Talk:2024 Magdeburg car attack

Identity of perpetrator

It's probably him, right? According to Der Spiegel, the perpretator's name is Taleb A: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/magdeburg-news-autofahrer-faehrt-in-menschenmenge-behoerden-gehen-von-anschlag-aus-a-58a3c255-9a4b-45a8-8e65-8ceac63477cd. Maxeto0910 (talk) 00:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is the perpetrator parameter not added to infobox? 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

"It's probably him, right?" Based on what? You found a random tweet from 2017 with an image of a passport of a guy with the same name? Brandon Downes (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Same name, same age, same nationality. Die Welt also connected this X account to him: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article254939378/Anschlag-auf-Weihnachtsmarkt-Arzt-Islamgegner-seit-2006-in-Deutschland-Das-wissen-wir-ueber-den-Attentaeter-von-Magdeburg.html. Of course we'll have to wait until there is more clarity. However, it's still interesting. Maxeto0910 (talk) 00:43, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

If you have enough reliable sources, be WP:Bold and update the infobox. The twitter connection may be WP:Original but the name is widely sourced. 207.96.32.81 (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

It's him: [1]. Saudi atheist, right winger, AfD and Musk fan. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 00:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The driver of the car was subsequently arrested. He was an anti-Christian Muslim. 190.219.101.225 (talk) 00:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

From what is being reported and if the twitter account is his then this is nonsense... he was a refugee on the basis that he was literally an ex-muslim who was critical of Islam Brandon Downes (talk) 01:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Ofc it's him. Nobody grants asylum to Saudis in Germany, unless they are gay or ex-Muslim. He even practices as a doctor. That's not your typical refugee. 2A02:3038:20A:EFE7:B8BB:856D:9672:D927 (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Nope, he hates muslims, and is pro Israel and supports AfD and thinks Germany wants to "Islamize Europe". Seems to be some sort of Case of internalized hatred and self radicalization and then acting upon his hatred. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just cause he’s islamophobic doesn’t mean the attack is due to Islamophobia Cherry567 (talk) 09:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Source? Trust me bro? Bassimoo7 (talk) 22:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Off topic EvergreenFir (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
so he killed christians to fight against muslims? You're logical 2A00:A040:191:D29A:99C5:7CA1:2FC:7F5A (talk) 16:38, 21 December 2024 (UTC) Did he attack a church service, or a commercial fun-fair that is rejected as blasphemous by most Christian fundamentalists? You'll be hard-pressed to find any truly devout Christian on a German Christmas market - the majority of adults go there to get drunk, and there's more secularized Muslim immigrants to be found on these events than "real" (fundamentalist) Christians. When you consider the fact that most of the people on the Magdeburg Christmas market go to church at most twice a year (being average Germans from a region with a long-standing tradition of disregard for religious authorities), and the fact that the perp believed Germany was subverted into denying its Christian roots and needed to be "punished" for that, it makes a lot of sense why he chose this target (beyond it simply being the best opportunity to kill a lot of "dhimmis"). Even more so since commodification of religious events is something that a person who grew up in the KSA is deeply unfamiliar with - the most the Saudi regime permits in this regard is selling small vials of Zamzam water during haj. Whereas the average German Christmas market is dominated by mulled-wine stands and tchotchke sellers (with many, perhaps the majority of the latter falling into the new-age/"spiritualism" category these years; also note the left stand on the photo linked, Zum heiteren Christkind, which literally translates as "The Jolly Baby Jesus" but figuratively "The Tipsy Baby Jesus"). The Catholic Church in Germany, as well as the local Evangelicals, have criticized these events for years as bordering on blasphemy by turning a holy day into just another opportunity for commerce (and they have Scriptural precedent for that opinion). In Magdeburg, specifically, some years ago it was decided to expand the "Christmas Market" with a "World of Lights" display to attract more people with non-Christian backgrounds, just like in other German towns the "Christmas Markets" were re-named into "Winter Markets" to appear less exclusive. This development was a perennial hot topic for criticism by the right-wing influencers whom Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen followed on social media, and it would be entirely unsurprising (to those who are knowledgeable about Christianity in contemporary Germany and the New Right's relation to it) if it turns out that this self-declared atheist - who was at the same time anything but a secularist - cited this discussion as one of his motives for the attack. 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 21:01, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2024

Full name of the perpetrator: Taleb Jawad Al Abdulmohsen. source 2003:100:3700:8C00:13C:606C:5427:FCA4 (talk) 01:56, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2024 (2)

Please add to the infobox:

Motive: Anti-German sentiment

and add the category Category:Anti-German sentiment in Europe. 95.91.212.226 (talk) 05:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

His sentiment was not against "Germans" pro toto, but against supposed "sell-out traitors of Germany", of whom he believed to be a conspiracy that had subverted the country. He loved to cite German right-wing extremists approvingly; his ideology fits like a glove with that of PEGIDA. He is, if anything, pro-German (albeit not in a way that approved of democratic Germany). 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 20:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Right-wing terrorism

So this person was an atheist ex-Muslim who was upset about the treatment of ex-Muslim asylum seekers in Germany, and as such made tweets calling for the widespread slaughter of and terrorism against German citizens in response to them not helping asylum seekers from his home country enough. Wikipedia editors classify this motive as "right-wing terrorism," because as we all know, German right-wing extremists are primarily known for their fanatical support of Saudi Arabian asylum seekers. This is a laughable political spin. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 09:19, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Several well-known functionaries of the German far-right party AfD and its right-wing extremist youth organization Junge Alternative followed the attacker's X channel. --2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:06, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

And so because someone followed him on social media this is sufficient, in your opinion, to classify the attack as "right-wing terrorism" even though the attacker was clearly motivated by mistreatment of asylum seekers by the German government, which few reasonable people would classify as a right-wing position in Germany. This doesn't make sense. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 10:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

His video appearance: [2]. RAIR Foundation USA (Rise Align Ignite Reclaim) is a grassroots activist organization comprised of everyday Americans leading a movement to reclaim our Republic from the network of individuals and organizations waging war on Americans, our Constitution, our borders and our Judeo-Christian values. [3] This guy was an ultra right winger for sure. --2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:20, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

So he drives his car into a crowd of Germans at a Christmas market after posting in Arabic about the need to slaughter German citizens online and a war against Germany for their refusal to help his countrymen gain entry into Germany, and because he's made statements against Islam this classifies him as "right-wing." Yeah, no, sorry, this is ridiculous and you people are coping. 2600:4040:4938:6500:1D40:2AA9:8A6F:592C (talk) 10:28, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Typical right wing terrorist profile if you ask me: [4]. Also a proponent of Greater Israel views. 2A02:3038:204:BAC6:5F12:41D6:6D6F:CC92 (talk) 10:40, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Breivik copycat, in a nutshell. Whether he read Breivik's "2083" manifesto is a very interesting question, but I am not sure whether we will ever get a good answer to that, since it is unlikely to be a focus in the investigation. It is only certain that he is a very publicly outspoken adherent of the "Great Replacement" narrative in precisely the same form as Breivik was (with a "cabal" of "bleeding-hearts" as "fifth column"), and that he has the exactly same craving to "serve justice" to the "traitors of the Occident", and that he holds similar views regarding Israel's role as a "bulwark state" against the "Muslim deluge", and that he was in Germany already when Breivik committed his crimes and was exposed to European reporting thereof, and that he only became a radical with a desire for murder some time afterwards, and that like Breivik he invented a "secret organization" to kill "traitors who sell out to Islam" with himself as the only demonstrable member. 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 20:13, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Ultra right winger, mass murderer and "christian values" defender Breivik shot 69 kids who were as European as him. But "muh Islam". 2A02:3038:201:7EE4:B469:EBE5:1175:5CBB (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

---

Alleged?

is there any doubt that the man they arrested at the scene was the perpetrator? Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The courts will decide his guilt. Until then his crime is alleged. WWGB (talk) 14:12, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The crime is not "alleged" but extensively documented on photos and videos. What the courts will decide is whether it is classed as terrorism, or "simple" multiple first-degree murder, or as manslaughter under the influence of mind-altering substances (police confirm he used some unspecified "mind-altering drug", before the attack, but probaby after acquiring the car).

If you have evidence that the person arrested is not the perpetrator, please present your WP:RS. Or maybe you confuse "alleged" with "accused"? 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 19:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Either one should work per MOS:ALLEGED: "alleged and accused are appropriate when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people awaiting or undergoing a criminal trial" ^Falling_Gravity 23:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The crimes are indeed alleged. He's not been found guilty yet. His documented actions of driving the car into a crowd are not alleged though. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:01, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Motive Islamophobia

The Motive is clearly Islamophobia. "Germany wants to Islamize Europe."

"Syrian jihadists are receiving asylum in Germany"

A few minutes before the attack, he posted more videos. In one of them, Abdulmohsen said: "The police themselves are the criminals. In this case, I hold the German nation, I hold the German citizens responsible"

Abdulmohsen declared that Angela Merkel deserved the death penalty for her secret criminal project of Islamizing Europe.

This Guy thought Germany and German police were protecting "Jihadists". Midgetman433 (talk) 15:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there a source for that being the motive or is it your conclusion, i.e. WP:OR? It is quite obvious that the guy has something against Islam (and a couple other things), but as far as I can see German police are still investigating. 2001:2020:337:DF3D:7D64:1291:1EB4:3383 (talk) 15:42, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

He wrote many of these posts right before he did the attack. Midgetman433 (talk) 15:47, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Here is a source[5].VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:44, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just because he’s islamophobic doesn’t mean this is why he attacked Cherry567 (talk) 15:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Attack time was at least 19:02

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c1j08p44w9kt?post=asset%3Afa265a31-c674-406b-a54a-827975997230#post 2A00:11B1:101F:DDAD:FC59:C031:1498:3313 (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:01, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Canvassing?

Seems to be a weird flux of drive-by comments from IPs who are just complaining Trade (talk) 17:07, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Unsurprising given that the perp's motive was basically straight out of Breivik's "2083", up to and including a fabricated "secret organization" to combat "dhimmitude" by murdering "traitors", and this of course sets people who support these notions into damage-control mode.

Not that straight if people are too afraid to include the motive in the infobox. Unless, you want to?--Trade (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

"Musk claimed that "Only the AfD can save Germany" in a post on X"

That was before it turned out that the perpetrator was a AfD and Musk fanboy, and AFAIR even before the attack itself. It should be changed accordingly.

As it is written, it seems to be a reaction after the attack, and after the perp's social-media history became public. (IIRC Musk gave the cited statement before the attack, and afterwards reacted by accusing Chancellor Scholz of lame-duckism, and then the perp's political leaning and social-media habits were revealed and I am not aware if Musk has said anything on the issue since - which is probably wise, since the perp repeatedly cited Musk to "justify" his murderous agenda.) 2A0A:A547:22A4:0:C9BE:3FA8:1520:B410 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The opinion of Musk, a private citizen, is irrelevant. Removed from article. Please gain consensus before re-adding. WWGB (talk) 01:29, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I support the inclusion of Musk's opinion, he is a prominent billionaire enterprenuer, political donor, activist and conspiracy theorist. I mean, come on, he is one of the richest and most politically powerful men in the world. His opinion is included in 2024 British riots too. Theofunny (talk) 15:22, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I also support including Musk’s comments. They’ve been extensively covered by RS. Bondegezou (talk) 16:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Motive - "Anti-immigration restrictionist" - that is a blatant lie

Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen even ran a web site that helped people migrate to Germany. He was featured on BBC. 2003:D1:C730:1961:C912:A1D7:BEE2:DDB4 (talk) 09:59, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

He was "anti-islamic" immigration specifically according to sources. Theofunny (talk) 10:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

He was anti-Muslim immigration but support atheist refugees immigrating. In fact that’s one reason he is mad at Germany. I’m not sure if saying it’s an anti-immigration attack is appropriate Cherry567 (talk) 15:02, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Minor fix

In the infobox the man arrested is referred both as "Taleb- Al Abdulmosheh" and "Taleb Al- Abdulmosheh", I think the second is the correct.31.221.146.133 (talk) 10:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox picture

Why the infobox picture is a still from a recording of a CCTV recording (copyright? hello?) and by having this, do we now allow such pictures of dying people in the open on Wikipedia? Kuracyja (talk) 11:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kuracyja Please see the Commons page for the image, it's ineligible for copyright as the picture was created by CCTV. As for your second point, so far it seems to be the best image of the attack itself that was free use, as such it will likely remain there. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 11:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

As an example, Killing of Brian Thompson also has a still from CCTV of the shooting as its infobox image. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 11:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

"the picture was created by CCTV" - it's a recording of a CCTV recording. Not an original CCTV recording as Template:PD-automated suggests. Kuracyja (talk) 12:17, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

If you wish to contest the validity of the template, I can only advise that you contest it on the Commons talk page, not here. My understanding of it is that an image consisting entirely of a CCTV recording is no more copyrightable than that recording. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 12:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Misinformation regarding the attacker’s religous views

https://x.com/MaralSalmassi/status/1870413236996092217https://x.com/MaralSalmassi/status/1870413236996092217/quoteshttps://x.com/brainhurty2000/status/1870748491032703430https://x.com/afalkhatib/status/1870557768673014066https://x.com/violent_corgi/status/1870557019192557965

folks r claiming that the attacker is a Muslim using out of context tweets. Perhaps we should clarify it in this wiki and the one abt him Cherry567 (talk) 12:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Official motive

While it seems that the perpetrator's motive has been the subject of much debate and heated editing, it seems that an official statement has finally been made. It may seem preliminary, but since it is official, I suppose it could be added to the article and the infobox.

"Prosecutors make first comments on potential motive". DW. 2024-12-22. [emphasis mine]

A senior public prosecutor in Magdeburg, Horst Walter Nopens, offered first indications about the potenital motive for the attack in a press conference on Saturday.

He said the suspect had made comments about his motive during questioning but that it was still necessary to see which of these held up to scrutiny.

Based on current information, he said, the motivation for the crime "could have been ... dissatisfaction with the treatment of Saudi Arabian refugees in Germany."

—79.163.180.66 (talk) 17:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Note that "could have been" in the quote. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 17:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Still, someone has included it in the lead. Theofunny (talk) 20:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Surely we need the verdict of a court to confirm what they find the motive to be before we include it. Speculation, especially by 'prosecutors', cannot be asserted as if fact in Wikipedia's voice by putting it in the infobox. -- DeFacto (talk). 18:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Suspect past tense?

In the introduction the suspect is mentioned in the past tense ("was a 50-year-old refugee"). When I read that, I assumed he'd died. Which does not seem to be the case. So maybe make it the present tense? Ribidag (talk) Ribidag (talk) 18:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

•  Done--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Photo of perpretator

1) Concerning the year of the photo: Just because his passport was issued in 2008 doesn't necessarily imply that the photo used on it has to be from the same year. The reference cited doesn't verify the year of the photo either.

2) Do we really need a photo of the perpretator in this article when we have an own article about him in which it is already included? Seems kinda redundant. Sure, in case his article gets merged, it would make sense, but thats something we could do in the future, not to mention that it looks like the article will be kept as of now. Maxeto0910 (talk) 20:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

1) Saudi passport requirements stipulate that the photo be taken within the six months prior to application (source). Surely he could submit one taken earlier where he looks the same, but I think that's why the date is given as *circa* 2008.

2) Personally, for what it's worth, I see no redundancy there. —79.163.180.66 (talk) 21:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

1) "Circa" means around 2008, but we don't know anything about the year of the photo, which is why it's just wrong to state that. It could be from 1995, which isn't close to 2008, so "circa 2008" is purely speculative and based on the assumption that he sticked to the Saudi passport requirements. Only thing we can say with certainity is that it's from before 2009.

2) I'm not sure if the photo really provides that much value to readers. Sure, for the article of the person it does, but it doesn't aid the understanding of the attack, so I'd argue we don't need it here as long as the suspected perpetrator has his own article with the photo. Maxeto0910 (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Viktor Orbán's response

Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary, vowed to "fight back" against open border policies after stating that there is a connection behind illegal immigration to western Europe and terrorist attacks. [57]

The cited article () doesn't seem to contain any information related to Viktor.

内存溢出的猫 (talk) 21:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

This news article seems to have been edited by someone. It is very different from what it was a day ago. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 15:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done: new citation has been added. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 15:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we add a greater emphasis on Taqiyya in his motive?

Currently, the suspected perpetrator is described as Islamophobic. Would it be appropriate to state that this is disputed, and that many argue that he is a Muslim who practiced Taqiyya to hide his religion? Is this a fringe view? Would like to hear Wikipedia's thoughts.

Thanks! JohnR1Roberts (talk) 21:25, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is indeed a fringe view. The people pushing this narrative are ignoring explicit statements by this guy, and projecting their own narratives onto him, b/c it undermines their politics. There is no evidence that he was "secretly muslim" or whatever, but plenty of evidence that he was anti muslim as stated by the authorities themselves. Midgetman433 (talk) 01:36, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Islamic attackers aren't known for hiding their religion. We should have a section in this wiki and Taleb Al-Abdulmohsen clarifying the meaning of Taqiyya - hiding one's beliefs to avoid torture or getting killed (most Muslims don't even know it) and debunking claims - including the out-of-context sarcastic Hamas comment. I will add a sub-section since I am too inexperience with wiki to write long paragraphs Cherry567 (talk) 09:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Why aren't we taking in account his cultural background and nature of the attack? Whether or not he said it, he was influenced by Islamic extremism. Treating such incidents separate from each other is disingenuous to the problem that Islamic fundamentalism poses. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 13:13, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It is not the job of Wikipedia to "solve the problem of Islamic fundementalism" Trade (talk) 13:29, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia's focus is to document events and inform people. It's good to highlight why such incidents happen. Criminal background, failed integration, cultural upbringing of the attacker/s. Even if they claim to be non-religious, this attack was no different from ISIS. 62.80.225.198 (talk) 13:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Sarcastic? That man was threatening an actual pro-Israeli Arab. I've checked who he was responding to. He's also been found to support Omar Abdulaziz and ISIS. In addition, many ex-Muslims have accused him of threatening ex-Muslims. We can't suppress this information. Linkin Prankster (talk) 15:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not stopping you from spreading this information Trade (talk) 19:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

No, it would not be appropriate. Firecat93 (talk) 19:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2024

It was a terrorist attack. 2001:1970:58AC:8700:5DD5:1E7F:A20A:86A4 (talk) 00:00, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It is political reasons, ergo terrorism. It would just need a RS source.Sportsnut24 (talk) 15:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

CCTV footage

May need renamed; I forgot to enter a name when uploading it.

As with Killing of Brian Thompson, I have also obtained the CCTV footage of this incident. Should it be included? E_F⁵ 15:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

In my view, this would not be appropriate (WP:WIAE)

Firecat93 (talk) 19:24, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Why not? We also depicts Thompsons death Trade (talk) 19:32, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

What encyclopedic benefit would including a video of a car ramming into a group of civilians have? The 2016 Berlin truck attack article does not have a similar video. Also, is this video publicly licensed? Firecat93 (talk) 19:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It's a visual representation of the attack that you don't get with just text. There was a discussion at the Thompson article, all users agreed it is encyclopedic and benefits the article. Yes, under PD-automated, we are legally allowed to host it; the Berlin one doesn't have a video because no known free video exists. See Charlottesville car attack, which has a video. E_F⁵ 20:27, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

What does the video add that the phrase "a car was driven into a crowd" fails to convey? -- DeFacto (talk). 20:45, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

What color was the car? How many people were standing there? What did the surrounding buildings look like? Did people start running? Did the car blow up? Did anyone fly off the hood? What direction down the road was the car moving? Did the car crash into a building? I find it interesting that nobody has an issue with the CCTV still being in the infobox, yet there's such a pushback against the video. E_F⁵ 21:02, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, let me rephrase that question... What, of encyclopaedic value, does the video add that could not be conveyed by adding a few words to the prose? I'm sure that those things you mentioned could all be covered in a few words if we thought they added encyclopaedic value. And BTW, I'm undecided as to whether the video adds value, which is why I'm asking the questions. -- DeFacto (talk). 21:16, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

As stated above. Most of those things likely don't have reliable sources to back them up, hence why a visual of the attack would be beneficial. And if that isn't enough, one other wiki already uses the video. E_F⁵ 21:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps the things that aren't covered in reliable sources are simply not relevant to the incident. Perhaps including the video is to simply pander to the ghoulish desire of some people to watch such videos, rather than to add any real value to article. -- DeFacto (talk). 21:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

So gore is the issue. Wikipedia is not censored. E_F⁵ 22:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

What issue? How does that relate to censorship? The question here is whether that video adds value to the article, not whether Wiki policy allows it to be added to an article. If it adds encyclopaedic value then it should be added, otherwise why would we want to add it? -- DeFacto (talk). 22:39, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It adds no value to the article. Wikipedia is not a tabloid. Firecat93 (talk) 22:44, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

@Firecat93, can you imagine a situation where a video might add value to an article? -- DeFacto (talk). 23:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, of course I can. The videos embedded in the article about the September 11 attacks add value, as 9/11 was a unique, historic, and distinctive tragedy. I would, however be opposed to adding videos of every shooting and terrorist attack. Firecat93 (talk) 23:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I've given you reasons above why it should be added, and you're discounting them. "Perhaps the things that aren't covered in reliable sources are simply not relevant to the incident" makes zero sense; why don't I also go remove the CCTV still and every other photo in the article since it adds nothing. E_F⁵ 22:46, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm struggling to understand the encyclopaedic value of being able to see stuff that reliable sources don't give due weight to by including in their prose. -- DeFacto (talk). 22:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

What else is there to say? It's a video of the incident. Why shouldn't the video be in the article? Again, with the "prose" rationale, I might as well remove every single image from the article, since they can all be summed up with prose. E_F⁵ 23:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Number of injured update

The latest number of injured reported by authorities has risen to 235:
"Number injured in Magdeburg attack rises to 235, prosecutors say". Yahoo News. 23 December 2024.

—79.163.180.66 (talk) 16:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done: number changed SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 20:43, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024

 i made above 10 edits Aremies (talk) 00:04, 24 December 2024 (UTC)