Talk:Freddy Adu

Why was his full name removed? Thnom 14:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

How was DC United able to sign him in November, when the draft wasn't until January? Was it because they knew they had the first draft pick? RickK 03:48, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Confusing turn of events. Adu signed with MLS in November, which meant that he went to DC automatically because they had the first pick. DC made it official at the draft. - Scooter 21:31, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

if i remember correctly, dc didn't really have the first pick but were gifted it because adu wanted to stay in dc with his family.

The page states he was born in 1989, but was 16 in 2000. Typo? Or am I confusing this with the other young player mentioned? - Anon 04:24, 13 Nov 2005 (PST)

See http://dcunited.mlsnet.com officially lists it as 1989. Their have been question marks against his age as all his birth paperwork was lost when they moved to the US. So even 1989 could be incorrect. Thnom 14:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Featured

Now the featured article on the football portal, will be for the next few days. Phoenix2 02:42, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Prodigious Soccer Talent? Debatable...

Look at the webpages for Adriano, Robinho and Michael Owen, none of them list these strikers as "Prodigious Soccer Talents." Earlier someone said that Adu was such because numerous scouts label him as such. However, i'm sure those scouts wouldn't label him as better than Adriano or Owen, certainly not Robinho. The simple fact is that Adu is simply not that well known outside the United States, calling him a "Prodigious Soccer Talent" is the opinion of a couple people, not the collective whole. Thus i've changed the opening sentence to better reflect the standard for soccer players around the world. By saying he is a "Ghanaian born American soccer player." Any claims to fame should be included in the text following the introductory sentence and sourced if they are likely to cause controvery...like his talent, which is under constant debate. Batman2005 23:05, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Adu is well known all over the world, if you go to any international football forum and search for his name you will find plenty of articles. In addition, you clearly do not know the defintion of prodigy. A prodigy is a child who posseses enhanced abilities. A 24 year old (Adriano)A 27 year old (Michael Owen) and a 22 year old (Robinho) DO NOT COUNT AS A PRODIGIES!! Adriano, Robinho and Michael Owen are not 16 years old. The "debate" is what's known informally as "hating" is has no basis in reality, most of it comes out of a contempt for American Soccer and MLS. Adu is the youngest athlete of the modern era. He was player of the week twice and man of the match 5 times in a league that is considered on par with if not better than the coca-cola championship. He recently played in a World Charity match with stars such as Ronaldo and Zidane, in which he was one of the better players(if not the best performer on the team. He is being courted by Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, PSV Einhoven and Manchester United. The only reason he has not signed with one of them is due to FIFA Rules against the international transfer of children, rules which arise due to his not having an EU passport. Your edits reflect your own personal ignorance and I will continue to revert them if you continue to make them.

It's funny that you seem know nothing about Michael Owen. Do you know how old Owen was when he competed for England? And did you know anything about world cup 98 when Owen scored one of the all-time greatest goals against Agentina? Owen was starting for Liverpool at 17 and a world-wide super star when he was a teenager. Is Adu a "super star" now? He is not even a star in the moderate MLS...LOL.

P.S. here are some more quotes for you,

“His left foot is fantastic. It’s like Mozart. God gave Freddy the gift to play soccer. If he is prepared mentally and physically, nobody will stop him.” —Pele

“A blind man on a galloping horse can see his talent. He’s a little Faberge egg.” —Former United coach Ray Hudson

“He is the best young player in the world right now; not in the United States, in the world.” —MLS deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis

“He’s the first guy soccer’s had in America that transcends the game. He’s kind of like Tiger Woods.” —United vice president Doug Hicks

"The 16-year-old Adu, regarded as the most sought-after young player in world football, plays for DC United in Washington ­ one of four football clubs, including the LA Galaxy, who are owned by the American company Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG)." [url]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/premiership/story.jsp?story=684644[/url]

look and its .co.uk it's from England!!!! happy now?Drsmoo 02:57, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll break this down for you one at a time. First off, you've shown your immaturity by calling me ignorant, but we'll let that slide. Second, You've offered NO sources that say that Adu is a soccer prodigy. I'm sorry, but you are not a source, your inclusion of this information is a violation of NPOV and Original Research. You further reflect your point of view by saying that the debate about his talent is merely "hating." However, you fail to reference the numerous articles ESPN.com has run from Greg Lalas, among others, questioning his ability, attitude, committment, and overall facility for playing against grown men. Third, your sad attempt to educate me on what a prodigy is was laughable, but lets get back to the real issue here. A user has requested a source for a piece of information that is controversial, you have failed to give it on two occasions now...the information should be removed until YOU can provide a reputable source specifically saying that Adu is a soccer prodigy. If you cannot, then it is Original Research, end of story. Nobody is doubting his credentials as man of the match...twice! WOW! or MLS player of the week. Your statement that he was one of the best players on the field with the likes of Zidane and Ronaldo further shows where your opinions are, but that's not important. Additionally, lets look again at the ESPN.com archives where both Sir Alex and Jose Murinho were quoted as saying that they have NO interest in Adu at this time, and haven't made inquiries into signing him to their clubs. If you can't provide sources for your PSV and Real claims, then I'll pass them off as original research too. A few quotes from Pele and MLS coaches does not equal a prodigy, a published source from a reputable soccer magazine, internet article, or a knowledgeable soccer expert specifically saying that he is a prodigy will suffice for me. I've asked for a source, not boyish attitude from you. If you can't provide a source then the information will be removed, if you continue to revert, I'll ask an administrator to step in and settle the dispute, which according to wikipedia guidelines about citing controversial information, you would surely lose. I suggest looking for a source calling him a prodigy, rather than arguing further, if you can find one, terrific, i'll be happy to repost the information myself, if not...it won't be included. Batman2005 03:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

what would you define as "proof" of him being a prodigy?Drsmoo 03:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course you can't 'prove' or 'disprove' that someone is a prodigy. All you can do is find supporting evidence. However, the fact that Adu was not able to be selected in the 2006 World Cup, to my mind anyway, suggests that the jury is still out on this question. --Alexxx1 ^{(talk/contribs)} 00:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

--His recent selection to the MLS All-Star squad, based on merit (he was not chosen last year), as a 17 year-old would say to reasonable observers that he is far advanced for his age. Sammyj 22 July 2006

Freddy Adu had a trial with Man Utd and was not good enough! I think that says he isnt as talented as this article makes him out 2 be. at least not yet

it was a training stint, Ferguson said he impressed but they can't legally sign him untilhe turns 18. By all accounts he did very well. Drsmoo 20:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC) `

Freddy referred to as a prodigy

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,283-2028147,00.html

There you go, you were able to provide a source, now I have no problem with it being included in the article. I do, however, think that a better first sentence would read Freddy Adu (full name:Fredua Koranteng Adu) (born June 2, 1989 in Tema) is a Ghanaian born American soccer player who gained fame when, at the age of 14, he signed a professional contract with MLS, making him the youngest professional athlete in modern history. We could then include the prodigy information, with your newly acquired sources of course, in the paragraph about his soccer career. As i'm sure you'll agree, he's more notable for his youth at this point, than his talent. What are your thoughts? Batman2005 04:05, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you can prove someone is a prodigy, it isn't something that is based on facts, but opinions, if you do a google search as I did, you'll find tens of thousands of more articles labeling him a prodigy. And so with that, I think it's safe to say the widely held view is that he's a prodigy. I can't imagine a sensible way of putting a link to an article "confirming" he's a prodigy. Again, that is how he's known and that is how he has been labled in this article (not by me, I ddn't write it) for quite some time.

Drsmoo 04:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

How's that look? Batman2005 04:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Better, I think you should watch him play moreDrsmoo 04:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I do, constantly, and I spent a year of his career stationed in Europe, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and i'll tell you, you can walk down the street and say the name Freddy Adu, and most fans won't know who he is. Personally, i think he's a cry baby and would have been better served going through more of a developmental stage, rather than jumping in at 14 years old and playing against people twice his age. There's no doubting that some day he'll probably be a great player, but his maturity level isn't where it needs to be for club or country at the moment. Batman2005 04:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to prolong an argument but I saw a poll on an english site about american soccer, and I think 99% of englishmen in the poll knew who he was, and about 90% knew who landon donovan was. Drsmoo 04:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I think more would know who Donovan was if he hadn't totally sucked in Germany when he was over there the first time. I'd say the most famous American players at the moment in Europe are Kasey Keller and Tim Howard. Simply because Howards plays for a big name club and Keller has been around in a few different leagues in his long career. Batman2005 04:37, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The most famous American players in Europe are Keller, Howard, Friedel and Adu, there's no two ways about it. I've never even seen Adu play, but I have heard of his talent at such a young age. He is a prodigy. Landon Donovan is moderately well-known, on a par with perhaps Reyna and Hahnemann. By the way, I'm from England. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/. 21:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC).

Adu will come and play for Olympiakos (Greece). They say that they offer more than 13 mill. euro.....

Freddy's youth deals with AC Milan and EPL clubs

Could someone provide source info for the assertions that Freddy turned down youth deals with AC Milan and EPL clubs? Streamless 14:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Try here. Sammyj 20:25, 15 June 2006 (EST)

From what I understand, according to si.com, on June 26th, Freddy Adu will be leaving DC United for a contract to play for West Ham United in EPL. --DJ Citizen D 19:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Facts and speculations

It seems to me that this article states several things that can be questionable without citations from reputable sources. I have removed one item stating that he may be moving to Europe after an undisclosed MLS season for a deal with one of two clubs. There are still other items in this article that I think are questionable, for example:

- "He has stated though that he is unsure who he will represent as an adult player--the U.S. or Ghana": this could be reworded, but I'm not sure if it is even necessary. I'll leave it in, but I vote for it to be removed.

I have vandalized this page! Nobody deleted it! For shame, somebody sohuld have realized that Manchester United have made no such claim. Let this be a lesson to you!--86.142.92.126 22:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Adu, a Ghanaian

Freddy Adu is from Ghana, i fail to see how he magically became an American.

Well, if someone becomes a citizen of the United States, they may be called an American at that point. Or Ghanaian-born American, in Adu's case. Sammyj 02:31, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

To add to the above, there have been many sporting stars who have taken an identity as being from their adopted country. Hakeem Olajuwon, Owen Hargreaves, and Tab Ramos all come to mind. Further, people like Fereydoun Zandi and Mike Piazza have all competed for countries of co-citizenship even though they grew up in another.

In case you dont know adu will come to Olympiakos for 13mill. euro.

Noteworthiness of goals

There is a difference of opinion as to what is notable in Freddy Adu's life. Some believe that his skills at the penalty spot are not. Some believe that dataing JoJo, whoever that is, is not. These are points of view. It may be argued that at this early stage in his career, his 100% (to the best of my knowledge) proficiency from the penalty spot in the pro game is noteworthy. That is a POV as well. However, the actual made PKs is not a POV, but a fact. The Wikipedia is full of facts, some less and some more "meaningful" than these PK stats. This data will be useful to some and, obviously and apparently, not to others. Sammyj 11:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

My contention is that Penalty Shootout goals result in nothing meaningful to a players overall goal tally. They do not count towards career goals or towards any sort of golden shoe or top scorer type awards. It is a worthless bit of trivia. I've done some quick searching and have been able to find no other footballers who list shootout goals. In fact, on the World Cup 2006 page, the shootout goals was removed several times from the "Scorers" list as being non notable. Additionally, you can't claim "POV" when there is a dispute over inclusion of content, POV refers to inserting information that is opinion. Deleting information as non noteworthy is not doing so out of POV, but rather out of disbute for content. Editors should work towards consensus in their edits, which is what the purpose of this discussion is. WP:BRD dictates that you should 1) be bold and insert information as you did. 2) Wait for it to be reverted, as it was. 3) DO NOT REVERT, but discuss on the talk page why you feel the information should be included. You've thus far, twice, disregarded official wikipedia policy and reinserted the information. Wikipedia is about consensus, as of now, the consensus is against including the information that you initially added. Readding it will be seen as editing against consensus which is construed as vandalism. Batman2005 13:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

You have not addressed my point that although the PKs may be trivial in general, at this point in Adu's career, his PKs further substantiate his level of competence. You are speaking in generalities - I am talking to the specifics of Adu's career as he was chosen by the manager, over more experienced players, for the responsibility. Maybe this nuance should be added in addition to the actual goals. Likely in a few years, the information will be appropriately removed or rephrased. Sammyj 14:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

^^ That is purely POV. Being chosen to take a penalty substantiates his level of competence? Some of the best players in the world are terrible at penalty kicks. Some of the worst players in the world are excellent at penalty kicks. The stat has zero meaning. The shots taken and scored in penalty shootouts do not count towards any awards. Precedent has been set with numerous other pages (see World Cup 2006) where everytime shootout goals were added, they were deleted for being not noteworthy. The inclusion of such information has been repeatedly shot down on wikipedia. A better solution would be, in the main body of the article, to include something such as "Adu has been frequently chosen to take spot kicks during penalty shootouts, and has yet to miss" or something along those lines, perhaps providing a source for the "has yet to miss" claim, as it really does need a source. But listing them in statistical form is entirely inappropriate and as far as I can tell, the is the only page where it was done that way, and as I said earlier...it had been shot down several times on other pages. Batman2005 14:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

DC United has been only involved in 2 penalty kick shoot-outs over the past year (11/6/04 4-3 win over New England in the MLS play-offs and 8/24/05 1-4 loss to FC Dallas in the US Open Cup). Freddy was successful both times. How would you suggest referencing that- box score URLs? I'll borrow from your phrasing- "Adu has been chosen to take spot kicks during DC United's two penalty shootouts, and has not missed." Sammyj 15:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC) . P.S. Who would you consider goal scorers that are poor PK takers?

David Beckham is historically unsuccessful on Penalties, he converts some, yet misses quite a few. David Trezequet doesn't take penalties well, and not just the one in the world cup. Batman2005 19:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Becks converted all of his untill he lost his confidense vs turkey, then missed two in the euros, he no longer takes them.

I don't really see the point of including goals from friendlies. Or havinog a list of goals at all. How many other players on this site have that? It's just not something that belongs in an encyclopedia. And yes, shootouts goals are not noteworthy. He did miss at the WYC, too. Batman2005 seems to know a lot about how to construct a proper article, so I would suggest that you guys listen to him. --Scaryice 04:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The encyclopedia contains lots of lists. I would argue that this list for Adu is relevant at the time given his age and interest in and discussions about what he is accomplishing. A goal in a friendly (and maybe especially against a top-notch foreign team) is just as interesting in this regard. Personally, I would love to see lists of goals for famous players before that information is lost to time. My discussions above with Batmann2005 centered on listing PKs, which we compromised on. He may not be excited by this list, but has let it stand til now. Sammyj 17:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

JoJo

I've seen that info been on and off the article. Can someone put the source of the article if there was a break-up. I haven't been aware of any break-up article on the main networks (CNN, TSN, CTV, etc) and I haven't noticed anything abotu it on Google search (as of Friday October 6). I've tagged it on the JoJo article requiring a citation. I may have miss it, but one should put the dating and if break-up indeed, mention it with source. Thank you!--JForget 21:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why people keep erasing it. I haven't heard anything about a breakup though. --Awiseman 22:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

This is so frustrating, people keep deleting it. Here's a post article that says it. [1]. If this keeps happening I'm going to ask for protection on the article. --Awiseman 16:55, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, don't delete it. This is ridiculous. I made a new personal life section, hopefully that will stay. --AW 10:05, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

That post article doesnt say anything about them breaking up... but Im not gonna delete it because you will probably just put it back up and ask for protection for no reason.Zib 05:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah uh, that article actually says there still together, so...-jakej

Euh! The article here doesn't said they are uncoupled [2]--JForget 03:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that Olympiakos will buy Adu for 17 million euro or something.

Age

Am no wikipedia user but I just want to notice that it says to the right of the page under picture that he is 37 years old? Must be an error there cus it says hes born in 1969 instead of 1989. As i check what was written inside the article i saw it had 1989 on those lines.. So how come it says 1969 then? If someone could fix this it would be nice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.167.33.134 (talk • contribs)

Eligibility for Ghana

"He has so far played only one friendly international for the USA men's national team, and until he appears in a competitive international match, is still eligible to switch allegiances and play for Ghana." - I'm not an expert, but I don't think this is how this works. There are several players who play at u-21 level for one country and are not allowed to change later on. A cap is a cap, regardless whether it was a freindly or not.

I remember reading somewhere FIFA had a kind of amnesty, where u-21 capped players could switch, but the deadline has long since passed. In my opinion Adu is now limited to the USA team only. Grunners 18:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

That's totally incorrect. Until a player appears in a competitive match for a country they can switch at any time. If a 30 year old Mexican American plays in friendly matches for Mexico and then is offered a spot with the USA team he is allowed to play for that team. Of course the player must have citizenship in both countries, but once a player plays in a competitive match, they are tied to that team for good. Since Adu only played in a friendly he could still play for Ghana if he wanted. Batman2005 03:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

69.113.135.51 06:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)actually no, the match Adu played in was an A international. According to Fifa rules, if you play in an A international, you're cap-tied.

You're totally wrong, Adu is not tied to the United States team. If he were then ESPN and Fox Soccer Channel would NOT be reporting that Michael Essien is STILL trying to get him to play for Ghana. Adu is still eligible to play for either country. Check your facts bud. Batman2005 02:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

69.113.135.51 14:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC) These are the facts, the rules for being cap tied are as follows. Play in an A-international with a national team. Adu has done that, according to the rules, he is captied. It seems Michael Essien does not know these rules. I think people think that because the Canada match wasn't on T.V. it wasn't a "proper" match, it was. There was a crowd and everything but T.V.

We'll just go with the knowledge that you don't know what you're talking about. First off the game was on TV, I sat on my couch and watched it. Secondly i'll choose to believe the various commentators and pundits who clearly state that Adu can still switch, as well as referencing the FIFA website clearly shows that you are wrong. Batman2005 16:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

204.193.129.160 03:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)First of all, the U.S. vs Canada match in which Adu played was not on T.V.

It was on TV, and I just popped the DVD of it I recorded into the DVD player and, lo and behold there is Freddy Adu entering the game. Hmmm. Interesting, how do I have the DVD of the game if it wasn't on TV...wow, i'm good. 75.2.9.78 03:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Second of all, here are the official FIFA rules for a player to be cap-tied.

http://www.fifa.com/documents/enwiki/static/regulations/Statutes_09_2005_EN.pdf p. 60.

Article 15 Principle 1 Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player who assumes a new nationality and for whom par. 3 of this article does not apply, or for any Player who would, in principle, be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Association due to his nationality. 2 As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another Association team. 3 If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply: (a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. 'A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A" international level for his current Association and if at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions. '

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/results/resultsindex.html?currPage=24 the January 22nd match in which Adu played will be listed. On the bottom of the page it saysNOTE: List of FIFA "A" Matches available from 01-01-1985,and will be updated weekly. This compilation includes all matches which were notified to FIFA by the national associations. Due to non-compliance in some cases, this list may not be complete(not complete as in their may be A matches not on the list, the USA- Canada match is on the list of A matches however)

Additionally on this site http://www.rdasilva.demon.co.uk/football.html the USA- Canada match is listed under "2006 All 'A' Internationals"

and btw, is there any way you can rip that game with adu playing to the computer? I'd like to see Adu's first national team match. There was a torrent made of the radio call of the game. Because the match was not on T.V. Though maybe it was on T.V. if you say it was. I'd just like to see it.

Do we have any kind of an independent article discussing FIFA regs on player nationality, the history of nationality and dual nationality in football, and issue of "mercenaries" (and accusations of such), and so on? I'm starting to think we should start a co-operative article along the lines of Nationality in football (soccer) if there isn't something similar already. Bill Oaf 03:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

controversy section

Hi, i edited the Controversy section to make it have no point of view in it. If you feel it is still expressing point of view please edit it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olir (talk • contribs)

The section isn't sourced, which is why I removed it - thus it appears to be your opinion. You can't say things like "many fans believe..." unless you have a valid source. I am going to remove it again, and please don't add it back unless you have sources for that section. See your talk page for more about this please. --AW 18:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Ive added a couple of references, not sure how to make them neat.Olir 18:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the attempt to reference the section (and for signing your post). However, they don't really say what the section does - they don't say anything about him being "stolen" by rich countries, nor do they say anything like "Many fans believe this to be a fast growing deadly problem that international football is going to face". I appreciate your efforts, but the section as it's written now doesn't belong. Sorry. --AW 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Real Salt Lake

Wasn't Adu traded to Real Salt Lake? Zarif 00:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

yesUser:Jakejose

Nowak

Was it Nowak's own assertion that Ajax has an established youth academy as opposed to Manchester United, or is it the view of the author(s)? I feel that this isn't made clear. Also, I think that anybody can see that Manchester United has a youth academy to match any other, making the assertion somewhat dubious.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.222.10.113 (talk • contribs).

I agreeJake22 03:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree, I think Ajax and Arsenal have the most renowned academies, then there is very much a medium among the top class teams, and a few fallen teams such as Forest and Southampton who still have their esteemed academies. Anon

"Is regarded as" vs "has been called"

In my mind, "is regarded as" is a loaded with pov. Is regarded as by whom? The author of the source? Well, just because somebody wrote it, doesn't make it so. If somebody wrote that "Freddy Adu is the best player to ever play the game" we SURELY would not post that here. We would say "according to _______ blah, blah, blah." This case is no different. An author has said that Adu is "regarded as one of the most exciting young players in the world," I don't care if we include it...but we can't simply say that he "is regarded as...." because that's textbook pov. A better solution would be to post the authors name and say "according to so and so..." or "has been called..." to eliminate pov and bias. I can guarantee you that I can find as many sources saying that Adu is overhyped and not nearly as good as he was made out to be...yet if those were added Drsmoo would delete them immediately and claim I was pushing my pov. I have pushed NO pov in my edits...I have merely acted to eliminate the pov from the existing article. I highly doubt that Drsmoo will engage in any legitimate or constructive discussion here, so perhaps others will have opinions as we work towards a consensus and not just Drsmoo's way or the highway. Batman2005 23:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The Sources who say he's overhyped tend to be people like Darrenn Rovell who admit to never watching MLS. You can ask the Celtic defense whether they think he's overhyped. Or the celtic fans on their forum who said he was too good to sign with them(a champions league team) after he played them. Maybe Alex Ferguson. Or the Brazillian U-20 team who lined up for his autograph after their U-20 match. Or the La Liga red who requested his autograph when Salt Lake played the Real Madrid reserves. Or when he played in a world charity match, the youngest player selected and the best performer on Team Ronaldo.

Anyway I changed it to something less POV which is accurate. Drsmoo 01:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• I agree with the first poster (Batman) in his assertion that the way it is currently is POV. I would also say that it is blatant agenda pushing, we're basically asserting that wikipedia only accepts this person's opinion on Adu by saying that he is "regarded" and not "has been called" or "(authors name) believes that..." I believe that, in these situations, where the material is highly divisive, to show WHERE the quotation is coming from. Saying that he is "widely regarded" is original research. Just as your (Drsmoo) examples given above. My reccomendation would be to put something such as "Adu has been called one of the most exciting young players in the world by (insert the authors name)". Additionally, I think Batman should seek to include some other information, which would serve to tone down the overall POV/fanpage atmosphere on this page. I too have read quite a few articles which state that Adu is overrated and overhyped. Those should be added to balance out the article. 208.40.242.41 01:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Please sign your comment with four tildes, or be a registered user, not just an IP adress, thanks. Drsmoo 01:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow! What do you know, Batman2005 sends me a message, and then this Ip sends me a message that he's commented, and thinks Batman2005 is right and Batman 2005 should make more changes. Batman2005 is from Indiana, 208.40.242.41 happens to be from Indiana too, Batman2005 is in university and lives in Indiana, 208.40.242.41 is from the same location as Indiana University, what a coincidence! Drsmoo 02:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• First off Smoo there is no rule against being an IP editor and not being a registered user. Secondly, I am in CARMEL, INDIANA. IU is in BLOOMINGTON....roughly 100 miles away. Just because Iam from Indiana...and so is another user does not mean that we are one in the same. Rather than lobbing thinly vieled personal attacks at me. You'll also notice that I agreed in part with YOUR point as well as Batmans point. Until wikipedia requires all users to be registered, i'll continue to edit in any way I see fit. Perhaps instead of leaving these attack messages, you should look at things objectively and try to consider anothers point of view. 208.40.242.41 04:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing our how curious it is that Batman2005(who lives in Indiana, and posts alot on Wikipedia) leaves a comment on my discussion page that he's going to make a topic. An hour later someone who seems to know many of the rules of Wikipedia, yet from contribution history has never edited before, (nothing but what he posted on my discussion and in this discussion) just comes straight from the start posting about the rules. and from the same state as Batman2005, posts in my discussion section that he's commented here(why?) and not on Batman2005(the guy who made this topic and would probably be more interested)'s board. And agreeing with Batman completely and saying he should do more. Also calling me "smoo" is weird as well. Drsmoo 05:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I also think it's curious that I'm over 70% water Drsmoo 06:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, we should remember to Assume good faith. With regards to these being 208.40.242.41's first edits, I should suggest the possibility that the user has a dynamic I.P. I, for example, have my IP change every time I connect to the internet. I would rather it not be that way, but it is beyond my control, so if I ever make an edit signed out by accident, the chances are it appears that it was my first ever signed-out edit.

Right. Now, onto the subject at hand.

I must admit I am a fan of Adu, and have been following his progress for years. He is certainly one of the most well-known young players in the world right now, and there is a lot of buzz about everything he does. Consider LA Galaxy. It is gaining a lot of press right now because of the whole Beckham thing. Indeed, outside of the US, it is probably the most well-known MLS team at the moment. Does that mean it is also the best? No.

So, it is important to make the distinction on whether he is the best, or whether certain people consider him the best. To say that he is "regarded as one of the most exciting young players in the world", and then to provide just one source for that, is ridiculous. If I provided one source saying Michael Ricketts is one of the best players in England, would I be able to say that he "is regarded as one of the best players in England"? Probably not.

What I would be able to do, and what perhaps should be done here is something along these lines:

Adu is regarded by some/many as one of the most promising young players in the world. [references 1, 2, 3 e.t.c.]

The word "Exciting" is not something that had been mentioned above, but it is inherently POV (and ambiguous). Not every person who likes football finds people who run a lot exciting. Some people prefer accurate long passes, or long shots, e.t.c.

The word should be changed to "promising", which is a lot ambiguous. I will make that change after this post, I think.

But the more references that can be found for him being one of the most promising, the better. There are a lot of young players in the world right now, and Adu's progress has slowed down a bit in the past couple of years. There are now a lot of players that could be considered more promising, such as Kerlon, Nicolás Millán, Gonzalo Higuaín, Marcelo, Theo Walcott, Andrés Guardado, Aaron Lennon, Oscar Ustari, Carlos Vela, Sergio Agüero, and so on. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 07:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The reference provided[3] is over a year old, and one of the article's authors subsequently wrote a more measured assessment of Adu in the same publication[4]. The hype has died down over the past year,[5] to the extent that at present commentators and the media are portraying him only as one the most promising young players in the MLS: [6] [7]. The lead ought to reflect this. Also, we need to be careful to avoid presenting opinions without ascribing them to a source, per WP:WEASEL. --Muchness 08:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

What's ironic about the "hype dying down this past year" is that this year he's done extremely well against Celtic, well against Real Madrid, impressed Man Utd. And is playing well in MLS. Your link doesn't work, but the cached article is is wrong as Ferguson said Manutd is tracking Adu they can't sign him until he's 18 they said he impressed and theyll watch him. Most foreign commentators don't know American players without Eu passports can't sign in Europe until they're 18 and don't watch MLS and ,and niether do most domestic commentators. You see an article from a bbc writer saying Adu is a prodigy, than a year later saying maybe he's not he hasn't signed in Europe, yet the guy hadn't watched an mls game when he praised him and hadn't watched an MLS game when he dissed him. Darren Rovell writes that Adu is a failure because he isn't on sportscenter enough. That his only basis of critique as he admits that he doesn't watch MLS.

A scholarly article shouldn't cite anyone's opinion. It should just present facts. We don't need to say, some people regard him as one of the most exciting prospects. It should say, the 17 year old scored and showed his skill against the first string of champions league celtic. Rather than use an opinion to say he a top prospect use facts. We don't need to cite anyones opinions. Drsmoo 07:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I just thought I'd mention that I have, just now, been able to access each link in Muchness' post without issue. Perhaps the one you mentioned as not working is inaccessible to US IP addresses? --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 07:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Drsmoo, please see the WP:NPOV policy, which states: "All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), representing fairly and without bias all significant views (that have been published by reliable sources)." Citing viewpoints from reliable sources to represent significant views about a subject is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia. The problem with article in its current for is that it is representing one viewpoint ("Adu is regarded by many as one of the most promising young players in the world"), substantiated by an outdated reference. --Muchness 08:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

look at the Ronaldinho article, nothing about him being regarded was one of the best players in the world, it says how he's won World player of the year. Facts rather than opinions. Perhaps we should include that Adu was nominated for FIFPRO young player of the year in 2005(in 2006 there were only 5 nominations) If we want to use opinions, we could use this more recent one http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=7237 Drsmoo 08:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

"Perhaps we should include that Adu was nominated for FIFPRO young player of the year in 2005"

Yes! That would be perfect, especially if we link to a list of those nominations, possibly from the FIFPro website.

I think the problem most of us had is that saying that he is exciting or whatever is POV (inherently, it is an opinion), and as User:Muchness says, our articles should strive to have a Neutral point of view, and (in an ideal article), citations for every statement. Just look at the amount of references in any featured article. So yes, if you want to include that he was nominated for FIFPro Young Player of the year in 2005, feel free to include it. And likewise, if he won/was nominated for any other reputable awards, those could be included too. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 10:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Saying that he "showed his skill against celtic" is pov too. The article should contain ONLY facts. If we say he was nominated for an award, it shouldn't say "due to his skill and whatever else he was nominated for _________." It should say "Adu was nominted for ________." Additionally, Drsmoo...he wasn't THAT good against Madrid, and if he had so impressed Man Utd, he would be being mentioned in their transfer plans....in fact, if you read past articles on several Man Utd fansites, you'll see that Adu was not THAT impressive during his two-week trial. But, you're probably totally unwilling to look at anything Adu related objectively. Batman2005 22:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

All I said was that he played well against Real Madrid. He beat 3 defenders including Roberto Carlos to set up a goal. You insulted me on my discussion page, and said I wouldn't hold a civil argument(for some reason.) Now you're insulting me here. he can't be in transfer plans as they can't sign him until he's 18. Anything he did sign would be non binding and worthless. It was a training stint, and both Ferguson and Adu commented that it went well and that they would monitor him. They are the only official sources to comment. I didn't see any articles based on anything substantive in any Manutd sites. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drsmoo (talk • contribs).

Well Drsmoo, take your own advice and sign your posts...i'm sure you know how. You appear to be the only one impressed that he played well against a Celtic team with nothing to play for, a Real Madrid team that was as disinterested in the game as I've ever seen in my entire life. And no, I didn't insult you...apparently I was exactly right. You've proven yourself both unable to hold a civil discussion and/or accept anothers viewpoint. There is overwhelming support here for my viewpoint that saying that he is widely regarded as anything is pov. Why can't you just admit you were wrong and get over yourself? Batman2005 13:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

You can see the Celtic fans reactions. They were certainly impressed http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/celtic-chat/11663-celtic-vs-dc-united-offical-thread-4-threads-merged.html http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/celtic-chat/11836-celtic-after-adu.html

I've been nothing but civil in this discussion. If you had read my comment, you would see that I don't think there should be any opinions on this article,only facts. An example of what I'm talking about would be the Ronaldinho article. As I said before a scholarly article should cite concrete facts. We don't need to say, some people regard him as one of the most exciting prospects. Rather than use an opinion to show his status as a prospect, use facts. The Ronaldinho article doesn't state that Ronaldinho is considered one of the best players in the world. (the same with the Christiano Ronaldo article) It shows that through facts . this article should do the same. There should be as little POV as possible. Drsmoo 16:27, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we should revise the article, and fill it with as many facts, and as few POV things as possible. Drsmoo 17:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I've made edits in an attempt to remove POV and extraneous information, and leave as many facts as possible. Feel free to revert or change obviously. Drsmoo 17:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Good job. Added something back but more informative about trip to Italy. AlbertHall 17:49, 16 May 2007 (UTC)