Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1940–41 Primera Fuerza season

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. I understand the original close and the factors that led there. The sources identified, depth discussed and subsequent discussion lead to the significant coverage required to retain this. Improvement may be needed, but there's sufficient sourcing with which to do so. Star Mississippi 12:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1940–41 Primera Fuerza season

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Only very minimal content inside the article and has no inline citations. The one and only source ([1]) is by the RSSSF, which collects statistics of every football result. Due to it lacking coverage in sources, it fails WP:GNG. Azarctic (talk) 01:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Mexico. Azarctic (talk) 01:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am curious why you picked this season page out of all of them from 1902-03 to 1942-43. Technically there is nothing wrong with the article, it shows a historical table of what was then called an amateur league. However I believe the league did have good coverage in Mexican media. There maybe room for improvement, but in it's current form, I would combined all the league tables into one or maybe two articles. But historically, this league is part of the history of football in Mexico. So... also, how much WP:BEFORE did you do? I guess the coverage would be different in the 1940s due to WW2 and the political situation, so my bet is it's all about the offline sources anyway. Govvy (talk) 09:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These tables are irrelevant anyway. It can’t be that significant if it’s getting 19 views per month either. All these seasonal articles should really be redirected to Primera Fuerza or deleted because there is barely anything in them in terms on content, which is why I picked this one because it has less content than the others, as well as barely any coverage. Azarctic (talk) 11:38, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 19:14, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Primera Fuerza - possible search term. Giant Snowman 19:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Direct predecessor of the current Liga MX, there is a lack of sources but the notability exists. Svartner (talk) 11:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- In addition, the article in Spanish has literary sources on the history of Mexican football that seem credible to validate the information. Svartner (talk) 11:57, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. A review of sources, and those in the Spanish-language article, would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - just to be clear, deleting this article would also confer deleting every single "Primera Fuerza" season from 1902 to 1943. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:48, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as this division is notable, and so are its seasons— important to note that it was the highest-level division in the country. Impossible for me to review and search all the Spanish-language offline sources, but the existence of sources such as Crónica del fútbol mexicano: Por amor a la camiseta and Historia General del Fútbol Mexicano and their usage as sources on the Spanish-language article suggest that they have material related to this specific season and the other seasons of this competition as well. Overall, it does us no good deleting this as it's clearly the highest level for football back then in Mexico, sets a bad precedent for football seasons in other countries too. The only reason this would be deleted is because it's hard to find offline sources, to dissect them, and to use them on Wikipedia. Which would be a shame. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And from experience, the RSSSF tends to be highly reliable for the tables of these older competitions. Svartner (talk) 18:10, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I see No consensus yet. I'll just add that we don't judge notability based on how many views an article gets per month but by whether reliable sources can demonstrate SIGCOV.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:48, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - obviously notable. Article should be improved. No one would propose deleting a 1940s England Division 3 table; nominations like this baffle me. Nfitz (talk) 14:34, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I closed this discussion as a Redirect but several editors have challenged the closure (which I will post below this relisting) so I have reverted my closure and given the discussion a final relist and will have another closer review this discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:13, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was my original closure of this discussion The result was redirect‎ to Primera Fuerza. Closing this as a Redirect as an ATD. Despite this AFD being open for 3 weeks, editors have failed to add a single reliable source to the article under discussion or bring one into this discussion so I can not close this as Keep. I encouraged editors to review sources in the Spanish language article but that didn't happen either. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:14, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The three additional sources in the Spanish language version of this article at es:Liga Mayor 1940-41.^[1]^[2]^[3] Two of them are offline (though I haven't dug deeply); but the third (a 286-page book discussing the first 110 years of Mexican football) can be reviewed at https://archive.org/details/oncedcadasdeftbo0000ramr. Aspects of the season are discussed in Chapter 9, particularly starting at page 77. Some of the references and bibliography at es:Campeonato de Primera Fuerza de la FMF/Liga Mayor#Bibliografía may also be relevant.

^ Galindo Zárate, Jesús (December 2007). Historia General del Fútbol Mexicano (Primera ed.). México: Francisco J. Camargo. pp. 84–85.
^ Calderón Cardoso, Carlos (July 1998). Crónica del fútbol mexicano: Por amor a la camiseta (Primera ed.). México: Clío.
^ Ramírez, Carlos F. (June 2010). 11 décadas de fútbol mexicano (Primera ed.). México: Octavio Antonio Colmenares y Vargas.

Nfitz (talk) 05:04, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Galindo Zárate, Jesús (December 2007). Historia General del Fútbol Mexicano (Primera ed.). México: Francisco J. Camargo. pp. 84–85.

[2] Calderón Cardoso, Carlos (July 1998). Crónica del fútbol mexicano: Por amor a la camiseta (Primera ed.). México: Clío.

[3] Ramírez, Carlos F. (June 2010). 11 décadas de fútbol mexicano (Primera ed.). México: Octavio Antonio Colmenares y Vargas.

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