Talk:Baton sinister

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Merge

I think that it would be better to discuss the literary term bar sinister in the baton sinister article. Authors seem to be referring to the correct charge of a baton sinister when they use the phrase bar sinister. --Forlornandshorn 14:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. A discussion of the erroneous "bar sinister" would be appropriate as a section of the "baton sinister." Bar sinister can redirect to baton sinister quite easily.--dave-- 00:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I completed the merge and turned bar sinister into a redirect.--Forlornandshorn 19:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Illegitimacy

By the way, I think some people are skeptical as to whether this really goes back beyond the 17th century... Churchh 20:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As john of gaunt illegitimate children (C14) initially had battons and after the pope's legitimisation had a border to show they weren't in line to the throne but were legitimate I think the above post is misplaced.Alci12 12:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Were they all sinister? Churchh 07:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'll find that the Beauforts pre-legitimation bore "Per pale argent and azure, a bend of Lancaster (i.e. gules charged with three leopards and a label of France)"; this has numerous parallels, e.g. a whole litter of Burgundian bastards to whom, if I remember right, a plate in Woodward's Heraldry is devoted. After legitimation they bore "Quarterly France and England, a border compony argent and azure"; various legitimate contemporaries also had borders. —Tamfang 07:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]