Talk:Swimming pool

May need to revert wording in 'Transmission of diseases' section

I noticed this paragraph in 'Transmission of diseases in swimming pools' section:

"Swimming pool and spas water can become contaminated by germs from swimmers or incoming water from unsafe water supplies. Contaminated recreational water can cause a variety of diseases such as AIDS and skin, ear, and upper respiratory infections, particularly if the swimmer's head is submerged."

I notice much earlier versions had 'diarrhoea' rather than 'AIDS', which seems much more likely to me. Didn't want to revert without checking here first. Mebirdo 13:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Searching for "aids" redirects here. Does anyone know how to change that? It's almost definetly a 4chan reference, btw.

thats correct you cant transmit HIV by water, only bodily fluid to bodily fluid.sailor iain 16:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Go for it Tarquin

we should mention seawater swimming pools too -- Tarquin

- that's the idea of a Wiki. If you think the info should be in there, then add it. Other people can polish it later if they think it can be improved.But start with what you want to add.

Notice about competition swimming pools

In the article, near the end, there is a claim: "Competition pools have to be indoors to comply with the regulations regarding temperature, lighting and to protect the needed Automatic Officiating Equipment."

The 2004 Athens games had an outdoor pool for the competition, no?

Just wondering about the validity of this statement...

Athens had both indoor and outdoor pools, as well as a dedicated diving pool. I couldn't find any rule on FINA's web site that required a pool to be indoors, as long as it met various standards for lighting, temperature, &c. I'm going to remove this statement unless we find a governing body that requires indoor pools, and then it can be put back with qualification (e.g., "pools for underwater tennis competition must be indoors"). —Michael Shields 19:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I suspect the use of outdoor pools is allowed provided the other criteria are met (temperature, illumination etc.). There is probably some requirement to avoid wind and rain above the waters surface (since both will affect performance and water temperature)195.92.168.167 13:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

History?

Anyone know anything about the history of swimming pools? I'm sure they go back as far as man has been building things... -- BD2412 ^talk 01:56, 2005 Jun 7 (UTC)

Well, the YMCA claims to have invented them. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 06:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Saltwater pool questions

Hi, never heard of a salt water pool till this weekend, when I saw one. My kids really liked it because it was heated and it didn't hurt their eyes. Seemed really nice. When I heard "salt water" I thought, "Ocean Water". NOT. It is swimming in saline solution. Why aren't more pools like this? What is the cost difference?

Well most salt water pools are actually filled with ocean water, and located by the beach. These kinds of salt water pools are usually refilled every night with fresh ocean water. And the cost difference is much more expensive then fresh water, and usually not found in private homes. The saline is much more expensive. Mac Domhnaill 04:49, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Salt water pools are really just the same type of swimming pool as any other. The difference lies within the disinfection system itself. The main concern here is cost as with all pools. Public pools do not have any considerable budgets to work with, and the same holds true for other public pools. This system can be VERY expensive up front compared to an erosion feeder which isn't much more technical than a bucket. However the cost can be made up in the chemical costs. You are essentially purchasing salt which is dirt cheap. What happens is essentially Salt (NaCl), sodium chloride, is added in large quantities to the pool. As the water goes through the filtration process, there is a generator pack- its like the size of a shoe box, and its job is to zap the "salt water" with electricity. This breaks the sodium from the chlorine and allows the chlorine to be available for disinfecting. Hope this helped you!

millionmice- the above is true, but incomplete. When the Cl- is converted to hyperchlorite you are left with an Na+ which is basic, and must be neutralised. So salt pools sanitise by converting acid and electricity into sodium hyperchlorite and chloric acid. Thus, it is cheaper to sanitise with liquid sodium hyperchlorite, and if you are using an automatic feeder, this is also more convenient than having to add salt everytime you lose water.

According to Swimming_pool#Pool_water_disinfection, it says:

Chlorine may be generated on site, such as in saltwater pools. This type of system generates chlorine by electrolysis of dissolved salt (NaCl) using an electrical cell in the pool plumbing, instead of manually dosing the pool with chlorinating chemicals. Chlorine generators avoid the need for constant handling of sanitizing chemicals, and can generate sanitizing power at a lower cost than the equivalent chemicals, but they have a large up-front cost for the apparatus and for the initial loading of the pool with salt. The salt content gives the pool water a brackish taste, but not as salty as seawater. pool water that splashes and evaporates, such as on a pool deck, leaves a salt residue. Being closer to isotonic salinity than fresh water, saltwater pools have an easier feel on the eyes, and a touch typically characterized as "silky", not unlike bath salts.

I always thought that chlorine wasn't involved in 'salt' swimming pools - and I have very sensetive, dry eyes.

Can anybody comment on how good or bad this water is on the eyes? How does it compare to normal chlorinated water and how does it compare to seawater?

Rfwoolf 04:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Early salt water pools had 2% saline in solution, the ocean (I recall) is 12% to 20% (12,000ppm to 20,000ppm) - depending where you are in the world. Most modern saline generators will work with .2 to .4ppm (20ppm to 40ppm) so you can't detect its presence. The only difference between "normal chlorinated water" and pools chlorinated by the production of chlorine in the pool is ... um ... none! The only thing I think is revelant is that for every gallon of chlorine created "in pool" you also get a gallon of Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic Soda) which has a pH of 14 - which must be reduced by the addition of hydrochloric acid or sodium bisulphate, or the chlorine will fail to disinfect the pool once the pH rises over 8.0 The pH of your eyes is 6.5 so swimming in water with that pH level should not have any noticable effect on your eyes, and although chlorine works best at that pH level, it is gaseous, and just quickly bubbles out of the pool. At a pH of 7.6 there is a balance of OCL and HOCl which is a compromise, but you get a 50% - 50% deal with the chlorine that is acceptable. Indentally, OCL is capable of pool water sterilisation, but only when the levels reach 25,000ppm - in other words, unrealistic!
[[Kiwilarry 05:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)]]

AfD discussion for Wading pools

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Wading_pool  (aeropagitica)  22:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Pools heights

I came to this page looking for information about why a swimming pool has a shallow end and a deep end, but no luck. If anyone can help me it will be appreciated. Nzgabriel 09:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

For safe diving from the poolside (often done recreationally) or blocks (as used in most racing swimming) into the water a reasonable depth of water (the notices in most pools here seem to generally say no diving in areas shallower than 1.5m) is required. making the whole pool that depth would however exclude those who are too inexperianced/infirm/whatever to actually swim or float from being in the water at all (or at least from being in the water without flotation devices) and would also make the pool more expensive to build and run.

at least thats my guess as to the reasoning but i don't know for sure how and when the convention of doing it came about. Plugwash 02:12, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

As a residential pool builder, I would like to add my comment: The Meneely diving accident case in NY (1993 - 2001) caused a number of pool builders to abandon 8' 6" (2.75m) diving pools with diving boards - reverting to 6' 6" (1.92m) pools with no boards. The traditional pool I built from 1965 to 2002 was 3' 6" sloping down to 6' 6", but in 2002 I was asked why we did it this way, as the kids couldn't play ball games in the pool - someone was always disadvantaged by being in the "deep end". We were asked to form a deep central area 6' 6" with a slope from all sides and ends. This has proven to be very popular, and now 95% of our pools are constructed this way. We abandoned diving boards in 2002.
[[Kiwilarry 05:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)]]

DPD vs OTO

from the article "These reagents are typically OTO for chlorine and phenol red for pH.".

As far as I know DPD1 and DPD3 are the more common reagents used for free and total chlorine. Anyone know better?

--195.229.242.86 18:15, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

OTO Orthotoledene proved to cause cancerous tumors in trials on rats, and has been abandoned as a test reagent in most Western countries, being replaced (as noted above) by DPD
[[Kiwilarry 05:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)]]

Restructure and minor fixes

There is no mention of DPD in the article. DPD is only a fraction more expensive than OTO and yeilds far more accurate results. Some parts of the article are far too blocky and need to be broken up (Transmission of diseases in swimming pools for example). There are few citations of the source of the material. The chemical explanation is confusing and some sections are arguably inaccurate. Pool cleaners and other physical sanitation methods are not mentioned.

I'd like to do a full restructure with citations(but still keeping all the data currently here). Any objections?

No objections from me. I've mostly been watching this article for commercial links, and haven't read it properly in a while. Graham87 10:21, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ancient Swimming Pools

I am assuming that the Romans and Greeks didn't use chlorinated water in their swimming pools. How did they keep them from getting all green and scummy? (DrZarkov 02:33, 21 September 2006 (UTC))

IIRC a lot of bigger more famous roman baths were actually built on hot springs which presumablly provided a continuous supply of hot clean water. I don't know about the smaller bathhouses but i suspect the water was just replaced enough by one means or another to stop it getting a chance to go scummy. Plugwash 02:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe they used copper pipes to pipe in the water. Copper is a natural bacteriostat. They also used copper, silver, and gold plates and cutlery, all of which display similar anti-bacterial properties. The use of solid silver cutlery has continued through the ages, and is popular today (amongst those who can afford it!)
[[Kiwilarry 05:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)]]

Private Pools and Other Pools

I believe there is some information in the above sections that needs to be edited. However, I'm not an authority on the subject, and not well informed on Wikipedia policy, so can anyone comment on the following?

Under the section Private Pools, it is mentioned that swimming pools in warmer areas are increasingly common in gardens. (Assuming that the British English definition of garden is being used here) since the locations mentioned are in the U.S., shouldn't the word 'yard' be used?

What is the reference for the fact that 'demountable' private pools are unstable and can collapse?

There are mentions of Home pools under 'Other Pools', shouldn't these be part of the Private Pools?

There is an implication that permanently built-in pools are all in-ground, and that above-ground pools are all disassemblable. In the area I live in (Upper Midwest U.S.), permanent above-ground pools seem to be much more common than in-ground pools in yards. The pools I'm talking about are non-permanent only in the sense that they don't last as long as the in-ground pools, and can be disassembled only in the sense that a deck or gazebo can be disassembled. The only pools I know that can be disassembled are the plastic ones that can be filled with air, but perhaps there are other kinds.

Regarding wading pools, is it really true that all wading pools must be filled and drained daily? Could it be possible that at least some public wading pools can have a filtration system, or is that mechanically impossible?

Finally, what is the significance of the fact that wading pools are painted blue in Canada? Is this a national law, or is it just a convention similar to the fact that many public pools in the U.S. are painted turquoise, aqua and other shades of blue and green?

Neilmsheldon 19:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Why no board shorts?

the article says that boardshorts are not allowed in france for hygenic reasons? what reasons are there not to wear boardshorts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.249.53.58 (talk) 00:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

one reason i can think of is that swim shorts blur the line between swimwear and leisure wear, i wonder if its really less about hygine and more about contamination with things like beach sand and seawater. Plugwash 02:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe its because your not suppose to wear clothes that have been used before swimming. Ie wearing board shorts all day long, maybe using the bus and then swimming, will increase the rise of contamination. I also read once a comment about costumes with clothing that has folds allows bacteria to grow and so thats why they prefer speedos and trunks.sailor iain 16:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

"Salt" swimming pools?

According to Swimming_pool#Pool_water_disinfection, it says:

Chlorine may be generated on site, such as in saltwater pools. This type of system generates chlorine by electrolysis of dissolved salt (NaCl) using an electrical cell in the pool plumbing, instead of manually dosing the pool with chlorinating chemicals. Chlorine generators avoid the need for constant handling of sanitizing chemicals, and can generate sanitizing power at a lower cost than the equivalent chemicals, but they have a large up-front cost for the apparatus and for the initial loading of the pool with salt. The salt content gives the pool water a brackish taste, but not as salty as seawater. pool water that splashes and evaporates, such as on a pool deck, leaves a salt residue. Being closer to isotonic salinity than fresh water, saltwater pools have an easier feel on the eyes, and a touch typically characterized as "silky", not unlike bath salts.

I always thought that chlorine wasn't involved in 'salt' swimming pools - and I have very sensetive, dry eyes.
Can anybody comment on how good or bad this water is on the eyes? How does it compare to normal chlorinated water and how does it compare to seawater?
Rfwoolf 04:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

For information on this, please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_pool http://danspapers.com/paper/interior9.html In summary, saltwater pools do use salt to create chlorine which sanitizes the water. Interestingly though, some people report fewer allergic reactions to saltwater pools than to "normal" chlorine pools. There are also reports of no eye stinging or chlorine smells as occurs in "normal" chlorine pools. It's also worth pointing out that UV and ozone treated pools are often not chlorine-free though they have much lower chlorine levels than your average chlorinated pool. Shedsan 18:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links

Re: http://www.homehelp4u.net/tipsandplanning/in_ground_swimming_pool.php, posted: 13:40, 16 March 2007 by Sander Snel. Is this a commercial link? Shedsan 18:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and I've been removing it as it's been added - it must have slipped past my radar this time. Graham87 01:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My edits

Amongst the other fixes I mentioned to this article in my edit summaries, I also removed the routine for going to pools in Iceland from the dress code section. That can easily be checked on the website provided as a reference. Graham87 10:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

What does ORP Stand For ?

Under the heading "Pool water disinfection" there is more than one reference to ORP, but I am confused as to what it stands for there is no explanation, can someone please write its definition in between parentheses or something ? thx Thebutterfly 09:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)TheButterfly

Oxygen Reduction Potential - the measure of oxidisation possible through the presence of chlorine in the pool. It's measured as an electrical resistance, and is more accurate than " 2.0 ppm" (parts per million) that most test kits give. Around 654mv is normal, I believe.
[[Kiwilarry 05:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)]]

Nothing on Pool Houses?

After a very random conversation with a friend of mine, I decided to look up "pool house" because I had heard the term before but wasn't exactly sure of what they were specifically for (and I was procrastinating on work I should've been doing). Surprisingly, the most closely related search result I got was a page kept for historical purposes that dicussed the deletion of an article called "Pool Party House" due to it having a low notability factor and small google results and few links to it. Now, I wasn't extremely interested in the subject to begin with, but in my google search the term "Pool House" at least has 838,000 results, including a link to a magazine specifically selling them. I'm still not totally sure of what they are (i skimmed the magazine site as it was the top result), and maybe they are different from whatever "Pool Party Houses" were, but regardless it seems like the topic would probably be included at least on this page. I'm not dying to know what they are, but Wikipedia not having even an article stub on them has now made me a lot more interested, and surely somebody knows enough to start something on them?
Oh, and if there actually is an article on wikipedia about what they are, and I just have the completely wrong name but someone can figure out what I'm talking about, I apologize for the wordy confusion (and please direct me to the page)! Thank you. Irish♣Pearl 00:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Check "Swimming Pools" now ...The section on pool filtration: other equipment
Quote: Most swimming pool installations incorporate an outdoor structure ....... up to a full-size Pool House (AKA "Pool Shed") with separate pool equipment area, bathroom, shower, changing areas, and in some cases even a rumpus-room type entertainment area. As pool-side parties are common amongst pool owning families, the Pool House forms the focal point for adult attendees, while the pool itself remains the realm of the children
Kiwilarry 02:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Fleischacker Pool

How about some mention of Fleischacker Pool in San Francisco? As I recall it was built in the 1930's and billed as the largest salt water pool in the world being 1000 feet long and 100 feet wide with a rowboat for lifeguards because the pool was too big to cover from the sides. I believe the pool was filled in around 1970 and the area is now part of the San Francisco Zoo. (The city apparently couldn't afford to keep the pool going -- the salt water was very corrosive and the location, near the ocean in S.F., meant very few warm sunny days so patronage was light.) I'm not sure of the details and, unfortunately, wasn't successful in Googling for them. My main recollection of the pool is swimming from one end to other in the mid-1960's.

69.111.121.9 00:09, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

You have misspelt it. I'd just done some googling and this forum post lead me to the correct spelling with two h's. We have articles about the Fleishhacker Pool and Herbert Fleishhacker. I think they should somehow be incorporated into this article. Graham87 02:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)