giving" volunteer litter crews "first opportunity" to pick it up.}

^{If you think adding something will improve an article}

^{- if you want to add it, you should add it.}

^{If you think you accidentally might fuck it up}

^{- you should add it.} Pimprncess (talk) 03:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

If Joe Biden is not the nominee

Yes, I know WP:CRYSTALBALL but considering that there is a real possibility that Biden is not the Democratic nominee, I figured I'd post this so there is a plan in place in case someone else (say, Kamala Harris) is the nominee. Since, as far as I know, neither party has nominated someone so unexpectedly in the era of national primaries, I am using the precedent of the 1968 Democratic Party presidential primaries page, where the eventual nominee was Hubert Humphrey, who actually came in fifth in the delegate count and sixth in the popular vote in the primaries. In that infobox, Humphrey is shown after the two leading primary candidates. Based on that, I am proposing having Harris in the last position on the infobox but having her name be bolded.

Of course, WP:CRYSTALBALL so we cannot assume Kamala Harris will be the nominee. If it's someone else, we can simply change the photo, name, and vote total.

I looked through all state results very quickly. More research might find more information. This was the number of write-ins for Harris that I found: Vermont: 23, Pennsylvania: 10 [1] Total: 33

There's probably an argument to be made that, whether or not Joe Biden is the nominee, he has won the primaries in the sense that he has the most pledged delegates (even if they do not ultimately vote for him)

2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries

January 23 to June 8, 2024
3,949 delegates to the Democratic National Convention 1,975 delegates needed to win
Opinion polls
Candidate Joe Biden Uncommitted Dean Phillips Home state Delaware – Minnesota Delegate count 3,905 37 4 Contests won 56 0 0 Popular vote 14,465,519 706,591 529,486 Percentage 87.1% 4.3% 3.2%   File:Jason Palmer Website (cropped).jpg Candidate Jason Palmer Kamala Harris Home state Maryland California Delegate count 3 0 Contests won 1 0 Popular vote 20,975 33 Percentage 0.1% 0.0%
Joe Biden   Jason Palmer   Primary canceled
Previous Democratic nominee Joe Biden Democratic nominee Kamala Harris

Baconheimian (talk) 15:01, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Biden no longer running for President

https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1815080881981190320 2601:C6:8303:5A90:61AE:13E3:1EE1:E739 (talk) 18:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Color for Harris?

This is a very small detail, but what color should Kamala Harris be in the infobox? We already have Tennessee's delegates backing Harris, so she will definitely be in the infobox. I don't think she should be navy like Biden, just to differentiate between the two. I think a dark scarlet or teal could contrast nicely. Here's my proposal:

Biden:  

Harris:  

Williamson:  

Phillips:  

Palmer:  

Other:   (If any other candidate gets delegates. Looks like Manchin might?) QuailWatts (talk) 23:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

She already had a color for herself from the 2020 primaries which is this one:   #ff7538 Punker85 (talk) 00:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

The issue I have with that color is that it is too close to the orange used for Dean Phillips and could be confusing. Consistent colors between primaries, while nice, isn't a requirement, like Mitt Romney in 2008 and 2012. QuailWatts (talk) 01:16, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the colors of Dean Phillips and Harris are different enough for Harris to keep her color and I don't think an instance of a inconsistent color for a candidate should allow us to also do the same for other candidates Punker85 (talk) 01:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I support Red being used for Harris, as her 2020 color and dean phillips are too similar and may confusing for some users. Alternatively we could change Phillips’ as Harris takes priority Expoe34 (talk) 21:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I support keeping Harris the same as previous for consistency. The easiest way to do this would be to change Phillips to something different. She has already generated significantly more news coverage in the past 48 hours than Phillips did during his entire campaign, so I feel that the consistency is warranted. Michelangelo1992 (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

• I support either keeping it at red or, for the sake of consistency, keep her orange as long as Phillips's color is changed to red. Two shades of orange is just very confusing, especially with other more distinctive colors are available. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:14, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Two "Declined" sections

Is there a difference between the two groups based on pre-/post-Biden withdrawing, or is it just a redundancy that should be merged into one section? 2601:406:4200:73F0:A412:F4F4:66FB:3FAC (talk) 06:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It's the first one. The section could use some reorganizing. David O. Johnson (talk) 07:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

They were redundant sections after all. I've combined them into one section. David O. Johnson (talk) 19:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Delagate count for Harris in info box?

Some slates of delagates that were pledged to Biden have since endorsed Harris (for example: Louisiana, Maryland, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Tennessee). Should Harris be given a delegate count in the info box to reflect this? Or would this violate WP:CRYSTALBALL? I know that Biden has released his delegates so they can support any candidate, and I know an endorsement isn't binding in the same way being a "pledged" delegate is, but I figure an endorsement directly from these delegates means that these delegates are absolutely, definitively going to support Harris and so would be effectively the same as them pledging themselves to Harris.

Another option could be to have a note next to the delegate count number in the info box that specifies that this is due to an endorsement rather than being pledged as a result of a primary contest.

I'm thinking the box could look something like this, with the note saying Delegates from LA, MD, SC, and TN who were previously pledged to Joe Biden have endorsed Kamala Harris. :

2024 Democratic Party presidential primaries

Presidential primary
January 23 to June 8, 2024
3,949 delegates to the Democratic National Convention 1,975 delegates needed to win
Opinion polls
Candidate Joe Biden (withdrawn) Uncommitted Home state Delaware – Delegate count 3,905 37 Contests won 56 0 Popular vote 14,465,519 706,591 Percentage 87.1% 4.3%   File:Jason Palmer Website (cropped).jpg Candidate Dean Phillips (withdrawn) Jason Palmer (withdrawn) Home state Minnesota Maryland Delegate count 4 3 Contests won 0 1 Popular vote 529,486 20,975 Percentage 3.2% 0.1%
Joe Biden   Jason Palmer   Primary canceled
Convention nomination
August 19, 2024 (tentative)
3,949 delegates to the Democratic National Convention 1,975 delegates needed to win votes needed to win
Candidate Kamala Harris Marianne Williamson Home state California Washington, D.C. Delegate count 261
Previous Democratic nominee Joe Biden Democratic nominee TBD

Thms (talk) 17:53, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Harris picture

I think the picture of Harris should be changed from her official vice-presidential portrait to a more recent one since in the Democratic 2024, 2020, 2016, Republican 2024, 2020, 2016, 2012 primaries articles the vast majority of pictures used for candidates, with the notable exception of candidates who are incumbent presidents, are ones taken during or close in time to the primaries instead of official portraits. Harris is not the incumbent president, so I think a more recent image should be used for her Punker85 (talk) 22:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

But she is the incumbent VP. Her portrait was taken at the same time as Biden's was and in my opinion, her appearance didn't change dramatically for it to warrant an 'updated' picture. At this point, if we're going to change Kamala's pic, we should do the same for Joe or if we're keeping Joe's portrait, I can't see a valid reason as to why Kamala's shouldn't be kept. I was also opposed to changing Trump's portrait on the 2024 US election article, but the consensus was that the pic was seven years out dated and that his appearance allegedly changed. Three years (year of Kamala's pic) is not a long time IMO for there to be a drastic change in appearance to warrant a change in picture. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Williamson in infobox

I believe that even though an earlier consensus agreed the second-place human candidate should be on the infobox, Williamson doesn’t fit the criteria. As she’s received no pledged delegates, or support besides stating that she’s challenging Harris Expoe34 (talk) 02:22, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Williamson is in the convention nomination section of the infobox, not in the section about the primaries. So, I think the criteria for inclusion in the infobox shouldn't apply for the convention section since the convention isn't really a part of the primaries and I think all declared major candidates should instead be included in the convention section Punker85 (talk) 20:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Not everyone who ran in the primaries is running in the convention, so that would be unnecessary. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:41, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

True and I think I badly expressed myself. What I wanted to say is that I think declared major candidates who are still running in the race should be included in the convention nomination section of the infobox. So like how candidates were included in the infoboxes of state primaries/caucuses articles for the 2024 Republican and Democratic primaries before the results were in Punker85 (talk) 01:39, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not even sure who's running, tbh. I think Harris filed, but details are sparse. [2]. Today was the deadline to submit it [3] and I haven't seen anything indicating Williamson filed.

If Kamala is the only one running, the virtual vote will be held as early August 1. [4].

We'll find out what's going on eventually.David O. Johnson (talk) 02:24, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Harris filed according to the FEC: [5]

As for Williamson, she amended her statement of candidacy on July 8: [6] Punker85 (talk) 17:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Punker85, the FEC filing has no bearing on the virtual roll call process, which is separate.

Please see this NPR article: [7] and this CBS article: [8] for more info on that process.

As I mentioned earlier, it seems that Harris filed for it (per The Hill article), but it's unclear if Williamson did the same. David O. Johnson (talk) 18:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Ah, OK, I misunderstood what you said earlier Punker85 (talk) 22:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)