Talk:Ezhava

Untouchability

Can we also talk about how people from the caste were also toddy-tappers and how they were victims of untouchability ? It seems to me that while the laudatory aspects of Ezhava culture and achievements are well and good, we should not shy away from talking about what Ezhavas went through. Ashankar 12:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ashankar (talk • contribs) 11:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism

There are wiki articles on various communities of India belonging to different states and linguistic backgrounds. Nowhere else do I see this level of intolerance as the communities of Kerala. As a member of Ezhava community, I am miffed at seeing the edits by certain individuals that attempt to belittle, marginalize and defame the community and vandalize the document in general.

Is that a problem with people like Thankachan Pappachan that they cannot be tolerant of others? Wouldn't a little bit of broad mindedness and mental growth good for every one?

Enna okkeyadaa ezhuthi vachiriykunne? Loka mahaa puluvanmaaare? Aromal chekavaru ezhavanannu aaraada ninnodu paranje? ithenthoram nonaya? Ennathinadaa ingane nona paranju valyaalavunne? Ezhavare ividittu odichu thallukarunnilyo? Athalyo sathyam? Athangottu paranjaal ennathaada oru korachilu?Kochu Thomman Kottappadi 08:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It is a widely known fact that Aaromal Chekavar and Unniyarcha were Ezhavas. For a reference, see Malayalam Encyclopedia, Sarvavijnjana Kosham Volume 4(volume starting with "Ee").

This man has surfaced again. It's easy to make out that ""Kochu Thomman"" is not a Christian. I Thought he understood his mistake when he deleted his prior post. But he is repeating the same. Please check out Wikipedia:Civility - Panikkar

He could be anything. Why do you say he is not Christian?

Here is the previous post from him which he deleted later Potteda makkale , Pottu. Veruthe Videdey. Onnuvillelum avammaru mamodeesaa mungiya ezhavaralyo? margam koodiyavaralyo?Kochu Thomman Kottappadi 11:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC). Do you expect such words from a Christian who claims to be the descendant of nambuthiris? Whatever community he belongs to, he is here to vandalize the article. Panikkar

How can you be certain?He may be trying sarcasm. Majority of the christians areEzhavas.There was a spurt in numbers after mass conversion by missionaries. There are records to prove this.But there is no evidence that any Christian was originally a Nambuthiri.It is a lie propagated by the church.Nambuthiris had strict rules. Many nambuthiri women were turned out of their home for flimsy reasons. Sometimes these cast-away women were sold to merchants.Who were these merchants?They were none other than rich christians. They wished to better their race.For example ,consider Sheela , former film actress. Sheela is a catholic from Trichur.Sheela's grandmother was a Nambuthiri woman, the notorious Kuriyedathu Thathri.She had to leave home because of Bhrashtu. A Christian from Trichur married her. Her daughter was married to Antony, an Anglo Indian . (Rail Engine Driver).Sheela or Sheela Celine is Antony's daughter. There may be many such cases. Because there were many cases of Bhrashtu. Apart from this, there is no Nambuthiri blood in Syrian Christians. Perhaps some more people were forced to convert during Foriegn rule. Ajilal 08:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Halle, nee kollavalloda kochane? Ithenna kandupidithavaada? Neeyaannoda Thomas Ajilalva Edison? Eee kathayokke evidunnu kittiyeda ninakku? Appol..ividuthe kaasholla mothalalimaarokke nazraanikalaarunnu. Ivalumare okke kettunnatharunnu, Nazraanikade pradhaana paripadi, alyo?Pinnethaandu recordo guinnesso ondennu parennondallo? Evidaada ee recordokke? Eee jnaanoodonnu kandotte. Pinne?Vere enna okke ondu? Onnu paranjaatte, Ajilaale.Kochu Thomman Kottappadi 09:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The Namboothiri theory is the result of an effort to gain social respect. Indians have a symbolistic culture, where you need to align with symbols of ancient practices or foreign cultures to feel good. My theory! Anyway this is interesting, the Sheela story. Now, this article is about Ezhava, a community of people in Kerala. The history of other people is not relevant here. Even Ezhava history itself needs to be summarized neatly and not in great detail as we need to provide information about the community today in this article. We need to create another article/articles for other topics and purposes.

ORU JAATI , ORU MATHAM, ORU DAIVAM MANUSHYANU - Forget this not. 59.93.222.166

What is your point? Everyone knows about the Guru's vision. However all people needs to understand it. The discussions here are about the slander and intolerance some men show towards Ezhavas. Don't we need to respond? May be you need to advice us the teachings that no one follows. "If they slap on one cheek, show the other". Nice try. Unni1

Please sign you posts Panikkar

As Unni rightly said Guru's vision is not restricted to any community nor it's a rule. This article is about the Ezhava community and not about the teachings of Sri Narayana Guru. About "Oru jaathi....", don't take it in literal sense. Caste is a reality in our society and it's almost impossible to destroy it. So live with it.. But consider all castes as equal and respect each other to reduce communal tensions. Panikkar

I just wanted to expose the user Kochu Thomman Kottappadi. He is trying his level best to Vandalise this page and see how much is he interested in Nair page.

His comments on Vivin's talk page

Roughly translated, the stuff looks like this: If the nairs do not like the use of "sudra", "savarnasudra" etc , why do you force feed these? There may be so many other ways of expressing the same matter.There's n't a need to quote text where it's offensive or unpleasant. The purpose of the article is to distribute relevent details to the public.This can be done in other ways also.It need not pin prick someone..well, it's upto you nairs what you write about yourselves. Similiar tactics with Christians/Muslims may generate violent reactions. Also i feel at ease with Malayalam, and my own brand of Malayalam.This is the dialect of the central travancore christians.I can express a lot with it.Please bear with it.I hope you understand malayalam.Language, after all, is little more than a means of communication.Kochu Thomman Kottappadi 05:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Why is he so much worried about a Nair calling himself Sudra? Panikkar

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Chekavar

I see some similarities between Thiyyas and Ezhavas interms of the title Chekavar. Initially I thought it was a surname used only by Thiyyas of Malabar. But I see many examples of Ezhavas (of south) having the same surname in the past.. Please take a look at wiki page Chekavar . User:Panikkar

chekavar means slaves of warrior nair

Ezhavas and Tiyyas (by K K Kusaumam)

http://www.newindpress.com/sunday/sundayItems.asp?id=SET20021221042249&eTitle=Think+Piece&rLink=0

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

The Ezhavas are one of the most important caste groups of Kerala. Politically influential, they have also made a mark in economic activities, administration, literature and culture. Equivalent castes exist in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka too, but under different names. Even in Kerala there are regional variations to the generic name; in Malabar and some parts of Kochi they are known as Thiyyar, in Central Travancore as Chovar. Under titles received from local rajas, some are also called Thandar, Panikkar and Channar.

Outnumbering all other caste groups in Kerala, Ezhavas have left an indelible imprint on the socio-economic and cultural fabric of the state. Before the 9th century of the Christian era, they seem to have formed three distinct strata on the basis of profession. The upper stratum was well-versed in Buddhist scriptures and by virtue of education became experts in indigenous sciences like Ayurveda. Of the three Ayurvedic physicians who helped the Dutch Governor Van Rheed in the compilation of the Hortus Malabaricus, one was an Ezhava by name Itty Achyuthan. Later on, some Ezhavas became experts in astrology too.

The middle stratum preferred to be warriors. It began as a tradition of personal valour, but later assumed professional dimensions. The Chevakar (corrupt form of Chovar) of the Northern Ballads were noted for their individual prowess and proficiency and a perennial source of wonder to all. Towards the close of the 19th century, F W Dawson, commanding Nayar Brigade, recorded: “By about 1780 the strength of the Travancore army was over 50,000 men, disciplined according to the European manner, besides 1,00,000 Nayars and Ezhavas armed with bows and arrows, spears, swords and battle axes.” (A History of the Nayar Brigade, p.1) T K Velu Pillai, who authored The Travancore State Manual similarly refers to the martial heritage of the Ezhavas: “Among certain castes like the Ezhavas and Nadars, apart from those who participated in fighting, there were a good number of Asans (instructors) too. There are several references in the Northern Ballads alias Thacholippattu, in support of this position. The Tiyas of Malabar, like the Ezhavas of Cochin and Travancore, are with martial heritage.” (See Veluthampidalava (Malayalam), Kesari Printing and Publishing House, Trivandrum, 1124 (M.E.), p.9-10).

The third stratum of Ezhava society comprised agriculturists. They were the working class —— working in the farm, in the manufacture of various products from coconut tree like copra, mat and toddy. The three-tiered organisation underwent many vicissitudes due to the resurgence of Hinduism and the Aryan migration to the South.

The Ezhavas, in the known historical past of their history, were followers of Buddhism. The revival of Hinduism under Sankaracharya would not have put the Ezhavas on the defensive at least during the life time of the Acharya. But Aryan migration to the South and Brahmanical twists and turns posed a real challenge. By the time Brahmanical rites and temple-centred rules of life and living gained ascendancy, the Ezhavas found themselves being pushed into the margins. It marked the beginning of the decline of this community in the social sphere.

The most distressing factor that contributed to the social decline of the Ezhavas was the support extended to the Brahmins by the local rulers. The Ezhavas were systematically side-tracked and finally branded as untouchables.

By the 18th and 19th centuries practices of untouchability and unapproachability had turned Kerala into a “lunatic asylum.” Ezhavas bore the brunt of this violent form of discrimination. Temples became inaccessible to them. They had to pay head tax, thalakkaram, while Ezhava women wee forced to give bread tax, mulakkaram. There were prescribed distances to be kept by Ezhavas when they came across certain savarna castes in public places. Education was denied to Ezhava children. Schools run by the government from public funds to which Ezhavas also contributed through taxes, were inaccessible to them. But admission was easy to educational institutions run by Christian missionaries and this opportunity was excellently availed of by the Ezhavas. Government Service was a different matter and even educated were turned away. Malabar, which came under direct British supremacy in 1792, was an exception. The British couldn’t care less about caste with the result that a large number of Ezhavas or Tiyas achieved important positions in the administrative structure of that region.

One of the men who was denied a job in the princely state of Travancore on caste grounds was P Palpu who had qualified as a doctor from a college in the Madras Presidency. He went to Mysore, another princely state, and got a government position in accordance with his qualification. The humiliation heaped upon him by his own state subsequently became the trigger for a movement of Ezhavas against social discrimination and casteism.

The inspiration was provided by one of the greatest spiritual leaders of India, Sree Narayana Guru. With his magic slogan “one caste, one religion, one God for man,” he exposed the hollowness of casteism. Born to Ezhava parents, he learnt Sanskrit and Tamil. A study of the Hindu scriptures convinced him that caste and caste-based superiority had no support in the scriptures. As the whole thing was man-made, he argued, the remedy should be sought outside the ambit of Hindu scripture and religious practices. It was the basic goodness of man that mattered, not his caste or religion, he said. He preached his doctrines in Kerala and beyond.

Sree Narayana’s campaign against caste adopted simple, commonsensical means. Since Ezhavas were denied the right of worship in temples he consecrated a Siva Linga at Aruvippuram, a Suburb of Trivandrum, in 1888. Enraged Savarnas were consoled by his assurance that he had only installed his own Siva, meaning that the Savarnas were free to think that their Siva was still safe. In two temples, in the place of the deity, he erected mirrors, making his message clear to all. He strongly advocated internal reform among Ezhavas, especially the abandonment of meaning social customs. Understanding the importance of education, he encouraged his followers to establish schools and other educational institutions. He told them to start industries and businesses as well.

The inspiration provided by Sree Narayana Guru prompted Dr Palpu and other associates to establish an organisation that would work for social egalitarianism and the abolition of discrimination in the name of caste. This was born, in 1903, the Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam (S N D P Yogam).

The Yogam’s general secretary for many years was the famous poet, Kumaran Asan. A profound scholar in Malayalam and Sanskrit, Asan’s introspective nature went hand in glove with his revolutionary commitment to social progress. Through organisational work and the wielding of his sharp pen, Asan could churn the minds of thinking people. He edited the journal Vivekodayam which carried the S N D P Yogam’s ideas far and wide.

Kumaran Asan was nominated as a member of the Sree Moolam popular Assembly, the legislature of Travancore. He used this forum effectively to improve the position of Ezhavas and other socially backward castes. Other non-controversial stalwarts of the Ezhava community were C Krishnan, T K Madhavan and Sahodaran Ayyappan. Through active participation in the agitations of the Civil Right League in the 1920s and the Abstention Movement of the 1930s, the Ezhava community secured substantial political and economic gains.

After independence, the pulls and pressures of politics have affected the destiny of Ezhavas as much as those of other communities. In the early 1950s, for example, Ezhava political leader

R Sankar entered into an alliance with Nayar leader Mannathu Padmanabhan to start a campaign for the “unity of Hindus.” They called it Hindu Maha Mandalam. Whatever may be the political thinking behind the movement, it did not tally with the higher ideals of Narayana Guru.

The positive side is that under the Sree Narayana Trust, the community is running a large number of educational institutions. The press has been a powerful channel for the general upliftment of the community as well as for making its causes widely known. The services of Kerala Kaumudi daily, Vivekodayam and Mitavadi have been invaluable.

Prof Kusuman is head of the department of history at the university of Kerala

Ezhava and thiyya pls anzr me

Some say Ezhavas and thiyyas are different races.But this is hidden agenda by some vetsed interest to divide the community.The word Ezhava have derived from izham and Thiyya derived from dweep both pointing to island. If so, why are there no ezhavas in north kerala but in karnataka with the names billava and idiga which echos similar to word ezhava? Why idigas is karnataka also called deevaru ? Why edigas is "AndhraPradesh" also called Dhiyaramakkalu, name resembling ezhava and thiyya? How come both have same surname like thandan, thandar, chekavar? Why both have same traditional resposibilities/Jobs in the society, like toddy shopping, Ayurvedic business, martial art? If one set of people from Europe then their mother tongue might be completely different from those in kerala. Then, why those people not using that language, now? Atleast they should have still using some of the words of that language. (Its also remember that kerala's current population's history doest go back beyond 2000 years. Konkani community who started settlement in kerala around 1500 years back still using their mother tongue.) There is a place called "Ezhavathuruthi" in Malappuram Ditrict of kerala. Still ezhavas are called thiyyas there, why? In maladives history, it says the original inhabitants of islands were theevarus and they left the islands to cape camrin in india when 'outsiders' attacked the island.

Also there is shocking refence in old British travalogue which calls Thiyya as shanan? Actually shanans are old name nadars in tamil nadu. see a link here http://krpcds.org/report/Ganesh.pdf

How can you compare wrt complexion? how can you say ezhavas are darker than thiyya couterparts? Both have fair and darker people. one of the most beatiful malayali actress Ranichandra was born in south. So the case Kr vijaya, Mukesh, Rathish, devan, chippi etc... If yopu have seen Minister Mullakkara Ratnakaran few years back you might have exclaimed. he was born in Mullakkara(kollam) http://www.kerala.gov.in/government/mullaka.htm.

I am not telling all are fair in south but there both dark and fair skinned people in north awa south not just in thiyya/ezhava, but in vast majority communities.

Daya anjali 09:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem here is with the wrong perception of some Thiyyas about Ezhavas, that Ezhavas were merely toddy tappers and laborers. But that's not the fact. Ezhavas too have martial, Ayurvedic traditions, Aristocratic families, landlords etc. My family had acres of agricultural land in the 19th.

I have also seen comments saying "don't allign with us for glory".. What glory? I don't know if that was written by a thiyyan or an outsider. Whatever it be, I personally know people who think both (E n T) are two different castes and someothers (my thiyya relatives) think both are the same.

Regarding skin color, it's a fact that thiyyas are fairer on an average. That doesn't mean they migrated from Tiyan mountian. Some famous Thiyyas like Srinivasan, Azheekode, Pappu doesn't look caucasian as stated in the book Lanka Parvam (by Damu). I think the book was written out of imagination and lack proper study. Someone commented above "We just don't have that paandi look".. Please understand we all are descendands of dravidians. Tamilians are darker because there were no race mixing. They are purer than us. User:Panikkar

I have seen Ezhava-thiyya differences only in these forums. If you are outiside kerala like Bangalore, chennai, Mumbai,coorg, Gulf etc u wont notice differences. Marriage between from ezhavas of SOUTH KERALA AND PLACES LIKE KANNUR are very common in these areas and its very difficult identify them as by their local names. 125.16.143.133 05:06, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

answer is =

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Ezhava Follows Patriarchal family systems - A tottally wrong articulation

The upper class ezhavas in south kerala always followed Matriarchal family systems while lower class followed Patriarchal family systems. All channar, Chekavar, panicker, vaidyar, thampi(ezhava), Thandar families followed Matriarchal family systems only. Some families which follows are listed here http://www.alummoottil.com/Heritage/Radhakrishnan/Chapter02/C2P01.htm

Daya anjali 07:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Are Ezhavas from Iran?

There is a tradition in the ‘Vadakkan pattukal’ that the Ezhavas arrived in Kerala by sea from Ezham, which is interpreted to be the present day Sri Lanka. However, it is interesting to note that the land to the east of the Tigris in Iran, now called Khuzistan was once known as Elam. A civilization flourished there five thousand years ago with city states having distinctive culture and language. Their language is found similar to the Dravidian language. In any case it appears that the ancestors of the present inhabitants of south India had arrived here by sea rather than by land from the north. It was only at a much later stage that the region now constituting Kerala developed its distinctive culture.

Link [1]

Daya anjali 05:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Peace !!!!!!!!!!

Guys Peace! I am no anthropologists. What ever I have stated in my previous discussion was based on my personal observation and experience. I have got friends from all over Kerala and I got opportunities to attend some of their marriages. There are indeed lots of differences between people from Malabar and South Kerala. The differences are not just in looks, there are also difference in language, dressing, food and hospitality.

On one of the wedding that I attended was in Trissur, where the groom was from a Syrian catholic, very well to do family and the bride was a Marthomite from Thiruvalla. It was obviously a love arranged marriage. When the bride's party arrived at the scene there were some silent comments from the guests on the groom side. These were mainly on looks and dressing. Even thought most of the people on bride side were NRI's, mainly from Kuwait and US.

Similarly I attended another wedding reception between thiyya bride and ezhava groom in Ernakulam. When the bride walked on to the stage, I could again here silent voices in the background from guests on groom side specifically on the looks and dressing of the bride.

I can go on and on... But my point is that Malabar and South remained divided in the past for too long and mixing of people didn’t happen. South I have to agree have got more pure stock of Dravidians than north. If you argue based on the "kola thozil" as the basis for a caste, then how can nadars be considered different from ezhavas, similarly billavas from thiyyas.

So let peace remain, the marriages continue and we will have one big happy family! --Keralone 23:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

My deleted posts/ Vandalised

Let me first paste the reply from Wikipedia

My postings deleted Why?

I find that two of my posting on the page Talk:Ezhava has been removed. Is it done by the editor or by someone else? Is it because the posts are content rich and not mere repeatation of oft repeated themes.

My posts headings include: A general answer

Please give me an answer someone.

--Ved from Victoria Institutions 18:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

No, that is vandalism. Feel free to undo it. Though I would have to say that you would probably be better served being more concise, as people are more likely to read such material. The Evil Spartan 18:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC) It helps to look at the edit history of a page. You can see who added or deleted what. The removal in this case was done by an IP user, which means it could have been anyone. They did not leave much of an edit summary, so there's no way to determine their reasoning (although Spartan is probably right in this case). This sort of thing happens every day. Several times a minute, actually. [[2]] User:DarkAudit:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

--Ved from Victoria Institutions 11:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC) It doesn't help feigning blind to facts. It reaches us nowhere

I am re-posting my three posts; I did not know that it was so noticeable as to provoke inimical minds.

Post One:

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

I do not have any particular affinity for the Thiyyas as well as for the Ezhavas, other than as other human beings. Yet, I can relate some experiences. During my college days in Travancore, when my caste was mentioned, I found Ezhavas arguing vehemently that I was a Ezhava, while, though I had no great caste consciousness, I found it a bit disconcerting when persons of unconnected and unknown social groups claiming that I belonged to their group. What disturbed more was their attitude of self-righteousness, as well as seeming right to such claims.

Yet, can I say that I find that Thiyyas themselves are all of supreme levels? I do not think so. One of the reasons that the Thiyyas of such places as Tellicherry and Cannanore did prosper much was due to such institutions as Brennen College and the English convents then.

Brennen College opened its doors to all, without reference to their castes, so that the Thiyyas of Tellicherry literally got a unique opportunity that had possibly not come their way in a thousand years or more. Yet, this opportunity was not a blessing for such castes as the Nairs, as they found that they were going to be forced to sit with the lower castes. They could only join the Zamarin’s college, faraway at Calicut, which was not financially feasible for most.

So English education, as well as bureaucratic jobs came the Thiyya way. It had a tremendous effect on the social scenario, for there were Thiyya Magistrates, where the feudal landlords were from the higher castes. Yet, it was not a low intellectual breed of bureaucrats, but persons well trained in liberal English systems.

I can relate another incident. One of my relatives was in Bombay; working as an officer in a British company, extremely fair, very good in English, and the children good in English, and knowing only a bit of Malayalam. This person told me one incident. They were living in an Apartment. Their caste was not an issue there as most of the others were non Malayalees. In the early 60’s some Ezhavas came to stay in the Apartment. Naturally as Malayalees, they tried close association. Then this person told me, ‘They claimed that Ezhavas and Thiyyas are same. Immediately we converted in to Menons”.

I do not know what this incident is to be seen as; may be as the minor tragedies that are destined to haunt the minor moods of an inferior social system.

The present day descendants of this person, who ‘simply converted to Menon”, do not display the same level of superior looks, other than what money and English speaking ability can lend. I have found Ezhavas also who are coming from families who have domiciled in English nations also having similar personality development.

Yet, there is no need for the Ezhavas to be so bent on claiming that Thiyyas are Ezhavas, when the Thiyyas themselves do not think so. In fact, before the Kerala State formation, I doubt if many Thiyya had even heard the word Ezhava, for the whole focus then was on Madras as the Capital. Ezhavas can develop, imbibing good cultural standards as well as English. Similarly the Thiyyas (most of them) can also make use of the same, for betterment.

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Another issue that I would like to rake up is sure to rattle more emotions. It is about Sree Narayana Guru. He sure must have been a very vibrant intellectual. Yet, his relevance to Malabar social problems’ alleviation is not clear. There is a Temple at Temple Gate, Tellicherry, where the Thiyyas go for social celebrations. Yet, the most important force that stood by them was the British rule and the English language. As for Narayana Guru himself, I doubt what would have been his plight if the British supremacy over Travancore Kings and the British installed Supreme Court had not been in place. If one wants to see how persons who incurred Royal Wrath was treated over there in the Travancore-Cochin regions, one can go to the Hill Palace Museum, at Tripunithura, and see the metal human frame there.

Also, one may find mention of many other social leaders who worked for the uplift-ment of the Ezhavas; yet, the same kinds of persons who worked for the social uplift-ment of Thiyyas are conspicuous by their absence in Malabar. This again points to the existence of a major political force in existence in Malabar, which opened the doors for the Thiyyas.

Then I need to answer to the claim that the growing inputs of feudalism in the Malayalam language, growing corruption in bureaucracy, and other atrophies are signs of growth, and that my noticing them are because of generation gap. I find it a shallow manner to understand the reality. If Sati comes back into popularity, will anyone say it is just what is happening in other places in the world in some different manner; or that if anyone notices it’s evilness, that it is due to generation gap?

The other thing that needs mention is the mention of Official Positions in this debate, wherein titles of doubtful value intellectually are being used to give force to shallow arguments. It is a misuse of government titles of dubious value. --Ved from Victoria Institutions 11:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

It would be very foolish to call me a Nair, for I would object to it, not because a Nair is not a human being, but because as per caste identifications, a Nair is not a Thiyya; also not because he or she is a superior or inferior. It is just a fact of colloquial understandings that a Nair is not a Thiyya.

Again, I did mention the reaction to my assertive words: I am a Thiyya. What I wanted to convey is that if a Pulaya can say with the same assertiveness: ‘I am a Pulaya’ then the inferiority feelings may simply disappear. At present the law forbids the calling a Pulaya a Pulaya; yet one can call a Brahmin a Brahmin and there is no problem. If Pulayas had the same chance that a minor percentage of Thiyyas had, to receive British/English exposure, it is very much possible that they too would have improved much. Even though I do not know much about it, I think the Pulayas did not get this chance for English education from them.

Talking about other castes, when one goes to interior Malabar, even so-called higher castes like the Brahmins, Nairs etc. do not exhibit a modern type of mental elevation. The social elevations most have are just a form of crude, cunning feudal strangling of lower groups, and an affable attitude to socially higher groups. Yet, this is not really a Caste character, but really a reality of the Indian social scene.

Nairs are Kshartiyas.

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam

in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Thus, Ezhavas do not need to have any inferiority complex; and no need to identify with anyone else.

As for me being a Thiyya, it is just a matter on which I had no choice or control; this fact is a matter of supreme indifference to me, till someone starts identifying me with other groups.

Yet, when my full stance is known, I do know that most Thiyyas would object to my posture. It is that all this caste classifications are necessary due to the reservations now in force for numerous castes, in public appointment and education. I basically hope that all such nefarious priorities are done away with. For, this has allowed the entry of unfit person not only in bureaucracy, but also in education.

I am sure that most readers here would stand against me in this attitude.

--Ved from Victoria Institutions 11:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Yet, the problem that time was the situation they described was of no connection to us. This was basically because of being the English educated Thiyya from North Malabar, and that too from a bureaucrat’s family. There were many other Thiyyas of similar disposition then in Travancore, who had come there due to the Kerala State formation, wherein they had opted for Kerala Service instead of Madras State Service. It was these Thiyyas who acutely felt the difference from the local Ezhava from Travancore.

Yet, similar experiences were there for the majority Thiyyas in Malabar, but in a most subdued manner due to the fact that political power had been in British hands. I remember one Nambiar woman from interior Cannanore telling me that when they were young, Thiyyas were not allowed inside their premises, and even Muthappan Vellattom was perceived as a low caste invocation.

Then talking about complexion, actually it is not dark features that are remarkable. For American Blacks are dark and African Blacks are also dark; yet one discerns a real difference in the American Black of slave descent.

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

All higher castes persons including young children were addressing lower level Thiyya men and women of even very senior age with a ‘Nee’, and ‘Ooan’(him) or ‘Ooal’ (she). There were many other connected words, which really had the strength of social codes. I can’t go into them here, as it is a long theme.

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala

Why I am writing all this is because I do trace many social events and designs to the codes in languages. Interested persons may visit this link to see another writing of mine in a UK debate forum.ukresident

When I visited Wikepedia after so many days, I found that two of my posts have disappeared. I do not know if someone would do the same again with this article. I find that more acceptability can be derived here, if I simply go on repeating on the glorious traditions of the castes under discussion, instead of giving out some meaningful information. --Ved from Victoria Institutions 11:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

PS

Now a few words on Vandalising: it sure is the pastime of mediocre minds; what else can they do with the meagre inputs they have in their minds?

--Ved from Victoria Institutions 11:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

My posts have been completely removed twice in two days. I pity the petty Vandal. --Ved from Victoria Institutions 16:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Toddy tappers

Ezhavas are toddy tappers from kerala. Maximum number of toddy tappers are in Kannur, malappuram, Thrissur and Alappuzha. However when large number of hindus converted into Islam in malabar, expecially in Malappuram, some have moved down to Thrissur and some moved to kannur. Pinarayi vijayan is a son of a toddy tapper from kannur. Srinivasan's grandfather, Sukumar azhukk's father all are to toddy tappers. Vellappaly natesan have a lot of toddy shops in alappuzha.A lot of ezhavs in thiruvananthapuram were slaves of warrior caste nairs. so in rest of the kerala