Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2007

Who's going to be the first to update the page with the winner?!? ;D -- JamieScuffell

Bosnia's entry is in Serbian

Bosnia is a country with three official languages: Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian. This year, the representative is from Banja Luka, Republika Srpska, the majority Serb part of Bosnia, herself a Serb. It's only natural that she sings in Serbian, since the author of the lyrics is Serbian too. A Greek website reported that the song is going to be sung in Bosnian likely out of ignorance (as Bos., Serb., or Croatian sound or/and are the same linguistically), not being aware that this is sensitive in Bosnia. There is nothing wrong with this, however, someone keeps changing this. --Ogidog.

However, Marija is an official representation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, therefore this defeats the purpose of the song being dubbed "Serbian" yet "Bosnian" as Serbians and Croatians in the country are not in the title of the country. Mehicdino 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Bosniaks changed the name in 1992 so that they would be in the title. Actually Bosnian and Herzegovinian are both pertaining to Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims -- you are welcome to read about that in the article on Bosnia and Herzegovina. Official languages in Bosnia are Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian. Please don't base facts on your own assumptions. --Ogidog

People, I have found concrete proof now that the song is sung in pure Bosnian, therefore making it the Bosnian language. There are minor differences in pronunciation and spelling with Bosnian and non-Cyrillic Serbian. This is all from my father with a major in linguistics, specifically Balkan languages. In Bosnian, you would pronounce and spell "river" as "RIJEKA". In Serbian, you would pronounce and spell the word "REKA". Marija's song title and in the lyrics the word is spelled and pronounced as "RIJEKA". This fairly makes the song in Bosnian. Now we just need some who speaks Serbian to confirm this as "on the paper" proof and it will be solid evidence. Mehicdino 19:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Serbian spoken in Bosnia is the same like Bosnian (Bosnian exists from 1992, when Bosnian Muslims renamed the language they speak from Serbo-Croat). The issue is not whether linguistically this is Serbian or Bosnian. "Reka" is the standard for parts of Serbia (where "rijeka" is also used), while Serbian from Bosnia and Montenegro uses "rijeka". Linguistics degrees matter little here (I actually have one for those purposes!). If you read what I wrote above, you would realize that this is not a linguistic but rather a political issue. Language spoken by Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina is Serbian. Since Marija is from Repulika Srpska (where Bosnian is not even taught in schools), it's safe to assume that the language of the entry is Serbian -- especially since the person who wrote the lyrics is from Serbia. If you read the article on Serbian language on wikipedia, you'll see that your "proof" that juxtaposes rijeka and reka is actually flawed. Ijekavian (rijeka) and Ekavian (reka) are both standard in Serbian. Also there is no such thing as non-Cyrillic Serbian as, both Bosnian and Croatian can freely be written in Serbian Cyrillic. You should probably leave linguistics to linguists. --Ogidog

Actually that dosnt really prove anything. Using an online translater at: [1], it says river = reka, rijeka for English to Serbian. Greekboy 20:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

That online translator would be incorrect Greekboy. Most online translators aren't that detailed to go into minor linguistic differences among the same languages which are affected by the region in which they are spoken in. We need someone who speaks Serbian here or another Bosnian and they will say the same.

Oh, and I do happen to speak all three official languages and can tell you for a fact that there is no linguistic test that can make a difference between Bosnian, Serbian or Croatian in the words for this song! Therefore, please stop the changes! --Ogidog.

That's a pretty interesting claim my friend, especially since there are no three different languages, they are all the same... Mehicdino 01:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually according to Bosnia and Herzegovina wikipedia page, it says the official languages of the country is Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian. Greekboy 02:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

That's right, but the differences between those languages are minor. If you speak "any one of those" languages you can understand the other two perfectly. After the war everything was done after the collapse of Yugoslavia to maintain as much independence and difference racially, culturually, and linguistically so due to those minor differences between the main language due to geographical reasons, they were dubbed three different languages. In Ogidog's case, nobody would ever say that they speak "all three languages" as it's really one language that was spoken throughout Yugoslavia. Marija's song contains clear evidence of the "Bosnian language" making it a song in "Bosnian". Mehicdino 03:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

It is my understanding that because the differences between these languages are so minor, the name of the language spoken by a specific individual is determined solely by his or her ethnic affiliation. It follows then that the language of Marija's song should be called Serbian, not on the basis of any linguistic argument, but simply because Marija is ethnically Serbian. Furthermore, because Serbian enjoys equal legal status to Bosnian within the country, it is perfectly legitimate to refer to it as a language that is representative of that country. The name "Bosnian language" itself is controversial, implying that it is not just the language of the Bosnian Muslims, but that of the Bosnians as a whole, which is clearly not the case. Of course, if the song were sung by a Croat or Muslim uttering exactly the same words, the name of the language would have to be adjusted accordingly. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 03:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

So you're saying that on the Eurovision 2007 article in the "language" column of the table, the language is based on the singer's ethnicity and not the language in which the song was sung? You are also deeply incorrect for saying Serbian is the official representation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. To put it bluntly, it is the Serbian population that are the "invaders" (not meant harshly) of Bosnia and Herzegovina, as the original Bosnjak population of the country is the true ethnicity of the country. Mehicdino 04:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

From a linguistic point of view, the language is Shtokavian; the question of whether to attach the Serbian or Bosnian label to it is a purely political one that rests entirely on the speaker's self-identification. As for the rest of your rant, it is an appalling example of hate speech that doesn't even deserve a reply. According to the version of history taught outside Bosnia, the Muslims are in fact the most recent ethnic group to emerge in the region. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 04:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hate-speech? I presented no hate towards the Serb or Croat or any other ethnicity in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I meant "invaders" as I couldn't find any softer word. Before the Yugoslav breakup all three ethnicities of Yugoslavia had no ethnic tension and were friendly. Bosnia and Herzegovina had a mix of all three ethnicities. During the breakup and INDEPENDENCE of every Yugoslav country, Bosnia and Herzegovina attempted to maintain its own independence just as the other Yugoslav countries by resenting the Serb population as much as possible and holding in the Bosnjak population. Anyways, let's not stray too far into politics then not needed yet focus on the issue at hand. Marija's ethnicity is Serb, she speaks "Bosnian" according to her lyrical work which features minor linguistic difference between Serbian and Bosnian but indeed indicates that the song is indeed written in Bosnian as "on the paper" there technically exists a "Bosnian" language. On the Eurovision 2007 article, a column lists every language for every song. Marija's song was written in Bosnian, so accordingly this would be listed as "Bosnian". Mehicdino 05:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

There is no evidence that the language of this song is Bosnian rather than Serbian. Your rijeka/reka example above is extraneous to the argument; it simply demonstrates that the Ijekavian standard of the Serbian language used in Bosnia coincides with Bosnian in a way that the Ekavian of Serbia does not. In other words, rijeka is no less Serbian than reka; the fact that rijeka is the only form used in Bosnian (i.e. by the Bosnian Muslims) is irrelevant. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You didn't really say much Kekrops but say what I meant. Since the Bosnian Muslim population of the country say the word as "rijeka" and this population ties with the Bosnian LANGUAGE, this would make Marija's song Bosnian. And since you want concrete evidence that "rijeka" is not a Serbian word, I will fetch this for you in a moment. Mehicdino 05:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't, because a.) rijeka is as much a Serbian (and Croatian) word as it is a Bosnian word; and b.) Marija is not a Bosnian Muslim. The Bosnian Muslims and their language are no more important than the other constituent nations and their languages. You obviously believe that the Bosnian Muslims are the only ones who matter, as the "true ethnicity of the country", and that the rest are "invaders" - who shouldn't even be there in the first place, I'm sure - but you are wrong. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics of this song are IDENTICAL in all three languages, it only depends what nation do you belong to. I am not accepting any of those three variants of same language, i am speaking Serbo Croatian language, which was an official language in Yugoslavia, and that language was kind of mixture of those three language. But Marija Šestić is declared as Bosnian Serb and she is speaking Serbian language, she finished school in Banja Luka in Serbian Language. Smooth O 13:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

But now it's official that lyrics are in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian language http://www.pbsbih.ba/bheurosong07/v03/tekst_bhs.html Smooth O 13:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, the national broadcaster has the final word. And if they call the language bhs, that should be good enough for us. In any case, it's clear by now that the language cannot be called (just) Bosnian. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 13:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This dispute seems to be going nowhere as it always end up in a "linguistical paradox" between the three Balkan languages. We just dub the language as all three languages it will end the dispute in a fair manner, as all three languages are small branches of the Ekavian language, which we couldn't put as the song's language since that's too much of a linguistical term and an unknown and unpopular one. Putting it as all three languages seems best. Mehicdino 22:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this has been settled I suggest that this discussion be deleted. It's embarrassing, and a waste of space. Innate 09:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

We don't do that. --Djordje D. Bozovic 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Embarrassing for whom? The Germans have their BMWs and Mercedes cars, the Americans are the world's greatest superpower, and the Bosnians are proud to have a single language with three different names, that is what makes us unique! Balkantropolis 13:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Reliable sources

I think that we should develop the line of using more reliable sources than 100% tabloid website as oikotimes, that hardly ever delivered any breaking news, other than reprinting it from other websites. The policy of verification link should be first of all to put link to OFFICIAL broadcaster website, news release or information bulletin, and only then using unofficial websites.

Qualification query

I have looked on esctoday.com, and all I found was articles saying that the system was changing so that only the top six counties qualified. Can anyone show me a website which says that the 2006 top ten countries qualify for the final?

• See [2]

ESC 2007 qualification system

In www.eurovision.tv, the official website of the Eurovision Song Contest it is clearly mentioned that "Only the six highest-scoring artists from this year’s (2006) Final are qualified to take part in the 2007 Final."(That leads us to 10 finalists since the 'Big Four' automatically qualify) This information can be found in http://www.eurovision.tv/english/2049.htm near the bottom of the page.

• This one was just the discussion at some point in EBU meetings. At EBU press-conference in Athens it was confirmed that qualification will stay the same, top 10. [3]

Removed section Other Facts

I have removed the section because it was copied directly from the article referenced below. The information was unrelated to ESC 2007 as it contained information about the ESC 2006 voting procedure and other useless facts. Currently very little is known about next year's contest. Loool 11:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Serbia and Montenegro

• What about Serbia and Montenegro ?86.207.55.131 21:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Given the result of the current referendum, they could both enter! Jess Cully 23:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
    • id love to see serbia or montenegro enter. or both. theyr good musicians
      • Serbia and Montenegro are countries, no musicians. --Tyron1 23:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
        • I've heard that they're both going to enter in Helsinki --Nathan Waddell
• both RTS and RTCG confirmed to ESCKaz their intended participation. We approached EBU to confirm the status of these 2 countries, whether they should be considered new or returning? and received following responce: "This hypothetical question is difficult to answer. We will just have to wait and see how many countries apply for the participation before the deadline". [4]

Kosovo?

I heard that Kosovo would like to participate next year and also there will be much more strict rules about each country participaetion.(Source:Macedonian newspaper Vest @ www.vest.com.mk

• As, for the time being, Kosovo is neither independent nor an EBU member, we'd best wait before speculating on that one. Jess Cully 17:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Kosovo could only enter in 2008. The likeliness is that they will debut with Azerbaijan in 2008 as long sa they can join the EBU by the time of the entry deadline. Nathan Waddell

Conan O'Brian

There are already rumours in Finland, that YLE is interested in making Conan one of the presenters. 159753 14:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Won't happen. It'd be as likely for them to put Matti Nykänen as the presenter as Conan O'Brien. --HJV 21:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

But Conan O'Brien might do it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.181.214.51 (talk) 04:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

doesnt seem likely, but one can always hope ;) --chandler 04:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Pull-out?

Why does the map in the aricle show that Israel and The Netherlands probably will pull out? I haven't heard something about it.

The map was produced when it was suspected that those two participants were likely to pull out. These rumours have now vanished, so the map is out of date. 0plusminus0 18:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Updated. —Nightstallion (?) 23:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Possible debutant countries vs deutant countries

Why is that on other section?My opinion is that Montenegro and Seria will be present in Helsinki.Can anyone suggest something else?

• They will participate alone after Montenegro declared independance. I'd like to see both Serbia and Montenegro in 2007. Nathan Waddell Oh wait, lol, we do !

Finland?

In 2006, Finland presented the first ever hard rock song in Eurovision, and instantly won. What will they do in 2007? Sing traditional "crying songs" from Karelia? JIP | Talk 16:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The map

Italy and Slovakia need colouring magenta on the map. Jess Cully 16:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually waiting for someone from WikiProject Maps to reply to this request. They might not do anything, an even if they do, it might only be after Kosovo becomes independent. It might be best to wait for these problems to resolve themselves, before we can edit the maps. RedvBlue 15:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the map and the legend, meanwhile. —Nightstallion (?) 19:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Where's the map...Sorry! Nathan Waddell

'Possible Copyright Violation'

Can anyone explain why the article has been replaced with a 'copyright violation' notice? On the given link, I can't find anything that seems to have been in the article. If anyone can prove me wrong, please do so! Thank you! - Lewis R « т · c » 15:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually have no idea what's going on there? It's really annoying, hopefully wikipedia sort it out soon... - TF100

I dont care if I wasnt allowed to remove that copyright violation notice, but that is only suppose to be used when most of or the entire page is copyright violation and its not the case in this article. Also, the Oikotimes article posted as proof of copyright violation has nothing to do with any of the information present on the page. If there is a small reference that hasnt been cited, it doesnt mean that the whole page should be blocked. Evilperson 20 21:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Austria's in.

ORF just confirmed it, source in German is here. —Nightstallion (?) 15:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Kazakhstan?

I think Kazakhstan has broadcasted the contest for some years now. Are they members of EBU? And could enter the contest in 2007? --213.64.150.45 12:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• They are not active members of the EBU, but as a part of Kazakh territory falls into the European broadcasting area, theoretically they could join in the future and enter ESC (but not for 2007). - TF100
• Theoretically they can join, but so far no interest confirmed. National television never broadcasted Eurovision Song Contest.

according to [5], you are wrong, they cannot join. --androl 15:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Canada

Canada doesnt broadcast the Eurovision Song Contest. Evilperson 20 03:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• I heard that they used to do so in the 80s... but ok. TF100
• No, they have never Broadcasted Eurovision. 209.135.121.21 21:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• I know this isnt Canada, but I dont want to make a new section. Who in the US broadcasts the contest? I watch it on ERT World. If foreign channels are the only ones broadcasting it, should it be considered as a US broadcast. Also Canada with many other countries would fit in as broadcasting. If anyone has any information please let me know. Greekboy

Italy?

What would happen if Italy rejoined the ESC and thus made the Big Four the Big Five? Would the tenth country from last year's final have to go to the qualification round to allow Italy its automatic qualification? —Nightstallion (?) 00:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• If Italy returns,the Eurovision Song Contest would e so complicated:In that cause,the participation of Armenia at ESC is in question,as that country participated at ESC only once.
• If Italy has Big 5 status, the top 10 from last year's final would still qualify automatically, making 15 automatic finalists. There would still be 10 qualifiers from the semi, as there have been plenty of ESCs with 25 participants. Jess Cully 13:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If Italy would not participate and if Serbia and Montenegro participate independently,and Austria and Hungary return,then Chezch Republic,Georgia,Lebanon or another country would be rejected. If Italy doesnt come back as well as Austria and Hungary,and if Serbia,Montenegro,Chezch Republic,Georgia,Lebanon and other country participates,then the last participant of the next competition will be decided with a draw. The final decision for participants of ESC 2007,will be known in December.

Because Italy snubbed ESC for ten years, if they do return in 2007 they'll certainly have to enter the semi-final. The only way they would get 'Big 5' status is by paying the same EBU subscriptions as the Big 4, and that would only be allowed from the second year of their return. Jess Cully 11:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Aha, okay. And is there really no way that more than 40 countries can participate? I'd think it would be better if there were more participants, no? —Nightstallion (?) 13:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

But I think that Svante Stockselius already promised to Italy a spot in the final,if they ewnter as part of big5.He also said it is his wish to see Italy return.Now with the new government it is more likely Italy to be back.

Actually Italy is a member of the Big 5, as stated in the rules of the Eurovision Song Contest, and therefore would go directly to the final despite having "snubbed" it.

I figured as much. So, what's the deal with the arbitrary cap of 40 countries? What happens if there are more entrants than that? Do some have to concede, or can all participate somehow? —Nightstallion (?) 10:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Who knows whats gonna be on Eurovision next year.The deal eventually is to limit the countries in entering the ESC.However,I think that if next year be more countries than 40,then EBU would hopefully change the rules and would probably hold a draw,or having 2 separate semifinals and one big final which only big 4/5 enter and the winner of the edition.Italy Boycotted eurovision so much,in 1993,1994 til 1997,and up til 2007.

Ok, Italy are in 'The Big 5.' It's only 'The Big 4' whilst Italy are not participating. The rules suggest that Italy would automatically qualify. I'd love to see all members of Europe gain access to the EBU and they would probably shortern the automatic qualification for the Final to the Top 5 and 'The Big 4/5.' Nathan Waddell

The voting system,and Russia

I have a question about Russia.I recently watched the 2004 edition,and I saw that Yana Churikova said that now votes the biggest country in the world.However it was unclear for me about the voting:Does all Russia (including Asian part have televoting or only the European part?)

• All of Russia can vote, although in reality the vast majority of votes come from the European part, I should imagine, as it would be around 5 or 6 AM in parts of Asian Russia by the time it came to vote. What interests me more is whether the DOM of France (such as French Polynesia, Guadeloupe, Réunion, French Guiana, Martinique etc etc), who are legally as much a part of France as Paris is, get to vote? -- TF100 18:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• • As long as they are part of the EBU then yes. I think they probably get a say in the French vote. Nathan Waddell

• • • Can not agree with that about Russia. Contest is broadcasted live only in Western Part of territory, and Eastern part views it recorded next day, so they are unable to vote.

Individual Entries in the Eurovision Song Contest 2007

I have a question. Should'nt the box with the individual entries say "FYR Macedonia" instead of "Republic of Macedonia" since that is how the EBU recognises them? Also it is a shorter name to put into the box. Wikiwow12 01:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Simple answer-No because thats the name of the country.It doesnt matter how the EBU recognises Macedonia,but thats the name of the country.

Actually to get technical the name is disputed and the UN and EU also know it by FYR Macedonia. 68.37.213.40 17:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It is funny because Yugoslavia does not exist anymore.However Macedonia is recognised from Bulgaria, Russia,Albania,Serbia and all countries under constitutional name Republic of Macedonia-I guess this is the best solution because the Greeks doesnt want only the name Macedonia so Republic of Macedonia will be great choice.I hope this will clear out some time because it gets so upsetting in Macedonia too.

My understanding is that the official international recognised name by the EU, NATO, ect. and the EBU is FYR Macedonia. But the constitutional name is the Republic of Macedonia. But shouldnt we write it as it is recognised by the EBU since this is an EBU event? Wikiwow12 09:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Languages Of Bosnia and Herzegovina

It is really a pity that there are Serbian nationalists here at wikipedia. I mean, the song from Bosnia is sung in it's official language, which is Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian. The song does not contain ANY word, that only exists in one of the three versions of the language. So it is Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian - all three, but not just one!

So I don't really get the point, when people change that into "SERBIAN" in this article, since this is a very poor form of nationalism! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.176.40.154 (talk) 15:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

It's not nationalism, it's the fact that if sung by a Serb, the song is likely going to be in Serbian. It's a fact. It was in Bosnian last year, and in Croatian the year before. Furthermore, contrary to what you may be saying, there isn't one single national language named Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian in Bosnia and Herzegovina -- there ARE three languages with three names (read the constitution), they are linguistically the same, but politically they're not. There is nothing wrong in a Bosnian entry being sung in Serbian.--Ogidog 00:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It was in English in 2005! Smooth O 11:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It was in English in the ESC, but the song that won the national selection was in Croatian and was called "Zovi" (a far better option for lyrics compared to the retarded and clumsy English version).

I agree with that Smooth O 18:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Song will be preformed in Serbian Language, one of three official language in Bosnia and Herzegovina Smooth O 11:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting to see that the user Greekboy who keeps reverting doesn`t make difference between Bulgarian and Bosnian but claims to be sure which language is used in Bosnian entry. Avala 19:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Excuse you. I only reverted the article 3 times for that subject through this WHOLE argument. I stayed clear of it all, since I can't stand ESC arguments. (last year...) I found a reliable source, and I posted it. So stop using my name saying that I'm doing stuff. And for all you reverting back and fourth, you do realize you are breaking the Wikipedia:Three-revert rule. You can get banned for that, as well as the whole article blocked from editing. And I have no clue what you mean by "dosnt make a difference between Bulgaria and Bosnia. Greekboy 20:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Greekboy, please stop changing the page. The entry is in Serbian and there's no doubt there. Several people keep reverting this to Serbian, not one person. You have understand that your Oikotimes/ERT source has the wrong information. In Bosnia, you don't need sources to determine this. Please leave the page as is. Thank you. (And if you look at one of your notes with the reverts, you said Bulgarian instead of Bosnian -- since you don't understand the issue, just lay off it). And I don't think Avala made any reverts, so you're addressing the wrong person! Ogidog

I wrote Bulgaria by mistake, because the same day I had reverted a change of the name for the Bulgarian song. Second, as much as you dont like it, ERT is an official source. They get information from all the broadcasters, and write news. They are in no way affiliated with Oikotimes. I only reverted the article 3 times through this whole argument. Yet I am the one being pointted out by Avala. And I was not addressing Avala for the 3 Revert rule. I am addressing EVERYONE. You WILL get banned if someone turns you in. And worse yet the Article will get blocked. We do not want the article to get blocked. It takes 2 weeks+ to get un-blocked. Greekboy 22:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed official for Greek matters, I don't think it's relevant for Bosnia. The article is only descriptive, and I personally think that the author wasn't aware that there are more than one languages in BH. Furthermore, even official sources may be wrong. The Bosnian page is cryptic on pupose and they don't mention the language -- actually the MP3 for download is in BHS which stands for Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian. They want to avoid to list the language. This is why one needs to use logic. Likely, if you asked Marija or Aleksandra Milutinovic what language they spoke, the would say Serbian, what's more, Bosnian is not even taught in Banja Luka schools.

Let's clear this. Bosnian entry this year will be preformed in Serbian language, because Marija Šestić is Bosnian Serb from Banja Luka and she speaks and sing in Serbian, also song is written by Aleksandra Milutinović (she is from Serbia, also speaks Serbian). I know that Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian are basicaly same language (i live in Bosnia and Herzegovina), but it must stand some language, in this case it is Serbian. I do not like either this separation of languages in three names, but it's official and we must accept it. I am official Serbo-Croatian language speaker, as you can see on my profile page, and it's not official language name any more. It's not nationalism or something similar, it's fact, so please don't change it. Smooth O 19:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

As YLE is perhaps slightly more official than ERT, I suggest to change the language to "original" [6]. Now, honestly, we have a Serbian young lady singing a song written by an author from Serbia and we can't make up our mind as to what language it is in - well fine let's just call the language "original". --Dzordzm 14:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

No, she is singing in Serbian. There is a political movement that wants us to assume that all languages in Bosnia are Bosnian until proven otherwise, which is ridiculous. Bosnian is not even a majority language in Bosnia.

This is getting kinda ridiculous. Bosnia and Herzegovina is represented by a Serbian singer, singing a song composed and written by an author from Serbia and some people can't get over the fact that she is "perhaps" singing in Serbian language, one of the official languages in the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Bosnian broadcaster has not indicated the language and YLE refers to it as "original". I'm afraid we do have to go by common sense here. --Dzordzm 07:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone of you heard Marija saying she sings in Serbian? Since official sources (her website) claim the song to be sung in "bhs" (bosanski/hrvatski/srpski) (=Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian) I think they would have to know better than single users here, since I think we can take an official statement rather as a fact than claims of some users. DannyLibre 18:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - though please note that that website only went online yesterday. (P.S. Of course, the whole thing is PC BS, but we should go according to the official website.) --Dzordzm 06:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

According to an interview with ESC Today Marija says "Bosnian version" and she doesn't say anything about the song being in serbian. Unless someone can give an actuall source where her saying that she sings in serbian it should either be Bosnian or BHS. I will provide a link to the video interview as soon as ESC today is up again. EDIT: Here is the link http://www.esctoday.com/news/read/8581

map

It would be good if someone fixed the map to reflect the fact that Serbia and Montenegro are now separate countries. --Dzordzm 01:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I deleted it, as long as it's fixed. 137.226.135.153 14:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I fixed the map to reflect Serbia and Montenegro as separate countries. Greekboy 17:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

You did it a little bit wrong. You placed Pljevlja within Serbia; the boundary should go just a little bit northwards. :p --Djordje D. Bozovic 11:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

There's another thing to fix: the European part of Turkey is already in the final:P Mb731 15:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I will fix it again, but what do you mean European part of Turkey? There is only 1 Turkey. Greekboy 17:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, user Mb731 is right - you painted a part of Turkey green and the rest of the country red. :D --Djordje D. Bozovic 17:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker of English, so forgive my mistakes =)) I meant that part of the one and only Turkey which borders Bulgaria to the northwest :P Mb731 17:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright it is fixed. Feel free to let me know of any other mistakes. Greekboy 18:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The map needs a different colour system, changing blue since Blue is not suppose to be used in maps (as it represents water) Evilperson 20 02:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I re-uploaded a new version of the map with purple substituting blue. Greekboy 03:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Eurovision 2008

I think that we should put a link so to make a page aout the next year contest,as something for example the dates are known.I wrote an article,and someone deleted it.Or can you suggest what can we do?

UK cock-up!

It was pretty embarrassing but we nearly had Cyndi going to Helsinki because, Terry and Fearne messed it up!! Anyway Scooch is typically Eurovision, well for us lately anyway... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.35.121.138 (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Bosnia's ethnic key

There seems to be a tacit agreement on the ethnic rotation of Bosnia's Eurovision entries, much like its presidency. According to this agreement, it is the Serbs' turn this year. I have found a couple of references to this on Eurovision fan sites.[7][8] Does anyone have anything more substantial on this? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This will never be much more than speculation and original research. Yes they obviously do take care of the ethnic key but it was never official policy and you won't find anything in credible sources. --Dzordzm 06:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well as far as i know,thats true,it is Serbs turn to send candidate to Eurovision(we remember in 2002 that was Maja Tatic,and immediately after that was Croats turn(Mija Martina) and of course in 2004 that was Deen.Again in 2005 was Croats turn,in 2006 Bosniac turn and now in 2007 Serbs turn to send the performer.I think next year will be some Croat or Bosniac.

This is not a rule, that's coincidence (officialy, but we are not stupid). That's biggest problem here in Bosnia and Herzegovina. If you don't use ethnic key it's a problem. Smooth O 09:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Dates

I've removed the '2007-07-12' date from the subtitles, and simplified them to just final and semi-final. I don't think that date format is suggested by the Wikipedia manual of style, nor is it common in UK English or ROI English (someone correct me if Malta uses it).

I appreciate the other Eurovision pages use that format too. I'll gladly change them all if no one objects. Dmn € Դմն 18:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Broadcasting of the show

As I saw,recently,it is written that the show will be broadcast in Costa Rica via TVE satellite channel.But can we make more specific,can that mean that all Latin America can watch Eurovision Song Contest,since TVE's satellite signal is quite strong and it usually can be seen everywhere in all Central and South America,including Mexico.

Serbia and Montenegro

Isn't it funny that Serbia is represented by a Turkish-origin woman (Marija Serifovic) and Montenegro by a Scotsman (Stevan Faddy)? ;D --PaxEquilibrium 15:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Her grandfather has Turkish blood, and that's why her last name is Šerifović. She said that on Turkish TV http://www.kurir-info.co.yu/arhiva/2007/april/03/ST-03-03042007.shtml That is common Muslim last name in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Also some other Serbs have similar last names because Serbia was under Ottoman empire. I don't know about Stevan. Smooth O 20:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Serifovic is her mother's surname, not father's. --PaxEquilibrium 09:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Problems with Eurovision winners link

[edit] Problem with Eurovision winners link It seems that somebody is having the time of his life by spreading farcical information on several Eurovision winners. As I am French and try to get information for the French Wikipedia Eurovision winners section, I am a bit annoyed. At first, I noticed the joke on the Linda Martin link where she is described as "heavily botoxed", at first I was hugely amused (although I have no idea how she looks) but thought administrators were seeing to that because in the discussion page, there was a reminder of how they wanted the article. Then it started to occur to me that while creating some links for the French pages, I had discarded information that sounded strange or out of place and yesterday I realized that there is somebody having fun. I think all winners links should be looked at by administrators especially Linda Martin, Bobbysocks and the clairvoyant story, Udo Jürgens described as a womanizer (perhaps it's true but on a Wikipedia page, it does not sound serious) and his "family links", Massiel's birthdate and place and strange "political" biography, I don't think the Spanish link mentions it and perhaps Teddy Scholten or I can't remember who is supposed to have a hit by "recording instrumental versions of The Shadows' hit. Consequently, I'm not sure I can rely on the English version to create links for the French version. Something like "heavily botoxed" has no consequence because you know immediately it's a joke but more troublesome are other information that do not sound farcical and might be repeated and translated on other links out of good faith.

Kindest regards,

P.R —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.79.228.47 (talk) 06:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eurovision_Song_Contest"

FYR Macedonia Bi-Lingual

Just so you all know, i updated the Semi-Final table with the Macedonian's Song's Languages as today it was announced that it would be sung in Macedonian and English on esctoday.com Celticfan383 06:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

On a further note, I noticed you changed the spelling of her name. I changed it back to how it was. That is how it appears on the official CD, and how she will participate in ESC. Greekboy 15:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Really? I could've sworn it's shown as just Karolina in the SF and F. Shall we leave it at Karolina? Celticfan383 15:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

She will spell her last name with a ch. I guess for easier pronunciation. Here is the back cover [9] Greekboy 15:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I suppose then they couldn't get the proper spelling in that font, lol ! I know it's for easier pronounciation, but to make it even easier and to stop arguments should we put it as 'Karolina' ? Celticfan383 15:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Well the ESC people can get fonts. So I don't think thats the problem. Usually what is on the CD is what the participation will be. Maybe we need an outside opinion on this one. I would prefer someone not 'attached' to the entry to be un-biased. Not a big issue, but just minor disagreement. :) Greekboy 16:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but surely it should be Karolina. Can we have an outside opinion please ? Celticfan383 16:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Big4Who

Who are the "Big 4"? Why are they not on the Map thing either?

United Kingdom
France
Spain
Germany
These are the 4 main financial providers for the Eurovision Song Contest and the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). They are on the map and under 2006 qualifiers (green). For more information see this link -- Chris as I am Chris 16:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

In additional information, if Italy re-entered the contest, which they may do very soon, the Big 4 would become the Big 5, as under the money needed to participate rules, Italy would become one of the biggest payers into the contest ¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

You guys made my day tonight. I was updating the Final List while it was being announced and when I was going to save I had a problem with my connection. When I got it back, I saw that someone had already updated the list. It made me feel that I am not alone. Thank you. --Nauki 22:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I was also gonna do it lol, i got beaten to it...! ¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Exact Semi-Final Results

Does anyone know when the exact results from the semi-final will be published? I mean, which country in the semi-final got the most votes, who got second most votes, etc.

Thanks!

DJ Dritt 13:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

After final i think Smooth O 17:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

It will be released after the Final with the Final results table. Then all the Easten Europe vs Western Europe can hopefully be settled...¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Polls

Are there any polls or something?

I hear they're mass-betting on who will win, and the amount of interest is larger for those who "probably won't pass" and very little for the "winning ones"... --PaxEquilibrium 00:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Voting System

This year, more than other years the Eurovision Song Contest was biased by the fact that the votes all returned to countries that come from the Eastern block. This is the first time that is evident so much that all viewers of the show knew what had happened. There were a total of ten qualifiers as required. Almost all countries (instead Turkey) make part of the Eastern block. Countries like Cyprus, Malta, Netherlands, Denmark, Andorra, Poland, Austria and also Switzerland (this country was predicted to be the winner of this year's edition) didn't reach to qualify.

As seen from the leading Eurovision fan website, esctoday.com, the Iceland singer stated that he has no chance to compete again in the Eurovision because first thought that anyone can win this year's contest but doubts cropped because of the eastern european dominance. Some countries like Cyprus and Switzerland are threating to withdrew from the competition while the Maltese Head of Delegation, Robert Abela said that if the EBU does not do anything there will be a chance that they will halt their Eurovision experience for a year until something suitable will be adapted.

Chrisportelli 07:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

How will the votes be presented?

Will the votes be presented in the same way as last year (1-7 automatically, then the spokeperson says 8, 10 and 12) or something different? In my opinion, spokeperson should read votes 6 and 7 too, it isn't boring to me. In the new way, it's hard to keep the track of the score table. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bosco adventure (talk • contribs) 07:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

Colors in map - I'm getting blind

A map is very useful, but with this colors you get blind, they are much too bright. Those who are in the finale should have more satiation, the others should have less, also the water. The first map is obsolete to me. Could this be changed, please... --Abe Lincoln 18:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Points reps

What's the name of the Swedish points presenter guy? Lady BlahDeBlah 21:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

André Pops —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xhandler (talk • contribs) 22:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

His name is André Pops, he is a famous programleader of a show called "Lilla sportspegeln" in Sweden. Here is a link for one of his performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKay5pr4i_A&mode=related&search=