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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jasper Deng (talk | contribs) at 01:58, 25 October 2024 (→Does being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane establish notability?: typo). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


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Tropical Cyclones

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Tropical cyclones portal

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WikiProject Weather (talk)

Project notes

I just created this wikiproject, after several months of contemplating doing so. I hope everyone working on hurricane articles will get involved. I went ahead and wrote a bunch of guidelines, basically based on current practices...naturally since this is something I just wrote it doesn't necessarily represent community consensus and needs to be discussed. That discussion should probably go here for now...although eventually we may make these pages a little more structured. For a general TODO list, see the "tasks" item on the project page. Jdorje 23:17, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

Hello! I'm a new participant and helper and I have a few suggestions (though most of them might be far-fetched).

  • Suggestion 1: For the requested articles list, is there a way to archive the finished articles? More-so date-archiving them?
  • Suggestion 2: I've always thought competitions were a cool idea, since it's a little quiet here, how about starting another Cyclone Cup?
  • Suggestion 3: Just saw that there was a Peer review section in WIkiProject Mining. Since PR's are barely responded to, why can't we make a section to help the effort?

These are my suggestions for the WikiProject. I understand if you oppose them. Thanks, 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:40, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestions TheNuggeteer (talk · contribs). I think your second one has the best chance of happening, if we have enough editors/writers. As for peer reviews, that is typically done on an informal basis. It requires people wanting to reviews, give feedback, and help improve an article. Again, if we have a list of people willing to review, then it could maybe work. As for the first one, I don't think articles that were once on the request list should be treated any differently than other existing articles. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unusual things I have observed in IBTRACS.

While looking at the 1971 Pacific Typhoon season's IBTRACS page, I saw that some storms (Like the first system, Sarah) were repeated. Why is this? The Wikipedia page for the 1971 Pacific Typhoon season alludes to some systems (like Super Typhoon Lucy) having some sort of secondary system, but what else?--The Space Enthusiast (talk) 00:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Space Enthusiast: The simple answer is that the computer program that IBTRACS uses to combine the BT Data, sometimes thinks that there is a second system when there is a significant difference between the average position and an agencies position. Some of these so called spur tracks are being fixed with time, research and systems being reanalysed.Jason Rees (talk) 01:55, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!--The Space Enthusiast (talk) 22:21, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Validate an edit

A change was made to 1954 in the United States. An editor changed "[[Hurricane Hazel]] makes U.S. landfall; it is the only recorded [[Category 4 hurricane]] to strike as far north as [[North Carolina]]." to "[[Hurricane Hazel]] makes U.S. landfall; it is the first recorded [[Category 4 hurricane]] to strike as far north as [[North Carolina]]."

I just came by to ensure that this is correct. Dawnseeker2000 05:14, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can see in List of United States hurricanes that Hazel indeed is the only Cat 4 to hit North Carolina or anywhere else farther north. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 06:26, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane lists

Why hasn’t anyone thought of making a list of major (cat 3+) hurricane landfalls in the United States?

My proposed list would ONLY include storms that were cat 3+ at the time of landfall (eg: Ian) and in a separate list (in the same article) storms that were close enough to the US to bring major hurricane conditions even if a direct landfall was avoided (eg: Matthew). It would NOT include hurricanes that were at one point cat 3+ but did not make landfall/impact as a cat 3+ (eg: Beryl). Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 12:25, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea but you would have to include systems such as Val 91, Paka and Yutu which came close enough to the "United States" to cause major hurricane conditions, but were not officially classified on the SSHWS.Jason Rees (talk) 13:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Too similar to List of United States hurricanes IMO. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any way we can add a section (on the list of United States hurricanes) that solely singles out major hurricane landfalls then? Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 19:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it's OK Hurricane Clyde (talk · contribs), I'd like to expand on your idea, and continue the discussion on the talk page for List of United States hurricanes. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Costliest U.S. Atlantic hurricanes

I came across the template while looking at Hurricane Helene, and I think the intensity at landfall is a bit misleading. Yes, Katrina was officially a Cat 3, and Sandy was extratropical at landfall, but I don't think the categories help, since in some instances it makes a storm seem not as bad - Ike as a Cat 2. If no one opposes, I'll remove the categories for landfall. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:49, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral – I’m not opposed; but I’m not going to explicitly say that I support it either. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 20:42, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on the reliability of Wayne Neely

There is a discussion on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard about "The Great Bahamas Hurricane of 1866" by Wayne Neely, editor witb subject knowledge would be appreciated. See WP:RSN#Bahamas Department of Meteorology history. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 13:56, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Units

In many Atlantic and Pacific hurricane articles, sections about impacts in Mexico use imperial units first, despite that Mexico uses metric system exclusively. In many instances, the sources give metric units but then these are then flipped to show imperial units first. They should have metric units first to reflect practices in Mexico. --40bus (talk) 20:47, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, if the storm article is about Mexico, then it should have metric units first. Not every article is properly formatted. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 23:45, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GIBBS is down

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/gibbs/, a site for looking up satellite images of the Earth since 1966, has not been up since Hurricane Helene hit. Because I want to see imagery of the late 60's and early 70's tropical cyclone seasons, particularly the Western Pacific ones, where could I get the satellite data? I have seen several websites with satellite data, such as ESSA-9, but they may need an account.The Space Enthusiast (talk) 23:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can I join this WikiProject?

I want to help the Tropical Cyclone WikiProject in any way. Can I please join, because I “wanna go for a spin”. HurricaneKirk2024 (talk) 02:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m just obsessed with hurricanes tbh and Nadine (Invest 94L) is coming so HurricaneKirk2024 (talk) 02:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to join WPTC, you can add your name to the current members at the bottom of the list, under the last person who joined. You can then add the following to your user page. Based on your editing history and comments I recommend you become familiar with Wikipedia's style of writing and core policies so you can start editing tropical cyclone articles. Also note you don't have to ask permission to join a Wikiproject or make an edit. JayTee⛈️ 16:09, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This user participates in
WikiProject Tropical cyclones.

Climate Change effects on hurricanes

Should we mention the effects of climate change on hurricanes in every hurricane article? There appears to be no consensus, with some people wanting to make climate change info its own subsection, others wanting to just add a paragraph on it, and a third group that does not want to add it at all for repetition/RS issues(since Tropical cyclones and climate change applies to every tropical cyclone). Wildfireupdateman (talk) 20:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I think no. It comes up with almost every landfalling major hurricane, because there happen to be sources that talk about it. For example, if the climate change bit was about rainfall, or higher water temperatures, just mention them without the "climate change", which is more about the broad patterns and not any individual storm. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft for PTC Eight?

I think we need an article/draft for Eight. It caused one (indirect) fatality, and made minor flooding in the Carolinas. This “tropical disturbance” only lasted two days; but with enough sources, I think it might be able to have an article.

  • To be honest, I think any storm that causes a fatality should have an article.

HurricaneKirk2024 (talk) 16:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's already a discussion about that on the 2024 AHS talk page. Also, that rule (any storm that causes a fatality gets an article) is impractical. Too many old historical storms that caused a death or two that couldn't support a sub-article. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok HurricaneKirk2024 (talk) 17:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move at Talk:Tropical Storm Conson (2021)#Requested move 8 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tropical Storm Conson (2021)#Requested move 8 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. asilvering (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does being a Category 5 Pacific hurricane establish notability?

Per the recommendation of @Jasper Deng I'm going to start a broader project discussion about this. As the subheading states, does being a Category 5 hurricane alone establish a Pacific hurricane as notable? Apparently there is standing project precedent that all Category 5 Pacific hurricanes get their own articles. I don't think this precedent should really be in place to begin with. While it's true Category 5 hurricanes are less common in the Pacific than the Atlantic, I think a storm intensifying to Category 5 status then weakening without affecting land or setting any meteorological records doesn't establish its notability. What's more, these storms generally don't receive news coverage that goes beyond stating what the NHC had already said about the storm intensity-wise, so this doesn't seem to meet the "Significant coverage" metric of WP:GNG. Additionally, simply stating the storm's meteorological history and data without any other significant information seems to be violating WP:NOTPLOT. Looking for comments on whether this precedent should stand as it directly affects an article for an active storm. JayTee⛈️ 00:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It should. WP:NOTPLOT applies to human works and does not apply to real-life events. Hurricane Celia (2010) is a similar storm to Kristy and although its records aren't truly records in the sense of first place in anything (except strongest June hurricane), they're enough to warrant a section.
GNG is not a problem with the RS coverage we do have; the NHC is the WP:PRIMARY source with the other news articles the needed WP:SECONDARY sources. We can easily flesh out enough material to satisfy WP:SPLIT for all such storms. The question should be how do we serve our readers best, and Cat 5's are one of the most sought-after topics for readers in this basin.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For Kristy specifically, could we tack it onto Nadine like with Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal? ✶Quxyz✶ 00:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Very few sources join the two in the way Amanda and Cristobal did, so probably not. But that could be a better alternative than not having an article at all for Kristy.--Jasper Deng (talk) 00:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree as, if Kristy has no other notability, it would be the better route. For the conversation as a whole, I believe that Category 5s shouldn't have inherent notability. Possibly, they could have lower standards but fish-storm Category 5s without any records should not have articles. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Several sources directly connect the remnants of Nadine with the formation of Kristy, as will official season summaries and TCRs I'm sure. A combined Nadine–Kristy article would have both notability, and a depth that the Nadine article lacks due to its small-scale impact, and a Kristy article would lack due to it being a Category 5 fish storm without any records or land affects to its name. Drdpw (talk) 01:14, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am creating the merge request now. ✶Quxyz✶ 01:38, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hold your horses. The idea of merging the two needs a separate discussion on one of the talk pages and a consensus therefore.--Jasper Deng (talk) 01:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To the main subject of this discussion, not every notable topic needs a standalone pages, or in this instance, not every Category 5 hurricane needs its own article. The question is, "how best to help readers understand the subject." For a system like Kristy, the best way might well be through a well written section in the season article. Drdpw (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hard disagree. A reader looking into the intricacies of things like eyewall replacement cycles and the overall genesis process for the strongest storms will not be satisfied by the season article section. Jasper Deng (talk) 01:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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