User talk:Clio the Muse

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Archives
1) 24 October 2006 – 29 March 2007 2) 2 April 2007 – 20 May 2007

Bye Bye

Clio, sad to say, is now retiring. To those who may come by this way I refer you to the statement at the top of my user page. Farewell from Doctor Anastasia, yes, that's right, now a Doctor! Clio the Muse 03:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, Dr Clio. As for leaving the Ref Desk, I, for one, wish you would reconsider. I think I understand your reasons, but I express a wish that you carry on regardless. -- JackofOz 03:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

:-( ~ hydnjo talk  04:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh cripes Clio! I came here to suggest that you should edit in your Reference Desk material at the articles in question. I shall begin myself with the latest and paste them into Discussion pages. I just know you'll be back: Wikipedia is habit-forming.--Wetman 04:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations on the good and unsurprising news, Dottoressa. And the other ... well, chiming in, fortissimo, on requests to reconsider. Your editing never wastes anyone's time, not even your own, I hope. As you pointed out yourself, it keeps your lateral mind stretched and flexified. You can take Mondays off, but do come back. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Cool you graduated. I guess ref desk was a fun (?) distraction from thesis writing. Good luck in the future. David D. (Talk) 15:07, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I just read your mesage on the user page. My advice would be to ignore the idiotic crap on the ref desks and contribute to the articles. Your contributions there would be lasting and more useful to wikipedia. Let the ref desk regulars stew in their own ratatouille. Or would that be alphabet soup (A to Z)? David D. (Talk) 15:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! May I heft your dissertation? Wow! It's so thick I can barely lift it! And the gold title stamped on the spine looks great! Hope to see you back on ref desk at some point. Am envious of your future students. Edison 16:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

We Hope Clio Returns

Sincere congratulations, Dr. Anastasia/Clio, on having completed a significant step in your academic life. I will be personally very sorry not to find your lovely essays on the Ref Desks, however they are categorized. (I'd suggest an "Answers by Clio" page, but it might be considered, shall we say, argumentative?) There seems to be a type of editor that, in concert with others of equally disruptive intention, acts on Wikipedia like a grand mal seizure, shuddering through every so often, leaving everyone involved shaken, disoriented, and desparately seeking solid ground. This, too, will pass, though it will come again. I hope you return, sooner rather than later. In the meantime, I shall just hang onto the sides until the shaking stops. Bielle 05:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you all

I thank you all, and I would ask all admins. to be aware that this page is under assault from one 'Eptypes', who gives every indication of being a sockpuppet. Clio the Muse 06:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Clio WTF???!!!

What the hell is going on here Clio? The cross is in the heather and the clans are rising!!! SeanScotland 06:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Apologies

I apologize for having undermined Reference Desk in the past and promise to keep away from it in the future. If you have a problem with some other obnoxious editor, just let me know and we'll hunt the bastard down. You are an asset to the project, and - as others have pointed out already -article space is the place where your erudition may be better appreciated. --Ghirla^-трёп- 07:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to have not responded sooner. I was busy translating Viking ring fortress for Russian wikipedia. It's good to hear that our little bickering did not drive us blind. I respect your contributions to the project and I'm amazed to learn that you know so much about my country. Reading your user page has been worthwhile, particularly the listing of "favourite fictions" and "favourite non-fictions". Our literary tastes overlap in many areas (Herodotus, Montaigne, Austen), although I'd always prefer Tolstoy to Dostoyevsky and "Bleak House" to "Our Mutual Friend". I possess the very first Russian edition of the latter novel, by the way.

If the little clique has been rude and meddlesome, perhaps WP:RFC or WP:RFAR is a solution. Their antics are not a valid reason for leaving the project at their mercy. You may want to contact User:Bishonen or User:Geogre: they probably know how to deal with this sort of nuisance better than I do. Still, I have some experience at dispute resolution. If you need to ask something, my e-mail has been activated. --Ghirla^-трёп- 12:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Eh?

I dunno what's been happening. Maybe it's time to take my head out of the sand. To quote the immortal Van Morrison, "Baby please don't go"! --Dweller 07:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Van the Man also spake unto me: "We counted pebbles in the sand Sand like time slippin' through our hand". --Ghirla^-трёп- 07:36, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for all of your efforts here. They were appreciated. Hipocrite - «Talk» 12:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

:(

You were my second-favorite RD poster. Now I'm unhappy. I don't really understand the kerfuffle that sent you away, but I hope it wasn't severe enough to make this a true and permanent retirement. <3 --TotoBaggins 15:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Please don't leave

As the most responsive and informative editor at the Reference Desk, you are invaluable. Don't let this drive you away. Just let it roll over you back. There are other fish to fry. Please? Corvus cornix 17:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

CLIO DON'T GO

I do not really understand what has been going on, and why you feel so put out, but please, please do not go. Who will answer my Russian questions if not you? You are my heroine Dr Anastasia, and Fred will be lost without you. Let me put it like this: you go I go! You have a public to serve, young lady. Do not let them down!!!! OK? Fred said right 18:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The Return

I read on Rockpocket's talk page that you will be back. I am looking forward to learning more history, and being better entertained while doing so, than any number (well, 14, I think) of other teachers succeeded in doing. Yeah Clio!!!!Bielle 20:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:RFAR

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Cilo_the_Muse.2C_Hipocrite.2C_Rockpocket.2C_StuRat.2C_Loomis51.2C_A.Z._.26_me_Eptypes. --Eptypes 23:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Clio, I'd advise ignoring this, it is entirely without merit and merely a distraction. Rockpocket 23:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

It's truly contemptable, Rockpocket. Of course I will not respond. It fills me with disgust. Clio the Muse 23:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Clio Arises

First of all let me say how completely overwhelmed I was by the messages posted here and by the various emails I have received, some of which brought on the gushes! My decision to resign was not, as was alleged by one person, to cause a 'drama' or to get everyone to tell me how much 'they love me', though I think this contention gives much insight into the true character of the user in question. I will be responding to each of you with a brief note of thanks on your individual talk pages, but here, for those who are uncertain what the problem was, is an extended note of explanation.

I became aware yesterday evening while I was working on the Humanities desk that virtually all of the answers I had given to previous question were being hived off to a newly created 'History Desk'. At first I though this was just a misguided attempt by a new user to introduce unecessary refinements. I immediately raised an objection against fragmentation on the RD page, and made it clear that changes of this kind could only proceed by consensus. History, as far as I am concerned, comes under the broad heading of Humanities; and while most of the answers I give are to history-related issues, I also answer questions on philiosophy, literature, sociology and politics, wherever I can make some meaningful and useful contribution. However, as the fragmentation of the desk proceeded despite my objection, I became acutely aware that there were 'other forces' at work, which I cannot discuss here because it would possibly put me in breach of Wikipedia policies. Suffice to say I think a serious attempt was being made to wall me up in an 'intellectual ghetto.' I would rather say nothing at all that be forced to respond under a separate 'History' heading that I despised. Hence my decision to resign. I had no idea how quickly equilibrium would be restored. The decency and common-sense of most people here is truly remarkable. But there is another reason for my return, and I also, for the sake of truth, have to make this plain. The very presence of Clio the Muse is seemingly a cause of deep resentment for some, a little faction I think of as the 'Macbeth Witches', for want of a better term. Spells do not work, character assassination does not work, and malice does not work. My very presence is a kind of victory. Clio arises; and Clio arises stronger than ever. Clio the Muse 23:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Huzzah! Welcome back, Doc!  :) Corvus cornix 23:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Aha! We're soooo glad that you noticed! ;-) ~ hydnjo talk  00:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how much this matters, but I had never imagined that the History Desk would appear to Clio to be a ghetto to wall her up. Other suggestions had been made to create a separate reference desk for History, though I don't seem able to find the diffs now.

I also have nothing against the mere presence of her, and I would not be proud of being a part of anything like the 'Macbeth Witches', the resentful group of people that she seems to believe that I, StuRat and Lewis are. I just don't like somethings Clio says, and I think many of them are harmful and very harmful was the way that she treated people when questioned about her remarks. I wish I could ask her what she really means by those things, but I am afraid of writing anything on her talk page and sending her e-mails, because of her past behavior and because of the way that she reacted to my first post on her talk page.

She did appear to be sorry for her first rejection of my attempt to communicate, but now she made up her mind that, only because I misinterpreted two remarks by her and am a friend of Lewis and StuRat, I resent her presence and am willing to be dishonest and to try to send her away from Wikipedia by using sockpuppets and the like. The fact is that I never reached any conclusion, and I just wish she could help me find out what she really meant by those two and by the many other remarks, and I wish she accepted to debate with me and with everyone what she means and how right it is what she means, instead of claiming that we are being malicious and campaigning to make everyone hate her. A.Z. 02:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, Clio appears to avoid debate. She presents her well-informed capsules of useful information and subtly suggests links and further reading, in answer to those questions at the Reference Desk that are not covert invitations to debate, and she moves on. Wikipedia is a readers' service, not a debating vehicle, and Clio serves the readers well. Thank you Clio. --Wetman 02:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Why couldn't we say that? ~ hydnjo talk  03:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

So, I shouldn't care about Clio at all, nor discuss what she says and does, nor debate anything with her? Should I only care about whether the majority of readers allege to be happy with her contributions, and then shut up if I realize they do? A.Z. 03:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

No, you just present your own answer (that might be a rebutal or an elaboration), with sources and further reading, and move on. I think this has been mentioned on Lewis' talk page a few times now. David D. (Talk) 04:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Great! How would I have managed without you? Fred said right 09:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The Castle

Just curious, I stumbled across your user page and was wondering why you stated that you enjoyed Kafka's The Castle. I've read pretty much all of Kafka's work (the Castle being the most recent) but didn't care for it as much as the others. Hence I was just wondering why you liked it. Thanks. (sorry for being nosy) :o) b_cubed 03:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, b cubed. You can be as nosy as you like. It's really just a case of personal preference, and possibly for the most idiosyncratic of reasons. I, too, have read all of Kafka, starting with Metamorphoses when I was about thirteen years old. I am not sure that I fully understood him at that age, but he left an abiding impression. The Castle attracted me in particular because of its depiction of an odd-close yet distant-world of arbitrary and mysterious authority. It was just how I saw the adult world, and the world, in particular, of my boarding school. But I confess it was the characters of Arthur and Jeremiah, the terrible twosome, that I fell in love with. This was the same time that I discovered the artwork of the Belgian surrealist, René Magritte, and I painted A and J for an art class, very much in his unique style. My teacher said it was the oddest and most surreal thing she had ever seen! Clio the Muse 23:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. Sadly, I don't think I share the same enjoyment for A and J. Personally, I liked Kafka's The Burrow, In the Penal Colony and many of his shorter works such as An Imperial Message and Passerbys. I think the reason I didn't care too much for The Castle was the fact that it ended midsentence! Quite frustrating (granted he never finished it but yeah...). Anyways, thanks for replying. It's always nice to meet someone else who likes Kafka. :o) b_cubed 05:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I like his shorter pieces, too. In the Penal Colony was horribly fascinating! Clio the Muse 05:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Glad you are still here

I'm really glad you are here, my lady, and the clans have sheathed swords and gone home! Could you please have a look at my question on the Humanities Desk? SeanScotland 09:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Clio!

Hi, You don't know who I am but I was devastated to hear that you might not be around any more. I'm so glad that is not the case. If you ever did disappear, you would be greatly missed. 213.48.15.234 08:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Like so many people here, you are amazingly decent. Please let me know if I can ever help you in any way, 213.48. Love Clio the Muse 19:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I will do so! But it will be under another guise, as this IP is not permanent! I shall be sure to whisper the password to you if i ever do need that help... I think you know what i mean... 213.48.15.234 14:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course I do! Clio the Muse 00:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Me too!!

Clio, I only just found out about this. What a relief! Can you not imagine the vacant space your absence would create? Martinben 11:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

You, too, Martinben. Love Clio the Muse 19:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Barbatio

I was glad to see you'd finally taken the plunge - there is no going back now! Thanks for your excellent (and speedy) work, the coverage is much more comprehensive that I could have achieved myself. Infact, its going to be a nice little article indeed; its always pleasing when a question at the Desk has a direct positive impact on the encyclopaedia. There are a few minor formatting and phrasing changes that I'll make when I get a chance, just to bring in line with WP:MoS, I'll be gentle though! Rockpocket 19:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I am a virgin, after all! Clio the Muse 19:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha, was! Now I feel guilty, yet also secretly triumphant, for tempting you from your article space abstinence ;) Rockpocket 19:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was seduced by a scientist, of all people! How will I ever face my colleagues? Clio the Muse 19:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The shame. However, you forget that us scientists have a secret weapon in our, er, seduction tool box: DNA helicase - perfect for... cue drum roll... "unzipping genes"! Rockpocket 20:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

OOH! Clio the Muse 01:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Simultaneous pinning (double double)

Half a star for your expansion of Barbatio (You should frequent WP:RDAC and "join" it, maybe it can be revived.). The other half for everything else! :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 19:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Great! Stars from a star! Clio the Muse 19:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Can we put that article on the main page via Template_talk:Did_you_know? --Typeswork 22:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thats a good idea. I'll make a DYK nom later this afternoon. Rockpocket 23:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I made the nom here, I'll let you know if it makes it on to the front page. Rockpocket 08:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Anastasia even has a publishing contract!

You know something Clio, when I went to Technical college and university, I was told to buy books. These books had information which was not contained in "the sum of all human knowledge" i.e. Wikipedia.

The books had chapters which looked like Wikipedia articles, and I could easily scan them and post as new articles. But they were copyrighted. So much for Free Information Revolution!

You answer many questions on Wikipedia with which you are familiar with, in great detail. But why not edit the articles, and post your diff (your revision of the article) as the answer?

You have been able to defend yourself very well even with all the disputes going on. Please reconsider your decision on not to edit articles on Wikipedia. --Typeswork 22:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Typeswork. The page on Barbatio, started by Rockpocket, was, I suppose, my first move in a new direction. I was a little discouraged, I confess, from editing main pages when I joined last October by reactions to some observations I made on the talk page of one article in particular. But things are changing. I grow stronger all the time, in the fashion of Sol Invictus. So, I am now likely to follow the path you and many others have suggested. Clio the Muse 23:20, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's suggest something else: someone assumes the task of putting Clio's answers on to the talk pages of relevant articles... then anyone can add them. Obviously, though, the only way of giving Clio any credit is a note on the talk page to that effect. I think Clio deserves more credit that way - we have few wikiDoctors.martianlostinspace 12:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

We should be trying to do that with many answers on the Ref Desk, when they are not sourced from Wikipedia. See WP:RDAC. Rockpocket 17:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys! It's all for the greater glory; so I do not really care if I get credit or not. Now, where I do care, that is a different matter altogether! Clio the Muse 01:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

the agony and the ecstasy

Dear lady, let me first explain that i have not been at work (and ergo not on-line) for the past week, my darling wife had a fall and since she is 6 monthes pregnant, we have had a few days of worry, followed by many of tears, joy, and relief that everything is going to be ok. Upon my return today, i went thru the above again (thou to a lesser degree, i'm sure you'll understand) on reading the latest edits on your discussion page (always the first place i go, when i open wiki, i'm sure you'll understand). I just want to add, that i am one happy bunny that you are arisen, the short time that i have 'known' you Dave sorry, Dr Clio ( a timelady, i knew it!!!) i have come to the understanding that you will not go gentle into that good night and wiki would be the lesser for your loss, so dear lady, very well done on your Dr, a lot of hard work i am sure and well earned, always take heart from the positive edits that you receive...

Ah Dr Clio, i sheemed to have undereshtimated your tenachity, i think we shahall being sheeing, shomewhat more of eachh other, till then...X Perry-mankster 08:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, Perry, You must have been frantic-I am so glad that it all turned out well. As far as my little drama is concerned, you are quite right I will not go gently into that night, but rage, rage against the dying of the light!. The lady, Perry, is a fighter. As always, I thank you for your good wishes. Love to you and yours, from one who kills, licenced or not! Clio the Muse 01:21, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

My Russian questions

I knew it would be you, I just knew it. You really are wonderful. Fred said right 05:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I think think you are wonderful for saying so, and I am always pleased to help, Fred. Clio the Muse 02:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

When's the book out then?

Congratulations on your graduation and publishing contract, just be sure to let us all know when your books come out, you have a ready made reference desk readership. Cyta 15:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Cyta. I've given myself as much leeway as possible in the contract. Not only do I need a little 'personal freedom' over the summer, but turning an academic dissertation into a saleable book (and I am determined on that!) is a major task in itself! Clio the Muse 00:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

A concern

Britain in 1950. Please understand that this is in no way a critique about the quality of your information, it is great work. My concern is that you've just written a report for a high school student who could paste your answer into a word processor with the student's name, print it out and turn it in without having to do anything more than ask Wikipedia.

Granted that my scenario isn't necessarily what happened with this question, but you provide such thorough answers to everyone it increases the overall likelihood of it happening with someone else.

I'm not saying you should stop giving such detailed answers to everyone, just maybe not the one's who mention needing info for a report or other scholarly project. For them can I suggest pointing the person in the right direction rather than providing a complete answer? (Don't get me wrong, smart students will figure out that they need to sound like someone NOT doing a report to get the quality answers so perhaps they have better things to do than a report on 1950 Britain for example. However a student that isn't smart enough to figure out this loophole really needs to help themselves.) Anynobody 08:50, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

This is a fair point, Anynobody, though, in fact, all of my answers simply provide a series of leads and indicators; they would not be sufficient in themselves, no matter how detailed; at least I hope not. If the question could be covered by existing Wikipedia pages, then I would simply flag these up, as I have done many times. In this particular example I do not believe that to be the case, or, rather, the number of pages to be linked is potentially enormous. Besides, I hope, and intend, that the answers I give can, in general, provide additional information that can only help to enrich the whole project. My task, as I see it, is to improve the tone of the Humanities Desk, for everybody, regular and casual users alike. Clio the Muse 09:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I totally understand why you give the information you do, and it's a noble idea. If the editor doesn't mention an academic need then by all means provide all the knowledge you can, a person looking for knowledge they want to know for themselves should be accommodated with as thorough an answer as possible. Trust me,¹ many of your answers could easily prompt a typical teacher in the US to award an A. (¹I can't give you a reason to since we've just met though.) Anynobody 09:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I understand! Teachers in England are obviously a lot tougher; mine were anyway! It's nice to have come across you, and I hope you keep in touch. All the very best from Clio the Muse 09:30, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Ice March

More nice work on this article, Clio. You are getting the hang of it now! I've played with a few minor things, but could I ask the source of the two quotes in the article? We generally attribute quotes directly with footnotes. I can do that if you let me know which are the sources they came from. Rockpocket 04:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, of course; I was not sure how these should be inserted. The Denikin quote is originally from his Ocherki russkoi smuti (2:224), but can be found in translation in Mawdsley's book at page 21. And the quote from Lenin is in the same book at page 22. Thanks for taking the time to look this over, Rockpocket. Clio the Muse 04:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Clio. I'll add the inline citations tomorrow as its late here after a long day. Thanks also for signing up at WP:RDAC. Sluzzelin and I have been trying to promote this as a way of improving access to the amazing work done at the Ref Desk for future readers. Although answers should always be in the archives (when they are not mysteriously going awol, that is) it seems crazy that some of the more comprehensive answers shouldn't be in their own articles. If you ever see something that could or should have an article of its own, feel free to list it and/or tag the question itself with {{WPRDAC attention|NAME OF PROPOSED ARTICLE}}. Rockpocket 08:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, those are kind words but quite an overstatement, I fear. Rockpocket (and V-Man) have been active there, not me sadly. My sole recent contribution lay in nudging Clio to add her name to the project. But I'll take this as a nudge to get involved again. By the way, what's that syndrome called in English? Here, we sometimes call it the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome in reference to newly opened food joints excelling in quality of service and food for the first three months, and then quickly and quietly sliding into mediocrity. :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 22:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You have a superb mind

An excellent and highly detailed answer to my question on German universities. You have a superb mind, one of the best I have come across. You are destined to rise, I feel sure to the top of your profession, and be a truly great historian. I hope we meet one day. E. G. A.. Husserl 06:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You are very kind, E. G. A. Clio the Muse 09:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I note that this questionner also believes that you are a "credit to your sex". My, my! I can only hope he is over 80 years of age. Bielle |  Chat  07:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC) (I was playing with my signature and forgot to change it back before I wrote this. I apologise for the inadvertent pyrotechnichs.(sp.?)

I'd rather be a 'credit' than a 'disgrace', though I manage to be a bit of both, Bielle! I love your new signature. I now have 'visions of you in shades of blue.' Very best wishes from the more anaemic Clio the Muse 09:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Any preference for "credit" over "disgrace", in my case, would be entirely dependent on the context. I have a strong bias here, believing in credit where it is due, and, in this case, it goes (in no particular order) to your memory, schooling, experience, hard work, language skills and intellect, and everything else that, by accident and design, have made Clio the Muse herself. Bielle 16:03, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

My thanks for your kind words. I place a high value on your good opinion, Bielle. Did you decide against the 'big blue you'? ♥ Clio the Muse 01:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I reconsidered. The "big blue" seemed a trifle over the top for someone as new as I am. Seeing as you are now on the front page, and have outdone yourself and almost everyone else on the Ref Desk, It would be much more apppropriate for you. Clio the Muse |  Chat 

Let me know if you do actually want to use it. I don't know how to change the base colours, but someone like User:Rockpocket or User:JackofOz can likely guide you there, if it is not another of your areas of excellence Bielle 01:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't look at me. I know nothing of such matters, and I generally abhor the tartification of signatures in this way, while allowing those to wish to engage in such unnatural practices the liberty they crave.  :) JackofOz 02:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

*embarrassed cough* ;) Rockpocket 02:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind offer, Bielle, but the 'little blue me' serves best. I'm probably far too conspicious as it is! Clio the Muse 02:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

A possible front page hit with your first article

Some material you wrote in Barbatio has been selected as part of a shortlist to feature on the main page! Keep an eye on the Did you know... section of the front page on Monday May 28, 2007 to see if it makes it. (It should be updated within about 6 hours from this timestamp, in the meantime you can see a preview: it would look something like this). Rockpocket 06:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the news, Rockpocket. I'll look out for it! Clio the Muse 09:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Clio. Do me a favour, could you check out my userpage intro and give an opinion. Too belligerent? Unbecoming of an admin? Or on the mark? Rockpocket 09:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way - you made it! Rockpocket 09:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

We made it; it never would have happened but for your lead! Clio the Muse 09:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

congrats

Well done, front page, busy workday, got to run, X Perry-mankster 09:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I love you too! Clio the Muse 09:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 28 May, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Barbatio, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Smee 10:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for the info., Smee Clio the Muse 01:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Barbatio

Rockpocket told me about this. I'm delighted by the hard work you and he put into the article, Clio. My deepest regards. General joffe 11:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations from me also. It's a superb piece of work, as is the Ice March. Fred said right 22:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Bluebird

The Ice March is very fine; I nominated it for DYK. I'm not sure whether bluebird is a specifically Russian idea, however. Russian fairy tales mention firebirds but not bluebirds. I suppose the image was introduced by Maeterlinck in L'Oiseau Bleu, which premiered in Moscow and was later turned by Vasily Livanov into the The Blue Bird (1970 film). The Soviet band Mashina vremeni has a cult 1970s song about this symbol of luck. The very poor page bluebird of happiness may give further useful tips on the subject. Best, Ghirla^-трёп- 19:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Ghirla. The image of the 'bluebird' is seemingly from Denikin himself: you will find the precise Russian reference above. Could Mawdsley, I wonder, have mistranslated? Clio the Muse 01:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Archive

Hi Clio. I've just noticed that your talkpage is a bandwidth crippling 206 kilobytes long, over 4 times the recommended page length. You should probably consider archiving. See Help:Archiving a talk page for ways how to do it or, if you'd prefer, I can do it for you in the same format as my page. Rockpocket 03:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Rockpocket; please go ahead. Clio the Muse 05:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Done, Clio. With your permission, I'll go ahead and archive old content whenever I notice your talkpage tp be getting particularly large. As you can see, its all linked at the top right of the page. Rockpocket 06:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Excellent work-it takes much less time now to travel from top to bottom! Clio the Muse 07:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Painting

Can you help with my Painting question on the Humanities Desk? Thanks 80.177.38.137 05:58, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

You have your answer, 80.177. Best wishes Clio the Muse 07:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Miss Clio, you truly are the creme de la creme. 80.177.38.137 22:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Crime and Punishment

I was amused to read your user page comment on reading Dostoevsky. I too read Crime and Punishment as a cocksure high school student and was quite disturbed at how much sympathy I had for Raskolnikov's logic. What were we saying about elitism, again? ;) Rockpocket 08:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I am an elitist, dear Rockpocket. The difference is that I am not obliged to hide the fact! Clio the Muse 08:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Stalin's week

Thanks, Clio, for another superb answer to my latest Russian question. You say that Russian history is not your speciality, but you seem to know more than anyone else here, more even than my own history teacher. I think in future I might just skip the reference desk altogether and come straight here with my questions. Is that OK? Fred said right 05:48, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't endorse this solution. I regularly visit the reference desk with the purpose of adapting Clio's replies into mainspace. Some of her recent answers have been incorporated into Roger Morrice, Persian Armenia and Madame de Pompadour, with due indication of provenance. I hope that Clio does not mind. --Ghirla^-трёп- 07:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, remember that others may learn as much from your question, and the subsequent answers, as you do. By bypassing the desk you are denying others that opportunity. Rockpocket 07:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I am, as always, delighted to have assisted you, Fred, but I agree with Ghirla and Rockpocket: your questions are better placed on the reference desk. In addition to the reasons already given, there may be instances where I do not have all of the information, or where others may be able to add to my comments. And Ghirla, Clio certainly does not mind. You are welcome to use the information I provide in any manner you wish, attributed or not. It is all to the greater good. Clio the Muse 10:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Constantinople

Hello. You were good enough to give me a very detailed answer to my recent question on Shah Abbas. Could you please have a look now at my question on Constantinople? This work is for a project I am beginning on the political structure and external relations of the Ottoman Empire. I hope you do not mind this direct approach. Very best wishes to you, Clio the Muse. Decline and fall 14:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Done! Clio the Muse 01:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for a tremendous answer to my question. A very great help indeed. Decline and fall 07:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On June 1, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ice March, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Hi Clio and thanks for your hard work. You have been awarded the pictured slot on today's DYK. This article kindly nominated by Ghirlandajo. Keep up the great work and do feel free to self nom in future. Happy editing, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:34, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Clio the Muse 02:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

hi

you answerd to my ? of cuba and i would like to know more about your trip and have you been to italy i would like to know more about that to?thanks for everything --Sivad4991 02:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Sivad. I've been to Cuba four times in all, Havana mostly, but also to Trinidad, Santa Clara and Pinar del Rio. If there is something specific you would like to know, just ask. Yes, I've also been to Italy, to Rome, Florence, Pisa, Naples, Ravenna, Milan and Venice. Clio the Muse 02:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

its me agin im a car fan and i would like to wurk for ferarii do you know where any of the factories are thanks --Sivad4991 02:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't. Try a google search. Clio the Muse 05:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The famous HQ and factory for Ferarri is in Maranello, near Modena. Its a good place to work too, ranking first in the 100 Best Workplaces in Europe list this year. The factory has a total area of 252,000 sq. m, and about 2,000 employees. There are two sites at Maranello, the main site that builds production cars and the newer Gestione Sportiva (Racing Department) situated alongside the Fiorano Circuit Rockpocket 07:33, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that information, Rockpocket. Clio the Muse 22:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Empress Clio

Thank you for your answer to my empire question. Where on earth does it all come from? You astound me, you really do. Martinben 12:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

It's one percent inspiration and....well, I think you know the rest! Thank you for your good opinion, Martinben. Clio the Muse 22:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

aarrrgghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dearest clio, work is a pain, the whole of fife has lost the plot, i see lewis is being an arse, ho hum, anyhoo must dash, clio thru the ages [1] as ever your servant X Perry-mankster 08:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow (@ Perry's art link), I'm still dizzy and entranced. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Perry, I agree with Sluzzelin: it is enchanting. The truly amazing thing is the continuity of the ideal face: the same features appear time and again! I hope I will always to be your ideal! On the other matter, what can I say, other than arses will always be arses; it is, after all, a 'fundamental' truth! Clio the Muse 13:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

By chance I noticed your translation request...

"My soul is sad! a secret terror haunts my heart." 82.169.148.34 13:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Good Lord, 82.169, that was quick! My sincere thanks! Clio the Muse 13:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. It's a line by Mussorgsky (not by Pushkin) opening the famous monologue of Boris Godunov. Here's a literal translation: "My soul is full of sorrow. Some vague, subconscious fear has enchained my heart with sinister premonitions". --Ghirla^-трёп- 13:33, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Andrey. I saw an excellent performance of Boris Gudunov in London, and an even better performance of Lady Macbeth of Mitsensk at the Bolshoi in Moscow (the little theatre, sadly; the main one was closed when I was there) Clio the Muse 13:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not into opera, but Boris Godunov is the one I have seen several times. The most memorable performance was the one at the Yaroslavl kremlin, against the backdrop of the medieval walls and huge belltower, a year or two ago. It looked very authentic in the open air. I also have a record of Chaliapin singing the part. It sends shivers down my spine each time I hear that voice. --Ghirla^-трёп- 13:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Andrey, you really amaze me; your English is absolutely superb. It is not just a question of literary fluency; you have a feel for the nuances and rhythms of the language that would shame most native speakers. I should not really be surprised, I suppose; my friends in Moscow all have a deep understanding of English. However, yours seems more 'intuitive', if that is the right expression. Have you lived for a time in an English-speaking country? Please forgive my curiosity, but I find this quite fascinating. Clio the Muse 14:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Clio, I thank you for your kind words, but I really think you are too kind to me. I am rather sceptical about my English. It is rife with Russianisms and I'm still lost when it comes to dealing with "a" and "the". English idioms are a closed book for me. And no, I have never been abroad, barring a brief stint in Germany when I was fourteen. While at school I was taught French. I have never spoken with a native speaker, and I don't think you would understand my pronunciation anyway. My knowledge stems from passing abnormal amounts of time on the web when I was a student. --Ghirla^-трёп- 16:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm still impressed! Clio the Muse 21:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Lewis BA, MBA, BCL, LLB

File:Four Dungarees.gif

Four dungarees

Hi Clio. I just wanted to thank you for your patience with my requests for temperance in the face of provocation over the last month or so. Sadly, my unblocking of the aforementioned scholar resulted in little more than further aggravation for you, please accept my apologies for that. This is indeed the end of it, since Loomis only remains unblocked for as long as he avoids any contact with you. You'll note he departed (for now) with a number of personal attacks on his talk page. I've left them untouched, simply because I don't think its worth responding to, but if you would rather they be refactored to remove the attacks on you, then let me know. Rockpocket 06:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

You have absolutely no need to apologise for anything, Rockpocket. I always believed you acted in a spirit of good faith and simple generosity. Your trust was betrayed, that's all, by an individual so hopelessly obsessed he cannot even recognise it himself. I would rather Dr Loomis' (four degrees) final remarks be allowed to remain as his Wikipedia epitaph-it gives a perfect insight into his character and almost total lack of intellectual comprehension. I would be grateful, though, if you could continue to keep an eye on this, as Dr. Loomis (four degrees) has a tendency to make more reapperances from the dead than Freddy Krueger! Clio the Muse 07:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

But what does one do with four dungarees? David D. (Talk) 07:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Wear them all at once, just to show how 'intelligent' your wardrobe is! Clio the Muse 07:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

File:Stooge-shemp.jpeg

Only three dungarees

That explains a lot. I had always thought these guys were just one dungaree shy of a full deck. David D. (Talk) 07:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, and I will keep an eye on things. I see David D. photographed the contents of his wardrobe and uploaded them just to make that that joke. Thats dedication for you. Rockpocket 07:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry, I have other colours too! I'm no fashion victim. ;) David D. (Talk) 07:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

David, you do by any chance have a pitchfork and a grumpy-looking wife? Clio the Muse 08:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Granted I Wood be an American gothic if i had any style. But i don't own any black pairs. David D. (Talk) 08:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Last battle

Your help is needed! SeanScotland 09:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It was Inverkeithing in Fife, Sean, in July 1651. You can read a full explanation on the Humanities desk. Clio the Muse 23:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll send you some of my winnings!!! SeanScotland 07:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, kind sir! Clio the Muse 22:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

wotcha clio

hi good lady, just a random note to see how you are doing, i see lewis has been kicked into touch, about time. There was something way creepy about his ranting, i've meet a few people like him in my line of work and it never ceases to amaze me the power of the human mind to just lose it completely. The idea face thru the ages, you are quite right most of the faces were v similar, but i have always felt that the true beauty is a face that does not fit (thats my excuse for my face, lol, although my daughter thinks her daddy is beautiful - bless 3 year olds everywhere)

that's t'mill whistle going, time to louse

take care good lady X Perry-mankster 15:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

P.S. do not know why but this [2] made me think of you =P X Perry-mankster 15:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ha, Ha, Ha! How did you ever guess?

Your daughter is right; for her you are beautiful, and you will always be beautiful. Speaking from my own experience, I know how strong the bond between fathers and daughters can be. You are in a unique position, Perry; never forget it. You are the first man in her life; and no matter what comes later, no-one can ever dislodge you. It is you that will set the standard by which all others will be judged. So, make sure it's a good one! (Not too high, though. Have some mercy on those poor future boyfriends!)

What can I say about Dr. Loomis (four degrees) other than he was, for me, a source of so much simple mirth!

Love to you and yours. From Albert, Dave, so on and so forth, and also from Clio the Muse 00:08, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah well, at dinner last night we were discussing her granny kitty, whom my daughter refers to as Cinderalla, and she is Snow White, i asked who her mother would be?, she replied that her mother was Sleeping Beauty, i enquired if that made me Prince Charming, and she replied no, i was 'mingin' - the language they attain at nursery is quite frighting - on the subject of future boyfriends, my daughter is to ask any prospective boyfriend "does your dad own a brewery?" - i do so enjoy a pint or ten X Perry-mankster 11:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I had to google 'mingin'. I don't believe it! Clio the Muse 22:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

And i don't believe you had to google 'mingin'! i'm pretty sure it's not a scots-centric term, don't people use the word 'mingin' at 'cambridge'? - (cambridge said in a stupid fake hoity -toity accent - what) love Perry-mankster 08:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I obviously move in the wrong social circles! (Said, of course, in my best BBC accent) Clio the Muse 22:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

"Gaudy tulips raised from dung"

The line I thought of when reading your comment about the inherent mendacity of a black-and-white approach to historical thinking and writing was actually, "Celia, Celia, Celia shits!". (I thought the title I used for this comment somewhat less provocative, given it is your Talk page, and not mine.) I could hear the whole of the USA gasping at the thought of anything less than the most gallant, brave, and respectful behaviour from their heroes. Except for a few, most of whom are very learned, the world does not want to know how very much alike we all are, winners and losers, saints and sinners. I laud your efforts to show us real people and real events, but first, you have to get us to turn off the TV. Bielle 00:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

'Tread softly because you tread on my...myths!' Hi, Bielle. You have my permission to be as frank and as provocative as you wish! To challenge popular perceptions of national heroes is indeed to walk on dangerous ground. I am fully aware of the deep emotional attachment American people have to that period in their history, where all the good was on one side and all the bad on the other. It is in the nature of my intellect to hope for a higher standard of truth and understanding, though, to be perfectly frank, I am far from optimistic. I place a high value on your appreciation and encouragement. But as far as getting people away from their TVs is concerned, that, I fear, is a labour that would even have defeated Heracles himself, to say nothing of poor little Clio the Muse 01:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I wish it were just one country and just one historical period. The problem is, I think, that it is almost all of us, almost all the time. Pick any conflict, anywhere, anytime and tell of the heroism on the side that lost (or the side in disfavour), or of the villainy on the side that won (or the side in favour) -and there is always much of both- and you will be villified. Bielle 02:00, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed so. I have to say, though, that in England the demolition of national myths and heroes had become something of a popular pastime, especially in the media. I saw a 'drama-documentary' recently on the sinking of the Lusitania in 1915, which all but suggested that Winston Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty, carried out the deed himself, merely setting-up the innocent and broken-hearted Germans! Clio the Muse 02:14, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

So, we go from one black-and-white view to its complete opposite -just as distorted, just as dangerous and just as, well, not to put too fine a point on it, bloody ignorant. (In Canada, we have the new version of national settlement where all the indigenous peoples were gullible innocents, and all the settlers butchers, liars and thieves.) There is no room in history for real people, just for two-dimensional characters. Apologies for the rant. I am only allowed one per day, otherwise they up my meds. Thanks for being polite about today's diatribe. Bielle 02:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely no need to apologise, Bielle. It was an enjoyable dialectic! Clio the Muse 05:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I won the bet!!!!

Thanks to you, Clio. Who are you really? I'm sorry to be so nosey but you know so much about Scotland that you must surely have some Gaelic blood? SeanScotland 12:28, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Sean, pure Anglo-Saxon; well, reasonably pure. One of my great-grandfathers served in the German Army during the First World War. Another was in the British Army. It's my good fortune, I suppose, that they never met in action! Anyway, it's nice to learn of your success. Clio the Muse 23:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's interesting!!! Do you know where your German g-gradfather saw service? SeanScotland 12:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I do not have an awful lot of information, just some vague outlines. He seems to have spent most of the war on the Eastern Front, and was only transferred to the west in 1918 for the Michael offensive, where he commanded a company of storm troopers. He later served with a Freikorps unit in the Baltic states and may have been involved in the 1920 Kapp Putsch (but, sssh! We don't talk about that!) Clio the Muse 22:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Those veteran soldiers transferred to the western front in 1918 after Russia ceased to be a military threat were a nightmare for the allies to deal with. Good thing my Great Uncle and a few other Americans arrived just in time. ;-) I eventually found a particular battle in the American Civil War where two ancestors were opposite each other in line of battle, and one was wounded, in a particularly fierce little action. Edison 20:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

It certainly was, and God Bless America! Anyway, I'm glad you do not hold our recent exchange of 'fire' against me, Edison. I do understand and appreciate your patriotism. I share the emotion, although I tend to express my feelings more in the English fashion, if you take my meaning. We are obviously both lucky, in that history allowed our respective ancestors to come close in combat, but never to meet! Clio the Muse 22:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

thanks dear lady

On the Ning Nang Nong Where the Cows go Bong! and the monkeys all say BOO! There's a Nong Nang Ning Where the trees go Ping! And the tea pots jibber jabber joo. On the Nong Ning Nang All the mice go Clang And you just can't catch 'em when they do! So its Ning Nang Nong Cows go Bong! Nong Nang Ning Trees go ping Nong Ning Nang The mice go Clang What a noisy place to belong is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong!!

my daughter's (and one of mine) current favourite poem, thank again dear lady you are a star X Perry-mankster 15:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC) and because you are such a star, here is a barn [3] love Perry-mankster 15:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, the man from Idaho! Thank you, sir. Clio the Muse 22:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

William Joyce

I know of three "books" by William Joyce, really just pamphlets, all of which are also available as reprints from several publishers (for example "Sons of Liberty" books):

• Dictatorship (circa 1937)
• National Socialism Now! (1937)
• Twilight over England: the Path to Democracy is the Road to Oblivion (1940)

I don't remember now which ones I have seen, possibly the first two. In any case I haven't read more of either than the first one or two pages, and perhaps a few more random pages. A sample of his early writing is online: Fascism and Jewry (1933).  --Lambiam^Talk 17:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Lambiam, calling; Lambiam, calling! My thanks. Clio the Muse 22:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Queen of the Night

I mau be the Princess but you are clearly the Queen! Princess of the night 09:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, dear Princess! Really I am just plain old Clio the Muse 22:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I Give In

OK, I give in, and have to accept that you are one person, not 20, but I took some convincing. I did my research, and caught you out for the following little trick:

"Andrey [=Ghirlandajo], I need your help. Please look at the Putin thread on the Humanities desk (3 June). What is it that Jack has written? Love Clio the Muse 13:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)"

Now I well remember the question, and the seamlessly erudite reply left me dazzled. Imagine my delight when I found this little gem. FINALLY, I have caught Clio the Muse out in some way!

This, however, is much better than the very serious charge of getting a bunch of academic historians to pose as a single user. Multiple people playing one character is like a form of inverse sock-puppetry, and most definitely cheating :). Other than that, I had formed a grand conspiracy theory, where you had travelled back in time, and stolen a secret crystal from Mount Parnassus which turned out to be the real source of the oracle's power. Unfortunately, you accidentally left the secret manuscript explaining time travel, and guardians of the oracle learned the technology, and chased you through to the present day, to retrieve the stolen relic. While ostensibly posing as friendly wikipedians, (eg. Lambiam and Jack of Oz), in reality, they were trying to track you down, and return their sacred treasure. Meanwhile you were using the crystal to gain insight into the world, and outwit them by posing as a British citizen (complete with knowledge supplied by the crystal), when in fact you were hiding in Siberia or something. The hole in the plot was that I had calculated the devastating forces unleashed by tapping the secrets of the crystal's power would cause the world to end at midnight on June 14, which date has now passed. So, all my theories have come to nothing, and Clio the Muse is just one person, with knowledge supplied by paper rather than ancient oracles. Most confusing!

Anyway, it is good to see you won't be leaving us, at least not just yet. If ever retire, give us plenty of warning first :-). Congratulations on your thesis, The Mad Echidna 18:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes; but you see, Echidna, We are the Borg. Thank you for your good wishes, and do keep in touch. Clio the Muse 22:31, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Happy Bloomsday

Happy Bloomsday, Clio; hope all is well with you. Deshil Holles Eamus! Antandrus (talk) 02:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, of course it is, Antandrus, and I hope you have a happy one, too. Clio the Muse 03:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Vanity Fair reply

Did you really mean escutcheon, or perhaps inescutcheon?  --Lambiam^Talk 22:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

In the original arms it was, I believe, the full escutcheon, though it is likely to have been sub-divided subsequently. Clio the Muse 22:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Bang!

Thank you for the GREAT reply to my cannon question, Clio the Muse. Are there any decent books that you could recommend on the Hundred Years' War that will give me some general guidance through the whole period? Bryson Bill 18:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)