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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo (talk | contribs) at 00:03, 28 April 2007 (→[[Michael Jackson]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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The Good article review page is a place where Wikipedians discuss if Good article listed articles still merits their good article status, contesting former GA's that someone may think was improperly delisted, or request feedback on articles that have not yet been promoted.

Articles on this list are graded against the good article criteria in which an article is checked to be at the GA-Class grade on the article assessment scale. It is not necessary to go through this process unless there is a dispute about the article's status. This is not a Peer Review Process; for that see Wikipedia:Peer Review.

If you believe an article should be delisted

If you find an article listed as good that does not actually satisfy the good article criteria, then you can delist it:

  1. Check that you have logged in, anons may not delist articles.
  2. Check the good article criteria to see which criteria it fails to meet.
  3. If the problem is easy to resolve, it might be better to be bold and fix it yourself.
  4. If you can't fix it, leave a message in the article's talk page stating the problem(s). If possible, put appropriate maintenance template(s) on the article's page. See Category:Wikipedia maintenance templates.
  5. If you see an article on the GA list which clearly fails the criteria , you can delist it and remove it from the list at WP:GA immediately. To do this remove the {{GA}} tag on the article's talk page and put in its place {{DelistedGA|23 December 2024}}. Do not use {{FailedGA}}.
  6. Remember to explain what the problem is and what needs to be improved to meet the criteria.
  7. Remove the article from the list at Wikipedia:Good articles.

If you find an article that you suspect should be delisted, but aren't certain, then you can ask other editors to review the situation by adding the article to the list below. Please check that you have logged in, notify the editors in the article's talk page that it is under review, and provide a link to the GA Review page before listing the article here.

If you believe an article should be listed

If you disagree with a delisting or failed nomination, it's best not to just take the article back to the nominations page straight away.

  1. Read why the article was judged to fail the criteria: there should be an explanatory note on its talk page.
  2. If you can fix the article to address those concerns, and satisfy the good article criteria, you can just renominate it: there is no minimum time limit between nominations!
  3. However, if you believe that the explanation given was unreasonable, and that the article does fulfill all the requirements, then you can ask other editors to review it by adding it the list below. A brief discussion should be sufficient to establish consensus on whether the criteria are met, and whether it should be listed as a Good Article.
Good article review (archive) (Latest) →

Articles needing reviewing (add new articles at the top)

Note: Please remember to put a note on the article's talk page informing editors that it has been brought to WP:GA/R for review and possible delisting of its Good Article status. Include [[WP:GA/R|Good Article Review]] in the section heading.

Characters in Devil May Cry

First of all as the lead says, this article is a list which is not accepted at GA. This list is also to in-universe and therefore fails WP:WAF. Tarret 19:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Few things from the reviewer to counter those points:
    • I removed the outdated "list" sentence. It's not a list, and Wikipedia editors need to understand that articles with numerous sections aren't lists like "List of birds".
    • This article is not completely from an in-universe perspective. I forced the writers to add a section on concept and creation before I'd pass the article. Second, many subsections contain out of universe information, such as voice actors and other related development information. Third, the lead clearly establishes the topic as fiction and introduces the characters and their designer. Fourth, the section often cites the title of each game in regard to summarizing plot points, instead of ingoring where it came from. As someone who has helped promote the concept and craft it, I can say with certainty that out of universe does not mean saying the word "fictional" every sentence; it means finding the most real-life material available for a topic and covering it in addition to the in-universe points.
    • Although I'd prefer to see more details about cultural impact, the sources have been reaped enough to comply with the MoS subcriterion. If this were going for FA (which I don't recommend, given the limitations), I'd expect to see (a lot more) real-world information, better prose, and complete merges; however, this is GA level, and there is a difference.

— Deckiller 20:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article was a list, the header just stayed there, now it's a profile pages for secondary characters. Second the article isn't in-universe, it always refers to the characters as such by addin lines such as "In Devil May Cry mythology...". -凶 20:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Well the article looks okay, it has issues though starting with the opening sentence. The title wasn't bolded or wikilinked (fixed), and "set in the modern day" is just awkward. Even though I'm not going to vote as I don't really know the subject and did not read the whole thing, I looked it over enough to pick up a few points:
  • "As the series progresses it is eventualy revealed that" eventually is redundant.
  • I'm not an expert in wrting fictional entries but, when talking about voicing of the characters it might be wise to say "the character is voiced by [x]" instead of "Dante is voiced by [x]" or "she is voiced by" on occasion, this will help with the perspective and it also makes it more formal.
  • A lot of people don't like IMDb as a ref.
  • I don't know anything about Video games so maybe a little background about at least what years the games range from. Also would be a good way to expand to the lead, "Since 1999, there have been five games in the series..." etc.
  • "Ref 16 is blank." Quadzilla99 19:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Victoria Cross

Many sections have either none or too few inline citations, especially for an article this length with so many assertions of fact, the few citation needed tags do not represent the number of citations needed here. In addition the structure is poor at best and confusing at worst. The Awards section is poorly composed, consisting of many short and once sentence paragraphs, also citation lacking. Three small sections, theft, annuity and forfeit are too stubby to be their own sections and would better be served by a blanket history section. The last part of the article is a list which should either be merged elsewhere, moved to its own page and summed up in the article or deleted. This is at a first look and if its not convincing enough I will delve furtherIvoShandor 08:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, the Other section is too ambiguously titled to be useful. Just in case it wasn't obvious, Delist. IvoShandor 08:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delist per nomination concerns. LuciferMorgan 09:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delist per nom LordHarris 10:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment These are valid concerns, I'll see if I can do anything to remedy the situation. --Xdamrtalk 12:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, most of us here are willing to change our opinions if conditions merit such an action. IvoShandor 13:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Marquette Building (Chicago)

Nominated for delisting. Poor structure, history section really is more than that, the restoration section and much of the history section is really just about architecture. Thus the actual history present is stubby at best and fails the broadness criteria as well. In addition the lead doesn't meet WP:LEAD, several facts find their only mention within the lead. In general the article is far from broad and such a famous example of Chicago architecture surely has more information available than this. IvoShandor 07:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see multiple other problems, I can note them here if others would like. IvoShandor 08:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I will list them when I get a shot, today or tomorrow or sometime soon. IvoShandor 16:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my issues and, for the most part, why I say delist:

  • Several one sentence and short paragraphs/sections.
  • Unencyclopedic exact address in the lead.

 Done moved. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The lead doesn't really represent a good summary per WP:LEAD, there are still several detailed facts that appear only in the lead.

 Done added some. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The whole article needs a copy edit.
  • Need citations:
  • It is considered an exemplary model of the Chicago School of Architecture

 Done TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The building features several distinct elements that have earned it honors as a Chicago Landmark, a National Historic Landmark, and a National Register Historic Place.
Not necessary IMO. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can't tie these together without citation, it would represent unpublished synthesis, or OR.
  • Around 1950, the terra-cotta cornice was removed from the Marquette Building when an additional story was added.

 Done cited. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The preservation of this building was championed by the Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois.
  • Broadness
  • Surely the history section of a 112 year old building considered an exemplary model of the Chicago School cannot meet the broadness criteria if it is only six sentences long.
  • The architecture section isn't very thorough or broad either, on the interior it only describes the lobby on the exterior it only describes the sculpture and the windows.
  • Consider adding a section where you can discuss its landmarks statuses, its awards and why it is such a significant example of the Chicago style of architecture.
  • The architect used trademark long horizontal bay "Chicago windows" on the Marquette Building
  • The one and only ; ), Who is the architect?
  • This part of the architecture section could use a rewrite, it is really choppy: The architect used trademark long horizontal bay "Chicago windows" on the Marquette Building.[4] These are large panes of glass flanked by narrow sash windows. The grid-like window frames and spandrels are facilitated by the steel structure which enables non-load-bearing masonry walls.[4] This was one of the first steel-framed skyscrapers.[3] The building is built around a central light court featuring an ornate lobby.[5] The lobby is decorated with mosaic panels made by the Tiffany firm and bronze heads of native Americans, animals, and early explorers. The two-story rotunda lobby contains panels of lustered Tiffany glass, mother-of-pearl and semi-precious stones that depict scenes of the early history of Illinois.[1] The hexagonal railing around the lobby atrium is decorated with a mosaic frieze by the Tiffany studio depicting events in the life of Jacques Marquette.
  • The Restoration section seems unfocused.
  • At least one full date unlinked.

 Done linked. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • External links always go last.

 Done moved. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The city of Chicago footer template seems like overkill and clutter, it doesn't even link to the article.

Most WP:WPChi articles should get this tag. Good navigational aidTonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • All of the images in the gallery should be moved to commmons and the gallery removed and replaced with a Commons link using {{Commons}}. If you don't want to move the images to Commons at least remove the gallery, per WP:NOT.
  • Much of the sections outside of architecture (as noted above) are also choppy, thorough copy editing by unaffiliated eyes should help to resolve the flow problems.

This is all I have for now. Hope that helps. IvoShandor 16:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Just so everyone here knows, as should be obvious from my comments above, this is a serious, good faith GAR with no ill intent or previously implied retaliation involved. IvoShandor 17:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good work on these things so far, the broadness notes are important in my opinion. We shall see what others think. I am not wedded to delisting this, it just needs to be better is all. IvoShandor 01:24, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Washington streetcars

Warned by me on the article's talk page in December 2006 regarding lack of citations etc. Delist. LuciferMorgan 16:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I still think it should be delisted as the article is too listy. LuciferMorgan 23:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Delist Teemu08 22:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC) [reply]

  • Speedy Delist: per four month warning. The article is also badly structured, listy in places, and the aforementioned stub sections aren't helpful either. IvoShandor 06:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been working on a complete re-write. I'm not quite done, but I'm replacing the present version with what I have now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cranor (talk • contribs)
  • Keep Following Cranor's work, the argument listed against in the nom is now addressed with 63 footnote numbers, and many of them are cited multiple times (one is even cited more than 30 times). Slambo (Speak) 17:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The massive improvements make it hard for me to see anything that stands out against GA status in this article. Homestarmy 18:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral: Can't see going from Speedy Delist to Keep, the article is still listy, and not just in the lists, there are so many section breaks and bolded words I lose track of what the article is about. IvoShandor 15:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist Yea it's well referenced but let's start with the problems.
    • The article doesn't mention the title of the article - Washington, D.C. streetcars should be de-linked and bolded.
 Done Quadzilla99 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The lead is way too small for an article this size
    • Table of contents is too big
    • I see refs before punctuation, refs with spaces
    • Dates are'nt formatted correctly - July 13, 1868 should be July 13, 1868
 Done Quadzilla99 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Only text in the lead should be bolded, there's text in almost every section bolded
    • About 20 external jumps
    • Article contains lots of one sentence paragraphs
    • External links section should be at the end of the article
 Done Quadzilla99 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The See Also section comes before notes
 Done Quadzilla99 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • So Yea, this article in no-way should ever become a good article unless something is done. M3tal H3ad 11:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delist Solid article. I struck my above comment and changed to weak, still needs a little work. I just did some significant work on it to help out and checked off some of the above reviewers cocnerns. Metal Head was correct in most of his assessments, although I disagree with some. I would think it's alright to have portions of the title linked sometimes see Characters of Final Fantasy VIII, so you don't have to be to repetitive and mention them again in the next sentence, I did fix that though anyway (I know what the MoS says no need to repeat it). Never had a problem with large TOC's, I went through and fixed the dates in the text (not in the references due to time/interest level), I think redirects are often bolded and everything bolded is in fact a redirect, although the redirects should go to the exact section and not to the top of the article, fixed the layout issues (although I was forced to tag the link farm of an EL section), the main problem remaining for me is the external jumps those really need to go. Quadzilla99 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work but i still stand by my decision. This "Paragraph" 'Colorado Avenue Terminal on 14th Street, now a Metrobus stop' has no full-stop, as does 'The Median on Penn, built in 1903 [3]' And these sentences don't make much sense
    • Public transportation began in Washington, D.C. almost as soon as the city was founded. When was this?
    • Why is something so simple like 'day' wikilinked
    • but service ended soon after it began. Why did it end?
    • After the Herdic Company went under, awkward use of "went under" what about bankrupt or disbanded, whatever happened
    • Much of the article reads like "Went along 10th street and U, but changed to U and 11 street soon after. When the new company came in it went to 13th street etc etc. I'm not sure what you mean by the title, but the example you provided had the title of the game bolded, this didn't. M3tal H3ad 13:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delist however, rework could bring this to GA. article has good breadth and depth of content, but needs widespread effort. prose is listy and rambling in places, excessive section breaks, bolded words, and general formatting problems occur throughout. top suggestion: you may want to consider creating stub articles for sections of low notability, and then place a see also section header/footer on the section. this would improve readability, particuarly for sections of individual companies or operations. single bullet lines in cars and barnshops needs complete rework, or creation of a stub article, or a list. ChicagoPimp 16:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

William Fuller (football player)

I'm the main contributor to this article; I nominated and it passed two weeks ago. However, I just noticed while browsing around that the user who passed it is a confirmed sockpuppet (see the discussion on GA/R talk page). So I thought it should put it up for review just to be safe. The two notes I'd like to make is that although the article is short it's comprehensive—the player did not have an article until a month ago and the Houston Chronicle's extensive online archives (which I've searched through thoroughly) don't really have much to add to the article (other than brief mentions like Fuller recorded two sacks, Fuller is expected to make the Pro Bowl, Fuller is looking forward to the season etc.). Also there are no pics available for the article on flickr or otherwise, as you can see here, I'm good at finding free pics so if there were some I'd have found them. Quadzilla99 10:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The review is here. Quadzilla99 10:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note I added a stats table to fill the article a little more. Quadzilla99 10:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


ALCO FA

Has zero citations and is stubby in places. Delist. LuciferMorgan 01:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh now I see the show/hide link, can you change their color, that was too hard to see, they didn't seem to do anything that's why I called them ridiculous, no offense intended, they're actually kind of neat. IvoShandor 15:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I thought might be the problem as it seemed to me to be a bit dark on dark to begin with. As I remember, the background color in those cells used to be a lighter color. I'll see about rectifying at least that much shortly... Slambo (Speak) 15:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

School counselor

This article is US based, almost completely ignoring what a school counselor is outside of the country (except for one run-on sentence section about Korea). The history section only deals with this and also has zero citations. Theoretical framework and services only has one citation, and the citations in the article are not properly formatted. Teemu08 07:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the weather forecast sees potential for WP:SNOW... --Ling.Nut 12:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, this article does cite references in APA format. Wikipedia contains many articles that are American. School counseling was invented in the United States.whicky1978 talk 02:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and Update, School Counseling was first developed in the United States, and is barely beginning to take root in other countries. It does have a large professional association [1] and the grand majority of school counseling training programs in the world are located in the United States. It is quite ludicrous to consider deleting this article based on it being written from a predominantly American perspective. I would invite people who know more about it from the perspective of other nations to join in and update it to a more international perspective. I, personally, would be quite interested to learn about school counseling training programs in other countries. I believe they are sadly quite rare at the moment. Kukini hablame aqui 02:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The article certainly presents the topic as if there were more than just the United States to consider, your argument seems flawed and if it's not the article's structure is. IvoShandor 10:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am considering archiving this discussion as Delist, Keep and Update isn't really a position for keeping this as a GA as much as it is an admission that the article fails GA criteria #3a. IvoShandor 13:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Four to two is indeed a majority to delist, but its not an 80 percent majority, the last real new thing was Kukini's keep vote on the 19th from what i'm seeing, that's only five days. Homestarmy 17:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist I would tag this for cleanup if I saw it while browsing. Look at this section of the prose: "This movement emphasized personal, social, moral development." That's actually a sentence, or this one:"Often counselors will coordinate outside groups that wish to help with student needs such as academics, or coordinate a state program that teaches about child abuse or drugs, through on-stage drama (Schmidt[1], 2003)" where's the period?—and what's with the wikilinking for Personal/social development later on? I doubt an article could ever be created for such a topic; it would certainly get nuked at any afd. Also, the see also section is beneath the reference section, the writing is informal ("For example,""Though not ideal,""Additionally, it has to have"). The following statements seriously need sources also:
    • "Elementary professional school counselors also spend 35-40% of their time in classroom guidance."
    • "A fully-implemented district-wide comprehensive school counseling program meets the needs of 100% of the students—just as the district's mathematics program is for 100% of the students."
    • "" Quadzilla99 20:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Jackson

There seem to be NPOV problems, such as this line: This raised concern as some perceived his actions as child endangerment, although Jackson has vehemently denied these tabloid rumours. media attention that is negative being stated as "tabloid rumours" seems a bit biased. Strong fox 21:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delist Lead is far too long, surely some/most of the stuff about his accomplishments can be better said somewhere else in the body of the article? It seems like a bunch of overkill with so much in the lead. Homestarmy 02:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delist The lead definitely could be trimmed, you could almost make a whole new section with the information there. There are also many citation needed tags throughout the article, and I'm sure other areas could also use some more inline citations as well. --Nehrams2020 00:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this needs to be re-set, Strong Fox never put a notice on the article's talk page. Editors should be given notice and time to address concerns. Quadzilla99 19:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Per my previous reasoning I moved this back to the top, now I'm going to go notify the article's editors on the talk page. Quadzilla99 23:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Quadzilla99 23:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is the lead the main problem? That can be fixed quite easily. Seems harsh to vote de-list just based on the lead. Some tags are still unaccounted for, but overall the article is teeming with citations.UberCryxic 14:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the lead is fixed, we can of course change our votes, i've changed my vote plenty of times based on article improvements. These reviews can last quite awhile. Homestarmy 15:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the lead, the first main paragraph is designed to explain the importance of the subject of the article, ie. to answer the question "Why is Michael Jackson relevant?" after "Who is Michael Jackson?" already being answered in the opening sentence. That's why the accomplishments are listed there. You'll notice a similar pattern for musical acts of equivalent stature, like Elvis Presley and The Beatles. There's a lot of talk about impact, achievement, sales, and so on. It's virtually impossible not to note down things like that for people like these. So far, I have removed the awards from the lead and placed them in another section. I have also mentioned the albums released after Thriller to give his musical career some sort of chronological perspective. Beyond that, the lead seems to be fairly all-right and of appropriate length.UberCryxic 12:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problems with the first and fourth paragraph, but the second and third go into so many specifics, that it seems less of a summary and more of a compleate list of every important influence Michael Jackson has had on, well, a whole bunch of things. For instance, where the second one lists the artists he's influenced, that kind of thing can easily be generalized into something like "Has influenced a great number of modern singers" or something like that. Then the main part of the article should be where the elaboration on who the people he's influenced are, because then there's plenty of room to explain every influence as much as needed. Homestarmy 13:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Lead is still way too long as far I'm concerned. I don't really care for any rationalizations, it's too long and should be cut. Quadzilla99 23:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is appropriate that long articles should have leads of three to four paragraphs. This one is more like three paragraphs (the first part is two introductory sentences). Whether you care for rationalizations or not is irrelevant; you're getting some, and in this case they are justified. To Home: those two paragraphs highlight the significance of the subject. At their core they are fine, but we can discuss how much information needs to be modified so it's of acceptable length to you guys. Beyond that, there are precedents that I used in writing those parts of the lead, especially Bing Crosby, whose influences in the lead are explained as follows:

One of the first multi-media stars, from 1934 to 1954 Bing Crosby held a nearly unrivaled command of record sales, radio ratings and motion picture grosses. He is usually considered to be among the most popular musical acts in history and is currently the most electronically recorded human voice in history. Crosby is also credited as being the major inspiration for most of the male singers that followed him, including the likes of Frank Sinatra, Perry Como, and Dean Martin. Yank magazine recognized Crosby as the person who had done the most for American GI morale during World War II and, during his peak years, around 1948, polls declared him the "most admired man alive" ahead of Jackie Robinson and the Pope[1][3] Also during 1948, the Music Digest estimated that Crosby recordings filled more than half of the 80,000 weekly hours allocated to recorded radio music.

The tone of the lead for that article is similar to the one for Michael Jackson, as are the details. This aside, however, I actually disagree with the assertion that the lead goes into specifics. It really doesn't, merely highlighting the major influences and aspects of Michael Jackson's career. The one part where it may is the third paragraph, although, again, there are tons of precedents with biographies of musicians that include sales figures and other chart accomplishments in the lead. If they are notable, they should be there. And with Michael Jackson, clearly that information is notable.UberCryxic 20:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm the main contributor on the Michael Jordan article which was recently promoted to FA, so I don't need any instructions on how to write an article on a well known iconic figure. Quotes in the lead (specifically about the subject rather than from the subject) are a bad idea unless the quotes are tremendously famous. So for starters I would cut the lengthy quote. Quadzilla99 08:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This whole thing can go:"heralding and displaying complicated physical techniques, like the robot and the moonwalk, that have redefined mainstream dance and entertainment. At his height, he was characterized as "an unstoppable juggernaut, possessed of all the tools to dominate the charts seemingly at will: an instantly identifiable voice, eye-popping dance moves, stunning musical versatility, and loads of sheer star power."[2]" The first half sentence is unencyclopedic hyperbole and can be lopped off, the previous sentence will be fine without it. The second sentence is a quote which is in general a bad idea for a lead, also contains hyperbole. Quadzilla99 08:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although I didn't think it necessary, I've removed the quotation from the lead.UberCryxic 02:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not questioning your credentials, but it does not seem fair to refuse "rationalizations," as you put it. Quotations can sometimes do a good job of encapsulating a whole lot of information into one or two sentences. That's why this one was found and placed in the lead. It did an effective job at conveying the importance of the subject. The Michael Jordan lead is really not all that different from the Michael Jackson lead. You even talk about awards he's won, which is actually something I removed from the Michael Jackson lead as a response to this review. The Jordan lead, like the Michael Jackson lead with Vanity Fair, also mentions critical perceptions, like ESPN and the Associated Press. The language is somewhat comparable...."widely regarded as one of the greatest entertainers of all time"......"widely considered one of the greatest basketball players of all time"....."instrumental in popularizing the NBA around the world"....."redefined mainstread dance and entertainment"...and so on. Now I am beginning to challenge your implicit assertion that the leads of these two articles are notably different. Apart from the quotation, which is not a big deal at all, they are not. Both leads do a good job at highlighting the status and "magnitude," if you will, of the subject. And if you include just career achievements, then the two leads are actually of similar length. The only reason why the Michael Jackson lead is slightly longer is because it has to document his controversial personal life.UberCryxic 17:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The quotation was removed at one point, but I was reverted by another (far more persistent) user with whom I did not want to get into a big discussion or an edit war, especially over something so relatively insignificant. I am still officially supporting the removal of that quotation, but I can tell you right now it will not be an easy process getting it past some other users. There are plenty of precedents on articles about musical acts discussing specific and future artists that they have influenced. If the artists in question are notable, and clearly they are here, there's nothing wrong with mentioning them in the lead. The insinuation that the list represenets "everybody he's ever influenced" is ridiculous; that list really would deserve its own section. The people mentioned are meant to be representative of the various genres in which Jackson has had an impact....and, again, they are famous.UberCryxic 16:40, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok the quotation has been removed once more from the lead and placed in another section. Beyond that, I truly believe the lead is fine. Again, take away Jackson's personal life and his career gets the same coverage length-wise as Michael Jordan does in his lead.UberCryxic 16:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delist From an outside view I find this article to be quite biased and in general badly written. It will never progress if the persistent fanboy gushing is not addressed promptly.--Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo 00:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alpha Phi Omega

Too few references, other issues such as solo linked years.Sumoeagle179 21:02, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Solo-linked years is actually permissible, and recommended in most cases, per WP:MOS. Dr. Cash 07:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Solo linked years is generally not recommendable, see WP:DATE; specifically here there is considerable dispute though. In my experience in FAC's they're not well liked. Although that's an easy fix. Quadzilla99 23:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Does this review need any more attention, I see a 1 to 0, and although there's no rule against it, I don't really think its a good idea to act on a 1 to 0, its just one vote so to speak..... Homestarmy 23:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, 1 to 0 is no consensus, default keep. I will look at the article if I have a chance. IvoShandor 11:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Too few references in article, and source of references is narrowed primarily to APO references. Expanding references to a broader variety of sources would likely increase content and improve verifiability. Background of formation is sufficient, but article needs a section of significant contributions, expansion of charity events and/or community service. For having 300k members, a mention of notable alumni also would help. ChicagoPimp 16:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Champagne (wine region)

The objection I have to this article is that most of the information contained therin more properly belongs in a different article, that of Champagne (province). The wine region article should be delisted, split and merged into the province article, and renamed something like "Wine making in Champagne", then each article could be renominated for GA as appropriate. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well Wine making in Champagne would not be an appropriate title since the wine history of the region is a vital component to terroir of the region. I'm not sure how familiar Jayron is with wine but there is much more to the creation of wine then just "wine making" with the people, places and history each adding profound elements that make wine like Champagne truly different from any other sparkling wine. For reference, similar articles along this line would be Napa Valley (wine) and Languedoc wine.To that extent I do think Champagne (wine region) is the most appropriate title and place for this information. After looking over Dr. Cash's comment, I agreed with him that an article titled Champagne (province) should include more details on "the government and politics, demographics of the population, transportation, economy, sports team" etc like an article on a US state like Rhode Island or another French province like Lorraine (region). As the majority contributor to the wine related history and info, I agreed with him that the wine related history and info overwhelmed the provincial article so I went ahead and split the two and renominated the wine region to be evaluated on its own merit. I hope this clarifies things for you. AgneCheese/Wine 00:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, as an FYI, if sections such as the "Military history" are what caught your eye as maybe belonging better in Champagne (province), I will direct your attention to the citation references at the bottom. They are all from wine books since those elements of Champagne history has had a profound affect on the wine industry in that region. Every item in the Champagne (wine region) article is tied back into its influence on the wine. AgneCheese/Wine 00:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I tried to bring these concerns to light in my initial GA review, because the article was initially nominated as Champagne, and dealt solely with the wine-making aspects and nothing about the political, geographical, and cultural aspects of the province. The article was then split and renominated, as Champagne (wine region), and I still have some doubts about GA status, but the article was passed by Sandstein before I could do anything, and I decided not to challenge at the time. Dr. Cash 17:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As I noted, everything in the article is specific and relevant to the wine region and wine. Is there another area that I should look at or improve to take care of these doubts? AgneCheese/Wine 07:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral for now: Weak lead, doesn't conform to WP:LEAD and includes one sentence paragraph. Some of the information in the History section is probably a bit too detailed for an article about the wine region. Is there a difference between the wine region and the whole of the province, that should be made explicitly clear. IvoShandor 06:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your comments IvoShandor. I worked on the lead to address some of your concerns. As for the history section, if you can point me in the right direction I'll see what I can do. The largest sub section is the "Rivalry with Burgundy" which is only relevant to an article about the wine region and wouldn't have a place in any other article. The "Military Conflict" is by far the smallest sub-section and gives context to the history of the area and the blood that is in soil. The only references in the "Military conflict" section come from wine books because they are pertinent to understanding the terroir. Is there something that you would recommend? AgneCheese/Wine 07:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The blood that is in the soil? Anyway, is there a difference between the wine region and the province? I will take another look at the article and come back with specifics. IvoShandor 07:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
heh, pardon the literary device. :p But that is one aspect of the terroir that is often talked about in regard to the Champagne region. The wine from the area is so different from wines from other areas no matter how finely detailed that a wine producer would try to imitate the condition of the area and the wine making techniques. That innate difference is attributed to the "sense of place" that the Champagne region has and Champenois do talk about the blood that in their soil due to all the battles and conflicts that the area has saw. Terroir is fascinating in that regard. If you are an avid reader (or just the curious sort) a book you may want to consider is James Wilson Terroir. Even if you're not into wine, it's a pretty good read. AgneCheese/Wine 08:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One sentence in this article catches my eye, "From the key market of Paris to the palace of Louis XIV of France at Versailles, proponents of Champagne and Burgundy would spar to get the upper hand.". This wasn't literally fighting, was it? Seems a bit unusual way to word it, its not very direct unless they're literally fighting. Homestarmy 17:24, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded. AgneCheese/Wine 16:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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