Talk:Curse of Tippecanoe

George Bush

As we all know, bush died of an attempted assassination attempt and is currently living! This makes perfect sense and I don't see anything wierd here! Reda84100 (talk) 15:35, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

It's been fixed so it's good Reda84100 (talk) 08:56, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Untitled

Go ahead. I thought it was just Tippecanoe's curse.

There is a MAJOR error in this page...John Tyler did NOT die in office. I assume the author of this page ment Zachary Taylor, as Taylor did die in office and the dates listed are those of Taylor's term in office. Similar names, VERY different people. Very simple research could have prevented this error.

Last Sentence

"Dodich also believes that in 2000, it was again an earth sign, and it won't happen again for 600 years, meaning Bush is at the end of the curse."

'It' occurs twice and seems to refer to a different subject each time. I'm not sure what the poster meant, so I can't edit it, but this needs to be rewritten: as it stands it really doesn't make sense and in fact the wording is contradictory to what in context the poster seems to be trying to say. CFLeon 10:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the year 2000 has already passed. Did the earth sign appear or not?

Mark Dodich???

I understand that it is not off-topic to bring in an astrologer's theory in a pretended curse, but the question is: Is Mark Dodich a relevant astrologer, or is he just one more between the thousands that look at the stars for influence in human life? I know he appears a lot in Google, but they're all pages in which he collaborates. So, is he considered a prominent figure in the circle of astrologers? Otherwise I wouldn't put it here (just because Snopes quotes him it doesn't means that Wikipedia has to copy the mention). 200.55.112.47 15:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC) Nahuel

"last president of the united states"

I can't seem to find a source for this statement outside of wikipedia (not obviously, anyway) and, given recent world events, it seems to me, at least, to be a potential instance of political propaganda/fear-mongering. Given that it doesn't seem too damaging, it seemed reasonable to allow it to stay in the article, at least for the short term, but someone more familiar with wiki policies can feel free to change that. Matthew Brown, posting from 207.171.180.101

I removed it. ~a (user • talk • contribs) 20:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Drastic trimming

I drastically trimmed the article [1] for the following reasons:

• Tenskwatawa was not defeated at Tippecanoe. Tecumseh was.
• All the info about Regan and Bush has nothing to do with anything. They didn't die in office. Putting that Regan has some surgery and bush almost choked on a pretzel is silly and irrelevant.
• Assassination attempts of other Presidents also have nothing to do with anything.
• The astrology stuff is nonsense.

The result is an article that is more tightly focused on the so-called curse, rather than spinning various hypothetical situations.--JW1805 (Talk) 01:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

You're misinformed about the Battle of Tippecanoe. Tecumseh was not at that battle; it was Tenskwatawa's defeat. —Kevin 12:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more with JW1805, Reagan probably deserves a small mention because he supposedly broke the curse, but adding Bush is nonsense. Why not add all the other presidents who did not die in office and rename this article List of Presidents of the United States? --Maarten1963 (talk) 22:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The pretzel is back in the article. I agree it's silly and irrelevant.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

2000 election

The other way to interpret the curse is that every president elected in a year divisible by 20 will suffer some life-threatening calamity. So Reagan might not have dispelled the curse. Bad news for the president elected in 2000... Brutannica 22:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

How so? Reagon was elected in 1980, which is divisible by 20 (1980 / 20 = 99) Sinsdepth 22:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if the curse is why Al Gore won't run for President again? MMetro 19:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Another way to interpret the curse is that every president elected on the twenty year cycle would die in a "schocking" or uncommon manner. For example the Presidents who died in office caused a shock and Reagan's diagnosis with Alzheimer's disease was uncommon.

Reagen may have lived but he did NOT make it though his term. Reagen was kicked out of office meaning the first president to make it through their term would be president Bush. Bush was still alive and in office on 1-21-2009 when Obamba took office which breaks the pattern. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.70.31.100 (talk) 20:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC) The above is so very, very wrong... I think you mean Nixon, who was kicked out of office (technically, he resigned), and Reagen served for all eight years (unless you want to count when he was having surgery and GHWBush was President, but that'll just open a whole can of worms). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.26.10 (talk) 17:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Failed attempts

I removed the line "There was an assasination attempt also made against President George W. Bush In Tbilisi, Georgia on May 10, 2005, when a grenade thrown at the President failed to go off.". I feel there is a fundamental difference between a failed assassination attempt where the target was wounded, and one where s/he was not; as such, Reagan belongs on the list, Bush currently does not. We have no idea how many countless plots have failed (and there are probably a few which have succeeded that we've missed out on, too). Instead, I'd support a page, "List of failed assassination attempts", or something along those lines, which would include, for example, the two failed attempts on Ford's life, etc. samwaltz 01:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, there also were failed attempts on the lives of Theodore Roosevelt and Harry Truman. 71.8.222.86 22:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Reagan breaking Curse

Well from what I learned on a tour in D.C. i think this should be added.

Well apparently all the other presidents when they were, I think, inaugurated they faced East, but when Reagan did it he faced West because he said "he didn't want to have his back facing the majority of his country" and this supposedly broke the curse. Should it be added? I have no sources because, as I said, I learned it on a bus tour in DC and I may have the facts a bit wrong, but I think it's better then just saying "The pattern ended with Reagen." This adds a little more to the legend and I think it should be added as it IS part of the legend.

Sounds ridiculous. Maybe if you find a source, but we can't really know until Bush dies or leaves office. Be sure to sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Reywas92^{TalkReview me} 02:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't put it past Reagan to say something like that, but the real reason he switched sides is that the view from the West Front is absolutely breathtaking, while the one from the East is nothing special.--Ten-pint (talk) 19:42, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Regan didn’t not want to not face the rest of America, he didn’t want to turn his back on his home country, California. Also, he did have an assassination attempt. So he was not exactly breaking the curse, he more just got good luck. Crazycasle (talk) 14:08, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Objectivity

The use of the word "ridiculous" is a personal slant on the information presenteed in this article. It should be removed in order to let the reader make his own judgements. However, the phrase "most Americans believe that this is" or "most believe..." etc. could be put in the artical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.160.108.190 (talk) 17:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I changed it to give the reader an impartial view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.160.108.190 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There was no assassination attempt on George W. Bush

I won't change it, because I'm a fairly junior person on Wikipedia, but George W. Bush was in Sarasota, Florida on 2001-09-11. Even the entry itself says Flight 93 was either going to hit the White House or the Capitol Building. If the intent was unclear and the target was not even in the area, how can it be said to be an assassination attempt? Mutatron (talk) 07:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. I was just rephrasing a previous edit, but George Bush himself must be included because he was elected in a year ending in a 0.Mathgod333 (talk) 03:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

No longer relavent

Well, W. Bush survived all eight years, and a new President is serving in the White House, so any discussion of this is now defunct, except for historical oddity sake. Of course, you could argue that Bush didn't really win the election in 2000, so that's why he survived... or his horrible poll numbers, which effectively killed his Presidency two years early, counts. Anyway... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.26.10 (talk) 18:01, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Am I the only one who things it bizaare that the curse started with Harrison (elected in '40) and was broken by Reagen (President No. 40)? Plus the fact that the number 40 has big significance in the Bible and all(wandered the desert for 40 years), which is probably the only reason I noticed this coincidence in the first place. Scary...:)Masternachos (talk) 01:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Franklin Roosevelt

Franklin Roosevelt was not elected in 1940, he was re-elected in 1940 so technically he does not belong in the same category as say Kennedy or Reagan. I would remove it but I don't have a username so it would probably thought of as spam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.86.55.207 (talk) 03:54, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Roosevelt is accepted as being in line for the curse because he won the election that occurred in 1940 - no weight is given to whether it was an election or reelection. Anyone who wins a US Presidential election during a year that ends with a zero is in line for the curse. The death does not even have to be in the same term as the election; Abraham Lincoln was elected in 1860 but wasn't assassinated until after his reelection in 1864. – jaksmata 13:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Broken

I once had a history professor who said that the Curse was broken by our advances in medicine, because Reagan would not have survived his injuries even 20 years before.--Ten-pint (talk) 19:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Accuracy of Content: There are mistakes in the description about the Battle of Tippicanoe. While it is true the American Army was there to confront the indians, the indians were the aggressors and initiated hostilities by attacking the American Army in the early morning hours. It is true the Army under Harrison won the battle, the indians inflicted heavy losses on the American far higher than their own. Additionally, Tecumsah and his brother, the Profit, did not advocate a defensive posture. They preached war and aggression. What we did to to the Native Americans was a sad part of our history, but we should not forget that it was a war with aggressors on both sides. Tecumsah and his brother both advocated war and the killing of americans.Exelant (talk) 00:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

You have four different sorts of "aggression" in this story: 1) General westward movement of US settlers and taking of Native American lands (US populace) 2) Who actually launched the war in question (Native Americans) 3) Who was waging an offensive campaign (US Army) 4) Who launched the tactical offense on the battlefield (Native Americans) 100.37.119.16 (talk) 17:29, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Roosevelt 1940

Surely the article published about the curse in 1940 would not have had "1940 - Roosevelt" at the end if it was published prior to Election Day? I'm sure this page used to say that it had "1940 - ???" which would make a lot more sense. If it can be confirmed, it should be changed.125.237.45.89 (talk) 08:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

It did say "1940 - ??????" until it was changed here. I can't find any online archive of that newspaper to verify it, but since no reason was given for the change, I'm going to change it back. This is the original edit that added the Oakland Tribune reference. – jaksmata 13:55, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in the origins section

The origins section is poorly constructed, chronologically, as well as being ambiguous. Tecumseh's primary complaint was with the Treaty of Fort Wayne, which was signed by certain tribes, but which excluded others from the process. Harrison did use liquor to attempt to sway the outcome of the treaty, but in general Tecumseh believed that native land could only be traded away if all tribes were in agreement.

Also, the curse was a result of Tecumseh's brother Tenkswatawa starting a conflict by attempting to have Harrison murdered in his sleep the night before he and Harrison were to meet to discuss a rise in hostilities. The attempt was unsuccessful, the natives were routed, and Harrison had the native confederacy village Prophetstown burned. There was only one remaining inhabitant of the village when Harrison's army arrived, an elderly woman too old to travel. The curse was in retaliation for destruction of the village. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crumas (talk • contribs) 15:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

So fix it. Esrever ^(klaT) 16:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

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HIstory Channel discusses "Zero-year Curse" on 'Presidential Prophecies'

I just saw this program again, so I added it as a reference... [ref]Presidential Prophecies, History Channel[/ref] - Brad Watson, Miami (talk) 18:08, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Still with Bush jr?

The point of not including George W Bush and for that matter Ronald Reagan is that the fact that they survived assassination attempts is completely irrelevant to the curse ... because EVERY president is now subject to assassination attempts. Bush is therefore not a special case of a '0' year President who happened to survive, he's a normal case of a President who survived all the attempts on his life, as did Truman, Ford, Carter, Clinton and Obama. Reagan was actually shot, so I aknowledge he's in a slightly different category. Silas Maxfield (talk) 10:47, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

@Silas Maxfield: Was there never an assassination attempt on a non-"cursed" president prior to the failed attempt on Reagan? Are there any reliable sources that have drawn the same connection (or explicit absence of a connection) that you have? Without sources, it's original research. - 151.132.206.26 (talk) 20:06, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

The last two paragraphs

The end of the article currently has these last two paragraphs:

The next president in the line of the curse, George W. Bush in 2000, was unharmed in an assassination attempt in 2005. He finished out his final term on January 20, 2009 and survives to the present day. It is widely assumed today that the curse has been broken by Reagan surviving his assassination attempt. [Emphasis mine.] (Question to the original author: what does "survives to the present day" mean and how is it relevant?)

The only president who died in office without being elected in a "cursed" year was Zachary Taylor, who was elected in 1848 and died in 1850. However, Taylor also fought against Tecumseh, during the War of 1812, and is considered by some as having also been "killed" by the curse. [Emphasis mine.]

I don't think the second paragraph above belongs at all but I'll leave it to greater minds than mine to delete it. (I don't mind correcting minor errors like dates and names but I just don't like to delete other people's work, even if it's silly.) This article is at other places in danger of irrelevancy. People talk about "The Curse" like it's an actual thing and when they do that it makes the article read like something out of the Weekly World News. 209.179.40.208 (talk) 18:31, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

“Question to the original author: what does ‘survives to the present day’ mean and how is it relevant?”
Not the original author here, but that just means Bush still isn’t dead. It would probably be sufficient to say he outlived his presidency; pointing out that he’s lived now seven years beyond it just emphasizes the point that the curse hasn’t killed him, I suppose (albeit emphasis that is not here supported by reliable sources).

I agree with your point about the other paragraph, and I’m removing it as OR until a source is cited making that connection. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 03:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

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'2 assassination attempts on Bush junior'

In the first paragraph it is stated that Bush junior survived 'at least 2 assassination attempts'. one of the two given is when a live grenade was thrown in his direction with the intent to kill, so that is fair. the other is the famous shoe incident. this is clearly not an assassination attempt, it was a political statement and the shoe was never intended to kill him. thus it does not qualify. I haven't removed the reference but someone should, its ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.184.195 (talk) 21:52, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

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Title "Presidents elected in years divisible by 20"

The way the title is worded, you have left off 1800 and 1820. Yes, I see that those years were before 1840. Carlm0404 (talk) 19:16, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Trump had COVID-19 and this year fits within the 20-years timeframe

Trump getting the coronavirus known as COVID-19 this year should be entered in the table as the next curse. It is 2020, thus fits in the every 20 years timeframe.

The table does not necessary have to be the death of any US Presidents, as seen in the table, the last two, Reagan and Bush did survived assassination attempts and did not die in office, plus Harrison had Typhoid, Harding had heart attack, and Roosevelt had Cerebral hemorrhage, thus the cause is not always about assassination, therefore COVID-19 would count.

While Trump is recovering from COVID-19, it does count as part of the Curse. 2A00:23C4:4896:FB01:C11C:6188:C0F:A4 (talk) 12:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:4896:FB01:C11C:6188:C0F:A4 (talk) 12:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• No, it doesn't, because the curse is said to apply to presidents who were elected in years ending in 0 -- 1840, 1860, 1880, etc. Trump would have to win the 2020 election for the curse to even theoretically apply to him; so far, he has only won the 2016 election. (And that's assuming that (a) there ever was a curse in the first place, and (b) Reagan and Bush 43's survival didn't make the issue moot.) Other presidents suffered serious health problems during their terms -- Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, and Dwight Eisenhower had a heart attack, for example -- but neither of them was elected in a year ending in 0 nor did they die while serving as president, so they don't get mentioned in this article. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:29, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

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"not die in office" under Applicable presidents

Stating President Bush will "not die in office" seems a bit morbid. Perhaps removing the parenthetical statement all together would be better.

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2021

In the chart in the "applicable presidents" section, it says that George W Bush "will not die in office". Since his term is over, it should read "did not die in office" 24.130.66.103 (talk) 07:41, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 15:04, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2021

So... it lists George W Bush's cause of death in the chart as "attempted assassination" even though he's still alive???47.20.177.163 (talk) 13:54, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Run n Fly (talk) 16:06, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Let's use critical thinking skills here, friend. The column header is "cause of death". The cause of death for George W. Bush, a person who is still alive, is attempted assassination. So, George W. Bush is still alive, and his cause of death is attempted assassination. What do you think stands out here? 47.20.177.163 (talk) 16:39, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Joe Biden

Maybe it will activate this time, maybe ONLY this time :) Phuloc2007 (talk) 18:09, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Talk pages aren't the place for political commentary. This kind of comment is why "silly" pages like this are removed for not being worth the trouble. Jerodast (talk) 22:42, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Rumors are mostly circulating in Social Media, unless the death is formally announced it dont deserve mention in the body of the article or here.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:03, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2021

It states multiple times in here that Joe Biden was president in 2020. This is false. He was inaugurated in Jan of 2021. Trump’s presidency would have fallen under the curse of Tippecanoe. 2601:C6:CD80:3840:96C:ACF0:D214:814C (talk) 03:18, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: I'm fairly certain that 2020 refers to the year of the presidential race and not the year of inauguration, in which case 2020 would be correct. The confirmation of presidency and the inauguration of presidency are mutually exclusive; hence the term incumbent. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 04:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

As it says at the top of the article, the curse "subjects" are those ELECTED on 20-year marks. The bit about William Henry Harrison says "elected in 1840"; in a list like this, it is safe to assume a parallel structure, and interpret the subsequent years given as years of election as well. The table below also labels the column "Elected", not "Inaugurated". So, the Biden information is accurate about election year, as with the others. For instance, Reagan was not president in 1980 but was elected in 1980.Jerodast (talk) 23:37, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Relevant statistics

Election year final digit	Number of elections	Died that term	Died later term	Total died in office	Ratio died in office
0	12	5	2	7	.58
2	12	0	1	1	.08
4	11	2	0	2	.18
6	12	0	2	2	.17
8	12	1	0	1	.08

So 58% of Presidents elected in YYY0 died in office, a percentage noticeably bigger than the next largest (18% of those elected in YYY4). Perhaps it is nevertheless not statistically significant given the small sample size; in any case it is still invalid as data dredging. Perhaps a motivated statistician has already addressed this in a citable source; either as an example in a textbook, or as one of those humorous squibs academic journals occasionally offer their readership for light relief. jnestorius^(talk) 14:32, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

That's a good point that the writer who couldn't get any presidential historians to comment on it (because there'd be nothing to say) might've been better off asking around for statisticians to see if anyone wanted to goof around with the numbers for an hour :) Jerodast (talk) 05:06, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Death in 4th of July

The statement that both Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe both died on July 4th is incorrect. John Adam's and Jefferson both died on July 4th. The sentence should be removed. Thanks. 2600:1010:B01F:3F25:ED06:1B70:115A:3D72 (talk) 02:41, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Jefferson, Adams and Monroe each died on the 4th of July (Jefferson and Adams in 1826, Monroe in 1831). The statement is correct and will not be removed. Adams is not mentioned here because he was not elected in a "zero" year, as were the others. General Ization ^Talk 02:49, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Harrison

The article's first mention of "Harrison" does not give any indication as to who this "Harrison" might be, nor does it link to William Henry Harrison 81.105.46.48 (talk) 20:22, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Just fixed it and linked it! Pacamah (talk) 17:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Correction:

Three former presidents elected in applicable years (Ronald Reagan in 1980, George W. Bush in 2000 and Donald Trump in 2020) did not die in office. 2600:6C5E:117F:7346:7589:D50D:16E6:8B7F (talk) 12:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

did you mean joe biden? 99.27.106.23 (talk) 18:09, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Richard Nixon Resignation

If someone loses an election in a year divisible by 20 but they later win the presidency, they will resign from office later in their term. Richard Nixon lost the election of 1960 but later won in 1968 and again in 1972, but resigned in 1974 as a result of the Watergate Scandal. Rndlkb10 (talk) 21:50, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Biden survived 2020

Well, he caught the rerun of the Spanish flu, but he's survived until December 2024 and doesn’t seem like he’ll die in the next month or so. Maybe the curse has been broken by a bigger curse. CloudyDayJoy (talk) 22:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)