Talk:Cat/Archive 9

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Archive 1 (Mar 6 2005 to Aug 16 2005) Archive 2 (Aug 16 2005 to Nov 6 2005) Archive 3 (Nov 6 2005 to May 5 2006) Archive 4 (May 5 2006 to July 31 2006) Archive 5 (August 1 2006 to November 8 2006) Archive 6 (Cat ownership debate -Nov 29 2006 to Dec 20 2006)

Please fix typo when you get a chance

Could you please fix this "was been" typo: "The cat family was been shown in 2005 to lack the T1R2 protein," in the "Taste" section. Thx. Jdheyerman 21:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Done, but you could have done that yourself. The article is only semi-protected from anonymous and new users, and you appear to be neither of those. howcheng {chat} 21:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I was wondering why it is protected? I can't imagine it being a big target for vandalism...? GBMorris 15:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, just look at the history before the sprotect: [1] Lars T. 17:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Cats vs Scorpions?

After reading this part in the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Domestication)

In rural areas, farms often have dozens of semi-feral cats. Hunting in the barns and the fields, they kill and eat rodents that would otherwise spoil large parts of the grain crop. Many pet cats successfully hunt and kill rabbits, rodents, birds, lizards, frogs, fish, and large insects by instinct, but might not eat their prey. They may even present their kills, dead or maimed, to their humans, perhaps expecting them to praise or reward them, or possibly even to complete the kill and eat the mouse. Others speculate that the behavior is a part of the odd relationship between human and cat, in which the cat is sometimes a 'kitten' (playing, being picked up and carried) and sometimes an adult (teaching these very large and peculiar kittens how to hunt by demonstrating what the point of it all is).

I thought it might be interesting to add that in some semi-desertique areas, cats are domesticated for their specific ability to hunt and catch scorpions,(which are a real danger). They are also known to hunt spiders (some of them are really dangerous where I used to live) and small snakes... I have never seen a cat catch a snake really... but for scorpions and spiders it's a really common sight. I know that we are not here to make a full list of the 100 species a cat can hunt but I thought that those where quite revelant since they are an incentive to keep cats in some regions. I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

I once saw an animal documentary in which an orange desert cat, which by the way looked a lot like a domestic cat, killed a rather large poisonous snake by using its incredible speed to claw it without getting bitten, so yes I believe it's possible to train a domestic cat to kill snakes. Dionyseus 17:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I've seen cats that are rather established at hunting, having killed bees, moths, grasshoppers... consider the fact that the cat is similar to the mongoose.Wise King Otto 21:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

not all cats are female...

This is one of my pet peeves (pardon the pun) for some reason. Everytime someone meets one of my cats they say something like "Awww, isn't SHE sweet." Both my cats are male. Why do people automatically assume all cats are female? Someone should remove all the instances in this article where cats are collectively refered to as "she". I spotted it several times in this article.

Get a female cat, then your friends will have a 33% chance of getting it right. Dionyseus 09:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Eating both cats would also solve the problem. Jonemerson 06:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Good point, though "all the instances" in the article only amount to 2 or 3. There are 2 or 3 others where the pronoun is appropriate (sexual readiness, Bast, etc.) Katzenjammer 10:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I can think of two possible explanations:

1. It may be because of the qualities people keep cats for - mainly companionship nowadays - cats are generally referred to as "she", because females are identified more with those qualities than males.
2. English is a Germanic language. The German word 'Katze' is feminine (compare with 'Hund', dog, which is masculine) - although English, unlike German, refers to almost everything non-living as neuter ('it'), perhaps this is one place we use the old rules of grammar without realising it. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 16:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

- -- Grammar sounds like a good explanation. In Norwegian (also germanic) the word cat can be masculine: 'en katt'. In those part of Norway (Bergen) in which cats are referred to as 'en katt', cats are spoken of as a he (even though many traits of cats are, as in English, talked of as feminine). I am not entirely sure how cats are spoken of in eastern parts of Norway, however I presume cats are spoken of as she here, as they would say ‘ei katt’ (feminine), and I doubt the difference is caused by sexism.Lunde 00:35, 07 December 2006 --

My bet would be pre-conscious sexism. Honestly. Katzenjammer 22:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Quite likely. Though in my experience, cats, like humans, have a slight female-majority in their population. Therefore, if you want the best odds of being right in any situation, it's best to guess female. The difference probably isn't more than 5% at most, though. Not much better odds than flipping a coin! Cheers, Kasreyn 05:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

You could always just ask. It could even become an extremely brief acronomial prefix to all cat introductions. Jaz Mcdougall 01:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Section move / duplication request

Hi everyone. I note that the section on declawing contains a great deal of useful information entirely absent from Onychectomy. In fact, the section, if it were taken as an article on its own, would make a better article than the one currently at Onychectomy. Can I get some suggestions on which material would be most appropriate to move to the main article on the subject? It's important to retain a mention of it here, but this article is already quite long. All this article really needs is a quick run-down of what declawing is, why it is controversial, and briefly, what the opposing viewpoints are. Thanks in advance, Kasreyn 05:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Number of pics

More important than people replacing pictures on the page is the number of pictures on the page. How many pics do we need of cats grooming? I dont care if people replace pictures as long as they do a better job of depicting something better than the previous picture (which most pics on the page already do a good job). But there is all too many. This isnt a collage, its a wiki article.--Nytemunkey 06:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Pictures on the page

Hello, I am sorry, I am starting to be interested in article edit and enhancing pictorially mostly. I did not know this article required photos to be discussed prior to their posting. I added a picture of an Orange Tabby and I just noticed it was deleted. Can we discuss that picture to see if we can reference it again? Orange tabbys are very very common. Think Garfield. Thank you --Mmgfish 05:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

more an issue thatin the case of this article we already have rather a lot of pics. Further pics should probably go on commons.Geni 00:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Expert Advice

Err, pardon this odd question, but umm....well is there an expert on cats here? I have a question. You see, my cat err.... how should I say this...breastfeeds on herself. Is this normal? In all my 13 years, never have I seen a cat do this! I just want to be on the safe side, don't want to it to be a medical problem! Who knows? If this is properly explained, this could probably be a part of this article, with a picture, too. Yes, I have taken a picture of my cat doing that. Ick. gracias, Kyo cat^meow! 03:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

pix plz --Sam Blanning^(talk) 04:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Picture? Kyo cat^meow! 04:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

*cough* erm, sorry, I'm going to Hell. I think when it comes to seeking medical advice for your cat on the Internet (including Wikipedia), the same applies as to seeking medical advice for yourself. Go to a vet (or doctor). --Sam Blanning^(talk) 04:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Eh heh heh! This conversation is pretty funny! I've already asked all the vets in my town, but they don't understand either. I don't worry for her at all, there's nothing wrong with what she's doing. Guess its natural! But, thanks anyway. Hmm...maybe someday I'll show you a picture of my cat doing that.....ah ha ha! I just wanted to see if anyone knew what was wrong with my cat on this talk page! Heh heh heh....thank you very much! ^__^ Kyo cat^meow! 04:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The only concern I'd have is that the licking may be a remote signe of mastitis, especially if it is novel behavious. But if you've shown your cat to several vets, they would have caught it by now.--Ramdrake 14:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

My cat was seperated from her mother too early and would suck on her own tail, my wife's nose, and any fingers that were going. Could it be something to do with that, maybe? Jaz Mcdougall 01:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum and i doubt this is the right place to ask about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheEditor367 (talk • contribs)

Siamese eyes

File:Snack.JPG

Caption

[[2]]

I don't have time to research it right now, but there is something different about the eyes of a Siamese cat. The picture of the cat with the glowing green eyes reminded me. If you notice, when you take a picture of a Siamese cat they will have "red eye" the same as a human being. See the picture link above. Just a thought for further additions! (Is there a way to make the picture actually show up in the discussion? Obviously, I'm new to contributing to this site!!!)

Pam Stigall 12:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC) P. Stigall

Don't know about the eyes, but you can display pictures using this code: [[Image:Snack.JPG|thumb|Caption]], which displays the picture here. See WP:PIC for more. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 13:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

wow I never noticed that before! must be something to do with the pigment in their eyes. Siamese cats have brown eyes and most other cats have green. Maybe thats got something to do with it? Think outside the box 12:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I have a siamese and she has blue eyes, it is true. I have two cats the burmese has golden eyes at night they go green and my siamese's go red (just like you said).

Purebred siamese cat eyes are blue, and Tonkinese cat eyes (orgianlly a cross between Burmese and Siamese in the 60s) are often an aquamarine. Cat eyes very in color quite a lot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.124.24.102 (talk) 07:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

If the issue is "why do siamese cats have red-eye in photos?" then the answer is that all animals, humans included of course, whose pupils are dilated (i.e., open wide) will have some degree of red eye in photos. The whole point of those "anti red-eye" systems on some cameras, where the flash goes off several times in quick succession before the shot is actually taken, is to cause people's pupils to contract. The red-eye phenomenon itself is caused by the reflection of the light from the flash off the retina (which is on inside-back of the eyeball). Big, open pupils (and all breeds of cats tend to have very large pupils in low light, which is part of what gives them such good night vision, as well as comparitively poor vision in bright light and also mild hyperopia) mean a big open window for light to get into the eyeball and reflect off the retina, causing the eerie red glow. Buck Mulligan 02:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

yes but why then do only siamese cats have red eyes and other cats have green / yellow? Think outside the box 11:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you would think that only Siamese cats are prone to the red-eye phenomenon. I have a tabby and he occasionally get red-eye in photos. So does my friend's calico. Besides which, the physiology of a cat's eyes doesn't vary from breed to breed. Eye color might vary a bit--one breed might be more likely to have blue eyes than another, for instance--but that's iris color, which has nothing to do with the phenonmena of red-eye. It's more a matter of pupil dialation, as I said above, than anything else. Buck Mulligan 13:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but the whole point of this conversation is, and I quote "there is something different about the eyes of a Siamese cat. The picture of the cat with the glowing green eyes reminded me. If you notice, when you take a picture of a Siamese cat they will have "red eye" the same as a human being." Could it be then that Siamese cats dialate their pupils in a different way than most other cats? Think outside the box 11:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

We seem to be talking past each other. I understand that the original question about Siamese eyes asserts that there is something different about them. My question, though, was: Is there really something "different" about the eyes of Siamese cats, versus those of other breeds? There didn't seem to be, to me. Anyway, I decided Googled "siamese cat eye red" and came up with several hits, many of which (http://www.colorpilot.com/redeye_effect.html, for instance) back up your claims. To wit (quoting from the website I just linked to): "Some animals, and a few dog and cat breeds (for instance, blue point siamese cats), have no tapetal pigmentation. These animals show a red reflex as humans." The "tapetal pigmentation" referred to in the quote is pigmentation on a reflective membrane (called the tapetum) at the back of some animals' eyes (behind the retina) which helps them to see better in the dark. Humans do not have this tapetal membrane, which is why our eyes sometimes show up red in photographs. This leaves me in some confusion about my own cat, a tabby as I said somewhere above, whose eyes do indeed sometimes present the red-eye phenomenon in photographs, but I guess that can be explained by the fact that tabbies are more of a mix of breeds than a breed, per se, so who knows what he's got in his genetic background. And so, Think outside the box, it would seem that I was quite wrong!

Incidentally, if somebody wants to insert this interesting factoid into the main article, a good web page to work with is http://dpfwiw.com/red-eye.htm, from which the following long quote is taken:

The consistently red color of the human reflex derives from the red blood pigment hemoglobin. Light from the flash picks up the red from blood vessels encountered during its bounce off the retina, just as reflected sunlight picks up the color of a red sweater.

Why, then, do animal reflexes come in so many other colors and seldom in red? The answer lies in the tapetum lucidum, a highly reflective, variably pigmented membrane backing the retina in animals with good night vision (including dogs, cats and most domestic animals) but entirely absent in humans. The tapetum lies directly behind the retinal photoreceptors. Nova's The Nocturnal Eye nicely illustrates the anatomy.

The tapetum enhances low-light vision by giving retinal photoreceptors a 2^nd crack at any incoming light that manages to escape absorption (detection) on the first pass. In dogs, at least, an additional boost may come from tapetal fluorescence, which shifts incoming wavelengths into better alignment with the peak spectral sensitivities of the photoreceptors. Tapetal pigments surely come into play here.

When tapetal pigment is present, its color dominates the color of a given animal's reflex. Tapetal color loosely follows coat color. For example, black coats and green reflexes tend to go together, as seen in our border collie above. Most dogs and cats show a blue reflex as their eyes mature in the first 6-8 months of life. Pigment-poor animals like blue point Siamese cats with no tapetal pigmentation show a red reflex for the same reason humans do.

So there you have it. Mystery solved--for real, this time. It's been a pleasure working with you guys. Buck Mulligan 12:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Sorry about the confusion Think outside the box 12:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Now if only there wasn't that picture of two dogs on that very page, where in one eye you can see both a red reflection from the pupil and blue tapetum reflection from the rest of the eye — I guess we need to dig deeper. Lars T. 18:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Grooming

i'd like to suggest that someone find a better photo of a cat grooming. The one image in the article is rather poor in that regard, as it doesn't even show the cat's tongue, which is the essence of grooming. no, i'm not lobby to put up a photo of my precious kitty grooming, as i have no such photo. this is strictly in the sense of the photo being appropriate to what it is ostensibly displaying. the current image really gives no sense that the cat is actually grooming. rather, it's just holding its paw near its face. Anastrophe 05:29, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you cheacked http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Felis_silvestris_catus to see if there is something suteble?Geni 17:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is the cat ownership debate?

It is archived here.--Ramdrake 20:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I've archived the recent discussions here, and will prepare a summary of the debate and close the mediation as discussed earlier. Once I've done it, take a look and let me know. TheronJ 14:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

cleanup

There's a large, akward, unsubstantiated run-on in the 'toilet traning' section, so I marked it for clean-up. Make the setence shorter, cite the facts, etc. Freezing the mainstream

Cats without claws put down

"In Britain, animal shelters find it difficult to place imported cats that have been declawed and subsequently most are euthanized."

First I've heard of this. Citation needed. Few cats in UK are put down who are not ill or behaviourally impaired. This from talking to Cambridge branch of Wood Green Shelter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sambda (talk • contribs) 20:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Not altogether impossible, as I've heard that on this side of the Atlantic (North America), cats put in shelters that are NOT declawed are more difficult to place in new homes, and clawing furniture is unfortunately accepted in many clinics as a reason for euthanasia if the cat is too old to undergo onychectomy (over 2 years is usually considered a maximum).--Ramdrake 20:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added citation needed as I also have never heard of this occurring, nor did a quick scout of Google turn up anything supporting the statement. And also since North America and the UK/rest of the world clearly have very different opinions on this subject I don't think it's necessarily applicable to use one as an example of the other. TygerTyger 13:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Cats in pop culture

Should it be mentioned that cats are frequently given negative images in popular culture? Name a movie that doesn't have evil cats or cats being mistreated. Quentin54 16:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)¸

I seem to remember a number of Disney movies that presented cats in a rather fair way.--Ramdrake 23:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The Cat Returns? --Sam Blanning^(talk) 19:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Aristocats is an example of a movie where cats are not "evil" puppy441 - (lvl 80)^On_RS 14:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

they're nearly always evil or mistreated!!!!!!

That Darn Cat! and remake, Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey and sequel, The Adventures of Milo and Otis, Garfield and Garfield: A Tale of Two Kitties, Gay Purr-ee, to name a few. Hoof Hearted 17:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Summarizing and closing "Owner/Caregiver" mediation

Although the parties have not agreed, the discussion seems to be winding up. As I discussed earlier, I am preparing this summary of the debate, and will then close the mediation unless anyone thinks that additional mediation would be helpful.

Positions: Basically, there are two positions:

• Caregiver: Two editors (User:Olivierd and User:Katzenjammer) strongly believe that the term "owner" should not be used for humans who live with domestic cats, and prefer instead terms like "caregiver" or "human companion" in all cases where "owner" is not being used as a literal legal term. Generally, the pro-caregiver editors argue that (1) broad use of the term "owner" is offensive to some readers and (2) since some people dispute the accuracy of "owner" and no one disputes the literal accuracy of "caregiver", "caregiver" should be preferred.

• Owner: Several editors (including User:Ramdrake, User:Nique1287, User:RWR8189 and User:Dionyseus) argue that because "owner" is the most commonly used term and legally accurate, it should be the primary term used in the article. They also argue that a solid majority of editors who have opined to date support owner. At least some of the "pro-owner editors" argue that "caregiver" is less accurate than "owner," because some owners do not give adequate care to their cats.

Compromise offers and attempts at dispute resolution:

• Ramdrake has proposed replacing some of the usages of "owner" with "human companion," but leaving most of the "owners" intact. He also inserted a footnote in the main article discussing the controversy over the term "owner."[3]

• A request for comment produced several comments. (All commenters other than Olivierd and Katzenjammer supported "owner").

• This cabal mediation occurred, but was ultimately unable to resolve the dispute.

Current status:

• At this time, the main parties continue to disagree. Olivierd and Katzenjammer are not edit warring, and intend to raise the issue again when appropriate in an attempt to develop a consensus supporting their position. (See generally consensus can change).
• Because further discussion is unlikely to be helpful at this time, I will close the mediation.
• If I can make a (absolutely non-mandatory) suggestion, I encourage Olivierd and Katzenjammer to develop a sourced page on issues relating to the use of "owner" versus "human companion" or "caregiver" for domestic animals. I recognize that such a page wouldn't directly resolve this dispute, but it might inform any future debates, and might be appropriately linked from this page to present the "pro-caregiver" viewpoint in more detail.

If I left anything out or misrepresented anything, please let me know and I will adjust the summary appropriately. Thanks, everyone, for your participation, and I apologize that we weren't able to find a resolution. TheronJ 14:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Updated. TheronJ 15:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

cat pupils

Why are cat's pupils vertical? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.59.178.86 (talk • contribs).

This talk page is to discuss the article. For questions about cats in general, please see the reference desk. Thanks, Dar-Ape 18:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't know the exact details, but supposedly that allows for a greater range between closed and open, so that cats can see when it's dark because their pupils open very wide, but with the pupils fully closed won't be blinded in the daylight. Gzuckier 21:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Completed object on todo

I have completed correcting the inaccuracies in the Perching and falling section as per the todo list. I am a bit new to Wikipedia so could someone please clue me in on how to remove something from the todo list? Cheers Bennyboyz3000 13:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Aha! I have spotted those tiny links that were hiding from me on the to-do list. Bennyboyz3000 13:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Do cats have a homing instinct?

I have heard it widely said that a cat, taken many miles from its home and released, can find its way home. Unless I overlooked something, the article does not comment on this. It should. Jm546 01:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

That kind of story has cropped up several times, and is verifiable. However, it is very anecdotic (instances are rare), so talking about the cat's homing instinct may be a stretch, or be seen as giving undue weight to a few anecdotic stories. It would be like saying that since some cats have survived falling from a ten-story buildings, they generally are able to survive these kinds of falls. I so wish, but no... However, if you see a scientific study on the subject and you can reference it, please be my guest and include it. Personnally, I haven't.--Ramdrake 01:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a myth. Indoor cats who run away generally stay within 2 blocks of their home but they're unable to remember which home they live in. Because of this fact, it is very helpful if the owner goes outside and calls out for his/her cat repeatedly as soon as he/she becomes aware that the cat is missing. It is also very helpful to place a shirt with your scent on it on the porch, other items that are helpful is its food bowl (make sure you don't accidently clean off the scent), and whatever fabric the cat has slept on recently, these items that are easily recognizable for the cat helps it figure out where it lives. If your calls are unanswered during the day, try at night as well, in fact it is more likely that your cat will approach you during the night because the outdoors during the day in the city/suburbans can be frightening for an indoor cat. Dionyseus 02:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Cats and foil

We recently put some metal foil around the base of some furniture that all five of our cats were clawing, and they haven't touched it. It's kinda weird, and one of my cats got my attention, led me to the furniture, and whacked the foil, then looked at me and chirped, expecting me to move the foil. Should this behavior be noted somewhere? ToaRabin 00:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

That's quite interesting, but we cannot allow your testimonial in Wikipedia because it is original research. However, If you find an article by a reliable source that talks about this behavior, you can cite that source. Dionyseus 02:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading about how cats don't like he feel of foil and won't walk on it, but i don't remember where Pyrofan1 00:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I've read about it from a few books. Cats tend not to approach aluminium foil balls or orange peels, and thus they can be used to avoid unwanted "marking" of furniture. Usually this will just cause the cat to find other objects to pee on, and when there's a forever increasing amount of foil and orange peels around the cat might feel stressed, so it isn't a very smart way of protection.62.183.205.213 14:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Felis silvestris lybica x Felis silvestris europaea

The iberian Felis silvestris europaea are having more and more breeding with domestic cat. This descent are more big that domestic cat and sometimes domesticated. Both cats are very similar and I thing that african cats can not the origin mostly. The australian feral cats resembling mostly to Felis silvestris europaea.212.97.181.220 16:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay... but what has this to do with the article about just the domestic cat? Nique1287 16:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The article say: The trinomial name of the domestic cat is Felis silvestris catus. Its closest pre-domesticated ancestor is believed to be the African wild cat, Felis silvestris lybica.[1] Humans have... There are genetic studies about? Anselmocisneros 11:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Amended Recent DNA and comparative bone research shows that the separate species name F. catus is correct after all. The results show little relation to the F. sylvestris group. F. catus is derived from F. chaus, F. margarita and F. lybica 7000 years ago when the very first small felines were domesticated in Asia Minor. There is no firm evidence for F chaus or F margarita. The former is based on the presence of F chaus bones in Egypt. The latter is supposition.Messybeast 11:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Made minor changes to the article in line with this, until the info is properly recognized by the appropriate governing body. Shrumster 06:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

Vandalized version recently corrected. TheListUpdater 19:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

First item in the table of contents

The first item in the table of contents is irrelevant and inappropriate, and as such should be removed.

Nomenclature? Why is it irrelevant and inappropriate? --Sam Blanning^(talk) 04:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Moved it to a more appropriate place as a subsection of one of the newly-created sections. Shrumster 06:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Cat picture

The previous main cat picture was ugly and wild... I changed the picture to a more attractive, domestic cat. --Candy-Panda 08:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Just as an aside, it's been a general rule of thumb for editors of Cat to discuss changes or additions to the images on the page itself for some time, because of the sheer volume of pictures there, just so you know in the future. As for the picture itself, the one you changed it to does not show the whole cat, and only the head is in focus. It is also fairly shadowed, and thus not as clear as the picture you replaced. As such, I think we should stick to the older picture. Nique1287 12:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

cats

They a known enviromental hazard , a common house cat averages 500 kills a year when they are let outside . the kills include birds , rabbits , snakes , squirls , ect.. not just mice . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.77.247.14 (talk)

And what has this to do with the article? If you're suggesting that the information be added to the article, please find a reputable source for it and state that you wish it to be added. The talk page is for discussion of changes to the article, not a forum for discussion. Nique1287 18:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

So what? Cats are carnivorous, just like many other animals. The animals you mentioned aren't endangered, and are even pests in some countries. If you're going to mention cats killing animals at least mention ones that are endangered or threatened. --Candy-Panda 02:32, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

500 kills a year? I think thats a bit too high, only skilled cats get that amount. House cats lack the skill to kill properly and are usually too noisy (especally with a bell) to get anything. When they do kill it's because the animal was weak and easy to catch. Its still not nice, concidering they gat fed and they dont have to kill to survive, but its instinct. Think outside the box 12:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Like the introduction of other alien species (eg, rats, pigs, etc) cats new to an ecology (eg, an island) are a serious predatory danger to species which aren't acclimated to them. This has happened several times in Pacific islands, and pigs, likely those traveling with the DeSoto expedition, are also thought to have been the vector for introducing many Old World disease into the North American Indian populations. Anne Ramenofsky, U N Mexico; Patricia Galloway, U of Texas; T K Perttula, archeological consultant Austin Texas, note that the Caddo and Coosa cultures in the SE N America ceased building / maintenance just after the DeSoto expedition passed through and suggest that pigs introduced Old World zoonotic disease to the New World human population, reducing it perhaps 90% in a generation or two, before the next European expedition came through the area. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.124.24.102 (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

radar

Hello are cats sensitive to radar because I live near a base any help would be appreciated urgent thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.17.105 (talk • contribs)

As far as I know cats are incapable of detecting radar transmissions. According to a scientific study, the hearing range of cats ranges from 45 hertz to 64 kilahertz, whereas radar waves range from 3 megaherts to 110 gigahertz. Dionyseus 01:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Electromagnetic (in this case, radar) and mechanical waves (in this case, sound) are completely different things. Comparing frequencies of the two phenomena is completely pointless. 71.197.86.137 06:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree, you can't compare the two wave forms. Radar is like radiation; you can't hear it but it might affect the cat's balance and coordination. Ask a vet to be sure. Think outside the box 12:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

What type of cat is this

http:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Cat_outside.jpg What type of cat is that?

Looks like a standard domestic short-haired silver tabby to me.--Ramdrake 21:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I would say brown tabby myself. howcheng {chat} 22:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely not silver, here's what a silver tabby looks like. It is a domestic short-haired brown mackerel tabby with a white base, mines the same but with a brownish grey base instead of white. Dionyseus 23:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks kinda silver, but personaly I'd just say it was a tabby. Think outside the box 12:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I think its a tabby. NO! it looks so much like an ocicat. Its got black spots on its back and its got greeny-yellow eyes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.138.248.52 (talk • contribs)

looks like a silver tabby to me.its sooooooooo cute!!!!!!!!!!!!(major cat lover!!!!!!!!!!!) Lover of the sand 13:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Weasel Words

Contrary to popular belief, cats without a tail also have this ability, since a cat mostly moves its hindlegs and relies on conservation of angular momentum to set up for landing, and the tail is in fact little used for this feat. —Soliloquial 03:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Unrelated

I have a siamese mix. She was declawed, spayed and had all her shots in one day. She scratches the floor by her food and water as she would her litter box. She uses her litter box (most of the time) but does not cover up her business. She has found two areas in our family room where she likes to urinate. I have carried her to her litter box and scratched the litter with her paws then set her in it. She will use it once a day and usually not to urinate in.

Two years before we recieved this cat we had two others who had the same medical procedures done by the same veterinarian. They both had the same behavior as our current cat. The scratching on the floor and the miss use of the litter box.

There seems to be a connection with the declawing and their mental functioning. There was a two year time span between cats.

The first concern is how to retrain our cat to use her litter box and not the family room carpeting. Any suggestions? Also, Have you heard of any relation between declawing and mental functioning. Karen and Sassy12.77.94.95 01:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no relationship whatsoever. You should look at other causes of this behavior. It may be as simple as litterbox cleanliness issues.--Ramdrake 23:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

• Declawing your cat can seriously affect him/her mentally, as well as physically (see this site [4], and scroll down to "Psychological & Behavioral Complications") the result often ends up in a severely maladjusted cat. Your cat doesn't want to use her litterbox because her paws still hurt (imagine if you got the last joints of your fingers amputated, then you had you scratch the kitty litter with your raw stubs, thats pretty much how it feels like for your cat) Your cat probably associates the pain with the litterbox, and this could litterbox fear could end up being permanent. I'm sorry you value your furniture more than your feline friend, but please don't declaw your future cats, it's an inhumane act which is why it is illegal pretty much everywhere except the USA and Canada. --Candy-Panda 03:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

What type of cat is this?

i would like to show an image but i dont know how to! but she has cream coloured fur, golden eyes and looks like a tonkinese or a burmese. if you know how to put images on this page pleasetell me how to lucy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.138.248.52 (talk) 17:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

Fact Check Request

The Nomenclature section is suspicious. It said the latin word for cat is cattus, when it is really felis. Someone should check the source. --Savant13 22:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I also have doubts about the scientific name section. I was under the impression that it was Felis domesticus --Savant13 14:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Fixed the entire section in line with ICZN rules. Shrumster 06:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pussy?

Why is the term Pussy inculded in the beginning of the article? 71.135.46.201 00:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pussycat, and its shortened form puss, is a common endearment for a cat. So is 'pussy', although that exact word isn't actually mentioned in the article. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 03:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Article reorganization

I reorganized the article for it to be more in-line with treating the cat as an actual biological organism rather than just a pet. Shrumster 06:16, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

New picture?

The current picture of a cat doesn't show the cat's tail. Can we get a picture that shows the whole cat, including tail? --Candy-Panda 03:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I like the current picture :) even thought it doesn't show the cats tail. Also, not all cats have tails; wouldn't the other cats feel jealous? Think outside the box 11:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

check featured status in other languages

Hi! As I can not edit cat, I ask you to do that: The article lost featured status in some languages including German, French and Spanish. Could someone delete the stars? Thanks from Germany --80.133.162.202 11:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Done by Lars T. Cat is still a featured article on esWiki. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 18:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Bit about kidney failure removed from the section about skin

I removed this bit about kidney failure in cats, which should go back in somewhere. It was embedded in a section about the cat's skin (obviously not the right place), but I'm not sure where to reinsert it. Mayeb somebody has an idea?--Ramdrake 13:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

In fact, the life of cats with kidney failure can sometimes be extended for years by the regular injection of large volumes of fluid subcutaneously, which serves as an alternative to dialysis. Ramdrake

Social behavior pic

A cat seems to be happy at home.

Waht about adding this pic to the social behavior section. It's been removed. --– Emperor Walter Humala · ^{( talk? · help! )} 21:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Although it's a good picture, it's just a picture of a cat, and in an article with many high-quality images a new image either needs to illustrate something new or illustrate it better. This one doesn't seem to illustrate anything, certainly not what the caption claims it does. Although it looks like it's smiling, that's just anthropomorphism. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 18:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Invasive species?

Cats are listed under the category for invasive species. Is there a valid reason? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 03:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess because they have been brought into different habitats than they would normaly have been in by humans. As people feed them, the population has rapidly outgrown what the enviroment would naturally have supported. With that many cats around other animals are going to be affected, either because the cats take up their territory or eat them. But the cat itself is not normaly an invasive species. Think outside the box 11:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

But then by that definition, all domesticated animals can be considered invasive. The cows that farmers raise eat the grass that was naturally there for some other animals grazing, etc. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Think outside the box doesn't have it exactly right. The more relevant point about cats being potentially invasive is not that humans feed them, but that they tend to run away from home and breed like crazy, meanwhile engaging in large-scale predation and potentially endangering the existence of local species, which would be unfamiliar with the new predator. In other words, the cats feed themselves quite expertly--just as they do in the alleyways of most cities--and don't require anything in the way of human intervention other than the original transportation. Even in places where basically nobody lives, like many of the islands of the Seychelles, cats left behind by people attempting to establish settlements have driven several local species to the brink of extinction. (By the way, you won't find that bit of info in the article about the Seychelles, and I'm not planning to add it. I just happened to hear some scientist talking about it on the radio the other day. As such, it would take more time to reference it than I currently have at my disposal.) I guess the obvious difference between cats and cows is that cats hunt and eat other animals, while cows just eat grass. But also relevant is the fact that cats can breed much more quickly than larger species of mammals, such as cows. So if you combine the fact that cats are predators that can produce offspring numbering in the teens each year (and by the end of the year, the first litter will be producing offspring of its own) with the fact that you can leave cats to their own devices in most places and they'll get along fine without human help, you wind up with something that has the potential to seriously disrupt the local environment. On the other hand, if you dump a small herd of cattle in a grassy area and leave them alone, they'll breed very slowly (and also, like all ruminants, reach sexual maturity relatively slowly) and at the same time be subject to the same predators that prey on other local ruminants--which doesn't seem like an environmental catastrophe in the making so much as a temporary bonanza for the local big carnivores. At any rate, it's true that cats aren't normally an invasive species, but this is mainly because there's hardly anyplace left on earth that can support animal life where they don't already live. Buck Mulligan 19:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

While that makes complete sense, to me, the category implies something more like Africanized honey bees, but a potential invasive animal category would violate WP:CRYSTAL. Nontheless, it's a satisfactory answer. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I just flagged the statement about how cats are supposedly causing environmental concerns in Florida. It might be true, but a source for it would be good. Apart from that, I'm not seeing anything in the cat article itself that looks objectionable. As for the "invasive species" categorization, if you have a look at the list of invasive species you'll find that it's extremely inclusive, while at the same time remaining specific about which regions of the world have had problems with which species of animals (and plants). As such, I don't think we need to worry about people who actually bother to click on the link thinking that cats should necessarily be thought of in the same light as Africanized bees. Buck Mulligan 12:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Feral cats and native species destruction in Australia

I could not believe reading this article that reads "Those opposing this view stress this allegation has never been proved. They say that damaging effects do not follow necessarily from the fact that cats are predators. They point out that cats have played a useful role in vermin control for centuries, and that for many animals, especially in urban areas, cats are the only animal available to fill the vital role of predator. Without cats these species would overpopulate" without any citation. This completely flies in the face of Published Scientific Research, within Australia on the impact of feral cats on marsupials, lizards, snakes, birds and insects. Huge Government efforts have gone into eradication of feral cats and a lot of councils in Australia now have stringent controls over domestic cats. If you don't believe me then read these:

• [[5]]
• [[6]]
• [[7]]
• [[8]]
• [[9]]
• [[10]]
• [[11]]
• [[12]]
• [[13]]
• [[14]]
• [[15]]
• [[16]]
• [[17]]

petedavo 14:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - to quote the NT Govt website - "Feral cats are a serious treat to biodiversity conservation in Australia. Predation by feral cats is appropriately listed as a key threatening process under the Commonwealth Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999." Orderinchaos 16:42, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is about cats, not feral cats - look at the article Feral cat#Australia for that. Lars T. 17:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

This article may be about cats in general, but it has a section on feral cats, and that section contains a paragraph which these users are complaining about. At the very least it is a case of weasel words and may not be NPOV. Part of the problem is that it is not clear at all what the subject of that section is - it speaks about outdoor domestic cats and feral cats almost interchangeably. It is not even clear which view the arguments given in the paragraph are opposing. JPD (talk) 16:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

How about exchanging Florida for Australia, the fact tag could be dropped and the scope of the article would be broadened. I am very fond of cats, but in the australian bush they are very destructive, perhaps as much as our species. Fred 04:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Scientific name

According to ITIS (the Integrated Taxonomic Information System) Felis catus is invalid junior synonym and the correct scientific name is Felis silvestris. Find a reference that says F. catus is correct and then we'll talk. Otherwise, I'm putting it back. howcheng {chat} 20:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I just read that portion in the article. A conclusion being drawn here, based on an uncited statement ("Recent DNA and comparative bone research shows that the separate species name F. catus is correct after all"), which IMHO counts as original research. Until some authority declares that F. catus is the scientific name, F. silvestris is what we should go with. howcheng {chat} 20:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

ITIS is using old sources. MSW3 (2005) states that F. catus is correct. - UtherSRG (talk) 21:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine, so how can I verify your information? The only cited statement in that section is the Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature. howcheng {chat} 21:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Amusing cat links

In case people find them interesting - photos and comments at [[18]] and the kitten wars site at [[19]]. Jackiespeel 17:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Pregnancy

I've heard that cats can't get pregnant when the temperature drops below a certain point(cold). Anyone know if it;s true or not? Many cats around here didn't get pregnant until a warm spell, a month or so ago. Just a coincidence? Joe I 21:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Suggesting More Information

In your article on cats, there is no information that I have found that relates to cats' reactions to certain events and objects. When researching, I could not find anything that would help me understand my grandmother's cat, Jr's moods. If you can help me and add this when you get the chance, I would be thankful. --207.69.138.137 20:24, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Cat With Blue Eyes

What other type of cat has blue eyes besides the Siamese Cat? Because I saw this video of a moody gray and white cat with blue eyes, so I was thinking there could be more cat breeds that has the cat with blue eyes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.16.151.77 (talk) 13:45, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Most cat breeds (except those that forbid it explicitly) can have individuals with blue eyes. In cats, blue eyes is a not-uncommon form of albinism. White cats are especially prone to having blue eyes. --Ramdrake 14:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)