Talk:Space force

Mention of Memorandum for U.S. Space Command creation

Since already mentioned on the U.S. Space Command page, and the top is primarlly reserved for space forces, there is no need to mention that here. Perhaps add U.S. Space Command to list of space commands/forces, once it is activated. Garuda28 (talk) 14:29, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I disagree but can never contest this. BlueD954 (talk) 14:35, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

@BlueD954 and Garuda28: - you don't necessarily need to "contest it", you can just discuss it. State your opinion and any support for it. See what others have to say. Some may not agree with you while others just might. You work collaboratively with everyone for the best solution for the article. Give it a try - wolf 09:54, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Integrated Space Cell

This organization appears to serve as the unified organization for Indian military space forces, similar to the other organizations listed on this page. @דוד אהרון 8:, can you please articulate your argument against? Garuda28 (talk) 23:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

This one -> Defence Space Agency Adiiitya (talk) 21:02, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

French independence?

I cannot find any sources that say that France has an independent space force, but many that say that France is creating a space command in its Air Force. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/07/13/french-space-force-macron-announces-creation-space-force-command/1723998001/). Can anyone provide further details?Garuda28 (talk) 19:42, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

The source provided by the IP (https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/le-commandement-de-lespace-devient-ralit-21655) states that the french space command is a part of the Air Force and reports to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. It states that the French Air Force will eventually become the French Air and Space Force. There is no indication in the article of France standing up an independent space force of any kind or a service branch for space. This is consistent with English language sources and would imply that the french space command has a similar status to the former U.S. Air Force Space Command, current Russian Space Forces as an integral part of the Russian Aerospace Forces, or Army Air Corps back in World War II. This is distinct from the U.S. Space Force, which is an independent service branch, equal to the Air Force rather than an integral part of it. Either way, this command is not independent in any sense of the word. Garuda28 (talk) 00:29, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

We have an article for this at Joint Space Command (France). 2407:7000:9B26:2568:C9D1:6FA6:46CB:5B9 (talk) 03:38, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Edit request

space corps redirects here. It should indicate the disambiguation page.

Please add a hatnote

"Space corps" redirects here. For other uses, see Space Corps (disambiguation).

{{redirect|Space corps|other uses|Space Corps (disambiguation)}}

-- 67.70.33.184 (talk) 06:12, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. Instead, I modified the redirect to point to the disambiguation page itself, as an alternative capitalization. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 05:27, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2019

Specify that the US Space Force was established on 20 DEC, 2019.

Possibly also include more information from this email that went out: To the Men and Women of the United States Air Force and United States Space Force:

Today, the President signed the National Defense Authorization Act, and with the bipartisan support of Congress, established a sixth branch of the armed forces – the United States Space Force. The U.S. Space Force, an independent service singularly focused on protecting our interests and security in space, launches the nation into a new era. Combined with the standup of U.S. Space Command in August 2019, our nation is now well postured to preserve and protect space.

Forging a new service is an historic opportunity to deliver world-class capabilities to the American people. As of today, the law re-designates Air Force Space Command as the U.S. Space Force. Space professionals will soon have the opportunity to permanently transfer into the new service, while U.S. Air Force Airmen will continue to support the space mission. More information is available at spaceforce.mil.

Together with our joint teammates and our spacefaring allies and partners, we will establish a service that meets the highest standards of excellence, built on a foundation of integrity and service. We’re proud to serve with you!

Barbara Barrett Secretary of the Air Force

David L. Goldfein John W. Raymond General, U.S. Air Force General, U.S. Space Force Chief of Staff Chief of Space Operations 132.32.201.130 (talk) 18:21, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: Information requested to add is already in the body of the article. Garuda28 (talk) 18:43, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Rfc on title of current Space force article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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It has been proposed to retitle Space force as Space forces of the world in order to redirect the term space force to point to United States Space Force. Discussion leading to this RFC is at Talk:United States Space Force#Disappearing edits. Schazjmd (talk) 15:30, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

(ec) Notifications left on WikiProject Spaceflight and WikiProject Military history. Schazjmd (talk) 15:35, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Do any other nations have a space force?Slatersteven (talk) 15:33, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

There are a number listed in Space force#List of space forces. At this time, only the US Space Force is an independent branch. Schazjmd (talk) 15:37, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes that is my point, there is only one "Space Force".Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

@Slatersteven: Id like to point out that the Russian Space Forces used to be independent, so two countries have had independent space forces. Garuda28 (talk) 16:48, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

True. that leaves us with two. At best, it strikes me there is a degree of OR here. "it does a similar job it must be a space force", no we need an RS saying it is a space force. But there is only one currently "active".Slatersteven (talk) 16:59, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Maybe unintentionally. We can certainly clean up the list in that sense. On that note we do have a third independent space force, which would be the PLA Strategic Support Force (https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2018/09/china-has-space-force-what-are-its-lessons-pentagon/151665/ and https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/21/21032757/trump-space-force-signs-ndaa-military-pay-family-leave). It doesn’t use the name “space force” in the title, but is described as such in multiple sources.

Except I believe its not just a space force.Slatersteven (talk) 17:11, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

It also includes cyber and EW, yes. The point remains though that reliable sources have described it as a space force, however. Garuda28 (talk) 17:12, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Something to consider is that many countries are discussing the idea of independent space forces, so I’d anticipate the idea will catch on very quickly and we’d be having this same discussion on this page very shortly. Garuda28 (talk) 17:07, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Which rather reflects a problem, no one really has any idea what the term in fact means. We have no clear definition. But " analogous to the Space Force" is not saying it is a space force, only that it has some similarities. Nor does putting it in quotations means the source is calling it that. In fact neither of those sources are unequivocal the Chinese have a space force, rather it has an organisation that has some of the operational responsibility of one.Slatersteven (talk) 17:35, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose I don't see a need to do this. We have Navy, Air Force, Army, etc. articles to talk about the general topic, with specific articles for each nation as appropriate. Consistency in that approach would be to change nothing. (Hohum ^@) 16:37, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, an ".. of the world" article would become derailed into a list of forces, rather than an article about what a space force is. (Hohum ^@) 16:41, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose I don’t think this proposed change is wise. The Russian Space Forces used to be an independent branch and there has been discussion on other countries standing up their own forces. Just like Air force does not redirect to United States Air Force, Space force should not redirect to United States Space Force. I’d also like to echo Hohum (talk · contribs)’s argument that this is about the general topic of a space force as a military branch, not a specific country’s service. Garuda28 (talk) 16:46, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The US isn't the only country with a space force, and looking forward more countries (and in fiction - fictional entities) will probably have space forces too. For consistency sake it makes sense to prefix with the country's name country specific forces. Vici Vidi (talk) 07:57, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose given existence of Russian Space Force, eventually Chinese and Indian space forces (virtually certain of it, 85% plus) and others that will emerge. Humans will take war into space just like they've taken it everywhere else. Also argument by Garuda28. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:10, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. There are other nations with space forces, just as there are other nations with air forces. Since the page Air force does not direct to the USAF's page, we should remain consistent.Arkanor (talk) 05:12, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
• Support The "Space Force" is only in use by the United States as the actual title of the space military command. It would be best to have it redirect to the American Space Force. It is also wise to change the name of the current article because "space forces" arent really in use by other countries and could be changed to "Space Branches of the World" or something similar. - AH (talk) 05:48, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
  • So two things: first the U.S. Space Force isn’t a military space command (which would be United States Space Command), but rather a space Force is a military branch or organization dedicated to space in the same sense that an air force or a military branch or organization dedicated to air. Secondly, space forces are in large use by the Russian Space Forces and Chinese People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force. These organizations cannot be ignored in that respect. Garuda28 (talk) 11:44, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

What the various "forces" are called " Space Operations Centre" (at least two) "joint space command" "defense space agency". Not very helpful, but than that is because many of them do not have quote the same roles.Slatersteven (talk) 09:40, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

• Possibly wrong venue if you want to request a move, follow the steps of WP:RM. Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 16:56, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Per WP:RM, The requested moves process is not mandatory, and sometimes an informal discussion at the article's talk page can help reach consensus. There's no compelling reason to use WP:RM#CM instead of an RFC here. A newer editor proposed the change; the purpose of the RFC was to obtain input from more editors than were currently engaged on Talk:United States Space Force. Personally, I agree with the opposes but I didn't want to shut down their suggestion without giving it a fair shot, as other editors might have thought it was a good idea. Schazjmd (talk) 17:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article scope

The latest edits make it a bit more problematic, all but 2(?) of the forces listed are not independent branches. All but 3(?) do not conduct (or even prepare for, as they have zero capacity) space warfare of any kind most being for tracking or surveillance (or even purely admin), not space warfare.Slatersteven (talk) 16:07, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Concur. This article is only about dedicated military space top-level branches. It's been cut down several times before, but keeps coming back. I don't think we have an article listing commands or agencies dealing with military space activities or operations, but that would be a more appropriate place for these. - BilCat (talk) 21:32, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Moved to cut it down based on what I’m seeing discussed here. I may start work on an article like List of air forces for military space organizations. Once that’s started it can be transitioned over there. Garuda28 (talk) 21:37, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Oops, we were both editing the list at the same time. I think a List of military space organizations or similar title would work. - BilCat (talk) 21:47, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree. I’ll work on that this weekend. Garuda28 (talk) 21:54, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Might be a good idea, though I suggest a slightly different framing.Slatersteven (talk) 09:22, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Chinese SSF Case

In the article, it is said that the Chinese Strategic Support Force (SSF) is an independant Space Force. Problem is, the SSF isn't dedicated solely on space missions, it also has missions in cyber warfare, electronic warfare, and psychological warfare. Therefore, I'm not sure we can really consider SSF as an independant Space Force, but rather that the chinese space force is a sub-entity within the SSF. Alpha568 (talk) 18:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

It depends on whether or not reliable, published sources independent of the subject consider it an independent space force. BilCat (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I've removed China as having an independent space force, as the cited source didn't support that claim. Its force is still mentioned in the lead, and covered in the body. BilCat (talk) 21:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

And its back again, even though it is now the Aerospace force, and the source says it's only about space. Slatersteven (talk) 15:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

It is clearly a space force. Chinese state media even refers to it as the PLA Space Force. [1] 2600:100E:B02A:F9C4:7539:7D52:4F07:8B73 (talk) 15:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

It is not clear, as we do not even know how many personal it has, we have no information about it. But I think others need to chip in. Slatersteven (talk) 15:27, 21 April 2024 (UTC)