Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests

To make a general request for assistance, please place your name and a brief (a few sentences) description of the issue you need help with at the bottom. Resolved, stale and other old discussions are archived.

Assistants: Please tag each settled request as {{resolved}}; all other requests should be marked as {{stale}} after ten days of inactivity. A thread can be archived after being tagged for two days.

Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon article

I need some assistance with the Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon article. An anon IP and user account Landau7 are vandalizing portions of the article and removing information. I discuss this on the article's talk page itself[1][2][3][4]. I believe that there's an attempt to bully me from the page because of the unfavourable, but verifiable, information I have put up on this group's article. I am a good faith editor who is trying to make sure that all sides of the issue are being addressed fairly, however, I think that the editors in question want to make the article read more like a religious tract. If one reads the first archive on the talk page, Landau7 has a tendency to try to get my emotions involved and I've decided to keep it cool this time after the advice of a fellow editor, Alastair Haines.

Because I suspect the identity is the group's leader himself, I do not expect this process to really go anywhere. But I am going through the process because I've already filed two sock puppet reports on this individual in the past[5][6] and I was recommended to go through this process next time. The user has demonstrated that he has access to this religious group's "secret archive" about me, both under the Landau7 account and the anon IP account (if you look at http://www.nccg.org/archive/, you will find that people must have a password to post, but these two accounts are able to post articles from there liberally -- I discuss this on the talk page). I do not want to go through a repeat of what happened on the talk pages' archives, where I feel I must be pressured to give into them because of (what I think is) sock puppeting. He mentions an agreement I made some time back where I agreed to stay off this article, but I only said that because at the time, it effected both my mental and emotional health and I thought that I had no chance. I came back to the article later when I was over much of that and was able to make (what I feel) were more neutral edits. Part of the other reason I made this decision was because another former member on the talk page was making similar statements to my own and this made me feel relieved as I realized I wasn't posting a minority opinion. If one takes time to read the archives, they will find I was both bullied and pressured into believing that my contributions did not matter. Every little thing I contributed was nit-picked and poked apart whereas the edits of another anon IP (which points back to the group's HQ in Sweden) and Landau7's own edits were left alone or ignored.

The edits being disputed largely involve the comments I made in the Garden subsection of the Beliefs section in the article text itself. Each of these edits were backed using the religious group's own website and materials, but after the anon IP vandalism, were immediately removed from the group's site itself in order to kill my sources. I restored them on my own site, but then deleted them a day later to avoid legal complications and because I found a Wikipedia policy that protected dead links. Landau7 has demonstrated his own subversive influence by removing a reference to a statement by cult specialist Mary Alice Crapo that refers to the group as a dangerous sect. I have the newspaper article which mentions this statement. I even linked to the group's own site where they reference the statement was indeed made.

If there's anything that's really needed, please feel free to post it on here or on my talk page. I really am desiring to follow Wikipedia protocol and sometimes, I have to learn the rules the hard way. However, I feel in regards to my edits, the rules are being used as a stick against me to justify Landau7's own edits. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of being the one to feel like my contribution does not matter, when the group has counselled its members[7][8] to keep a watchful eye on the article to ensure "accuracy". Personally, I think the accounts need to be blocked but do not want it to be percieved as harassment. However, due to the fact that I think the attacks are either from or being provoked by the group's leader itself, again, I do not expect this to go anywhere. I ask that people be weary of any manipulative or emotional attacks which may arise on Landau7 or other sympathiser's behalf (there's also uaasun/Lil'Dummy whom I know off-site and who has likewise tagteamed with Landau7 in the past, but he's largely backed off, I think).

I hope this helps. The reason I raised the issues on the talk page in the first place was so that other editors may be aware. However, I think from now on, in the future, I'm going to go through the resolution process, as I do not intend to drag it out like I did when I was more emotionally involved in the past. I only want this article to present all sides of the issue fairly, regardless of how I feel about the group or my own activism against it off-site. Drumpler 05:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I wrote this under the Landau7 Removing Unfavourable Material Section on the article's talk page:

I did a trace route on the IP that I thought was from the Netherlands and it traced it right back to Sweden[9], TeliaNet, the location of the person who initially wrote the underlying text for most of this article[10] and likewise the location of the group's known compound[11]. I think it is settled and would recommend a trace route on the Landau7 account. If one reads the archives, they will find that Landau7 dispassionately referred to 81.224.220.232 as an anon-IP and tracing back will show if this is true. The other possibility is a sockpuppet/meatpuppet as the purposes are the same. I have decided on dispute resolution with another editor to see what s/he says and will not file any reports until then. This likewise gives Landau7 an opportunity to explain himself. Drumpler 07:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Isn't this abuse? I'm going through this process to get a fresh pair of eyes, so do not want to file any reports until I get a clearer perspective on it. Drumpler 07:58, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Just Noticed Your Message

So it isn't really stale. ;) Drumpler 15:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed the stale tag. Hope this "relaunch" can bring all of you back to business. --Deryck C. 16:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Interesting convos between Aartika and I are here and here. Landau7 has played various games in the past to protect both vandalous and unverifiable edits (some games he has played was acting as a Wikipedia admin, pretending to be a "neutral editor" when in fact he's the group's own leader, recruit others and created special interest accounts to protect his own edits, etc.). He has made attacks on my own character within the text of the Mishpachah Lev-Tsiyon article in the past, which I have removed. This is explained in detail in the long section above. Drumpler 05:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

BTW, links 1, 2, 3, 4 in that long section are in the second archive on the article's talk page. I moved them there when it seemed pointless, but I'm thankful that now people are looking at my case. :) Drumpler 05:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Notable Enough?

I was wondering if this page is notable enough for Mishpachah_Lev-Tsiyon#The_Garden? I'm not asking so much for myself as I am for Landau7. He recently tried to reinsert this link but I deleted it because I felt his reasons for doing so weren't NPOV(diff). He likewise has tried to insert this link in the past in an attempt to vandalise (diff). It would seem he's trying to use an "NPOV tone" to assassinate me. What do you think?

And so it is known, I'm the Derek Rumpler being discussed on that page. Drumpler 08:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello? Anyone there? A simple yes or no to my question would suffice. :) Drumpler 17:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The link you refer to doesn't load for me. --Aarktica 17:31, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Patience is a virtue, Derek ;) Your edit from yesterday was lost to my watchlist (and therefore, probably to others) thanks to more recent edits at the end of the page. To your question; that external link is totally inappropriate, given its content. Even with your understandable desire to remove it because of its personal content, it should be removed. Notability is not really relevant to external links, though, just for the record. If you get into an edit war over it, go to 3O (although I won't respond to that because of this discussion, but someone else will). Re the archiving; we archive this page regularly, so the previous content of this section will need to be included in that. Probably wasn't a good idea to archive it of your own accord. Adrian M. H. 17:35, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I was actually trying to make your guy's job easier. ;) I restored everything from the archive. Now, how do I delete that archive? LOL. Drumpler 00:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Where do I go in cases where 3O does not apply? I hate to say this, but due to circumstances outside of Wikipedia, it is hard for me to assume good faith with the editor in question. I'm sure he feels likewise toward me (hence his vandalism). He has a tendency to game the system and if needed, I can provide several evidences of such behaviour. Drumpler 00:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd also like to add that the link in question really did not bother me and if it was good enough for Wikipedia (which Adrian deemed it wasn't), I would have kept it on the page. I'm just curious, of the thousand of "Garden experience" he could have chosen, why my own?

I have incorporated his edits where they have been verifiable. My desire is a neutral, NPOV article. Drumpler 00:42, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Need help on a couple of vanity articles

Hi, I've been alone in a struggle against repeated unsourced edits on Global Panel Foundation and on Prague Society for International Cooperation, two closely-related articles which I stumbled upon when I cleaned-up the autobio of their president Marc S. Ellenbogen. These articles are advertising and are fully unsourced. Every time I do a rv, someone from those organizations comes and restores the original text. I would appreciate if some kind fellow would help me here as I honestly don't know where next to take this. (I've always documented my rv's, either in the edit comments or in the Talk pages, so it's easy to see what's going on.) Thank you. --maf (talk-cont) 21:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd just list them for deletion. You might even try {{prod}} per G.11 and A.7. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:24, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Generally, speaking, I would not bother with Proposed Deletion when SD is not possible, but AfD instead. Prod tags can be removed freely (which these probably will because the articles are clearly being watched by someone with a vested interest). The AfD process is free of that shortcoming and, if successful, the deletion is (re-creation notwithstanding) essentially permanent. The procedure is more fiddly, but worth it. Adrian M. H. 11:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Right, what PROD works for is for unwatched pages, or pages so skimpy that they will be abandoned. Remember that PROD is not intended for controversial articles--it's clearly stated several times, so if there is reason to suspect controversy, it is necessary to go to AfD. (It's not speedy A7, since it asserts its importance, and G11 is only if there is no usable core.) These articles might be possible, suitably trimmed. It's hard to judge an article whose only references are to printed books in Czech, but that does meet the WP requirement for sourcing, as any language is acceptable if that's where the information is. Obviously there's no assurance that the material is in the book, but it is reasonable to ask for page numbers.

Suggest you wait a day so I can join in there. What is needed to overcome resistance to necessary editing of spammy articles is more than one person editing reasonably, so it doesn't become a revert war. (naturally the threat of deletion also does tend to help editing, but in my view it's a last resort, because it makes to much work for too many people--AfD lists are too long for proper attention as it is. Therefore, listing the material here was a good way to go. A more general consensus will help. (and if necessary, the way to attract even more community attention is RfC.) DGG 20:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I will take a step back. Thanks a lot for the comments. --maf (talk-cont) 22:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

It's been three days now, and the articles have stayed in their long-spammed form as I have pulled back. Other than User:DGG who said he will, is someone else willing to look at them now? Thank you. --maf (talk-cont) 12:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a look as well. If you believe that an editor to the article may have a conflict of interest, you may also wish to list the article on the conflict of interest noticeboard. Several editors and administrators who are experienced in dealing with such situations monitor this page. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 22:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer - I didn't know about WP:COIN - will xpost there as COI is effectively the central issue here. --maf (talk-cont) 23:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Status update:

• Not much help gathered on WP:COIN - only a 3RR warning (which never happened)
• User Ohconfucious tagged both articles as Spam
• User DGG cleaned-up Global Panel Foundation (ended up at basically the edit I've been holding on to) and removed the Spam tag
• User DGG removed the Spam tag on Prague Society for International Cooperation, probably fearing the article would be deleted then recreated, but did not do any edits

As I wrote initially, this is a long but slow-moving revert war - I expect one of the same editors, or a new one, related to the organizations to restore the full texts pretty soon. DGG, will you go back to review Prague Society for International Cooperation?

--maf (talk-cont) 14:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

User:DGG has now also reviewed the remaining article. Anyone else is invited to review this couple of unsourced vanity articles, otherwise case closed here. Thank you. --maf (talk-cont) 01:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murder

I'm involved in a content dispute at this rather contentious article. I'm having a very hard time dealing with Simplemines and massive assumptions of bad faith. Comments I've made have been misconstrued and personal attacks are par for the course on the talk page. I'd love some help dealing with this page, as I've had very little experience dealing with a high profile controversial article like this. There are arguments about reliable sources, bias, and appropriate content. It's going round in circles, and I just don't have the experience on how to deal with editors who refuse to assume good faith. We tried mediation, but it was rejected by one of the parties. Even comments to a user on "my side" of the debate telling him he was acting inappropriately were twisted to show my bias. Any help would really be appreciated. AniMate 21:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

If mediation has been ignored by one or more parties, there is little that one editor can do to change that other than to raise the issue to a more serious level, if it warrants it. You are probably already familiar with the advice at WP:DR, but I cannot suggest any more than that. WP:RFAR is described as a last resort, so it is up to you to decide whether it is worth pursuing. Adrian M. H. 14:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Deletion problems

I am trying to create a wikipedia page for the Pecos Conference and editors keep deleting my stub I do not understand.

I put the stub up and I have invited my colleagues to find it and contribute to it and edit it.

The Pecos Conference is not a club. It is a gathering of southwestern archaeologist who meet somewhere in the southwest each year to discuss research problems. These professional invite the public to attend the gathering. They have been doing this since 1927.

I put together the web pages for the pecos conference and have done so for the past dozen years. We want to have a wikipedia stub article that will grow and thus become a better source of information than the web pages we currently post each year.

I just dont understand why the stub gets deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.72.142 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll be blunt for a moment, if I may. How exactly does this subject matter meet or exceed Wikipedia's notability requirements? And if this article has been deleted more than once, you are only making more work for other hard-working editors by recreating it without making the necessary changes. Every article has to meet thresholds of notability and verifiability. Adrian M. H. 16:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

The article we're talking about is Pecos conference. It's been speedied once as a copyright violation (the text was just copyied from some website with no assertion of permission). Whether it's notable...perhaps let Wikipedia:Articles for deletion decide? It may well be, I'm no archaeologist. Moreschi ^Talk 19:09, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

If that went to AFD – even without copyright issues – it would probably be deleted as non-notable. It makes no effort to establish its notability and a web search revealed a plenty of hits but a paucity of those all-important non-trivial independent writings. I strongly suggest that the creating editor rewrite the article in his own words and find reliable third-party sources to verify the content in its entirety. Adrian M. H. 19:55, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

According to Adrian's claim, there is, although little, an appreciable amount of relevant items found from a web search. If that's the case, I'll help rewrite the article to conform with Wikipedia's writing standards. --Deryck C. 02:07, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The Pecos Conference is notable in the following ways:

There is a book published about the Pecos Conference by Richard B. Woodbury, a well known archaeologist: http://www.amazon.com/Sixty-Years-Southwestern-Archaeology-Conference/dp/0826314112/ref=sr_1_1/104-7704681-9201569?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180412146&sr=8-1 http://www.swanet.org/2007_pecos_conference/misc_articles/1996_Downum.pdf

There also have been recent articles written about the Conference 2005 by Grace Lichtenstein (New York Times) http://www.swanet.org/2007_pecos_conference/misc_articles/2005_Lichtenstein.pdf 2006 by Teresa Mendez (Christian Science Monitor) http://www.swanet.org/2007_pecos_conference/misc_articles/2006_Mendez.pdf

The Pecos Conference is regularly mentioned in the professional journal American Antiquity in the context of current and on-going research, and mentioned in textbooks and popular magazines like Archeology and Antiquity.

Every archaeology student in the United States is taught the importance of the Pecos Conference and Wikipedia even runs a page titled Pecos Classification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecos_Classification. The Pecos Classification came about because of the work of archaeologists meeting at the Pecos Conference. The conference remains important and notable today because it is an activity that organizes each year several million dollars worth of research and sets the standards for collaborative research that are emulated by archaeologists around the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.72.142 (talk • contribs) 04:27, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Then I am sure that you will have no trouble rewriting and referencing the article to meet the standards. Meeting or exceeding key policies and guidelines from the start is the simplest and most obvious way to avoid seeing your efforts deleted. Adrian M. H. 18:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Need help moving a page!

Resolved

 – --Aarktica 01:06, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello - I've been trying to fix the title of our school page for the Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy. Originally, it was listed as the Florida interactive entertainment academy (incorrect capitalization). In attempting to fix it, before figuring out the 'Move Page' functionality, I created a new page with the correct title (Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy) and copy-pasted the content. Because the new page now exists, however, I can no longer move the old, incorrect one. Can you please help me resolve this issue so only the one correctly-capitalized page exists and all links correctly point to it?

Thanks!

--Tectonic042

I made a redirect :), it's a bit dirty because you didn't moved, you copy and pasted, next time use the move tab (instruction about that can be sought at HELP:Move -- Esurnir 18:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

On second thought I'm gonna speedy delete the new page then move the historic there. -- Esurnir 18:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I fixed this history for you, but the article doesn't really assert encyclopedic notability, and it reads a little like a promotional effort for the school. I'm going to speedy delete it under CSD A7 and CSD G11. I'll be glad to restore the article, once you produce verifiable reliable sources, attesting the school's notability. Best wishes, Xoloz 23:21, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes. If you'd like evidence of the school's existence and accomplishments beyond the official site itself, allow me to point you to:

• The parent organization's descriptor page (the University of Central Florida's College of Arts & Humanities entry): http://www.cah.ucf.edu/departments/fiea.php
• A news article from the National Center for Simulation describing the opening/founding of the school: http://www.simulationinformation.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=2
• A news article from the St. Petersburg Times describing the school, its program construction and style, student experience, and working environments: http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/19/State/Gaming_for_school_cre.shtml
• An Orlando Sentinel article concerning the success of the Opera Slinger student game created at the school: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-ucfopera1907apr19,0,4725697.story
• Another article concerning the success of the Opera Slinger student-made game, this time from the official news article for the University of Central Florida: http://news.ucf.edu/UCFnews/index?page=article&id=002400415bc28a54010f97070b37007c47

In addition, there are links within Wikipedia already pointing to the page, specifically within the Orlando, Florida entry and the University of Central Florida entry.

Please let me know if you need any additional sources. I'd like to get this page restored (with correct capitalization) as soon as possible. Thank you for your time.

--Tectonic042

If you wish to recreate the article, I suggest that you work on it on a user sub-page or offline in a text editor; rewrite it in an appropriate tone to address G11 and use those sources in citations to address verifiability. Incidentally, existing wikilinks have no bearing on notability. Adrian M. H. 16:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, will do. I will rewrite the article in order to remove any instances of G11 violation and pursue a more encyclopedic tone. Thank you.

--Tectonic042

All set! The article has been re-written and replaced at its location at the Florida Interactive Entertainment Academy page with a more encyclopedic tone and a full references section. Thanks for pushing me to re-write it like this, actually - I think it looks far more professional, and reads well. Much more appropriate to Wikipedia. Hope you'll agree - and thank you again for your time. Oh, one more question - will all inquiries to the school now be re-directed to this page, including previous links to the older, incorrectly-capitalized entry?

--Tectonic042

• Yes. You can see what other articles in the encyclopedia point to the page in question by selecting the What Links Here link in the left hand pane on the article page entitled "toolbox". --Aarktica 20:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

My link apparently erased daily

Page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ightham_Mote#External_Links

I have added a link to my web site which contains five photographs of this historic property in Kent, England: Ightham Mote. Today is Wednesday 30 May 2007. I first added the link on Monday 28 May. It was gone last night (Tuesday, 29 May) and I replaced it. It is gone again today, Wednesday, 30 May, and I have again replaced it. There has been a statement on the page that it was edited on May 29 and another today that it was edited today, May 30.

Apparently, someone is editing out my link, and I suspect that it may be someone interested in the other two external links to this page.

My link is: "Images of Item Mote"

The link appears to be OK otherwise as it works.

My question is how to stop this editing-out of my link?

Wowniejr 01:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

William Owens Boston Massachusetts USA wowens1@verizon.net

I think the link is okay (putting aside the fact that you're the owner of that website in attempt to make fair judgement). It's just presented improperly. I've rewritten the link format and incorporated it into the current list of external links. --Deryck C. 14:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Bear in mind that you should not be adding links with which you have any affiliation. That's COI. It is good practice to propose such links on relevant talk pages. Adrian M. H. 16:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

In my interpretation it should not be a strict "no". Rather, Wikipedia:Citing oneself gives ideas on when to include and when not to when there's a conflict of interest. --Deryck C. 16:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

"Alleged" crimes once perpetrator is convicted, what is the official policy

Just edited Megan Kanka and took out a bunch of 'allegedly's. Her killer was convicted in a court of law, but there remains an editor who seems to be claiming it's POV to say "he killed..." without sticking in an 'allegedly'. Please point me to the "official" policy on this so I can cite it. Thank you, CliffC 10:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

See: Words to avoid — So-called, soi-disant, supposed, alleged, purported

I hope this helps. — Dorvaq (talk) 13:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention to be careful when citing the link I provided as it is not considered policy, but rather guidelines. — Dorvaq (talk) 13:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

While words like "allegedly" should be avoided, it is even worse to word a proposition by "it is". Instead, you should write like "Who-and-who suggested that...". --Deryck C. 14:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dorvaq, thank you for the pointer, where I see "Newspapers, for instance, almost universally refer to any indicted but unconvicted criminal as an alleged criminal." Agreed; I use 'alleged' whenever writing about someone where crimes have been charged but not yet proven in a court of law. Perhaps what I'm trying to ask is more of a common-sense question to which the answer is so obvious that no one has thought to incorporate it in a policy or guideline here. Trying again, "Once an accused criminal is convicted in a court of law, is it not both inappropriate and biased to insist on using the word 'alleged' when writing about the charges of which he's been convicted?" Maybe someone has a pointer to an old discussion or arbitration about this? It seems that it must have come up in the past. --CliffC 17:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there is no discussion involving the generic use of "allege" (or any derivative thereof) specific to before-and-after trials. However, there has been many discussions of this sort on individual article pages involving criminals. But, most of these discussions have been initiated by either anonymous users or users who contribute very little to Wikipedia besides the article in question. Perhaps your best bet would to start there unless someone else can provide you with something more informative.

Anyhow, I don't believe this needs to be incorporated into policy/guideline beyond how the word has already been treated. In terms of law, to allege is to present without proof or without first proving. Therefore, to state the convicted crime of an offender as an allegation is inherently contradictory. Wikipedia is dedicated to quality and integrity — anything contradictory fails on those two points, but that's my opinion. — Dorvaq (talk) 20:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that last paragraph hits the nail on the head, thanks. Nothing like logic to prove a point. I came upon the Megan Kanka article by chance and I remember the case quite well. It really irked me, after removing all the 'allegeds' and cleaning up the article, to find an old entry on the Talk page stating "He argues that he was wrongfully convicted; if he admitted to the allegations, they wouldn't be alleged, but he hasn't, so therefore they're 'alleged,' and he's the 'alleged killer.'" Arrgh! Thanks again. --CliffC 02:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Once a criminal has been convicted in court, they are legally guilty of the crime, and it is acceptable to say "they did it", even if they continue to deny doing so. If they have been charged or indicted, but not convicted, they are indeed the "alleged" perpetrator, but once convicted, it's entirely appropriate to state that they are indeed the perpetrator. If they are suspected of involvement but have not yet been charged or indicted, the proper reference is generally "suspect". Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this one off and on all day. I think an absolute "convicted" means "they did it" policy is wrong. We know that, even in the U.S., there are at least a few wrongful convictions, and in some countries at some times, a conviction might have nothing to do with facts. The flipside is also that "acquittal" does not automatically equate to "they didn't do it". Consider John Gotti; we know he bribed at least one juror during one of his murder trials. Or consider O. J. Simpson... I think the key to the issue is, is there are a genuine controversy over what happened? Then WP:NPOV applies. All the other policies come into play in deciding if there's really a controversy, in particular WP:V, WP:BLP and WP:SENSE. If someone claims a controversy to dispute what most of us think a conviction means, they need to produce sources, and we get to evaluate how reliable those sources are, applying all we know about the context of the situation. We need not take the self-serving statement of a convict as seriously as some neutral person's; we consider the source. For example, despite some weak claims of accident in the Yolanda Saldívar article, the Selena article is right to say Saldivar murdered Selena. On the other hand, there's some sort of heated controversy about whether Mumia Abu-Jamal actually committed the crime of which he was convicted, and the regular editors of that article try to apply NPOV.

We have much the same problem with other types of "facts" about people. We say that the two Roosevelt presidents, FDR and Teddy Roosevelt were 5th cousins, even though no one's ever done genetic testing or otherwise "proved" it; there's just no controversy there, so we don't need to condition the statement. On the other hand, in sports there are various non-legal controversies about infringement of the rules with performance enhancing substances; articles should usually reflect well sourced notable allegations, but err on the side of caution and use forms like "X claimed that ..." or "Y suspended Z after a positive test for...".

Also, a lot of the questions can be avoided with careful language; "X was convicted of doing Y to Z" is usually a verifiable NPOV statement, that lets the reader apply their own biases. Studerby 05:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack Sparrow

I am currently in the process of rewriting the article here, and I am wishing if anyone is willing to help me out during writing who is more knowledgable than me with the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, for me to cite page numbers to the tie-in books and comics and more. Alientraveller 18:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Trouble reaching a consensus

I have been trying to form a consensus to (re)insert material to Stephen Barrett. The majority of editors there are in favor of including information that Barrett is not Board Certified. This content has been verified by many reliable sources. A compromise has been proposed which should satisfy everyone's concerns. However, there a still several editors unwilling to agree to allow this content's inclusion. We have gone through nearly every step of WP:DR. Informal surveys have show a majority support of inclusion. Mediation failed due to lack of civility. Third-party opinions (all in favor of including the content) are ignored by the disenting parties. Any assitance here would be most helpful. Thank you. -- Levine2112 ^discuss 19:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The majority viewpoint appears to be there is no consensus and no interest in continuing a discussion that has been going on for over two months on an issue originally brought up by Levine2112 over 15 months ago. If anyone is interested in trying to help, I've been working on a Talk:Stephen_Barrett#History_of_.22Barrett_certification.22_dispute to help assist others in getting up to speed. -- Ronz  19:27, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Nummer29 is constantly trying to delete the article I've been working on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nummer29

This user is actively trying to delete the article I'm creating. His response: "this article has been deleted before because it is not significant, so leave the tag where it is"

Not only is this response extremely condesending, it is also false. Wc3Banlist is definately significant when there are tens of thousands of users who are actively taking part in this program.

I would like to have him barred from adding this delete tag to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spikernum1 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

If you have an issue with a particular editor, you need to take it up in a civil manner with him on his talk page, and bear in mind that he might be right. This is not the place for airing dirty laundry. I will look into the matter (although some more information would be nice... such as what article you are on about) but you should respect WP's dispute resolution advice. Further response will be made on your talk page. Adrian M. H. 21:08, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

He appears to be talking about Wc3 Banlist, and it's currently been shifted to an AfD discussion, so this appears to be a non-problem at the moment. Spikernum, if a consensus is reached in that discussion that the article should be deleted then that's what will happen. It's no fun -- no one likes to see his work disappear -- but it happens from time to time. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

To be quite honest, the subject doesn't look notable to me, and the article also appears to be pretty promotional. That's grounds for a speedy deletion, which if it weren't already at AfD I would certainly consider doing. Notability doesn't reflect popularity, it reflects how much reliable source material is available on a subject from sources independent of the subject. I can't find any at all. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but I was trying to smooth potentially ruffled feathers. The article had already been prod-ed; it's in AfD because Spikernum1 objected. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

problems with Apocalypto

I have been trying to make changes an additions to the Wiki page for the film Apocalypto. However the page is being monitored by an extremely zealous person who immediately goes and reverts to the previous version. Furthermore, he seems to have a strong sense of ownership over the page and has been making threats to have me banned if I don't leave his creation alone. I suspect that his zeal eminates from the fact that he is among the subjects in this entry and has written about himself. I have made efforts to remind him that no one person owns any Wiki page and that he cannot appoint himself as the final say on any one fact. Can you please offer advice on how to make the additions without having them constantly and immediately undone? Cjboffoli 23:55, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

• However the page is being monitored by an extremely zealous person who immediately goes and reverts to the previous version. Furthermore, he seems to have a strong sense of ownership over the page and has been making threats to have me banned if I don't leave his creation alone. I suspect that his zeal eminates from the fact that he is among the subjects in this entry and has written about himself.

Apart from the repeated false personal attacks again (I'm not even one of the subjects), I'm actually reverting your libelous unverified original research from Apocalypto and Farhad Safinia. If anyone wants to know whats actually happening, this user, Cjboffoli, keeps inserting the likes of the following into either articles about plagiarism:

The genesis of Apocalypto was a screenplay entitled "Sacrifice" penned by screenwriter John Fletcher which was circulated around Hollywood in 2003-04. The script caught the eye of production assistant Farhad Safinia who had no previous writing credits. Safinia liked the script and felt he could adapt the property sufficiently to avoid crediting the original writer. He pitched the script to Gibson's Icon Films and represented it as his own. Safinia had a pre-existing relationship with Mel Gibson as he had worked on Gibson's film The Passion of the Christ. Despite having registered the screenplay with the US Copyright office and the Writer's Guild, Fletcher had little recourse to pursue damages. Safinia had altered at least 10% of the screenplay and a court battle (especially if unsuccessful) could have proved costly and career-ending.

The above statements incorporated into the text are very libelous and worse, not even verified from any source. Cjboffoli wrote on my talkpage[12]<---:

There is already one infringement lawsuit pending and both the Writers Guild and the LA Times are currently looking into the 'Sacrifice' matter. The amendments I made to the page in question are true and I have information to back them up. Truth is a solid defense against libel.

If this supposed lawsuit is still pending, why are you incorporating the supposed plagiarising into the text and presenting it as fact? ResurgamII 00:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

If no court case has decided that plagiarism did indeed occur, we absolutely cannot state such material as fact. See our biographies of living persons policy. We cannot state as fact that a person plagiarized unless there is very solid source material (such as a successful lawsuit) which indicates that such did indeed occur. However, if it can be reliably sourced that there is such a controversy, we can report that a controversy does exist, but not editorialize, take a side, or write in any way that appears we endorse one side or the other as correct. If no reliable sources have reported even on the controversy, we can't include anything about it, period. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Cjboffoli, your unsigned comment on ResurgamII's talk page goes against WP:AGF, particularly as he made only one revert to one of the two affected articles; the other reverts were done by other editors. And based on my study of the articles' edit history, their talk pages, and the talk pages of the editors involved, you seem to have presented a slightly distorted view of the facts in your post here, because there is no evidence that WP:OWN has been ignored by anyone. I noticed ResurgamII's removal of your sources on the talk page, which is bad form IMO, and he was maybe a little hasty to mention blocking (but bear in mind that continuing to add inappropriate content may be construed as disruption, for which a block may be issued). I think that you should take a breath and consider the situation, then check the important policies/guidelines if you haven't already done so. It is very important that statements about legal issues are treated strictly. Adrian M. H. 17:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

NPOV (etc.) violation

My attempt to fix what looks like a big NPOV (& forking, COI, now CIVIL?) violation here was met with a very emotional response from the author/subject (yep, same person). I brought it up with one editor and on the relevent project page, where two more people confirmed we have a problem, (one confirmation on my talk page). Though I do have a PhD in another area of physics, I don't have any expertise in the page contents. I don't feel like my going head to head with this editor will accomplish anything, but something's got to be done. Please help! Thanks.PhysPhD 00:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a tricky one. With only two editors directly involved, you could take it to 3O first and see if that resolves it. I'm a bit concerned that anyone who chips in might not be respected by the other editor unless they are an expert in this field. Adrian M. H. 18:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

review potentially abusive discussion behavior

I am essentially in an edit war with Dreftymac over the Hoplophobia article. (See Talk:Hoplophobia) I can handle the edit war, but I feel the need to call attention to this user's behavior in the course of this disagreement.

For some context, after reviewing the reference in question and the edit history, it seems that Dreftymac selectively edited a quotation in order to reverse the source author's intent. I removed the quote and prolific insults ensued. Initially, I didn't understand the duplicity behind the gerrymandered quote, I just noticed that it didn't seem to contribute anything to the article.

Dreftymac is extremely familiar with Wikipedia policies and contributes heavily to the policy articles and discussions. I find this a little disturbing considering how much abuse this user has sent my way.

I am not interested in dispute resolution. I am interested in reporting potentially abusive behavior. Is there any policy or procedure to address this? —BozoTheScary 02:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone check this, please

Resolved

Can someone have a quick look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Supercars.net (2nd nomination) and tell me if I have done it correctly. I haven't made a second nom before, but I don't think that should be red-linked. I followed all three steps. Adrian M. H. 18:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorted now. Adrian M. H. 20:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Research2020 00:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)research2020 article William Rodney Galloway

I had an editor that removed my article, which were also my future notes ( I have to read over my papers often in order to only cite information that is of interest)

Below is the reply I made to the editor, it was their opinion that it was not noteworthy. They told me to rewrite after I took the time to word it properly. I did need help with advanced features. I'm combating the poor examples that are on the web with a similar name.

Thank you fro your help, William R.

reply As to you reply: William Rodney Galloway is a nations first, like Wright brothers, Buzz Aldrin, it was based on rank, not color , sex, or religion.

Examples:

Tuskegee Airmen Black servicemen of the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) who trained at Alabama's Tuskegee Army Air Field in World War II. They constituted the first African American flying unit in the U.S. military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Army_Corps

Philadelphian Loretta Walsh enlisted in March of 1917 and became the first Yeoman (F) in the Navy.

Twin sisters Genevieve and Lucille Baker joined the Coast Guard.

In August of 1918 Opha M. Johnson enlisted as the first woman in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve

Valentina Tereshkova, Astronaut Born: 6 March 1937 Birthplace: Maslennikovo, Russia Best Known As: The first woman in space Soviet cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova was launched into space aboard the Vostok 6 on 16 June 1963

Jessica Lynch: Woman taken prisoner, like many others but achieved attention based on her sex only.

Galloway importance is " William R. Galloway is a model of theory" for inclusion into Who's Who in the Military section you must meet one of the following. Must be a rank of Major General or an achievement that is note worthy enough. First in US history! We need better examples on the web not ones of poor character. As I mentioned I have all supporting document's, I have letters from Senator's office verifying that they made the submission to the Research Agency and to the Pentagon. I sent to much time on this already, and those notes I wrote were important in order to add future resources after the Iraq conflict.

Your policy as follows:

Notability is a subjective judgement based on objective data. The common theme in the notability guidelines is the requirement for verifiable objective evidence to support a claim of notability, as do peer recognition

(key word other) meaning last of importance

Substantial coverage in reliable sources constitutes such evidence, and the other factors listed in the subject specific guidelines

Here is an example of the abuse on the web

a person that carries the same name but no relation no reason for it being on the web, he is in custody: [PDF] IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF APPEAL OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA FIFTH ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML William Galloway timely appeals the order adjudicating him to be a sexually. violent predator and committing him to a secure facility pursuant to the Jimmy ... www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2005/032805/5D04-1135.pdf

I will remove these post after a reply and you resolve this,we all need help to battle evil intentions.

Thank you.

[edit] I would like my article back to look at changes William Rodney Galloway:

I cited numerous outside sources, Gale Press, Marquis Who’s Who, Atlanta History center, Air Force Research Agency ( Military ID needed in order to use research agency files)

Marquis Who’s Who World and America editions are in print in over 200 countries. Newspaper Articles from regional newspapers are not accessible from web. Marquis, Gale Press, Research Agency, all need authorized users to be registered to gain online access. Personal Visits,Atlanta History Center. No online access

Marquis Who's Who can be researched by visiting a local library if they do not have access to online use.

Articles that were found on the web were removed, links I had on the web because they contained personal family information. This is to include Gale Press listing. They cite in name only and have provided privacy from online access. Other sources listed have registered visitors. If it is necessary to document individuals that needed detailed contact information..Address, family, work place, etc...

I'm not an expert by no means, but I had to word the information very carefully in order to convey the information while at the same time protecting personal privacy.

I would have added links to other references, but my knowledge is limited as to the process.

If you would like to have a person contact me about a rewrite, I will give the material to them verify.

williamrgalloway@yahoo.com

Thank you

I Googled for "William Rodney Galloway" (in quotes) and found a copy of your article in the Google cache HERE, grab it fast because it won't be there long. --CliffC 01:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Cliff, I should have thought of that! Can you please give me some feedback on changes that Wikipedia needs. They suggested it was not a noteworthy reference, which has already been established and in print and found in libraries worldwide. I already explained, there are not large examples found on the web, it does not mean that the information is not factual.

Below is the article thank you cliff!

William Rodney Galloway From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search ' William Rodney Galloway (born:Warner Robins, Ga. June 21, 1966) ' William Galloway is noted as our nations first junior enlisted serviceman to become an ALS Leadership Academy Instructor for the USAF, called an "Air Force First". This designation has been used to note persons that have become notable as Air Force historical Firsts. This is to include Army Air Corp(before 1947), Air Force First, Air Force Enlisted First. All are incorporated into program texts that are taught at the Airman Leadership School, NCO Academy, Senior NCO Academy, and Officer Cadet School.

A drill instructor is a non-commissioned officer in the armed forces with specific duties that vary by country. In the U.S. armed forces, they are assigned the duty of initiating new recruits entering the military into the customs and practices of military life. In the U.S. they may also be known as military training instructors. Outside of the U.S., they are assigned the duty of instructing recruits in drill commands only.

U.S. Armed Forces Drill instructors are held responsible for the welfare, behavior, and military education of the recruits assigned to them on a 24-hour basis throughout the period of initial training, known as boot camp. The responsibilities include areas such as military discipline, physical fitness, and weapons training. Further development into leadership training occurs at the ALS, NCO Academy, Senior NCO Academy, later in military careers. Some qualified candidates are given the opportunity to attend the Officer Cadet School in order to become Commissioned Officers.

William R. Galloway

Photo Link: http:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c8/Photowrg2.JPG/328px-Photowrg2.JPG

Quotes:

Let it be known that trust grows evermore stronger when you speak what is true. For if you deny the truth or hold back what should be told then trust shall be transformed before you. WRG

Earn the respect of those you lead, and they will follow you anywhere.--WRG;'

3701ST motto: Lead, follow, or get out of the way! The 3701st was an all male squadron, Flight 630 attended by Galloway was named "Survivors", lead by TSgt. Ballard, a former US. Marine Corp Sargent. He instilled the values of God, Country, Family.

Mr. William R. Galloway of the United States has been selected to be included in a biographical directory published by Marquis Who’s Who, the leading biographical reference publisher of the highest achievers and contributors from across the country and around the world. Who’s Who in the World list global leaders from countries around the world and provides instant access to their personal profiles.

William Rodney Galloway may be researched through: Who’s Who in the World 22nd edition, Who's Who in America 58th-present, Air Force Historical Research Agency, Atlanta History Center, Gale Press online.

Since 1899, when A.N. Marquis printed the First Edition of Who’s Who in America, Marquis Who’s Who has chronicled the lives of the most accomplished individuals and innovators from every significant field of endeavor – including politics, business, medicine, law, education, art, religion and entertainment. Today, Who’s Who in America remains an essential biographical source for thousands of researchers, journalists, librarians and executive search firms around the world.

Marquis now publishes many Who’s Who titles, including Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in the World, Who Was Who in America, Who’s Who in Finance and Industry, Who’s Who in American Law, Who’s Who in Medicine and Healthcare, Who’s Who in Science and Engineering, and Who’s Who of American Women

Mr. Galloway, I'm not much of an expert at asserting notability, since any biographical article I've ever worked on here already existed and had gotten past that hurdle. I don't think a mention in Marquis Who's Who would be enough to assert notability since I see from its Wikipedia article that some of the entries are self-nominated. The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs seem to come from drill instructor so that leaves the first paragraph looking kind of slim if there is no reliable, published source to back it up. I went looking for your article so you would have it for your own records and not lose the work you already put into it. I can sympathize with your having to share a first and last name with such a criminal (or any criminal!) but at least he doesn't have his own article on Wikipedia to make it even worse. He sounds pretty obscure, so I'm going to guess nobody will mistake you for him if you call to make a doctor's appointment or such, and that's good. Best regards, CliffC 03:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Cliff, yes 2nd and 3rd paragraph are from drill instructor, it was concise and direct. If I knew how to hyperlink it I would have.

History is just what it is, everyone knows the best source of history comes from those that were a part of it. I have videos that we made during time in the program, and there is irony in the fact that one class was on Air Force History and the Senior NCO's pointed out my rank during the class. here is a short wave of intro during a class.

I will need to remove this, because it reveals personal details of my home area. Feel free to copy and rename the file and assign it to another location. Soft targets do not have protection at their homes. Remember we are at war and someone in middle east has no clue if I'm a large player or small. They have access in their libraries. I still have to conduct daily activities and continue to meet with people from all over the world, and some want a little more information after we talk. People have become to lazy to pick up a book, Internet is the alternative.

This is our Legion web site and it is being slowed down, I know because I'm on it every day.

I wanted to have content without giving out personal information. I don't mind sharing my information, except this is not the way to share it because this is public domain. I can send all information by fax or e-mail if that's all they need is to verify facts.

There is not one person that wrote a story of historical interest without talking directly with the source.

Self-Nomination is only a person listing their background and hoping others think it is noteworthy, but the military has a long tradition on "First for their Country" Leadership is the cornerstone of military discipline. There can not be another first.

PME or professional military education is an accredited program where graduates are given a fixed ribbon award for completion. Failure in the course would disqualify them from becoming a Non-commissioned officer. The Academy level is the next step in military leadership training after basic training. It needs to be completed before a soldier can advance in rank, no exceptions.

I was there in the beginning of it's inception and watched the program grow worldwide as the model of theory in leadership training for largest Air Force in the world, so I know absolutely what is fact.

Again , thank you!

Note: self nomination refers to civilian occupations, military service is the difference, you must meet a different criteria of standards, rank of major general, or an accomplishment that reflects a place of leadership that influenced a major movement or policy change in how our military operates. Again I will mention that paperwork was filed by a member of the U.S. Senate for documentation of historical events. The word "encyclopedia" comes from the Greek enkyklios paideia, a "circle of learning." encyclopedias are the "storehouse of facts" and "a systematic survey of all departments of knowledge" by expert authorities. Who is the expert in this subject, the I wrote about?

Key Word- US History.

US History Encyclopedia Encyclopedia of American History Whether you're a history buff or a curious dabbler, you'll be informed and enlightened by these chapters, both obscure and well-known, in the story of United States from its inception to the present

They forgot these words:

Drill Instructor Creed I am a drill Instructor.

I will assist each individual in their efforts to become a highly motivated, well disciplined, physically and mentally fit soldier capable of defeating any enemy on today's modern battlefield.

I will instill pride in all I train. Pride in Self, The Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard and in Country.

I will insist that each soldier meets and maintains the highest standards of military bearing and courtesy, consistent with the traditions of The Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard.

I will lead by example, never requiring a soldier to attempt any task I would not do myself.

But first, last, and always, I am an American Soldier, sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

I am a drill Instructor!

drill Instructors only make up 2% of soldiers in service. This entry notes an individual that stands out among the few making it very noteworthy!

Google lists 1,230,000 for drill instructor, this entry places a face and a noteworthy achievement that defines that title of Drill Instructor. A U.S. History First

While your service is certainly respected and appreciated, I'm afraid I'm really not seeing that we should have this article. I believe that there are wikis and other forums elsewhere which are set up specifically for members of the military, one of those may be a good choice for your biography if you wish to have it. What we need for a biography here is significant coverage from reliable sources independent of the article subject, which provide a good overall picture of the person's life. As to sharing your name with a criminal-I can sympathize, I do too, but I don't think having a biography here would do much for that. Nor, unfortunately, could we make an exception for that reason even if it would. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 02:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

NPOV violation in article on Elvria Arellano

| Elvira Arellano Basically me and two other editors cannot agree on the use of terms such as "Illegal Alien" and "Anchor Baby" in her article. They prefer the more obtuse "parents facing deportation" and no refererence to the wiki article on Anchor Baby. There is a lot of discussion on this near the bottom of the Discussion page. I have asked for a Third Opinion as well as RfC. Those guys don't care. They consider the article their personal fiefdom and revert my edits while continuing to use biased terms like "undocumented". One of them went so far as to get me "convicted" of being a SockPuppeteer in a bogus trial reminiscent of the Soviet Union. He also edited my signatures (until I reverted them back) to use the Single Purpose Account tag stating I had made "few or no other edits." Basically a smear campaign, not countering my arguments. Frankly, I have not edited a lot of articles on Wikipedia due to time and lack of interest but I have to say if this is the way it is run, full of personal bias and editors using the system to stifle other editors so as to make "right-thinking" articles, then I want no part of it. I'm giving Wikipedia one last chance to show me it is worth the effort. [LordPathogen] LordPathogen 16:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess this goes to show the range of differing experiences that editors will have. I find myself getting by without major conflict, but that said, I don't usually edit where controversy and strong POV are likely to lurk. When I'm over at 3O, the kind of arguments that go on never cease to surprise me, because many of them could be sorted out amicably. But if you have already been through 3O and RFC, there is not much else that I can suggest without getting really heavy. Does the case really warrant it? Before that, there's mediation, but that is voluntary (and I can't see you getting agreement from the other parties). If I looked into this thoroughly, it would take far more time than I have, but I recommend that you either call in the heavy mediation guns if it is really worth it or take a deep breath, wlak away from that article and those editors and relax. Sometimes, just occasionally, discretion is the better part of valour and spending your (presumably precious) spare time making more constructive edits without hassle becomes possible once more. Adrian M. H. 16:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Help requested - article content seems biased and lopsided to me; would like confirmation and advice

I'm a relatively new editor -- I began participating in the learning disability page in January but more seriously in early April. I'm now looking at the Dyslexia article, have read through all the discussion page and interacted with the two current primary contributors. We don't have an active dispute, but I do think the content is at this point very flawed and I'm not sure how to proceed in raising the issues that I see. I need someone objective to give me a sanity check on my perceptions, hopefully followed by some guidance as to how to participate constructively so that we can move forward in developing the article. Thanks, and I look forward to working with someone on this! smoran 20:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Site help House of Windsor

I stumbled across, House of Windsor and found a complete re-write of UK history. Other editors have seen the same problem. I cursed a lil left the offending sections on talk and deleted them. The only references were on a heraldy site and i think he had taken the info from wikipedia. The nonsense had been on site since May 2004 See Edit log and was posted by User:Garryq. Do I report it him? Can I ask that all editors on that site get a 24hour ban for unsourced articles? help plz Mike33 00:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk page

I've been editing the Steinway & Sons article quite a lot recently. We've had a few issues with a lot of POV comments/advertising. I think most of these have been successfully defused. But the problem appears to have shifted to the talk page: one user in particular is posting fairly extended essays on things only slightly related to the topic, large parts of which are mostly personal opinion or experience (see the sonic quality and playability section, and others). These posts are rewritten and added to quite frequently, and would appear to be a way of sneaking in advertising/POV material that didn't make it to the main article. I've tried to suggest subtly on his talk page that he have a look over the talk page guidelines, but I'm not sure what I should do about the rather bloated talk page, if anything; and how to gently discourage the user from cluttering up the the page, whilst still encouraging him to make use of it. Alexrexpvt 02:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

• Make a conscious effort to educate the editor in question about NPOV and its importance in article space. If said editor persists, step through the DR process. --Aarktica 02:42, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Saving the Capclave and WSFA entries from deletion

Our pages for Capclave and WSFA (Washington Science Fiction Association) are being continually marked for deletion by a Doc Glasgow. How can we stop this person from trying to remove our information. I've changed it once with a note that the Capclave site isn't promotion it's a history list of the current and past Guest of Honor. Capclave is a fairly prestigious SF/F convention held in the DC area every year in Oct. We have a link to our website (http://www.capclave.org)

He's also trying to remove the WSFA entry which is for the Washington Science Fiction Association which has been in continuous existence since 1947. Many members have won Hugo Awards and other honors given out by the SF/F community worldwide.

We'd like to keep our entries active in Wikipedia but if this person is going to continue to demand a delete of the entry 5 to 10 minutes after we change it back -- it's going to be a pain in the neck to try to maintain this entry. We don't really need it as we have our own websites -- we were placing the entries here with a link back to our site as a resource for the SF community.

However, I really don't want to have to redo the entry every 10 minutes for the rest of my life.

What can we do to resolve this or do we just let this person delete the entries. Who is he anyway and why do you allow someone to take control of the process.

I tried to figure out how to source the site but after about 6 pages of instruction none of which told me how to do that I gave up. If we could figure out how to source it would that stop this guy? It doesn't seem like it but thought I'd ask.

Iskustva 23:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Iskustva

Iskustva, Wikipedia is not like MySpace or whatever, no one "owns" the pages. Once a topic is created in Wikipedia, anyone can edit it. When there is conflict, editors interested in a topic try to reach a consensus on changes, within the framework of Wikipedia policy. Not all topics are appropriate to Wikipedia; many hundreds, or perhaps even thousands, of pages are deleted every day. The deletion process is somewhat more controlled than the editing process; only trusted editors with "administrator" privileges do deletions, and they follow one of several processes for each deletion. The Capclave article has been nominated for a full deletion review. You (or any Wikipedia editor) may participate in that review by clicking the this article's entry link at the top oc the Capclave article (which I have copied here). Note: this is not a vote! Editors will be making arguments based on the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. If you (or others) wish to argue against deletion, you need to become familiar with Wikipedia policy - the place to start is WP:DEL. The argument will likely center on whether capclave is sufficiently notable to merit an article, and whether or not there are verifiable sources to support such an article. Wikipedia does not publish original research (see WP:OR), content on Wikipedia is supposed to be verifiable by other editors. In other words, the general Wikipedia policy requires that there be some independently verifiable material that indicates that capclave is notable, that will serve as source material for the article. To prevent the deletion review from resulting in deletion, you should supply references to souch source material, on the deletion review page. By the way, any page in the Wikipedia is subject to review, and Doc glasgow is following more-or-less appropriate process. Studerby 01:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I note he did not replace the {{prod}} tag on Washington Science Fiction Association after it was removed, and it is therefore no longer in danger of deletion for the time being. He did add {{verify}}, which is a note that external sources must be cited. This is nothing more than a reminder of long-standing Wikipedia policy. See WP:VERIFY.

You're confused about how to cite sources in general. Citation is nothing more than adding footnotes pointing to outside resources that verify the information you want to include, much as you would do for any research paper. There is a collection of templates that can help you reference these resources in an acceptable for. See WP:CTT. Preferably, these resources should not be affiliated with the group or event you want to write about, especially as far as general information goes. There ought to be such resources available for any subject suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. If there isn't, then there's a good possibility that it's not.

To make these citations into footnotes we use a set of tags resembling standard HTML. See WP:FOOT for how to use them.

There is a current article for deletion ongoing for Capclave, as the template at the top of the article states. The way to prevent deletion of this article is to join that discussion and try to build consensus for retention. This is a discussion, not a vote: the Delete, Keep and other apparent votes are simply intended to summarize the comments that follow and are not simply tallied.

However, I strongly suggest you review WP:N, WP:NOT, and WP:OWN, which may give you some insight into why these articles are being considered for deletion in the first place, and why your summary in this edit is not really to the point. TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

We welcome and value positive contributions and, per AGF, I will assume that you wish to do so, but editors who infringe a bunch of the most important policies and guidelines are liable to see their contributions attended to in some way, and that includes deletion. That's another important policy that is worth reading. Adrian M. H. 12:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Romano German

I have written two articles about the Romano German subject, and both have been deleted, even though 99% of the articles came from wikipedia which I had explained, and I had Refrences listed. I dont understand why wiki wouldnt have an article on this subject, and I dont know why my articles have been discriminated in wiki.--ProfMozart 14:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Articles are not discriminated against, and neither are editors. Articles are deleted when there is a good reason to do so. See also: WP:DP. An article at Romano German was, as you can see from deletion log at that red link, deleted due to contradictions with established articles. If wish to discuss it with the deleting editor, you can do so, remembering AGF and civility. Adrian M. H. 15:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Pop Culture issues / Editor who is not listening to my notes and loathes the subject matter

Two issues:

1) Relates to the Frat_pack article, a pop culture topic. DreamGuy removed all links to my related fan site. The fan site in question is not a simple rehash of the subject matter but does include original research, reviews, interviews on topic for this subject matter. This isn't a scholarly subject so there are few "official policy" sources to look to for this topic. The acknowledged seminal source is USA Today that named the Frat Pack and I coauthored a second article about the group, so I believe I have reasonable credentials to be noted in the article. Links to my site have been in the article for more than a year but DreamGuy has removed all of them. I am not trying to turn the wiki article into a vanity article for my site; on the contrary - I have not written major sections of the article -- just small edits/vandalism removal and such. I give a damn about the subject matter and that's why I do it, not to pimp my fan site. I do feel the fan site is relevant to the topic as a source of additional information for this pop culture topic.

2)DreamGuy is not taking any time to listen to what I am saying. When I say "I did not originally add the links" he says "see, you admit to adding the link." I requested Mediation but DreamGuy declined. I could really use some help in determining what to do. Related links:

Request for Mediation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Frat_pack

Latest loathing of the subject matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DreamGuy

Kevin Crossman 16:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Links to fansites are not acceptable. But let me make that clearer. Links to fansites are not ever acceptable. They're not reliable sources, and they don't add anything to the article. It's only a secondary concern that you have a conflict of interest here-you shouldn't link to fansites even if they're not yours. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 16:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Links to fansites aren't acceptable, DreamGuy's someone who refuses to work with people, your best option is to just drop it. If you try and push it wou'll probbaly be on the short end.--Wizardman 16:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

What about the sources for Pop Culture? I mean, there isn't exactly a scientific test to determine who is in the Frat Pack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Wilkes%2C_Wyss_and_Onefortyone#Sources_for_popular_cultureKevin Crossman 21:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hrm, that looks an awful lot like ArbCom deciding content, that rather surprises me. They usually stay away from it. That being said, I don't think they're saying "use any old source for any old thing", I think they're more saying "For pop-culture stuff, Entertainment Weekly or TV Guide may well be an acceptable source, since you're not likely to find it written up in Science." I strongly doubt they meant "Repost whatever crap a bunch of people decided to throw on their personal blogs and go on about on forums and fansites." Now, of course, I can't speak for 'em, that's just what it looks like to me. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 00:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

help with changing a listing

Hi - I updated a listing and a day later, all of my changes - which are correct and more timely than the information in the current listing - were "undid." Can you tell me why and how I can make changes without them being undone?

Thank you 161.243.51.205 18:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I cannot tell you anything, since you have provided no information at all. If you had an account, I could check your contribs. I won't speculate on it. Adrian M. H. 19:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

We would at least need the article name and an approximate time that you added the information; the more frequently edited the article, the more exact the time would need to be. It would be a lot simpler if you had an account, but a review is possible with enough other information. Another point is that all articles have "history", which is one of the tabs at the top of the article's page. You can click that tab and see the revision history for yourself, which is what we would do. Most editors fill out the edit summary, which will be displayed and might give you a clue, although sometimes the comments are a little cryptic to the inexperienced. Also, the name or IP address of the editor who reverted your change will be visible in the history; if a named account, you could go to that user's talk page and ask them (politely) why they reverted your changes. Studerby 19:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Does this relate to the John Peyton (US politician) article? In which case I think the problem is not providing sources. Addhoc 21:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anybody editing that article since 29 May except you; looks like you confused yourself by adding your copy of the article at the bottom of the existing article. Looks like you have now fixed it. --CliffC 21:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking User:161.243.51.101 could be the same editor. Addhoc 23:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Given that your IP is assigned to the city government of Jacksonville, FL, I wonder if you are editing this article as a part of your job or for personal interest. If it is indeed as a psrt of your job, you may want to consider suggesting your changes to other wikipedia editors, so that they can make them if they seem appropriate and you can avoid a conflict of interest on the subject - you can do this by either suggesting changes on the article's talk page, or by talking through such changes with another editor on their talk page (mine is here). Pastordavid 21:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Maulden

Why have I got a warning

I updated it- I have lived there 9 years, and my wife 48 years- what have I don ewrong- the user reverted my version

who is Optimale ?

my email is 07970125786@orange.net