Wikipedia talk:Administrators

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Violations of rules

Dear Sir/Madam,

On one of your sites, Wikipedia.org, the English version of the page about tennis player Novak Djokovic is experiencing constant vandalism and reversion of edits. Some individuals, who lack substantial arguments and approach the matter emotionally, repeatedly delete the sentence stating that Novak Djokovic is the greatest male tennis player of all time, simply because they do not consider him as such. However, all relevant sources cited according to Wikipedia's citation guidelines do not dispute this claim.

Here is the link to the specific case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novak_Djokovic

My question is: why does your community allow such blatant violations of its own rules? Why is it not permitted to present facts and truth regarding a particular matter? Does Wikipedia/Wikimedia, as a non-profit organization, support various ideologies or specific political agendas, or operate under any particular instructions?

This is not merely a request but a demand. I kindly ask that the sentence in the introduction of the Novak Djokovic article be preserved. Should these issues persist and you remain unresponsive, I will be compelled to seek legal recourse and file a complaint in the appropriate court under your jurisdiction for violations of your own clearly established rules. It seems excessive for someone to unilaterally decide on rules that you yourselves have established.

It's users Fyunck and someone who is not registered who violate wikipedia principles and rules!

Sincerely, Mr. Nebojša Jakovljević — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mctoxic88 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Copyediting

I have made series of WP:Bold changes to this policy page, aiming to clarify confusing sentences, cull repeated guidance, and increase concision, all while preserving guidance determined by community consensus. [1][2] Clearly, I have failed, and as @Andrybak have disagreed with the edits, I wanted to start a discussion. Andrybak has given helpful feedback: from the edit summary, I realized I have deleted a policy shortcut template, which was not intended. Andrybak pointed out I changed some wording that was determined via consensus. While I believe to have preserved the intended meaning in such sentences, I should have made a effort to discuss beforehand.

However, I believe most of my other copyedits were improvements, and I would like others to identify problematic aspects, so that copyedits identified to be improvements can remain intact. Ca ^{talk to me!} 14:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

"Involved" exception when dealing with threats

Based on what I see at WP:AN#More admin misconduct, I suggest adding more explicit language to the vandalism and "purely administrative" areas concerning involvement to the effect that any administrator may take appropriate measures to deal with any editor who makes threats against them or anyone else. I'm sure somebody can argue how "threats" may be parsed, but we can certainly agree on violence, stalking, or doxxing as obvious candidates. Acroterion (talk) 19:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

One simple addition would be to add "or threats" so it reads "In straightforward cases (e.g., blatant vandalism or threats)...". However, lists of examples tend to expand with time and end up being read as definitive statements. In the recent incident linked in the OP, I doubt that anyone would have reacted differently if "or threats" were present—the people concerned have no idea and would have made the same fuss regardless of what this page said. Johnuniq (talk) 02:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

The things Drmies was having to deal with were 100% covered by the "straightforward cases" exception, no questions asked. I agree with Johnuniq that a wording change wouldn't have made a difference in this situation (or in any others I can envision). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:42, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

While I agree with you, there was some sentiment for a leisurely consultative approach, or for a put-up-with-it-or-resign approach, citing the policy, an interpretation with which I profoundly disagree. But I'm sensitive to instruction creep too, which is equally subject to philosophical gaming. I find the parlor game of "is this admin involved because they 'disagree' " tiresome and time-wasting, and I view the language of the policy as a bit equivocal. I may be influenced by spending the past couple of days writing contracts, which causes anyone to second-guess every word they write. Acroterion (talk) 14:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Two-year inactivity rule phrasing

Admins removed for inactivity have to run a new RfA if they want to be resysopped after a two-year period of inactivity. For admins removed under the recent 5-year/100-edit inactivity requirement, does that mean two years after the removal of admin tools (as WP:ADMIN#Restoration of admin tools suggests), or does it mean two years from the last edit or log action (as WP:RESYSOP suggests)? It doesn't really matter which answer we choose, but it's important to resolve the ambiguity one way or another so there are no issues when it inevitably comes up at WP:BN. Probably the easiest solution would be to change the sentence here beginning In the case of an administrator desysopped due to a year of inactivity... to "In the case of an administrator desysopped due to inactivity, the two-year clock starts from the last edit or log action prior to the desysop" or something like that. (This came up previously here.) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Is this RfC getting at what you wanted (which wasn't formally closed only because consensus was clear so it didn't feel like a formal close was necessary)? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

That involved a different inactivity rule (five-years-from-last-tool-use), but you're right that it's basically the same question. I think the best way to follow the logic of that RfC is to make the change I suggested above, which hopefully won't be too controversial. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Wearing my full formal wikilawyer hat, A) WP:ADMIN is policy and WP:CRAT, of which WP:RESYSOP is part, is a summary of policy, so where they conflict it has to be RESYSOP that's incorrect; and B) the shorter 1-year period for no-edits only applies if "an administrator desysopped due to a year of inactivity" - that is, the one year total inactivity rule, not the 5-year/100-edit one.

Wearing my reasonable person hat, B is bonkers, and, for that matter, so is all the text after the boldface "Over two years with no edits". The specific inactivity rule shouldn't matter; and if you accept that, then I can't for the life of me think of a situation where you can get desysopped without it being either involuntary (and thus ineligible), for inactivity, or making an edit to request it. And I doubt I'd be the only person to look far askance at a resysop request saying the two-year-zero-edits rule should start from the desysop timestamp instead of the actual last edit solely because you asked to resign on Discord or IRC or whatever instead of even bothering to log on and ask at WP:BN like a normal person. Just look for a two-year period with zero edits - simple rule, easy to check, makes sense.

Not that any of that, or the rfc about the 5-year-no-logged-actions rule, deal cleanly with the 5-year/100-edit inactivity rule - you can be inside the limit of either or both of the "Lengthy inactivity" subitems while still qualifying to be desysopped for having under a hundred edits. But that's one of the things that the "bureaucrat is not reasonably convinced" rule is for. —Cryptic 01:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

If people are fine with replacing the bullet point with "a new RfA is required if the admin was totally inactive during any two-year period ending after the desysop" (or some more elegant wording), I agree that'd be even better. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:48, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:List of administrators/Discord

How do people feel about creating a list of administrators who can be contacted on Discord, similar to Wikipedia:List of administrators/IRC? I anticipate there will be some concerns because the Discord server's public logs are oversightable here, and some support because IRC is so thirty years ago. Folly Mox (talk) 13:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)