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Foreign-language citations

Hello, do we have any policies about the use of foreign-language sources? Are they considered equally as appropriate or credible as English-language sources? It can be difficult to establish the credibility, notability, etc. for example of Japanese sources now being used on a site I heavily edit when I don't know any Japanese. Wolfdog (talk) 20:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Wolfdog. Yes we do. See Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources. A link at the top of that section is Wikipedia:Translators available. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Wolfdog:. I answered your question on WP:RSN, you might want to check it. Other than Musical Theater Japan, I'm sure all the sources are reliable Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 01:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Writing a famous scientist page

Is it advisable to include a comprehensive list of all the papers published by a renowned scientist, along with links to each one, when creating their profile page? Estermoyb (talk) 13:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Estermoyb Absolutely not. You could select a representative set of examples (e.g. those most highly cited or discussed in third-party sources). Many scientists have their full bibliographies at the web of science and various other online sources which you could cite. It would help to know the person you plan to write about before we give further advice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you—I wasn’t aware of this. I know the scientist personally, I was working on his English profile since it’s currently only in Spanish, but it’s quite incomplete and provides very little information about him. His full list of publications isn’t available online that is why I added the full list of his articles to the sandbox, including links to the original publications, but I've since removed it following your input.

Also, do you know if I should include all his patents and books? Estermoyb (talk) 09:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Estermoyb I can see that you have done an immense amount of work on the biography draft for Carlos Belmonte Martínez now at User:Estermoyb/sandbox. I'm not sure whether the name here on English Wikipedia should be Carlos Belmonte or Carlos Belmonte Martinez but that's a minor point. I would recommend submitting the draft for review: he is clearly a notable academic. We don't need a list of all his patents and books since Wikipedia doesn't aim to be a c.v. but is an encyclopaedia explaining to readers what a person's or a topic's main long-term significance is. However, on en:Wikipedia we have a very strict policy regarding biographies of living people and you need to read that carefully. In particular, all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. On the other hand, we don't need eleven citations to back up one statement, which you have at one point regarding his research. So my overall advice is to focus on the person, not the research (except as necessary to support claim of notability) and cut all the minor details until the draft is accepted as a mainspace article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:40, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

... incidentally, I had no difficulty in finding a fairly detailed list of his publications via Google scholar. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I’ve removed the lists of patents and articles and added references to support all claims that are made throughout the page.

I reviewed the "living people" guidelines and believe the page is compliant. The only personal details included are that "he lives in San Juan," which he has approved, that he has three children—also with his approval—and that he has collaborated professionally with them in various companies, which is a public aspect of his business career. Additionally, there is a street in Alicante named after him.

@Estermoyb It is entirely irrelevant for Wikipedia's purposes that the subject of a biography has "approved" any content. By the verification policy, articles can only be based on material already published in a reliable source (some of which may be WP:OFFLINE) and anything that cannot be verified must be removed. For some personal information, sources such as the individual's own website are acceptable, as described at WP:ABOUTSELF. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Many of his roles in various research centers and editorial boards are from earlier periods, so there aren’t direct online records of these positions due to the lack of internet at the time. However, Carlos provided an official CV link from Presidencia.gva (the Generalitat Valenciana’s website), which is the source used by Spanish authorities for various verifications.

I'm ready to submit the draft for review but can't locate the submission option. Please, could you assist me with it? Estermoyb (talk) 20:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I just submitted it. It seems my page didn’t load properly, and when I clicked the blue button to send the article for review, nothing happened. I assumed it was just part of the template. Estermoyb (talk) 21:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The source you've cited in support of the statement that "Carlos Belmonte is married, has three children and resides near the Mediterranean coast in San Juan, Alicante" doesn't appear to contain that information. Please note that only information that is supported by reliable, published sources should be included in the article, per WP:VERIFY. Even if you know it to be true, that information doesn't belong on Wikipedia unless it can be sourced. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Refs do not have to be accessible on-line, but then you need to use a print format.David notMD (talk) 03:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for this. I included references to the other companies he founded with his children, Pablo and Diego, based on his own account, though I don’t have an online source confirming it. I also added a link to the news article about a street being named after him in Alicante province, where he resides in the San Juan area but I neither have a reference for it. Estermoyb (talk) 20:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Help me improve this article

This article has been declined several times I checked it out and tried to follow the instructions to improve it, but it was still declined. What is it that we may be doing wrong. Can I have someone help me improve it? Bobbyshabangu _talk 17:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Bobbyshabangu, and welcome to the Teahouse. It looks to me as if you have written the adraft BACKWARDS.

To take an example, the section "Format and Content" is unsourced, and looks very like what the organisation says or wants to say about itself. But Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. ColinFine (talk) 17:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Gently, Bobbyshabangu is an experienced article creator with 119 live articles under their belt. @Bobbyshabangu: have you tried asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Africa or WP:AFCHD? I agree with the reviewer that the current sourcing doesn't establish notability per NORG. Folly Mox (talk) 13:15, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks colleagues. @ColinFine indeed the user who initially created the first draft of the article reached out and asked the same questions " What is it they are doing wrong, how can they improve the article?" and I decided to assist them improve the article because of several reasons including:

• Help new users edit Wikipedia - I can see that although they are not really new users but they are not active users.
• There's a dearth in African content online and on Wikipedia - It has been my mission to increase African related content on Wiki as well as African languages
• Encouraging/Activating (African) user - No one has a formulae to activating new users. However, I've learned over the years that the best way to activate/encourage users is to actively use the 5 pillars of Wikipedia to improve their articles. This sometimes is a challenges because we don't have a lot of reliable sources in the African continent and oral citations is out of the question.

@Folly Mox thanks I'll check it out. Bobbyshabangu _talk 02:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @Bobbyshabangu. Sorry I didn't check the history. That's a very good set of reasons to help, and reminds me that I can sometimes lose sight of what it's like to be a new or inexperienced user. ColinFine (talk) 11:14, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

The morning after

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Do the tech people at Wikimedia have a contingency plan for when those enemies of the truth Donald Trump and his Minister of Propaganda Elon Musk come for Wikipedia, as they likely will? Carlstak (talk) 18:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

An awfully wild assumption there, presented as fact, behind your "question." Without declaring myself, it will no doubt surprise you to learn that there are people just as convinced that it's the other way round. Uporządnicki (talk) 13:25, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

That Trump and Musk should have contingency plans for when the enemies of the truth the Wikipedians come for them? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

You think I don't know that Trumpers, right-wing extremists, QAnoners, Christian Nationalists, and assorted nutjobs regularly soapbox and declare that WP is biased on relevant political article talk pages? Surely you jest. On election day, The New Republic published an article titled "Elon Musk Kicks Off Election Day by Going Full QAnon". It has an embedded video posted by Musk on X Monday night in which Trump declares: "...the future does not belong to globalists, the future belongs to patriots", [then] the O in the word "patriot" transforms into a Q. The rest of the letters quickly fall away, leaving only the Q, for QAnon as the audio trumpets "activation word: Ronald McDonald". The New Republic continues:

The Trump hype video appears to have been made by an account called "National Revival" which describes itself as “✞ Immortal Knight of Aryamehr ♛ Imperial State of Iranshahr Minister of Propaganda." --Carlstak (talk) 14:03, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution? Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Probably just handing over any personal data they have on file about users who have edited any AmPol articles in ways that displease the ruling party. Folly Mox (talk) 18:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

You know, I can't remember Trump making a comment about WP ever, and he's a guy who comments on a lot of stuff. I don't think he cares that much. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Trump may not care, but you can bet that Musk does. People are still mocking him for buying Twitter at an inflated price, but he purchased a "political weapon" for his $44 billion, and helped Trump win. His ROI will likely be a lot more than that, considering that he has various enterprises with government contracts. Wikipedia is also a powerful political tool. Siri and Google Assistant quote it for answers to random user questions, and its articles are often at the top or very near the top of Google search results for a given subject. That is real life power.

If I publish an academic paper on the Lost Cause of the Confederacy, maybe a few dozen, or at most a few hundred people will read it. If I write a lede for the WP article, tens of thousands will read it every month, and more will hear it. Elon Musk doesn't like his WP biography, and called it a "dumpster fire". I think Wikimedia should move its servers to Australia. Carlstak (talk) 00:37, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This seems like a discussion outside of the scope the Teahouse that's has the potential to attract lots of heat and be never ending. Perhaps it would be better to continue it somewhere else. I don't know where per se, but maybe WP:VPM. Moreover, queries to the tech people at Wikimedia probably should be directed to the WMF itself. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I will contact WMF when I get a chance. I am on a boat in a gale that has been blowing steadily for three weeks. The boat rocks and rolls all day and night, so nothing is easy here. Carlstak (talk) 14:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't you wanna Rock And Roll All Nite? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm out of weed. It's a living hell.;-) Carlstak (talk) 14:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How to switch to stuff like [earth]

1numberblock (talk) 15:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Is your question about the article Earth? David notMD (talk) 15:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

No, it's about the mode which makes the links to [((1))]. 1numberblock (talk) 15:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@1numberblock: If you mean switching from VisualEditor to the source editor then click the pencil icon at the top right and select "Source editing". See Help:VisualEditor#Opening VisualEditor. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

No,I want to switch to Wikitext 1numberblock (talk) 16:01, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

There is detailed help on both editors, and other topics, at Help:Introduction. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:03, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

No need to reply,This should be archived

@lowercase sigmabot III!💜 1numberblock (talk) 16:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

1numberblock (talk) 16:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@1numberblock: Discussions that haven't had activity in a few days will be archived. There's no need to summon a bot. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Then this question should be SELENCE 1numberblock (talk) 18:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

1numberblock (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@1numberblock: The source editor uses wikitext. The wikitext is the "source" which is edited directly by a tool called the source editor. If your problem is solved and no more help is needed then you can just write something like "Thank you, problem solved". Others will know there is no need to post and the section will be archived automatically in a couple of days. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you,problem solved. 1numberblock (talk) 07:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

1numberblock (talk) 07:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Protect this page

My User Page,well,not my main user page, as I still plan to possibly edit it in the future, this user page, I have no intention of editing it and if anyone edits it I will count it as Vandalism, someone please Protect it UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 16:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, UnsungHistory. I am an adminstrator. We do not pre-emptively protect pages. Actual disruption must take place before a page is protected. You do not own that page and you do not get to decide that any edit by anyone else is vandalism, because it isn't necessarily. Cullen328 (talk) 17:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually,It is my other UserPage, UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 18:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

UnsungHistory, what I said applies to every single one of your userpages. Cullen328 (talk) 20:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

References numbered in wrong order

A few days ago I published a new film article, The Ballad of a Gunfighter. I've written other articles, but with this one the Info Box lists the first reference as 2, and the second reference is shown as 1. The number takes the reader to the correct reference source, but I can't figure out why 2 comes before 1. Any ideas on what went wrong? Karenthewriter (talk) 16:26, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Karenthewriter You have put some in the Infobox and some in the article,and i am not sure what exactly happens but some sort of counting system there,nothing went wrong though UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 16:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I have written dozens of articles with Info Boxes and have never had references get numbered in the wrong order. It is hard to believe that nothing went wrong when the references are incorrectly numbered. Karenthewriter (talk) 23:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

A named reference in the infobox comes first. An reference (named or not) in the text comes next. Then, on recycling the named reference from the infobox, the next reference reuses the number. Besides, the visual editor names its references. 176.1.130.21 (talk) 04:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Karenthewriter: The reference with number 1 is in the released parameter of the infobox and it's processed first when the infobox uses the parameter to automatically generate the short description "1963 American film". It would also have happened in the country parameter. Just ignore it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, thank you for giving me the reason for the oddity. This is my first article on a theater-released film, so I never gave a released-year before, so never experienced references numbered in non-chronological order. Karenthewriter (talk) 21:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Checked template

Hello, I'm sure I saw a template next to the GA/FA icon on articles that looked something like: "Checked ✓", and when you hovered over it, it said something like "this page was last checked on [insert date]". But now I can't find this on any articles, and ChatGPT doesn't seem to know anything about it. Was I hallucinating? It is a wonderful world (talk) 16:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, the check mark is normal on WP pages,it is to assure people that it is a documented wikipedia policy,unless you are talking about something else? UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 16:51, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@It is a wonderful world You'll see the same icon right now on the Helpdesk. It is because that page is currently suffering from vandalism and has a particular form of protection. WP:PROTECT has details. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh I see, that's what it was. Thank you so much. I thought it was an icon to indicate that the page had gone through a full source check (superior to even that of an FA spot check).

On that topic, has this idea ever been proposed? I could see it being very useful for users who want to know how reliable a pages information is. It is a wonderful world (talk) 18:44, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think that the problem with that proposal is that the very next edit to the article might make it unreliable again. If I were really concerned to see the "most reliable" version of a WP:FA, I'd look on its Talk Page for the version that had been reviewed/accepted, which is normally reachable via the Talk Header or edit history. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thank you for your help. It is a wonderful world (talk) 11:56, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

How Does One Format Userboxen?

If you visit my user page, you might notice that my userboxen are poorly formatted. How do I fix this? Any help is appreciated! Drdr150 (talk) 17:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drdr150 The usual way to fix that is to use the template {{Userboxtop}} above all your userboxes and {{Userboxbottom}} at the foot. I previewed this change by editing your userpage and it places everything into a single column to the right, as expected. However, with all the boxes you have, when you don't have much else, you may not feel this helps. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Creating a page/article

I am interested in creating a page/article. I would like assistance creating the page/article, and reply.

Kind Regards 2600:1702:5C58:4040:88E:E4E4:4000:4461 (talk) 18:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

we have a how to guide on this Wikipedia:How to create a page UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 18:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

i think WP:FIRST would be more helpful here. otherwise the teahouse isn't for co-editors or people who will write the article for you. aquarium substrate^talk 19:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, strongly recommended that you create an account and then put in significant time improving existing articles before attempting to create an article. David notMD (talk) 19:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user, and welcome to the Teahouse. My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 09:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, This should be posted elsewhere like the village pump instead of the Teahouse. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 19:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it's ok here too. There's a ginormous thread at the village pump already. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree to disagree. The Teahouse is meant for a person to ask question, not to be used a bulletin board. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

on editing archives (how naughty!)

editing archived discussions or pages to fix malformed links. yay or nay?

the big shiny "do not modify" text seems to say nay, precedent of that happening seems to say yay cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 19:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Cogsan: Some formatting issues and syntax errors are OK to fix. What type of "malformed links" do you have in mind, and is it in user talk archives? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

talk archives, user talk archives, wikipedia talk archives, recently archived discussions, the whole spectrum. you never know when something will end up in rfd because someone created a redirect instead of fixing a minor spelling mistake. see wp:autoconfimred and its incredibly long rfd discussion for an example, and for the context of said discussion, the typo was in archive 528

still, "some" seems enough, if it's limited to uncontroversial (or even mildly helpful) technical fixes, so thanks cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 20:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Cogsan: "malformed" would usually mean wrong syntax like having the wrong number of brackets or a disallowed character. You appear to refer to misspelt links and not malformed links. We usually don't fix those in archives, especially if they still work via a redirect. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

sometimes an user references another thread, or even a concrete answer, in a post. When that is archived some helpful snackbar comes if you click on it, and says where in the archive it can be found. But sometimes an equally helpful robot modified the title with something like "SOLVED" and the snackbar doesn't work anymore on the modified title. Therefore it would help to modify the link to the real target instead of a "clever" search engine. 176.1.130.21 (talk) 05:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

How to cite in this format?

I'm wondering how the article cosy game is cited in this way. JuniperChill (talk) 19:19, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@JuniperChill:, It looks like it is cited using Help:Shortened footnotes which is a very valid citation style for any articles per WP:CITEVAR. It is unusual to see it in an article that isn't mostly newspaper, book, or journal citations. But, we can't do anything about it. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 19:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm fine with that format being used, even if its not what i'm used to seeing/using. I wasn't looking to change it to what I'm used to anyway, even before reading WP:CITEVAR. I was just looking on how I would use that format when citing sources. JuniperChill (talk) 20:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

You can read about it in Help:Shortened footnotes are at the template, {{sfn}}. Just know that whenever you put a {{sfn}}, you must have the actual source in a "Sources cited", "Works cited", or "Bibliography" section and it has to use a citation template (either WP:CS1 or WP:CS2 will work). Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Image for Usha Vance

I was looking to upload an image in the infobox for Usha Vance, and when I filtered for some creative commons licenses only I got these results, but then they do not seem to indicate which creative commons license they are using. Anyone able to help clarify this for me or help to add this image or one of them to her infobox here?

[1]https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/usha-chilukuri-vance-wife-of-j-d-vance-speaks-on-stage-on-news-photo/2162474316

[2]https://parade.com/culture/jd-vance-wife-usha-vance Iljhgtn (talk) 19:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

As the wife to the VP elect of the United States, it would be odd if she did not have a single CC licensed image that we could upload. Iljhgtn (talk) 19:52, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

None of those indicates they have a license we can use. Potentially she could be in photos on some US-gov site somewhere, or appear on one fairly soon. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Criticism about a Prime Minister

I'm currently considering adding a criticism section on the page of a Prime Minister. The criticism will of course be referenced and cited. Nevertheless, I am quite certain that his supporters will remove my added content. Do they have the right to do so, even though the criticism is referenced and cited by valid sources? Benzekre (talk) 20:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Benzekre In general, criticism sections tend to suck. Consider instead if the content you wish to add can fit in existing sections, Personal life, Early life, Political positions or whatever. You also need to consider the relevant parts of WP:NPOV. And yes, other editors might revert or change what you add. If so, try to discuss and follow WP:DR as best you can. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Benzekre, as prime minister of Britain, Boris Johnson has been widely criticized (though perhaps never compared to a lettuce). Yet the article about him lacks any "Criticism" section. The criticism is instead contained within "COVID-19 pandemic" and other sections. -- Hoary (talk) 22:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

My signature got rejected

I tried to make a custom signature but they said it is too long they did not let me sign the Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation,or at least i did but they reverted it as "invalid",i tried to change it to adress their concerns but i messed up and now have the following signature:[[User:UnsungHistory|<span style="color: Purple">UnsungHistory</span>]] (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) is my signature that got rejected,is there a policy against that?none that I am aware of, [[User:UnsungHistory|<span style="color: Purple">UnsungHistory</span>]] (talk) 20:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

the only issue i can see is it's length but signature policy is here- WP:SIGAPP aquarium substrate^talk 20:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

the use of "it's" as the possessive form of "it" hurts me on a spiritual level. that aside, it's kind of strange. i did some tests for both the proposed and current signature and

• as is, both were rejected on my end for not including links to a page associated with my account. figured that'd happen
• hastily editing mentions of your username to mine worked just fine. one even made my name purple (how ungreen!)

it seems the issue for the current one is just not ticking the "treat as wiki markup" box, and that your signature in the open letter was removed due to not including a timestamp. as is, i'd say work on this current one by including a talk page link or something cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 21:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Aquarium substrate,how is it too long?58/255 characters,that is less then half UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 21:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@UnsungHistory, it looks like Aquarium substrate assumed that the broken signature formatting was your final version of your signature but probably didn't understand your original question. But it looks like you fixed it. I think the issue was that it was using decimal HTML code output instead of actual signs (which breaks the CSS formatting). Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

We would like to get our site back up TRAC (Terrorism Research & Analysis Consortium)

get our site back up Our website Terrorist Research & Analysis Consortium (TRAC) was taken down because it said we had something promotional on there. We can remove this it is no problem I just don't know what part you objected too. Can you advise us of what part to remove and how to activate it again? Tracross (talk) 20:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Terrorism Research & Analysis Consortium --Finngall ^talk 21:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Also inquired about last week: see Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1239#TRAC_website --Finngall ^talk 21:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@78.26: You deleted this, and there was just one !vote, and looking at the earlier versions in the deleted history, it seems like this would be appropriate to restore to draft space for improvement and review. Do you object?

no objection whatsoever. I’m strictly on mobile device for the next few days, or I’d do it myself. I fat finger everything on my phone. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 19:32, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Tracross, you can improve it while it's in draft space, but once it's in article space, you have no business touching it except to propose changes on the article's talk page. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the AFD was before soft deletion at low-participation debates was as much of a thing as it is now. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 00:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I have undeleted the article and moved it to Draft:Terrorism Research & Analysis Consortium. Tracross, please try to improve it there and press the submit button when you believe it's ready to review. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Can you help me with converting my account to English..Im having a Devil of a time

Can you help with converting my site back to English? Me'tatron (talk) 21:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Main Page Me'tatron (talk) 21:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Me'tatron, I'm not sure I fully understand. Is the interface in another language? If so, go to Special:Preferences, scroll down to "Internationalisation" and then set the language to English. win8x (talking | spying) 21:46, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Me'tatron, welcome to the Teahouse. I'm also unsure what you mean. The interface language is set at Special:Preferences. The default is "en - English". If you have changed it then the "Internationalisation" heading may currently be in another language. This link will be in English. If you mean the stories on Main Page are not in English then there must be a machine translation in your browser and it cannot be changed at Wikipedia. If you mean you don't get an English page when you enter Wikipedia than maybe you are not viewing a page here at https://en.wikipedia.org where "en" is the language code for English. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Page protection on Bodhidharma

Hello, can I please apply for page protection on Bodhidharma. Due to historical negativism and POV Thankyou Foristslow (talk) 22:27, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Foristslow. We protect pages only due to clear-cut vandalism and ongoing disruption. I do not see that here. Continue discussing the routine content disagreements at Talk: Bodhidharma, and work toward consensus. Cullen328 (talk) 23:28, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

the problem is there seems to be some editors that have a POV about indian Buddhism and trying to remove Chinese cultural Buddhist involvment on many Chinese Buddhist related pages.what is the best way to go about addressing these issues moving on. Thanks for your help Foristslow (talk) 00:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Foristslow, there are various forms of dispute resolution available to you. The first step is always to do your best to build consensus through discussion on article talk pages. Cullen328 (talk) 02:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

thanks again for the reply. First of all does Wikipedia have a mentor program for editors. As I wish to extend my knowledge of the procedure and processes to extend my ability to contribute. And second with this one, I am afraid that I do not have much confidence in the other editors involved as I am concerned about impartiality, as many of the reference material that they are using is obscure, local knowledge or by oral transcript and most often very weak, and not accepting other resources because they do not fit a particular narrative. I am used to writing reviews on medical journals and papers on related subjects with well cited reference and acknowledgments. Thankyou once again for your time. Foristslow (talk) 03:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello can someone please explain How do I answer back the below comment or even if I should ? There is not a ability to reply to Joshua Jonathan, he has just regurgitated the points in my initial complaint and is this acceptable as my conversation was about resolution, his discourse is aggressive and almost hounding in nature. I have asked him to help on talk instead of being so derogatory and now threatening Thankyou Foristslow (talk) 00:47, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hay, I am having problems with a editor on the Bodhidharma page not wishing to collaborate and work together, or nor wishing to reply to references to initial investigation into historical discrepancies. Hiding my dialogue on the talk page with lists of my editing inexperience, instead of addressing the real issues. Now going to other pages that I had previously edited that, this editor has no history on, and reverting my edits with the same condescending tone's. Happy to know if I am out of line, a bit over enthusiastic in the beginning admittedly. Thankyou Foristslow (talk) 23:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You definitely could use some mentorship; your latest edits to Bodhidharma are rambling, misrepresenting sources, adding unsourced misinformation, and adding grammatical errors. Regarding there seems to be some editors that have a POV about indian Buddhism and trying to remove Chinese cultural Buddhist involvment on many Chinese Buddhist related pages, see WP:PERSONALATTACKS and WP:AGF. Regarding many of the reference material that they are using is obscure, local knowledge or by oral transcript and most often very weak, and not accepting other resources because they do not fit a particular narrative, this comes very close to disqualifying yourself as an editor. If you expect well cited reference and acknowledgments, you should ask yourself if you have any serious command of the scholarly literature on (Chan) Buddhism. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!\

Walt Balenovich, Disabled Author.

Hello, I am a disabled Author, from Canada, who has written a book about backpacking the world alone, in a wheelchair.

The book is "Travels in a Blue Chair: Alaska to Zambia, Ushuaia to Uluru".

How do I get a page about me written, without it getting deleted? I have tried over the years, but to no avail.

I can't even find much content about Disabled Authors' contributions to literature, although much is included about Black, LGBTQ+, Hispanic, Asian and various Religious folk!

Can someone please help me/us to get out of the Wikipedia shadows, and receive a bit of Wikipedia equality?!!!

ISBN 978-0-59-546149-3 2607:FEA8:1380:276:81C6:18EC:1BA1:C33B (talk) 00:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, IP user, and welcome to the teahouse. You can certainly write an article about yourself per WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY but it is highly discouraged because most contain WP:NPOV issues. You can go to WP:Requested articles but it'll probably sit until it's notable. I don't write articles about books but I took a look at WP:BOOKCRIT and I don't think the book, as of right now, is notable enough for an article. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC

For your book (ISBN 978-0-59-546149-3) (or any particular book), please see what's written about "notability" in Wikipedia:Notability (books). I've put "notability" in scare quotes because excellent books can fail to be "notable" in Wikipedia's sense, and garbage can manage to be. As for "content about Disabled Authors' contributions to literature" more generally: an interesting point, and one that you might wish to bring up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disability. -- Hoary (talk) 03:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback and guidance. I will follow up on Project Disability. 2607:FEA8:1380:276:1599:D439:6DD0:ACAB (talk) 10:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello IP user! Read Wikipedia:Autobiography! Ned1a Wanna talk? 22:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

History of Google: Citation Issue

Hi, I am fairly new to Wikipedia so please bear with me.

I was editing and updating History of Google. In the process when trying to add new citations manually or automatically it changes the number and description of the citation to a previous citation on the page. When I try to edit it to fix the problem, it shows the correct information on the edit page but immediately runs into the same problem once inserted.

(Section was 2020s. Attempted citations for "In September 2024"; [3][4] Thank you. CF-501 Falcon (talk) 00:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@CF-501 Falcon Citation numbers can change in a weird way in the visual editor sometimes. I suggest going ahead and making the edit. That way, I can better understand the problem (I can revert the edit if it looks major). Cremastra (u — c) 00:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, @Cremastra. I have gone ahead and done as you asked. Thank You. CF-501 Falcon (talk) 01:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, it hasn't thrown up any errors, so I guess it's good. Cremastra (u — c) 01:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, See you around! CF-501 Falcon (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Category question

Hello! I'm currently working on my user sandbox and I'm on my way on adding categories to it, but are user sandboxes allowed to have article-like categories? Thanks. 3461x (talk) 01:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@3461x Not until you've moved it to articlespace, no. Cremastra (u — c) 01:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You can preface the category name with a colon, like [[:Category:Mountains]]. That way you can have categories in the draft article withough affecting the category pages. When the article is in article space, you can remove the colons. ~Anachronist (talk) 01:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi 3461x, welcome to the Teahouse. You can also use {{Draft categories}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Reliable Source of Adam West?

Hello, How can I find the reliable source of Adam West, please?! Most of them have already been used? Televisionbuff831G (talk) 02:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

There are several Adam Wests, Televisionbuff831G; but your username suggests the Batman Adam West. If you qualify to use the Wikipedia Library, try using it; if you don't, work on some other articles until you do qualify. -- Hoary (talk) 03:32, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

In order for me, not to be banned from using Wikipedia, the best I can do is to create my blog, and go from there. That's where I can do a biography of Adam West. This is very hard. 2600:1700:6A10:96B0:51D4:10F0:83CC:318C (talk) 03:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Question about uploading screen capture to Wikimedia Commons

I was wondering if I could upload a screen capture of Wikipedia to Wikimedia Commons for use in a future article. Would it be tagged as non-usable for the site at all, or is it OK since the screen capture was taken by me? Would I be able to do the same for other social media sites? Surayeproject3 (talk) 02:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Surayeproject3, it should be okay. I suggest you read Wikipedia:Screenshots of Wikipedia, it has everything you need to know. win8x (talking | spying) 03:45, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Surayeproject3. The only potential problem that occurs to me is if the specific screenshot included a non-free image as opposed to a freely licensed or public domain image. Please read WP:NFCI for an understanding of the policy and legal challenges of such non-free images, which we allow in very limited but very important ways, such as identifying artwork in articles about movies, TV shows, plays, books, and musical releases, as well as logos used in articles about companies, commercial products and sports teams. Be sure to exclude such images from your screenshot. Cullen328 (talk) 04:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Might as well add another mistake that could be easily be made, don't include parts of your operating system (Windows, MacOS) in the screenshot, or of your browser. win8x (talking | spying) 04:05, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

My plan is to upload a screenshot of a Wikipedia article/edit, would it be fine to upload as long as it doesn't include the Wikipedia article? Surayeproject3 (talk) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Correction, I meant Wikipedia logo at the end. Surayeproject3 (talk) 04:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

When I view a Wikipedia article in the way I normally view it, there is, near the top of the browser window (and immediately below the place where I can type "http(s):// [blah blah]"), a row of little tabs ("Bookmarks toolbar", perhaps), each with the minuscule icon of the browser (Firefox), the OS, or something (e.g. a message forum) related to the OS. The icons are so tiny that I can hardly believe that their inclusion would be problematic. And there's probably some way to hide the row from view; I haven't investigated. (Worst case, I could remove each tab.) There's no other sign of the OS in the browser window. The Wikipedia logo does not appear. (Wikipedia's incomplete-jigsaw-sphere used to appear, but that was a long time ago.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

In most browsers, if you press F11 the browser will switch to a full screen mode that hides the various toolbars. Amstrad00 (talk) 16:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

When is a List article "too long"?

I'm looking at a List article (List of military electronics of the United States) which is currently 226,025 bytes and growing. There is a hatnote that the list is "very long", but when is it too long? How should an article with this much info be efficiently split into sub-pages? Thank you in advance. — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 05:13, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You could try to split it into parts for the different branches which would shorten the List for each branch. Synonimany (talk) 10:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

That might work except most items on the list are used across multiple branches. Not sure how we could accomplish that. My question was more like “should it be split” at this point? — TadgStirkland⁴⁰¹ (Tadg^Talk) 17:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe one list for cross-branch equipment and one for each branch, could that work? Synonimany (talk) 20:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

And if for example this works, it should be split, as it would be more searchable and readable, because this would make the lists shorter. Synonimany (talk) 20:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Why are secondary sources the most important?

Why not primary be or share being the most important? Also, what are the disadvantages of prioritizing secondary sources as most important? - S L A Y T H E - (talk) 05:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Slaythe, please read and digest Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources. -- Hoary (talk) 07:05, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Can you link to a specific part of a Wikipedia article?

In my case, I'm currently working on edits for Millennium Force. In a certain part of the article, a note is mentioned that explains that the trains were slightly modified following an incident on Superman the Ride. While there is a link to STR's page when mentioning the coaster itself, I want to create a direct link to the incident (as mentioned on STR's page) directly accessible when selecting "incident" on Millennium's page. (There are 2 mentioned incidents on STR, I want to link it to the second one from 2004) Thanks! Therguy10 (talk) 14:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Therguy10: You can use the following notation: [[ARTICLE#SECTION]]. In your case it would be [[Superman The Ride#Accidents and incidents]] NightWolf1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 15:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I've put the link in for you. Your specific request needed a thing called an Anchor. This (WP:LINKPART) will explain what I've done. - X201 (talk) 16:18, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@NightWolf1223 @X201 Thank you very much! Therguy10 (talk) 16:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Marie Curie

Marie Curie when was this page created?? Izzybjordyn (talk) 15:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Izzybjordyn It was created on 29 October 2001, turned into a redirect in 2002 and then returned on 25 February 2002. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 15:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Izzybjordyn, welcome to the Teahouse. I don't know what you want it for but if you want to cite the article in a work outside Wikipedia then you can click "Tools" at the top right of the article and "Cite this page" to get [5]. The suggested citation formats don't use the creation date where it had almost none of the current content. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:38, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

do fire have differ colors

why ask for fire colors It says it do not exist what do you mean wikipedia 149.154.23.130 (talk) 16:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

If you look at the article for Fire it clearly mentions that fire can have different colors. That being said, the Teahouse is for asking questions about using and editing Wikipedia, did you have something related to that topic you needed help with? Amstrad00 (talk) 16:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Searching for articles to edit

When I try to edit articles using the UI even though there is something that says this article is bad for X, Y, and Z, I see that other users have already fixed the problems on the articles. How do I make good edits when there are no more edits to make? Wikihelper59 (talk) 17:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Wikihelper59, the Wikipedia:Task Center has a list of articles needing different edits. I believe you are intending to "Copy-Edit" to help improve articles. There are resources to help you there. Have fun! CF-501 Falcon (talk) 18:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Wikihelper59 Citation hunting is always a good way to find articles to edit, that and it'll help you learn how to make citations properly. There's also plenty of stubs out there, just waiting for someone such as yourself to improve them. I always find it useful to go through Wikiprojects like Military History or Videogames, looking at their stub class articles. You can find those here: Category:Stub-Class military history articles Category:Stub-Class video game articles.

If you're so inclined, WikiProject Military History actually has lists of articles that need specific improvements, so you really can fill your boots if you know where to look. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 19:05, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Creating a New Page

Hi! I just joined because I wanted to create a page about a temple in my area that has been around for quite a while (1990), but I don't exactly know. Sorry if this is a stupid question! Pandaman23 (talk) 21:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

And also why are some pages edited differently than others? Some are like I can edit directly meanwhile others are edited in their source. Pandaman23 (talk) 21:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Pandaman23 Help:Introduction is a good guide to editing in general and the difference between the "visual" editor and the "source" editor. As a new user, you won't be able to create a new article directly yet and must use the articles for creation process. However, I would strongly advise you to gain some experience first by editing existing articles: writing from scratch is more difficult before you have some experience in the way Wikipedia works. Good luck! Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you so much for the help. Also one more thing this person reverted one of my edits or something how do I see what they changed and why? Pandaman23 (talk) 07:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Pandaman23 If you mean edits at Hindu Temple of Greater Chicago, see the "View history" tab on that page, which leads to [6]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Pandaman23 (talk) 07:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Since I'm inexperienced I'm not sure about this but do you think its justified for him to revert my edits. were they really that bad? I mean what was wrong about them I made them a bit grammatically correct and shortened sentences. Pandaman23 (talk) 07:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Pandaman23 That is a reasonable question. It's possible that @Ram1751 doesn't object to all of your edit, but it's almost always a mistake to try to read other editors minds. Per WP:COMMUNICATE, I suggest that the 2 of you try to discuss your disagreements at Talk:Hindu Temple of Greater Chicago and see what you can agree on. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I created another account for use in examples

User:UnsungExtra is a account i created for use for examples -- UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 22:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

No need to announce that at the Teahouse! The guidance at WP:ALTACCOUNT should be followed, though. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I posted it at Teahouse because I wanted to just make it have more attention in this community,and possibly be used as an example in some help page, I was inspired by UserBob,I did not know where else to announce it. UnsungHistory (Questions or Concerns?) (See how I messed up) 22:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Date formatting in citations

Is there a consensus on how dates should be written in citations? Such as November 8, 2024, 8 November 2024, 11-8-2024, etc. I came across MOS:DATEUNIFY, so I'm assuming it's more about being consistent with other citations. I've been trying to clean up some and add more info to them too. But I've frequently noticed the dates are often inconsistent for the same page. Thank you in advance and sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere already. Snakester95 (talk) 01:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

MOS:DATETIES could be possibly argued to apply to such situations even that it seems to apply more to dates appearing the article than dates appearing in citations. Probably the safest bet here would be to stick to MOS:DATEVAR and WP:CITEVAR and defer to the date format used by article's creator or its primary contributors. If you want to change from one date format to another, you could always propose it on the article's talk page and explain why. If nobody responds in a reasonable amount of time (this can vary based upon how regularly the article is being edited but a week should be OK), you can assume WP:SILENCE and make the change. If someone reverts things back, you then know who to discuss things with and where to discuss it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good Marchjuly, thank you for the response! Snakester95 (talk) 02:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Article Declined

I lost all my 8 hours of work to wikipedia. WOW Therealjacksonstephen (talk) 02:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Therealjacksonstephen You have a draft at User:Therealjacksonstephen/sandbox. It was Declined because the reviewer replied that there is an existing article on this topic. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is rated as a Good article (the green circle with a + in the center; top right) but it may be possible for you to improve that. David notMD (talk) 04:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Therealjacksonstephen, Wikipedia is an actual encyclopedia that has one article about each notable topic, not several. Before you said that you "lost all" of your "8 hours of work", and before you began trying to write a new article, you should have checked carefully in advance to see if an article about your chosen topic already existed. Your work is not lost. If it incorporates new, informative, neutrally written and properly referenced content about the topic, then that new material can be incorporated into the existing article. Cullen328 (talk) 08:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking more closely, Therealjacksonstephen, it becomes clear that User:Therealjacksonstephen/sandbox is vastly inferior to the excellent work at The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Are you truly trying to argue that poor quality work should replace good quality work? Cullen328 (talk) 08:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

One of the most bizarre ingredients of your draft, Therealjacksonstephen, is that it explicitly cites The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim as a reference. The other references that I glanced at aren't as bizarre, but they're hardly more appropriate. Sources must be reliable; this disqualifies wikis and the like. -- Hoary (talk) 08:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Not only does the Sandbox Draft still exist, Therealjacksonstephen, but you have gained 8 hours of valuable practice in creating Wikipedia articles. Being able to do so is a skill (or craft), and like any other skill has to be learned, which always involves making mistakes and learning from them. Most people need several times that amount of practice to reach an acceptable level of competency. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.7.95.48 (talk) 21:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your response. Im sorry for the misunderstanding, my sister accseesed my computer, and sent the original message. Thank you, Jackson Stephen. Therealjacksonstephen (talk) 23:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Dates for inline cn tags replacing section/article ones

If I were to replace e.g. an unreferenced section template with inline CN tags instead would I be able to take the date of the tag and apply it to my inline tags? Here's a sandbox example: [7] Traumnovelle (talk) 03:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Traumnovelle, welcome to the Teahouse! Yes, that's correct; you can take the date and use it for the inline tags. Cheers, — Frostly (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Subpage deletion

Hi, I want to delete some of my subpages which are not useful anymore. so, what is the proper way to nominate a subpage to make it deleted. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 06:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey Perfectodefecto!

I'm assuming you mean pages in your User namespace.

The correct way to do this is to tag them for Speedy Deletion under Criteria U1 - see info about this here: WP:U1.

Simply add {{Db-u1}} to the top of the page!

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with! :) MolecularPilot 07:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Many Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 07:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

edits

How do I improve my editing quality? HiLux duck (talk) 06:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello User:HiLux duck!

Welcome to Wikipedia! We're so excited to have you here.

I see you've done the Wikipedia Adventure - that's a great way to learn the basics.

My main recommendation would be to just dive right into editing - one of our core principles is to be WP:BOLD. Other editors, including myself, will be more than happy to help you learn should you make a mistake.

However, if you're looking for some reading, I'd recommend the simplified manual of style or the pillars of Wikipedia.

If you have any other questions please feel free to reach out to me (on my talk page) or ask another question on the teahouse.

Happy Editing! MolecularPilot 07:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Just as for other activities, by acquiring many skills and exercising them vigorously. Wikipedia has plenty of "help" material about this kind of thing. You should also exercise your curiosity. I see you've been editing the article Citroën Xsara Picasso. This has a table titled "Petrol engine". No source is provided for the information in this table. We need to know where it comes from: Directly from Citroën, or from some other source that's putatively independent of Citroën? If the latter, then really independent, or just recycling the info it gets from car companies? And within that table, what's going on with the claimed top speeds of the "1.8i" and "2.0i" variants? (Measured in mph, the 1.8i is described as a tiny bit faster; measured in km/h, the 2.0i is.) This is the kind of thing that a good Wikipedia editor should notice and preferably chase up in reliable sources (but if time doesn't permit source hunting, then preferably flag with the appropriate template). -- Hoary (talk) 07:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Blocking Advertisement Users

I know an account known as @BigMac, which is currently a McDonalds restaurant burger. The Wikipedia terms of service and the rules say that advertising users are not allowed and should be blocked, like accounts like @Rationalwiki. Am I allowed to block the user? Karrenswates (talk) 07:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

User "BigMac" last edited 19 years ago. Is this user really worth our attention? -- Hoary (talk) 07:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, only WP:ADMINs can block users. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

If you were an admin(istrator), then you might be allowed to do it but you would not normally do it. User BigMac does not seem to pose a risk of doing anything wrong, and blocks are preventative, not punitive. -- Hoary (talk) 07:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Karrenswates, there is no account that I can detect, blocked or unblocked, called User: Rationalwiki, even though that is a website well known among skeptics. Why use that particular example, which is evidence of nothing? The hamburger account has not edited since before many college sophomores were born, and has never once edited to promote the big burger chain. Do you really think that investigating this ancient account is a good use of volunteer time? Cullen328 (talk) 08:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Also, 'Bigmac' is a character in a popular series of children's books. Perhaps the account was named after him: naming accounts after fictional characters is quite common. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.7.95.48 (talk) 21:15, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

How to publish a DRAFT

Few years ago a draft was made in the English Wiki page from the Amharic published Wikipedia ? How can I publish it and make it live Draft:Fesseha Atlaw. Fesseha1 (talk) 07:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello Fesseha1!

Welcome to Wikipedia.

The way to submit a draft is to go through the articles for creation process, where draft articles are reviewed (by an experienced editor) and then published.

I have added a box on the top of the draft with more information about this, including a button labeled "Submit the draft for review!" that you can press once you would like to submit it.

However, in its present state, the article does not indicate that he qualifies for an article, and seems to be formatted less-than-optimally. Please review our simplified manual of style and guidelines on whether people qualify for an article before submitting so that you can increase your chances of the article being approved.

Please don't hesitate to ask any other questions you might have! :) MolecularPilot 07:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This draft was created (on 2 May '24) by Tedolightnirvana, who is blocked for their efforts at advertising. So, how to publish that draft? Find some other website (unrelated to Wikipedia) and do it there. As for en:Wikipedia, the best course is to wait until somebody unrelated to and independent of Fesseha Atlaw creates a policy-compliant draft (if that would be possible). -- Hoary (talk) 07:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC) ... amended Hoary (talk) 08:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Collabs for a draft

Hi, I found that Draft:Miss AI was declined earlier after being moved back to draft space however, the author has not shown any interest to update the draft yet. Moreover, I have gathered latest news and some reliable sources related to this subject. so, If I update this draft will that create any issue.? —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 10:53, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome to have a go; but before you do, be sure that the subject is notable. (Incidentally, "Guardian" didn't opine anything. The Guardian didn't either. A particular Guardian columnist did. Though of course it's not you who's to blame for this loose writing.) -- Hoary (talk) 11:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright. Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 11:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hoary If I create a draft with the same title after this draft being (auto)-deleted, will that be ok.? —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 12:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Perfectodefecto, if you'd like to start the draft afresh, you don't have to wait. You can instead blank it and start writing a better draft as early as today. But a good idea would be to write some of it away from Wikipedia (e.g. on your computer's hard drive), and once this is good enough for it to be obvious that the new draft is or very soon will be better than what it replaces, blank the current draft and paste in your new material. After that's done you can and probably should improve your draft, of course. -- Hoary (talk) 12:32, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Many Thanks. —𝐏𝐞𝐫𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐨(𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔) 12:38, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Japanese news?

Many Japanese people are talking about that they came from Japanese news or TikTok, in Norme's livestream live chat (If you didn't know who Norme is, see Draft:Norme). I tried searching for Japanese news about Norme, but I couldn't find anything. I also want to add a source from my draft article "Norme" about the Japanese news on Norme, so you can search for it. If you find it, please add the link. Bakhos2010 (talk) 11:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Bakhos2010 Teahouse Hosts are here to advise, but not to find references for you. David notMD (talk) 11:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind, i find it the news Bakhos2010 (talk) 12:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I want help

Draft:Pcx1 Present

I anyone edit this article properly Bandara Dissanayake (talk) 12:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Can anyone edit this article " Draft:Pcx1_Present " Properly

Bandara Dissanayake (talk) 12:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

"Unprecedented", "mind-boggling", "icons", "exceptional", "further cements his status", "staggering achievement", etc. The internet is already overflowing with promotional flatus. Wikipedia doesn't need to spew more of it. People come to Wikipedia to escape from promotion, not to wallow in it. Please start by cutting out this junk. -- Hoary (talk) 12:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bandara Dissanayake Anyone who wishes to do so can edit Draft:Pcx1 Present. However, if you wish to have it accepted you will have to follow Wikipedia's policy about biographies of living people in relation to inline citations, for example. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Regarding Copyright of Photos

There is a website named Jatland.com which is a type of a wiki. Should i use the pictures uploaded on the articles of Jatland Wiki because the photos available on Jatland Wiki because the photos present on this site are not available on any other site and the copyright of that website states that “Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.” as per this and the content is available under GNU free documentation license. And i want to upload photo of some persons like this one Thanks TheSlumPanda (talk) 14:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@TheSlumPanda Copyright is tricky. WP keeps most of the pics at the sister-site Commons, and that site has this to say on GNU: Commons:Licensing#GNU_Free_Documentation_License.

My reading of that is that you can not assume that a pic is ok on WP/Commons because you found it on Jatland.com. What you can try is talking to the uploader on Jatland.com and ask if they are the copyright holder (almost always the photographer), and if so, ask if they are willing to upload the picture on Commons. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing this information TheSlumPanda (talk) 18:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Is CC-BY-NC-ND-3.0 acceptable on en.wikipedia for a specific image on a specific page?

An image of Jock Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan (File:John ('Jock') Middleton Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan.jpg) has been deleted from Commons (and thus from en.wikipedia) because the Creative Commons licence used by the National Portrait Gallery, London for the image is CC-BY-NC-ND-3.0. Before I spend the time doing it, may I first confirm that if I create a version of it (scaled down to < 1MB?), I can upload here? There is no known alternative and it seems (to me at least) to be essential to the bio article and will only be used in that article. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

References

𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@JMF Yes. Since the Baron is dead, a fair use photo is acceptable. To my knowledge, we treat everything not allowed under c:COM:L as is if it were fully copyrighted, so adding a NFCC justification and lowering the resolution are mandatory. Mach61 15:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Good. That was what I believed but the Commons deletion threw me a bit. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@JMF Note that if you upload it as non-free at WP:FUW, you don't have to worry about low-res, bots will automagically take care of that after a few days. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

TYVM and yes of course I forgot to resize but no, I didn't know about the bots cleaning up after me so I've just uploaded a smaller version, which works fine in an infobox. (It's at File:Jock Campbell, Baron Campbell of Eskan.jpg, if you want to check anything.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Improvements?

I just visited the Summary History for Music for the Requiem Mass to correct a link and didn't realize I had set off such a reaction from an unregistered user. I personally felt that their edits were unnecessary, not an improvement, and in some cases, lessened the content: [8], [9]. I reverted with a Summary stating: "Not an improvement. No RS provided. Out of context." It was met with: F*CK OFF, and Maine Artists - is this another page you think you OWN ??? It's a shit page anyway and needs a lot of work, with or without my help. You and your ilk really need to be identified and BANNED permanently from Wikipedia editing." I still do feel that this user's edits are unproductive or non-contributing (and in some instances: incorrect): [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Music_for_the_Requiem_Mass&diff=prev&oldid=1230533027. I do not wish to revert or edit back for fear of further eruption. I have never encountered this user before and think that this must just be a pattern that they have experienced with other editors on WP. Thoughts? Maineartists (talk) 15:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Maineartists. All editors (even unregistered accounts) are expected to follow WP:CIVIL as best as they can, but sometimes people don't. Perhaps they're just having a bad day or perhaps they just don't care. Either way, you can pursue this further at one of the administrator noticeboards if you want, or you can put in your rear view mirror for now and hope that's the end of it. Either way, if you feel the edits that were made were not in accordance with relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines, you can revert them or start a discussion about them on the article's talk page; in this case, the latter might be a better approach to avoid edit warring. Anyway, edit summaries (good or bad) aren't a substitute for talk page discussion when it comes to content disagreements among editors; you can't force the other person to participate, but they can't ignore a consensus established in such a way. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:50, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I've added a user warning to the IP account's user talk page. I'm not an administrator, but anyone can add a user warning if they feel one is warranted. How the account responds to that will probably provide an indication on what to do next. If they continue to attack and insult you, you can seek assistance at WP:ANI if you like; however, you might want to look at WP:ANI advice before doing so. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Marchjuly. I appreciate it. Maineartists (talk) 00:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Add "exhibitions" to a page

Hello, newbie here. Belle de Costa Greene has a piece missing from her entry and I am unsure how to put it in. She was pivotal to Edward Curtis' ability to document the vanishing native Americans. It was she who greenlit his work to create his masterpieces and JP Morgan funded. This is explained in the 2012 book Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher about Edward Curtis - and she comes in as a pivotal figure in the book a few times. I think this adds to her page as it helps people understand the immense impact she had. It was more than collecting books, it was also creating them. TurtlesLiveLong (talk) 16:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh, apologies. My question: How/where do I add this? I don't think listing that book as a resource does it justice. Could a sentence be added to her page as well? Thank you. TurtlesLiveLong (talk) 16:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@TurtlesLiveLong, yes, you can absolutely add a sentence about that to the Belle da Costa Greene article. It's a meaningful fact about her career, and Short Nights of the Shadow Catcher is a reliable source for that information. My guess is that the place to add it is in the second paragraph of her Career section. I did a short search, and you can also source the info to this article by James Balestrieri, which may have some other info that's worth adding (I'm not sure, I've only skimmed da Costa Greene's article and Balestrieri's discussion). Balestrieri is Communications Manager at the Western Spirit: Scottsdale’s Museum of the West, so I'd say that his article is also a reliable source, and there's a bit about her on that museum's website as well, as well as a bit online in this exhibit about her that just opened at The Morgan Library and Museum. If you wanted, you could also add something like "greenlit by Morgan's librarian, Belle da Costa Greene" in the section on The North American Indian in Curtis's article, linking her name there to her WP article. FactOrOpinion (talk) 18:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Article title

If I wanted to break out the Background section of Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota) talking about the three previous cathedrals into their own article, how would you recommend titling it? I don't think they each merit their own article, but one more extended article about the three would work. Historic Cathedrals of Saint Paul, Minnesota? Former Cathedrals of Saint Paul, Minnesota? ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 17:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Not "historic", Darth Stabro. Like very many of the words of any natural language, historic is polysemic, meaning what you here intend it to mean but also something like "having a rich history". I'm too lazy to read the article Cathedral of Saint Paul (Minnesota), but can easily imagine that plenty of people would claim that the current one has a rich history and therefore is "historic". "Former cathedrals of Saint Paul, Minnesota" [note the lowercase "cathedrals" within that] seems good. -- Hoary (talk) 21:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

help open flashdrive

help open flash 2603:800C:2E00:9B93:A560:544:200:39C (talk) 19:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi 2603:800C:2E00:9B93:A560:544:200:39C, if you're having technical issues with your flash drive, you can ask for assistance at the computing reference desk. The Teahouse is focused on Wikipedia editing questions. Best, — Frostly (talk) 20:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

User names

How come when people make accounts they aren't immediately on the search page. And, when they hover over their name, it doesn't show. 1 love nations (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi 1 love nations. It's not clear what you mean by search page. If you provide a specific example of the problem you're experiencing, someone might be able to help you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Horsepower

•  Courtesy link: Horsepower

In the page I find the text "DIN 66036 defines one metric horsepower as the power to raise a mass of 75 kilograms against the Earth's gravitational force over a distance of one metre in one second"

It's been sixty years since I finished High School Physics, but I have a vague feeling that this text should include "measured at the Earth's surface" or similar? Thanks, Chris Greaves 96.30.182.81 (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi IP 96.30.182.81 (Chris). If you're able to support such a change with a citation to a reliable source (as defined by Wikipedia), you can either (1) be WP:BOLD and make the change yourself or (2) be WP:CAUTIOUS by proposing it at Talk:Horsepower. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

What to do about a broken AFD

So recently I was perusing some project pages to see if I needed to delete any weird links, and I discovered that someone on the page Alan Espínola attempted to put it up for deletion, but the template didn't work and no deletion subpage was created. I was thinking about removing it, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't since it would technically be removing a deletion template. I was thinking about contacting the user who attempted to put the article up for deletion, but they are currently indefinitely blocked. What should I do? Gaismagorm (talk) 22:47, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) If you feel the page should be discussed at AfD regardless, you probably can fix the syntax and start the discussion yourself. If you think the page was inappropriately nominated and perhaps was part of the reason why the user who added or the user who dreated the article were blocked, you could ask about it at WP:AN to see what an administrator thinks. FWIW, I've not done a WP:BEFORE for Espínola, but they don't, at least at first glance, seem to meet WP:NOLY. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I myself am kind of against deleting it, since there a dozens of similar Olympic athlete articles just like this. Honestly it's quite shocking how many Olympic athletes, small African locations, and obscure companies have pages with almost no sourcing (or in many cases no sourcing what so ever). The latter two are definitely issues, but I feel like Olympic athletes probably are a little trickier to judge. Gaismagorm (talk) 23:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gaismagorm had the nomination been recent, and not made by a blocked editor, I would have corrected it. Any editor is welcome and able to make a correct, policy based nomination. For the present I have removed the imperfect template (left in 2023) form the article. Thank you for pointing this out. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a lot of vandalism on the Black history page

It mostly comes from new accounts, I'm not sure where to go about this. Maybe there should be a semi-protected status on the page to prevent future vandalism, but im not sure about the procedure on this. Goonsnick (talk) 23:07, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Goonsnick, Black history has seen a total of five edits this year, two of them constructive ones by you. I wouldn't call that "a lot of vandalism". Maproom (talk) 23:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Redirection on a see also

How do you add a redirect page on a see also line? When I do see also | xx | cc (separated and some not there because of it attempting to redirect xx), it does everything right EXCEPT it always leaves the brackets visually. How do I make it so it looks like a normal see-also without the extra brackets? SixDellTisks (talk) 00:04, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi SixDellTisks, welcome to the Teahouse. Your incomplete example makes it unclear what you refer to but maybe you are using {{see also}} and place brackets around the page names. There should be no brackets whether it's redirects or articles. {{see also|xx|cc}} works fine, and both pages are redirects:

See also: xx and cc

PrimeHunter (talk) 00:19, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Election consequences

Hey everyone, I joined because I want to help the effort to continue highlighting Donald Trump’s far right fascism and continuing to portray him as the villain he is on the encyclopedia. If anyone can tell me how I can get started helping, please do. I’m ready.

I was motivated to do this by the outcome of the election, which left me confused and devastated that so many people in my country are racist Nazi garbage. Thanks to Trump’s re-election, black people will be all but literally re-enslaved, women will be reduced to baby producers, and there will be a genocide against trans women. Sorry if I’m rambling, I just haven’t really recovered from Tuesday night and I wanted to introduce myself as someone ready and able to help continue the anti-Trump information campaign. Also, if anyone knows of any supportive communities and services in the Madison, WI area to help me process the severe trauma this has caused me and others, I would be really appreciative. Transresister (talk) 00:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Transresister Regrettably, Wikipedia is not a soapbox, it does not campaign, it expresses no opinion, and cannot be used for the purposes you state. Its role is to record what is said about topics, Trump included, in reliable secondary sources. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

That’s exactly why I came here, because I know that Wikipedia has a reputation for being neutral so people will trust whatever is in the articles here. I’ve read the articles about Trump and I want to help continuing what’s already been worked on so hard. Sourcing isn’t a problem though right? It seems there a lot of sources reporting negatively on Trump and we could just consider those reliable so we repeat whatever they say and make sure things like Fox and Sky News are considered unreliable so none of there reporting makes it into the articles. Transresister (talk) 00:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Transresister Provided any edits you make are neutral, and correctly referenced, are not a political assessment of your own, and are not synthesised original research then your work will be welcome.

Know that this is an area which attracts passion for and against Trump. I have not checked, but it may be covered by discretionary sanctions, limiting unacceptable behaviours. One such behaviour would be edit warring, and sanctions would involve the removal of editing privileges, perhaps indefinitely. As a new editor you may find it wise to learn how to work on Wikipedia in less contentious areas. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:37, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

There are people here who support that fascist? Why aren’t they blocked?? Transresister (talk) 00:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Transresister And there is the issue. Are you able to set that firmly held opinion aside to edit neutrally? If not then I predict a very short time here as an editor. If you can then you edits are welcome. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:42, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

It’s not an opinion, it’s fact. He and the people who support him don’t deserve neutrality. It’s clear reading the articles about him that pretty much everyone here would agree with me. Transresister (talk) 00:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Transresister Please be aware that expression of your personal opinions, even in a venue like this, is dancing very close to unacceptable behaviour, and perhaps has embraced it already.

tl;dr - Be told. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:48, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I see you have been blocked indefinitely. Oh dear, what a pity, never mind. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 00:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Yep. Obvious troll is obvious. Blocked. Bishonen | tålk 00:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

Vacation Express BNA

I did some digging and found Vacation Express operates scheduled seasonal flights from Nashville International Airport to Cancun[10] and Punta Cana[11] on Viva and Allegiant Air respectively that were not listed in the article. How should these destinations be listed? Other airports do not list VE as an airline, but I don't think Punta Cana should be listed under Allegiant, for example, because it is not bookable through Allegiant's website, only VE. So should it even be listed in the first place? King airaglub (talk) 00:48, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I think you may be confusing the difference between a Tour operator and an Airline. A tour operator takes customer bookings, and may hire or commission individual seats or entire (charter) flights from an airline; the airline operates the planes. Some airlines do not take any bookings directly from customers on some (or all) routes, but only from tour operators – kind of a Business-to-business arrangement.

There can be other arrangements, but what you describe does not appear to me to qualify Vacation Express as an airline. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.7.95.48 (talk) 01:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)