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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Transcend disillusion (talk | contribs) at 01:03, 1 December 2024 (reference formatting and a reply was added). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Parents' Worship Day

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Parents' Worship Day (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Per WP:INHERITED, this subject has got little coverage only because of its creator Asaram. The coverage of this subject is nil since Asaram's own image is going through a deep crisis for many years. - Ratnahastin (talk) 12:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: Parents Worship Day is a widely celebrated festival in India. It is well recognized by government officials. As stated in the article: It is officially celebrated by the Chhattisgarh Govt in schools and colleges as ordered by the Chief Minister. State government led by the Bharatiya Janata Party made it an official celebration. In 2017 the District collector in Madhya Pradesh issued a notice for schools to celebrate it and so on. There are a lot of independent and reliable references which prove the validity of these statements. This article must not be nominated for discussion just because the image of the initiator i.e. Asaram Bapu is under crisis. Wikipedia is a platform that depends on facts and notability of an article and this festival is being celebrated since more than 10 years in India and it's a compulsory program to attend for thousands of school students all over India. SukritiVarma (talk) 09:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that SukritiVarma (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
  • Keep: Parents Worship Day is day that's being celebrated officially by the government now. This celebration is compulsory in schools as is evident by these references: [1][2] There are lot more such references, I don't see any valid reason why this page was nominated for deletion, it must be retained. SushasiniGupta (talk) 03:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that SushasiniGupta (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
Both of your sources are only saying that this was a government action. Not every day propagated by the government needs to have their own article. Same way we have no article on "Samvidhan Hatya Diwas".[1] CharlesWain (talk) 04:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Parents Worship Day is not just a government action, this is a festival that's quite widely accepted by the masses. Since this is a festival that celebrates emotional bond between parents and children, so people of all religion are accepting it. It cannot be compared with Samvidhan Hatya Diwas. Because this festival is celebrated by masses not only in India but in abroad as well.
1. Even Muslims are celebrating this day as Abba Ammi Ibadat Diwas [2]
2. Sanatan Dharam Sabha Celebrates “Matra Pitra Poojan Diwas” [3]
3. News coverage: More than 10,000 people celebrated this event in Kurla [4] SushasiniGupta (talk) 13:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. The existence of this article, at the present moment, tantamounts to WP:SOAP. CharlesWain (talk) 04:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note - Both of the editors who voted for "keep" above are blatant WP:SPAs and have edited nothing outside this topic.[5][6] CharlesWain (talk) 04:35, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As per WP: Neutral Point of View - Articles with reliable sources must be retained, even if the subject is controversial. Decisions in Wikipedia's Articles for Deletion discussions are determined by the strength of arguments based on policies, such as WP:Notability, rather than the edit count of participants. My reasoning highlights the independent cultural significance of Parents Worship Day and its coverage in reliable sources, demonstrating that the topic's notability extends beyond its association with its creator. SushasiniGupta (talk) 13:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Please don't use an AI platform to write AfD rationales, or copy basic AfD policies we should all already know. Nate • (chatter) 23:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Per nom. No SIGCOV or any long lasting effect. INHERITED is fulfilled. The keep !votes are misleading and do not bring up any credible argument based on our P&Gs. — Benison (Beni · talk) 09:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Parents Worship Day has become a cultural event observed by various schools and communities, reflecting its relevance beyond its initial introduction. The day promotes values of respect and gratitude toward parents, which hold significance in societal traditions. Multiple independent sources have documented its observance, indicating it has received attention outside of its originator’s influence. Removing the article would overlook an established practice that resonates with many individuals and groups. I'mAll4 Wiki (talk) 16:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that I'mAll4 Wiki (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
  • Keep : Per WP:DLC dislike for the subject or Dislike of the creator should not be reason for over-zealous article deletion, the notability of the article should be independently assessed. The nominator of this deletion lists down very plainly their dislike for creator, without arguing on quality or notability of article itself.
If we can find multiple secondary sources WP:DIVERSE covering this event outside any reference to its creator, this article should not be deleted
WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE across years (even after presumed interest waning on creator) is another factor in favor of this article
  1. https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-jammu-redefines-the-day-as-mother-father-worship-day-2584739 authored by Ishfaq-ul-Hassan on DNA India
  2. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/community/parents-worship-day-on-february-14-40462/ on The Tribune India
Nisingh.8 (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They merely noted the subject is controversial and has a shaky public image. Hardly anywhere near WP:IDLI and just stating a known fact. Nate • (chatter) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you @MrSchimpf - i was also merely stating that deletion nomination did not highlight anything apart from creator image and per Wikipedia:INHERITED if creator’s notability cannot be used to lend notability to article, vice-versa also may not apply Nisingh.8 (talk) 09:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your first source is at best a news release as it concerns celebration of this day by Satsang Prachar Sewa Mandal. Your second source does not even have author information and uses a byline, it's very clearly a press release per WP:NEWSORGINDIA. - Ratnahastin (talk) 00:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.hindustantimes.com/ranchi/government-school-students-to-worship-parents-in-jharkhand/story-mBGxvrH4HW33cOOZarLSSL.html
  2. ^ https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/madhya-pradesh-chhindwara-collector-asks-people-to-worship-their-parents-on-valentines-day/545893/

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 20:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect to Asaram#Teachings and views, which is much clearer about the event than this collection of press releases barely holding this article together, and which has nothing at all (I can't even call it a false balance) from those who still wish to celebrate Valentine's Day and their opposition to this event. Nate • (chatter) 21:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    On what basis are you calling independent news coverages as press release?
    If people in India are celebrating Parents Worship Day and government is also making the celebration compulsory in schools, that itself proves how widely this is being adopted in India. It's okay that other people in Western countries or even in India prefer celebrating Valentine's Day but that doesn't mean you are going to delete this page.SushasiniGupta (talk) 16:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of the stories specifically say that very few actual people wanted to celebrate it and it was forced upon them as an administrative or government mandate rather than an organic celebration. One of the stories is literally a state education minister putting out PR for the holiday to cover up the subject's various public issues. There are no counter-sources about how others feel about a holiday being forced upon them when another holiday has existed for hundreds of years to celebrate, and the vast majority of sources here talk about veneration of parents, even if they do completely unforgivable things, over loving others. There's no balance here to be found, just blatant PR for an effort to force a holiday upon people. Nate • (chatter) 17:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    On what basis are you saying it's a forced one, there are lots of references where students became emotional and expressed gratitude for celebrating the unique bond that they have with parents.
    Here is the quote from this reference [7]: "We invited our parents to the school and offered them flowers, worshipped them and finally sought their blessings," said Nishant Mishra, a Class-V student
    "It was really a very touching moment for me. At least these children would learn how important parents are for them," Lipsa Parida, a mother of two boys.
    Since these are quotes, now don't tell me these 5th class kids and their parents are doing PR. they are expressing what they felt and this is covered in news.
    Even Muslims students were touched by this day, another quote[8] Aliya Pathan, a student, said, “In Islam, they say that jannat is beneath your parents’ feet and they should be treated with a lot of respect. So, we decided to celebrate Valentine’s Day by pledging to take care of our parents.” Umair Sheikh, another student, said, “Love comes in so many forms. SushasiniGupta (talk) 14:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Given the detailed history and widespread adoption of Parents' Worship Day across various Indian states and institutions, the topic demonstrates cultural significance and societal impact. The celebration has been officially recognized by state governments such as Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, and Gujarat, and has gained support from educational institutions, NGOs, and community organizations. Independent media coverage highlights its relevance as a family-centric alternative to Valentine's Day. These factors satisfy Wikipedia’s general notability guidelines, making it an important cultural phenomenon worth retaining as an article. Exposethefacts (talk) 02:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Exposethefacts (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
    The Gptzero result for this comment came to be 73% AI generated. Also real world notability=/= Wikipedia notability, you have to prove how this article satisfies Wikipedia guidelines and standards on that. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (Replying after relisting) @Ratnahastin I was trying to broaden up on coverage and notability of event outside its creator, and while below is not comprehensive lists but could eaily find mentions on observance of this event/day at many other places below via simple search -
    Nisingh.8 (talk) 09:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If all you could find are some random no name schools celebrating this day, then I'm afraid you are only corroborating my point that real world notability=/=Wikipedia notability. - Ratnahastin (talk) 10:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For an article to be notable on Wikipedia, there should be reliable, independent sources, and there exists multiple such sources for Parents Worship Day page. Following are few of the reliable sources for your verification. FYI: These are from the most reliable news websites in India such as : BBC, Times of India etc.
    It's official: Chhattisgarh renames Valentines Day as 'Matru-Pitru Diwas'. [1]
    Parents Worship Day: After Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand To Implement Jailed Godman Asaram’s Advice [2][3]
    Chhattisgarh makes Parents Worship Day a compulsory observance in schools on February 14 [4]
    FYI: I hope you got a gist of how this is notable in terms of Wiki policies, please refer the article and go through all the 30+ references present there. This is a discussion not a list of references so I mentioned only 4. SushasiniGupta (talk) 14:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Real World notability and Wiki notability both criteria are met in this particular article since this festival is famous in real world and a lot of reliable ref links exist to suffice the notabilitySushasiniGupta (talk) 16:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Parents' Worship Day Wiki page is supported by independent, reliable and multiple reference links. This is a day that's celebrated across India since the theme has an emotional touch. That's the reason why even though the initiator Asaram Bapu's image is under question currently but this concept has been widely adopted even by government and general public. Just do a Google Search and see tons of references for the enormous acceptance and recognition of this festival.
Those trying to delete this article seem to be doing so just because of initiator's image as mentioned in the comment of the person who initiated the deletion process. But Wiki is not a place to target a page for deletion because the initiator is out of favor.
Let's say a person founded a company or was instrumental in initiating or promulgation of a concept like Tree Plantation Day etc. a concept that is getting wide recognition by public and founder was jailed later, would you delete the company's page as well? Wiki is not a place to target initiatives just because they are from someone whose actions you do not support. Seems an irrelevant discussion and people who saying delete are acting out of emotion not logic. Remember this festival is no longer only associated with its initiator Asaram Bapu, it's now a celebration across countless schools and colleges. Nandwanirajesh (talk) 06:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Nandwanirajesh (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
I'm going to repeat this one more time; there is a non-existent balance with this article where it talks only in glowing terms about the holiday, its inventor, and how it's being used as an alternative to V-Day and being forced upon others without any question or criticism. Local school newsletters are not only non-notable, but also non-neutral, and the fact it is being made compulsory to celebrate when V-Day is a completely voluntary holiday needs to be elaborated on, and at this point this feels like an article that never has any intentions about talking about it neutrally. Finally, stating the inventor has some controversial views is not the reason for deletion here and is supported by BLP and will not be removed. Nate • (chatter) 19:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Apart from references already contained in the article, can find this topic being covered in WP:SECONDARY sources such as research papers[7] which critically analyze the introduction of event and its relevance in South Asian culture among other things. As such find notability criteria met Naveentirthani (talk) 12:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Naveentirthani (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
    But where does this source provide any coverage to this subject? Can you also tell why you never edited any AfD before this one? - Ratnahastin (talk) 12:32, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Here is the quote from the International Journal of Postcolonial Studies: Kothari, R., & Shah, A. (2017). Dil Se: Love, Fantasy and Negotiation in Hindi Film Songs. Interventions, 19(4), 532–549. DOI: 10.1080/1369801X.2017.1294101 [14]
    - "Francesca Orsini mentions that although romantic love – using either the English term or its Indian equivalent, prem – became an established ideal by the beginning of the twentieth century, the patriarchal system has made few allowances for it or the emergence of the modern couple (2006, 33). The substitution of Valentine’s Day with Parents’ Worship Day in the pamphlet above zones in on one of the deepest anxieties in South Asia: the supplanting of the family with the selfishness of the couple. The use of the Sanskrit words “Matr[u] DevoBhava” and “Pitr[u]DevoBhava”, followed by an English translation, is a conscious linguistic strategy to establish both the cultural continuity and antiquity of this goal."
    If you wish to read download the complete journal, you may try this link: [15] or [16]
    Apart from that, I am a contributor to this article, so it is obvious for me to participate in this ongoing discussion. I don't know why you are expecting me to participate in multiple AFD discussions in order to share my views here. I am an editor of this article and I think that reason is more than enough for justifying my participation in this discussion. Naveentirthani (talk) 15:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. According to this it has become an official government recognized holiday in certain parts of India. That would seem encyclopedic.4meter4 (talk) 10:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No mention of any "holiday" there. You are misrepresenting the source. - Ratnahastin (talk) 11:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Just the terminology difference, @4meter4 meant to say government recognized celebration. As mentioned in the source: The Rajasthan government decided to include this in the Department of Education’s school calendar from 2025 and it "must" be celebrated as Matri-Pitri Pujan Day. SushasiniGupta (talk) 11:49, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 01:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am coming in having never heard of this topic, and what an utter headscratcher. Some of these articles are bizarre. The India TV one has some of the strangest prose I've ever seen in what ostensibly is a news article but, perhaps because India is not my topic specialty, reads like The Onion: As per the latest reports the saffron outfit's leaders will be monitoring social networking sites too. Those posting love-you messages on social networking sites will be caught hold of and forced to tie the knot. The article as it stands does not seem to get at the reason for the existence of this observance and is laden with mostly trivial facts. The understanding the references are giving me is that this is an alternate observance favored by BJP-aligned education ministries in a handful of Indian states for religious reasons. That may not be enough to sustain an entire article and, with a handful of the relevant references, may be worth the merge to Asaram because this is clearly a plausible search term. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indian news sources are absolutely horrible for establishing any form of notability. See WP:NEWSORGINDIA and Godi Media. Most of them do not even identify the reporter or author of the article they always tend to have generic bylines. This article is just a promotional POV fork of Asaram#Teachings and views where a more critical commentary exists. Even the users who are supporting keeping this article have not edited Wikipedia for months or years prior or are very inexperienced or have only edited Asaram topic area. This article was also a favourite target of a sockfarm in past too see [[17]. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I'm familiar with NEWSORGINDIA. Really, once you peel back the layers of promotional "news" content, you have an observance that does exist and has been put on state school calendars, and that's about it. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 14:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, then let's focus on those references which are considered as WP:GREL by WP:RSPSOURCES
    • BBC News: As per WP:RSPBBC, BBC sources are considered generally reliable:
    This reference[18] has 'Parent's Worship Day' in India section.
    •The Indian Express: WP:INDIANEXP states: The Indian Express is considered generally reliable under the news organizations guideline.
    Almost every year, this reliable news channel has covered Parents Worship Day grand celebrations or govt. guidelines:
    In 2012: V-Day to be Matri-Pitra Divas in Chhattisgarh schools. Chief Minister Raman Singh announced that all government and private schools in Chhattisgarh will observe Parents Worship Day on February 14 every year. [19]
    In 2015: Amdavadis celebrate Parents Worship Day.[20]
    In 2017: Collector in Madhya Pradesh asks people to worship their parents on Valentine’s Day. This picture of govt. issued noticed is also attached in this news.[21]
    In 2020: On Valentine’s Day, ‘Matru-Pitru Pujan Diwas’ for Gujarat schools as per District Educational Office circular.[22]
    • The Atlantic: The Atlantic is considered generally reliable. It mentions - another Hindu group is once again running a campaign to replace Valentine’s Day with “Parents’ Worship Day”[23]
    I have just mentioned a few of the sources which are WP:GREL and skipped a lot other references which are WP:MREL.
    This list is more than enough to justify WP:Notability of this article. SushasiniGupta (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)— Note: An editor has expressed a concern that SushasiniGupta (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]


  • Keep: Concur with the comment made above about keeping this post. This festival seems to have gained widespread popularity in Indian population:
State of Chhatisgarh declared February 14 as "Matru-Pitru Diwas" or "Parents' Worship Day" instead of Valentine's Day: [8][9]
Madhya Pradesh: Chhindwara collector asks people to worship their parents on Valentine’s Day [10][11]
Jharkhand: As per State education minister Neera Yadav's directive, Government school students to worship parents[12]
Gujarat: Education department tells schools to organize 'parents worship' on February 14[13]
A lot more celebration details can be found[14]Transcend disillusion (talk) 19:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article should not be deleted since this festival is being celebrated at a bigger scale — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transcend disillusion (talk • contribs) 18:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC) — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Transcend disillusion (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff)[reply]
  1. ^ https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Its-official-Chhattisgarh-renames-V-Day-as-Matru-Pitru-Diwas/articleshow/46151391.cms
  2. ^ https://www.outlookindia.com/national/parents-worship-day-after-chhattisgarh-jharkhand-to-implement-jailed-godman-asar-news-305893
  3. ^ https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-38956151
  4. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20131018015852/http://www.merinews.com/article/chhattisgarh-makes-parents-worship-day-a-compulsory-observance-in-schools-on-february-14/15881586.shtml%26cp
  5. ^ https://www.indiatoday.in/information/story/what-is-parents-worship-day-and-why-it-is-celebrated-on-valentine-s-day-in-india-1768935-2021-02-13
  6. ^ https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/parents-worship-day-on-feb-14-from-next-session/articleshow/107213588.cms
  7. ^ http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1369801X.2017.1294101
  8. ^ http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/feb-14-is-parents-day-in-chhattisgarh/article6869015.ece
  9. ^ http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/vday-to-be-matripitra-divas-in-chhattisgarh-schools/911388/
  10. ^ https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/madhya-pradesh-chhindwara-collector-asks-people-to-worship-their-parents-on-valentines-day/545893/
  11. ^ http://indianexpress.com/article/india/collector-in-madhya-pradesh-issues-notice-askspeople-to-worship-their-parents-on-valentines-day-4517818/
  12. ^ https://www.hindustantimes.com/ranchi/government-school-students-to-worship-parents-in-jharkhand/story-mBGxvrH4HW33cOOZarLSSL.html
  13. ^ https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/surat/education-dept-tells-schools-to-organise-parents-worship-on-feb-14/articleshow/74035192.cms
  14. ^ https://avenuemail.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/The-Avenue-Mail-Feb-15.pdf
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