Talk:British undergraduate degree classification

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Percentages of students recieving the degrees

It would make sense to report what percentages of students recieve the different grades. The article does state, that approximately 20% recieve a 3rd degree and 10% recieve a 1st degree, but what about a 2:1 and a 2:2. Are these two groups equally big, meaning that those who recieve a 2:1 is the best 45%? - Marc K 19:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Generally the proportions are roughly:

1st - top 10%
2:1 - next 50%
2:2 - next 30%
3rd - bottom 10%

But this varies from university to university. 129.12.200.49 16:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Conversion between GPA and honours classification

As an American student interested in pursuing a postgraduate degree in England, I am confused about the conversions of this system. Is there a cooresponding GPA (grade point average) and honours classification?

Check out [1] - FrancisTyers 30 June 2005 18:10 (UTC)

Roughly speaking I think generally a first is considered to a 3.7 or greater GPA, and a 2.1 is 3.3 or greater. BovineBeast 20:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second class degrees

Who are these employers that distinguish between 1st/2:1 and 2:2 and below? - FrancisTyers 8 July 2005 14:10 (UTC)

Just a general thing. A job ad might specify a 2:1 or above. That just happens to be where the line is commonly drawn. - 81.174.247.96 00:08, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard of employers specifying 2:1 but 2:2 would be fine with the appropriate skill set. I've never heard anyone refer to a 2:2 as a drinkers degree. I think this particular part is too cut and dry. The truth is less clear cut. (lol, cutting). - FrancisTyers 08:13, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The "Drinkers Degree" section is inaccurate and degrading. "Icairns" needs to do his homework before saying such a thing. People with 2:2s can succeed on POSTGRADUATE degree courses. There are schoolteachers with Third Class Degrees ..... only a fool would write these people off. One woman on my degree course got a Third Class Degree, and she wasn't stupid at all. You can't judge someone solely on their degree classification

I got a 2:2 and I'm on a Postgrad course. I knew people who were doing Postgrad study with a 3rd. It really depends on the number of enrolments and the quality of your dissertation I think. Particularly since its possible to tell where you screwed up in your academic transcript. - FrancisTyers 17:00, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To me it appears that the term "drinker's degree" used in the Guardian link is referring to a 3rd class degree. Although it could be taken to refer to a 2:2 depending on how you choose to interpret it. I have heard it used to describe a 2:2 before. I scraped a 2:1 yesterday woohoo! Well it was Maths, fricking hard work I can tell you. 86.10.102.39 06:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The term "drinkers degree" is in common use across the UK both in universities and the workplace, the fact some people don't like it is irrelevant. If wikipedia is to represent a full body of knowledge it should be included. (Boddah 12:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC))[reply]

I agree with Boddah - The term "drinker's degree" was common at the University of Sussex when I graduated in 2005. The 2:2 was also referred to as the "Sportsman's", as the Wednesday away games and partying of a Uni sports team-member tended to impact on study time. It was considered a forgone conclusion that the captain of any team was doomed to a 2:2, as they were expected at every social event, without fail.

Has anyone else heard of the 2:2 referred to as a "Sportsman's"? Unclejimbo83 09:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Who are these employers that distinguish between 1st/2:1 and 2:2 and below?" The legal profession definitely seems to distinguish. I went to a Law Society recruitment event in London recently and there were some very disappointed students.The speaking panel made up of City lawyers all agreed that if you wanted to work for a City legal firm you would need to meet a minimum standard of 2.1.

Countries using this system

The first paragraph ends with "It is similar to the Latin honors system used in North America" however this 'British' system is used in Canada and not the Latin honors used in the USA. I have no knowledge of how degrees in Mexico (the other country in North America) are classified.

I don't really know what is used in Canada. I've attended convocations at four different Canadian universities (including my own) and have seen nothing with the level of complexity of either the American or British system.

Typically a distinction is made between "honours" and "general" degree programs, where only the former is suitable as a prerequisite for graduate work. Often, graduates with averages above some threshold are also granted special recognition, e.g. "with distinction" or "dean's honours list". There are usually a couple medals or awards for really outstanding graduates.

I suppose this resembles the British system more than the American: however, I've never heard of the level of stratification seen in the British system. --Saforrest 17:42, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rhyming slang

"An interesting form of rhyming slang has developed from degree classes, relying on the names of famous people that sound similar to the classes"

Perhaps I am just pig-ignorant, but are there any references for this? I've never heard of them, and "'2:1' sounds like 'Attila the Hun'" just sounds... bizarre.

--Telsa 16:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of "Attila the Hun", but I've heard of the others. Damien/Desmond/etc. - FrancisTyers 16:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

this guardian article references "Desmond" at least - FrancisTyers 16:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Mr Magoo"? This one doesn't even sound particularly like the thing it's meant to reference. Evidence of use? TSP 23:08, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, I've deleted it. For interested parties, try putting "got a desmond" into google. - FrancisTyers 23:45, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of an "Attila" - but I can confirm the others are all well-used. In my day a third was a Richard and a 2:1 was a Simon (le Bon).

Third Class Degrees

"Few third class degrees are in fact awarded [...] It is therefore rare for a graduating class to include more than a small handful of Thirds."

This seems like too broad a generalisation. Certainly in science subjects at my university (Durham) thirds were fairly common - probably (vying with firsts) the smallest classification, but certainly not rare enough to justify the above description. I understand that thirds (and firsts) are much rarer in arts and social sciences, however. Does anyone have aggregated statistics on the number of degrees of each class given each year? A brief bit of research suggests that the volume "Students in Higher Education Institutions", published each year by HESA, would have the information in; but I don't think it's online. TSP 22:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Kenya?

it states in the article "In Kenya, there are First Class Honours, Second Class Honours Upper Divisions and Lower Divisions and Pass instead of Third Class." Is this relevant considering its an article about the British Undergraduate degree classification?Alex 02:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Diploma

I am very doubtful about the latest addition about the diploma. Here no "consolation prize" is given if you fail the 3rd year. Someone from Britain may confirm? Maybe editors can cite their sources or give examples of universities who act this way? i.e. an undergraduate course supposedly leading to a degree giving out certificates and diplomas. VodkaJazz 19:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is not so much a consolation prize for someone who fails their exams, but is intended as an exit point for those who do not wish to progress further. Davidkinnen 21:20, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notation

Two different forms of notation are used in this article for second class honours. The first is used almost throughout - the 2:2 and 2:1 notation, the other is used in the non-bulleted portion of the "Undergraduate degree honours slang" section - 2:i and 2:ii. Elsewhere, I have seen 2:2 written as II.2. Why are there different forms of notation? Do different universities use different notation? If not, what is the "correct" notation? 86.137.199.185 13:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think probably they're all acceptable. My university uses IIA and IIB in its exam results, which is completely different. But everyone still calls it a 2.1 and a 2.2. BovineBeast 09:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Attilla???

Never heard of an Attilla the Hun – has someone just made this up?!

I thought that a 2:1 was the only one without a rhyming slang alternative. 195.188.183.124 13:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rachel Orr?

Who is Rachel Orr and there is any objective evidence (i.e. from the Cambridge University Reporter) that she got a triple starred first? I'd also like more substantive evidence of Maurice Zinkin's triple starred first than a Telegraph obituary. Pmcray

I'm with you on the Rachel Orr point; IMHO we should just delete that point as non-notable and lacking sources unless someone comes up with something soon. OTOH, I think the Telegraph should sufficiently research its sources to meet WP:V --Harris 12:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How is it possible to obtain a triple starred first? Surely degrees like history do not have a part III?

At Cambridge, all subjects except history and english have examinations at the end of every year. There is typically Part IA in first year, Part IB in second year and Part II in third year. For some subjects this is Part I, Part IIA and Part IIB. Some subjects such as physics are a four year course, so I suppose it's possible for someone to actually get a quadruple starred first.

Degree classification boundries

Is it not common for degree classifications to be calculated as:

>=70% - 1st
60-69% - 2:1
50-59% - 2:2
45-49% - 3rd
40-44% - Pass
<40% - Fail

I'm sure there are Universities that do not use this system and there are some that base you overall mark more on your work over the course of the degree than the exams but is this not the system used in the majority of universities in the UK? Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article? --AlexSpurling 11:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's fairly normal. Plus at Oxbridge ~25% get a first, so it can't be entirely based on percentile. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BovineBeast (talk • contribs) 12:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Suffixing 'Hons'

When a candidate is awarded a degree with honours, adding '(Hons)' is an unofficial practice and not part of the official degree designation. As a compromise I have left out the reference to it being an affection which I agree is POV. BlueValour 17:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But surely it's no more 'unofficial' than abbreviating the degree to BA in the first place since there aren't any 'official' abbreviations. My uni certainly used the (Hons) suffix in the titles of their courses, though of course my degree certificate has the full 'Bachelor of Arts with Honours'. My postgrad uni did the same. - Green Tentacle 22:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good reference source for article

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0749444835/ref=A9/?%5Fencoding=UTF8&keywords=%22third%20class%22%20degree%20pass%20honours&p=S030&checkSum=LZvZ%2bVwSHFZrYJ1gJc80vy9xPm6kx%2b2r%2fFm9ehI0H8U= Bwithh 02:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neil Ascherson's triple first

Neil Ascherson only did History, which means it would have only been possible to get a double first. Is there any evidence he got a triple first? A UK Student forum member apparently emailed Kings and they said he only got a double first: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-237719.html Unadopted 16:49, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Drinker's degree

A minor point, but the article refers to a Third as being called a Drinker's Degree, and provides an appropriate reference. However, in this case the reference is wrong. A quick google search suggests that a 2:2 is commonly referred to as a Drinker's Degree. The author of the Guardian article got it wrong.--Victim Of Fate 13:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]