Talk:List of Philadelphia Flyers players

"There is no such thing as an English spelling of Finnish proper names."

Funny, the Philadelphia Flyers themselves seem to disagree with you.[1] RGTraynor 13:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Not really. They simply join other NHL teams and most of the North American media in not being aware of the fact. Writing "Pitkanen" instead of "Pitkänen" is just as wrong as writing "Hatcher" instead of "Pitkänen". Then again, I recall I've already tried to tell you this, and you wouldn't accept the idea that someone else on Wikipedia may have some knowledge of a subject. Elrith 05:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a pity you have trouble with the idea that there are people who just plain disagree with you -- or, for that matter, couch your comments without insult -- but considering that includes every NHL team, the Hall of Fame, the Hockey News and the rest of the North American media, I'm wondering what your credentials are for claiming that you know better than every notable English-language source out there how names are spelled in English. RGTraynor 09:01, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The hypocrisy of your opening statement is breathtaking; no less so, though, than the fact that your user page says the following: " I see no reason why grammar usages of thirty years ago have become suddenly invalid because today's typists are lazy sods", but you resolutely maintain the opposite when it comes to Finnish proper names. I can't understand how you don't see a conflict between opposing bad grammar even though it's widespread and supporting bad spelling because it's widespread. Then again, nothing demonstrates your grasp of reality better than your idea that this is somehow a North American Wikipedia (your user page reference to "European Wikipedias" as something other than en.wikipedia). Given these kinds of statements, you'll forgive me for not taking conversations with you seriously, or indeed for continuing this one. Feel free to edit any way you like; I have very little hope you'll ever even understand the issue at hand. Elrith 12:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

If you do, however, decide to re-evaluate your stance on this, see: Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Anglo-American focus and consider your idea that this is somehow not a European Wikipedia. Given that the players we are talking about are Finns, and this is indeed not a North American Wikipedia, I think your opposition to Finnish-language spelling of Finnish-language names falls squarely under "Anglo-American focus" as described in the linked article. I'm so tired of all the arguing that I'm taking a Wikivacation, so my input into this conversation is going to have to end here. Elrith 14:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

My opposition to Finnish-language spelling of Finnish-language names comes down to nothing more than the fact that this isn't the Finnish-language Wikipedia. As I've observed before (and verified myself with some navigational help from my Finnish-English grammar), the Finnish-language Wikipedia doesn't hesitate one fraction of an instant in rendering English proper names into the forms and usages customary to Finnish, ignoring without comment or hesitation English's own usages. That this observation has been met with stony silence from you and your ilk ought not surprise me, I suppose. Now to follow their customary linguistic practices on the Wikipedia written in their own language seems to me to make perfect sense. The same applies here. The only catch is in the various national versions of English, but you've failed to provide any major outside source for the spelling of such names in any national variation of English that backs up your position, however much you're yearning to turn this into a partisan debate.

Now when the North American media, the NHL, the hockey establishment and the various hockey teams begin to employ diacriticals in their own publications and media, that will constitute an outside consensus, and the articles here should then reflect that. In the meantime, I trust that your wikibreak will be spent in part trying to convince those parties of your credentials as the ultimate arbiter of the English language. Good fortune in that. RGTraynor 08:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Neither the Flyers or the NHL are any sort of authority on people's names. Only the people themselves are. And I think very much that Joni Pitkänen prefers his name to be spelled Pitkänen. JIP | Talk 16:29, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Could people please stop reverting the article to the incorrectly spelled version? Writing someone's name incorrectly out of ignorance is no problem, but maintaining that that spelling is correct and the person's native spelling is wrong is blatant arrogance. I would protect the article but it would count as abuse of my AdministrativePower®. Shouldn't there be an overall discussion about whether people's names should be written in their native form or in the way Merkins write them? And why is this only ever a matter with ice hockey players? There are thousands of articles about other people, with foreign letters in their names, and everyone is happy with them. Why single out ice hockey players? JIP | Talk 16:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Would people please stop calling the english spelling incorrect? Masterhatch 00:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a matter Wikipedia-wide, widely discussed in many venues, as you either know or should well know. Further, despite your attempt to categorize this as an Ugly American issue, not one of the language warriors who've attempted to impose their own partisan POVs on how the English language works has ever found a single prominent or pertinent English-language source for their assertions, never mind anywhere remotely close to a consensus. I've said considerably more above, but what is arrogant, sir, is your attempt to dictate how English should be rendered -- consensus be damned -- and suggest that you'd love to unilaterally protect the article to reflect your own POV. RGTraynor 05:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)