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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Numskll (talk | contribs) at 20:34, 22 June 2007 (→Relevant to just a few people who coined the term). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Web 3.0

Since even the New York times refers to "Web 3.0" it may not be a bad idea to create a corresponding article (see NY Times article). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.163 (talk • contribs)

The article clearly states: But commercial interest in Web 3.0 — or the “semantic Web,” for the idea of adding meaning — is only now emerging. I think that the most appropriate action, if any, is to redirect this to Semantic Web. Mindmatrix 15:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the term has been used widely in fact. Do a Google search on it and you will see. Also see this link: http://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/web-30/ charting the history of the term. It would appear the wikipedia staff is revealing an editorial bias in not having a page about this term. You may not like the term, but to accurately reflect what people are talking about, it should be represented. In addition at the recent Web 2.0 conference in SF many companies gave presentations that used the term. I beleive that this should have a disambiguation page rather than an alias to the semantic web entry -- the disambiguation page should link to Web 2.0, Semantic Web, and whatever else you think ought to be there.

Come back when it meets WP:NEO. Artw 01:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The term "web 3.0" does exist, but since it has no meaning that I can glean apart from "semantic web", it should be a redirect. Why should web 3.0 be a dab page that links to web 2.0? Mindmatrix 16:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. So what exactly is the meaning of "Web 2.0" then? Can you define it? If there is a page for that term, which let's face it, is not exactly defined in anyone's mind, then why not Web 3.0? You can't have it both ways. Either these terms have meaning or they don't. If you ask 50 people to define Web 2.0 you will get 50 different definitions. The question should not therefore be do you, or I, or anyone know the definition -- the question should be is this a term that is widely used? And the answer is, yes. A google search on "web 3.0" (with quotes) returns 611,000 results as of today. The Markoff NYT article of Sunday, which sought to define the term as indicated a more intelligent web using a variety of technologies (not necessarily synonymous with the semantic web), is among the most widely discussed and cited topics in the Web community right now. In the blogosphere alone nearly every major blogger has chimed in on this. Some agree, some don't. That's not up to us to decide. The wikipedia is supposed to mirror the world, not editorialize it. You may not think the term deserves its own page, but 611,000 pages in Google say otherwise. A page about the topic is warranted, but if you can't swallow that, a dab page that links to web 2.0, the semantic web, artificial intelligence, RDF, SPARQL, and other relevant terms could be a vaible measure until the community defines it further.

That argument was raised and discounted in the deletion debate. Artw 22:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


You guys should read the Web 2.0 definition in the wikipedia. If you believe THAT counts as a definition, then I see no reason why Web 3.0 does not. I would suggest, along the same lines as that defnition this page should say: "Web 3.0, a phrase coined by John Markoff of the New York Times in 2006, refers to a supposed third generation of Internet-based services -- such as sites that utilize the semantic web, natural language search, microformats, data mining, group recommendations, and artificial intelligence -- that emphasize language understanding, structured data, learning, inferencing and intelligent automation in order to facilitate greater productivity for users.

Web 3.0 is not synonymous with "semantic web" -- it groups together a number of concepts that are forming into a new generation of technology on the Web. The Semantic Web is just one of the covered concepts, but there are others -- artificial intelligence, data mining, microformats, etc.

The Web 2.0 has it's own problems, not least an over-emphasis on O'Reily, but it's existance is justified by thre popularity of the term and the broad concensus over it's core meaning (though it certainly gets a lot fuzzier at the edges). No such concensus exists for "Web 3.0". Artw 23:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What proof do you have of the "broad concensus" around the term "Web 2.0?" Ask several people to define it and I guarantee you there will be no consensus in their answers. Web 2.0 is a marketing hype term that has no clearly defined edges at all. It is basically "whatever new stuff happened on the Web from 2004 - 2006." That's not exactly clearly defined. I'm all for having standards of definition -- but I also want to see consistency in how those standards are applied. The only evidence of any consensus around the term "Web 2.0" is from doing a google search and that fact that O'Reilly runs a conference of that name. But what about all the Google results for "Web 3.0" and Markoff's article, and the fact that numerous companies who presented at the Web 2.0 conference actually used the term "Web 3.0" in their presentations as a label for what they were enabling? You can't have it both ways. Delete the Web 2.0 page as well, or add one for Web 3.0. To do otherwise would be inconsistent in applying your own standards. Either their is clear consensus or there is not. Have you personally read any of the 611,000 pages on google about "Web 3.0?" Perhaps you should. If the New York Times plus 611,000 pages isn't enough to convince you that there is a term of value here, then what will? At what point do you decide there is consensus? When O'Reilly blesses the term? Is that what it takes to convince you? That seems pretty biased to me. Look at the proposed definition above -- it's exactly the same pattern as the Web 2.0 definition, but substitute John Markoff for Tim O'Reilly and substitute semantic and intelligent apps for the social and collaborative apps of Web 2.0. Seems pretty clear cut to me. At least you might want to do a google search for, in quotes, "Web 3.0" and perhaps also do the same on technorati. You might be surprised -- there is more consensus around the term than you might think.

If you want to nominate Web2.0 for deletion please go right ahead. Artw 23:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Hey take a look at this! A leading panel on the next wave of the Web, including Jerry Yang and other luminaries -- all talking about "Web 3.0" -- hmmm... more proof that this meme is real and deserves it's own page in the Wikipedia... http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=3959

Eh? He's talking about it as if it;s some kind of video thing, then adds "Everyone brings their own perspective, bias to putting a frame around Web X.X.". It's really not that clever or interesting that people are adding 1 to web 2.0 and coming up with "web 3.0". When there is an actually meaning to the term that significant numbers of people agree upon it'll be possible to put up an article that will meet WP:NEO and not immediately be deleted. Artw 21:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the page has been deleted 5 times and restored once by admins indicates that "web 3.0 " does conform to the WP:NEO specifications. I searched for this word in the first place because Amazon Mechanical Turk had a HIT created by Amazon Requester Inc. specifically asking "What are the top 3 top characteristics you predict will be part of web 3.0?"
Although "web 3.0" does not have a concrete definition yet, it is a term that is gaining popularity. Not having a page for it might constitute blatant omission. My opinion is to let the page run its course...Wikipedians will be able to address the problems associated with the ambiguous definition and find the appropriate sources.
Here is a Google Trends snap shot of web 3.0 vs. web 2.0 searches. As you can see, the number are about the same in 2005, until 2006, where the number of web 2.0 searches skyrocketed. However, web 3.0 still have relatively large number of searches. Jumping cheese Cont@ct 10:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I believe that this Wikipedia article should be undeleted. Although people disagree about what 'Web 3.0' should actually be, there seems to be a broad consensus that 'Web 3.0' is the next generation of the web after Web 2.0. A specific discussion of these visions with appropriate sources would meet WP:NEO and would not qualify for immediately deletion. Further, there is significant interest in what 'Web 3.0' is to warrant an entry. pierrerosen 17:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the undelete and source referenced discussion motion. The Google Trends chart for December 2006 is in, and the search activity for Web 3.0 has nearly doubled. There's also a noticeable drop off in web 2.0 activity, although it still dwarfs the former at this time. I'm sure the January results will be much more interesting as there's seems to be commotion in development communities to capitalize on the rising popularity of this term. MOAIASP 04:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was disappointed to see a locked page on this topic. I came to my favourite reference, the Wikipedia, to find out what this Web 3.0 talk was about and found this locked page. I notice that there's a funding drive going on, and I usually donate, but I think I'll withold parting with any of my cash until this topic gets unlocked. Ron 13:33, December 26 2006 (GCT)

Hehehe, bribing Wikipedia into unlocking the page! just kidding =D Jumping cheese Cont@ct 01:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How does one describe the increasing disappointing behaviour of wikipedia admins? By pointing to this article.

My opinion

As a computer scientist, I'm quite surprised to see this article deleted and even protected from re-creation. Web 3.0 is currently topical: aside what all newspapers of international fame say about that, it is a phenomenon fully in development (try to write "Web 3.0" on Google...) and it is also the subject of a homonymous meeting in Paris whose coverage was also featured here in Italy by La Repubblica, second-highest newspaper in the country in numbers of paid-for copies. See also http://www.leweb3.com/ for more info about the meeting. There's so much to write about it. --Angelo 02:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As one person who recently created this article (to have it restored then deleted again), I agree with you. With people like Tim Berners-Lee using the term, I think it is well worth an article. Semantic web is one evolutionary construct for the Internet, but Web 3.0 is now being used more to describe technology standards and directions. Given that there are now many references to Web 3.0, I have been surprised that quite a few Wikipedians opposed the existence of the article - which had no shortage of editors or interest. The last version of the deleted article is preserved in my namespace here. The history and information about the evolution of the term (and the Internet) will obviously have to occur outside Wikipedia until there is a change in attitude by those who oppose it. There is little information on this topic in the Internet article which is historical and current, but not forward looking. Peter Campbell 00:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
PS: 1,170,000 Google hits for "Web 3.0" as of today versus about 15 Wikpedians saying "no" Peter Campbell 00:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But do you know what is the really strange thing? It's that we have on Wikipedia an article about World War IV (I said WW IV, not WW III). As I think WW IV is notable to stay here (it was mentioned by Einstein too), the same should be for Web 3.0. --Angelo 22:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Google results hit 1,700,000 yesterday but have since declined to a mere 1,570,000. That's almost half a million new indexed page in less than half a month. MOAIASP 04:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion this term is intentionally CENSORED to promote Wikipedia's own corporate/political agenda, aka Wikiasari. The London Times states that "Founder of Wikipedia plans search engine to rival Google" their sponsor Amazon (also a publisher of multiple Web 3.0 articles and books) has put up big money for this next generation search engine that promotes higher relevance in ways reminiscent of many of the published Web 3.0 concepts stemming back to 2005. To get a better idea of what I'm talking about check out the newest of many New York Times articles on Web 3.0 "Entrepreneurs See a Web Guided by Common Sense". Wikia, Inc. is simply trying to plug their free-for-all community model in place of (relatively) unbiased AI as discussed at the Web 3.0 Conference Paris.. meanwhile totally ignoring, REDACTING, and/or outright censoring any view point to the contrary with such unveraciousness that they outright deny the existence of Web 3.0 or any attempts to define it by salting this page. But at this point the powers that be would consider this point WP:CONJECTURE until it's reported by the press verbatim. --MOAIASP 172.170.100.51 03:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 3.0 Survives the Wrath of Wikipedians | InformationWeek, NY - Mar 15, 2007 | "Up until last month, Web 3.0's future was in doubt. Wikipedians were divided about the legitimacy of the concept and those skeptical of the term deleted the ..." 74.97.109.162 17:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... I seem to remember avoiding Wikipedia "shaping" the term being one of the arguments for it's WP:NEO deletion. Artw 23:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 3.0 as an "Executable" Web Abstraction Layer

It seems to me that the term is suffering from a low signal to noise ratio on WP, the synonymous association of Semantic Web is obscuring the actual definition. In essence Semantic Web may be a developing segment of Web 3.0 technology but it is not the definitive embodiment.

I'm currently employed at a self proclaimed Web 3.0 / IT start-up based out of Toronto, Canada and the commonly accepted workplace definition is relatively simple when presented in context.


Web 1.0 : the "readable" phase of the world wide web, denoted by static flat data presentation. i.e. HTML, XML, etc.

Web 2.0 : the "writable" phase, denoted by interactive dynamic data and client-server synchronization. i.e. PHP/JS, AJAX, etc.

Web 3.0 : the "executable" phase, denoted by dynamic web applications and composite interactive services. i.e. Online Operating Systems, SaaS, etc.

Web 3.0 may also include integration, such as Google AdSense. Web hosts are wary of people using scripts on their servers. That is why many free web hosts only allow HTML and media. The web may look like a regular windowed program that runs on a server, such as Firefox and XUL. -frank—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.61.51.194 (talk) 04:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I don't see what all the fuss is about, this progression is logical (not neological) and I'm sure I've seen more than a few note worthy mainstream sources and conference mentions. Much like the early days of Web 2.0, examples of next generation architecture are already apparent in many web services and advanced "AJAX-ified" applications.

-Burns 18:00, 06 January 2007 (UTC)

Although I doubt it's the first mention, this idea/model can be attributed to the Business Week (Oct 2006) article on Web 3.0 and the subsequent online discussion by Andy Carvin in regards to a parallel in Tim Berners-Lee's notion of the read-write web. --MOAIASP 172.170.100.51 03:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here is another Business article citing definitions for Web 3.0, and stating that it includes but is greater than the semantic web.
Michael Hickins, Can 'Spiritual Computing' Drive Web 3.0?, Internetnews.com, July 28, 2006
--Peter Campbell 13:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restore and Unblock Web 3.0

Unblock and Restore What is the processs to get this done? This topic is notable and should be included. I pointed a friend here to get details on Web 3.0 and didn't believe him when he said it was deleted and blocked. This is a a real and notable concept. It is suitably defined in this talk page and the now deleted article. What gives? I find it odd indeed that some group of editors are so against its inclusion. Tim Berners Lee weighs in "People keep asking what Web 3.0 is. I think maybe when you've got an overlay of scalable vector graphics - everything rippling and folding and looking misty - on Web 2.0 and access to a semantic Web integrated across a huge space of data, you'll have access to an unbelievable data resource" [1]. A bit poetic perhaps but it certainly jibes with Web 3.0 as presented here . . . Numskll 21:38, 19 ebruary 2007 (UTC)

Here are recent articles that discuss and define Web 3.0:
Is there an alternative wiki to Wikipedia where this article could live and grow? Peter Campbell 04:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you can request an account at Citizendium and start the page. But that's like giving up. Petition an admin with a strong case and there's a good chance that the page will be restored. =) Jumping cheese Cont@ct 07:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I'm primarily interested in improving Wikipedia in this regard not promoting or explaining web 3.0 outside of the context of wikipedia. Numskll 17:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You can discuss now the restore of this article on here. --Angelo 01:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You guys can vote there then. Kudos to numskull for starting the deletion review. =D Jumping cheese Cont@ct 03:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dp any of you folks have an idea of how long the undelete process takes? It seems the great majority of respondants to the discussion think it should be undeleted. Numskll 15:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion is still active, and will be until tomorrow. --Angelo 15:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I didn't necessarily mean to assume the results I was wondering about the process and time-line. Numskll 17:09, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 3.0 The First Rational Definition I've Seen

Hi, I've been following this debate. If you haven't read what this person is writing about how to define Web 3.0 I would suggest that you take a look at this article:

Maybe this will help to clarify this debate. You also might want to check technorati -- there are a lot of articles coming out about Web 3.0. Not sure why the wikipedia doesn't have a node about this but it seems really odd to me given the large amount of discussion of this topic in the press and blogosphere.

I don't exactly buy into Spivacks "timeline" but the current entry on Spivacks proposal did point out the interesting correlation between Web "version" and chronological progression. By this measure we're currently at Web 2.7 , or perhaps Web 2.73 if you wanted to narrow it down a little more. This version scheme seems like a relatively agreeable progress estimate that could potentially meet public consensus. The calculation would be +.1 version increment per year at a rate of .083 pre month starting at release version 1.0 in 1990. This allows for concise labeling of the entire organization without the pitfalls of defining and evaluating each and every technology, concept or sub-component.

74.97.109.162 02:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My god, this is horrendous. There is simply no need to "checkpoint" the Web at such completely arbitrary points. Noone here has the authority to put a version number on the Web. What's more, there's absolutely NOTHING to be gained from doing so. --Beachy 09:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restore & Unblock

As someone who actually contributed to the Web 2.0 article I think it is inappropriate for Web 3.0 to be blocked. Here's why (IMHO):

There are many dimensions of Web Interaction that come into general crystallization (mind-share wise) over time. In the beginning we had the Web of Hypertext Documents (Web 1.0) this dimension of interaction was driven by HTML pages that intermingled Formatting, Logic, and Data. Naturally, as Web usage increased, the obvious need to distill the monolithic pages into constituent parts ushered in the rise of XML. Remember, from XML came content syndication via Web Services (XML-RPC, then SOAP, and then REST variants) which ushered in the blogosphere and all the hoopla associated with the Second Dimension of Web Interaction (Web 2.0).

We are now at another critical juncture where the Web Interaction Dimension focuses on the Data (rather than Presentation or Application Logic / Web Services) aspect of the Web.

Another way of looking at all of this is to use the M-V-C pattern: V - Hypertext Web (Browser Driven Interactive Web) C - Services Web (APIs and Web Services Driven Web) M - Data Web (Open Data Access Driven Web)

Web 2.0 is but one part of an innovation continuum. The same applies to Web 3.0, just another part of the innovation Continuum. To halt at Web 2.0 is bad and futile. Ironically, it also feeds into the very element that those who resist Web 3.0 are trying to fight against (hype over substance).

Web 2.0, which is still a partial definition at best re. the Wikipedia document, cannot exist while Web 3.0 is rejected.

Finally, Web 3.0 is critical piece of the Semantic Web technology stack. But do not confuse this with the Semantic Web as whole. I tend to refer to this as Layer 1 of the Semantic Web.

What happens next? I would like to urge a vote on this matter sooner rather than later.

Kingsley_Idehen 00:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC) .[reply]

You can discuss restoring the article here. Have your say --Peter Campbell 01:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
can we still see the discussion. i want to copy the various sources here so that we can use them to improve the article?Numskll 18:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do people use the term Web 3.0? Then it deserves a Wikipedia page

To me it seems ludicrous to maintain a Web 2.0 entry, but no Web 3.0. It's quite obvious (to me) that people are using the term Web 3.0 as the the next generation of web technologies, including but perhaps not limited to Semantic Web tech. I'm not going to try and define it myself, Spivack and others are much more apt for that.

It's hard to see many 'Web technologies' as a holistic system, and even harder to define it and give it versioning numbers. But people are using the term and that by itself should justify a Wikipedia entry. At least we would then have a page where it says

"Web 3.0 is hard to define because people are referring to the integration of various web-related technologies, however ...."

If anything, a Wikipedia page can help define it as best as possible. I strongly urge the unblocking of the page. ---hthth 01:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can discuss restoring the article here. Have your say --Peter Campbell 01:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant to just a few people who coined the term

Web 3.0, is just like it's predecessor, a totally pointless term which means nothing, says nothing, and recycles old ideas like ontologies, meta information in non-meta pages and other semantic concepts that have been around for a decade in theoretical situations like multi agent systems. Certain companies coined the term so that they can claim to be "web 3.0" leaders and therefore join the next bandwagon which has resulted in the total lack of innovation and stupidity on the web today. Anyone and their dog is making a web 2.0 site with tags and other techniques that the average person doesn't understand. It's about the average person - they don't even get web 2.0, so what is 3.0 supposed to mean? Oh and by the way, what exactly happened to the features of web 2.4, 2.7. 2.9, etc.?! When you think of it in this light, you realise how totally ridiculous this notion of versioning actually is. It's a superficial "versioning" system invented by developers (the pioneers like FlickR did NOT coin web 2.0) - which people who don't make websites are baffled about. The world cannot grow into a more pointless, geek-led band of nonsense. The future of the internet is human and real (social networks are just the beginning), and web 3.0 is meaningless, with no place in the future. It is nothing less than an elaborate kind of microformat on a page. Bury this idea forever. Web X.Y is tired, sick and just dull. 62.64.195.127 09:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

but how do you really feel? none the less the concept is notable if worthy of your scorn. Numskll 15:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The concept is NOT AT ALL notable. Yes, the Web is lovely, and there are lots of great new XML flavours and different trendy web design techniques these days. That does NOT mean we need to arbitrarily slap some version number on it. If proponents of "Web 2.0," "Web 3.0" etc understood software development you would feel very dismayed at how we're abusing the concept of versioning here --Beachy 09:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Right. Web X.X is NOT part of a FORMAL versioning system as is seen in a TYPICAL software development cycle and the term was COINED to play off familar versioning. So what? It is STILL getting circulated. It's meaning is FIRMING up and people in the industry are using it AND working towards it.[2] When I sprinkled words in ALL CAPS into this reply does it seem more compelling to you? The web is sofware AND people Numskll 20:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Like it or Not The Term is Here To Stay -- And Getting More Widely Used -- That's a Simple Fact

Regardless of the above writer's obvious personal issues with the term, Web 3.0 is a huge term in the media and is being widely used in the web industry as well. Just because YOU don't like it and wouldn't use it, doesn't mean it has no value or usage for other people. The point of the Wikipedia is to reflect consensus reality, not just YOURS. Is this an encyclopedia or not? For example, you may not agree with the "Flat Earth" hypothesis, but lo and behold, it it has a node in the pedia. You may not agree with the idea of Web 2.0, but it also has a node in the pedia. If you want to eliminate ALL concepts you don't agree with, start your own encyclopedia -- or at least be consistent and remove all terms that are not *perfectly* defined from the wikipedia (of which there are at least hundreds of thousands of nodes...). What bothers me about this is not your opinion about the terminology but rather the fact that it is subjective and has no place in an encyclopedia. The FACTS speak for themselves. The FACTS are that the term is widely used. That's all that matters. Give it a node that says as much and points to various definitions. It can even cite dissent. The point is to document the culture. Censorship also documents the culture of course but only YOUR personal biased view of culture. That's not what the Wikipedia is for though.

A "huge term?" What "media" and "web industry" are you talking about? Or are you just cracking a joke here? These neologisms (WP:NEO violations) are not encyclopaedic. They should be removed from wikipedia --Beachy 09:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite to address issues raised in talk

Apparently there is enough material out there now that the article passes WP:NEO. I'm somewhat skeptical of that, but if it is then the article should be rewritten to reflect that. As the article stands right now it's a deletion candidate. Artw 19:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article just passed the undelete review a couple of hours ago. You should allow a reasonable time to improve it based upon that consensus. Nominate it for deletion if you like, but my sense is that it will not be subject to deletion for the same reasons it was undeleted. However it is your call . . .Numskll 20:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Artw, I agree with Nubskll. If the article is nominated for deletion one day after it is restored I think this would be very poor form and quite inappropriate. I think the focus should be on collaboration and getting the content right (encyclopaedic) rather than just deleting articles that are widely supported - as evidenced by the restoration debate. The choice is of course yours --Peter Campbell 22:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear I'm not really intending noming the article any time soon, just pointing out that as it stands it could very well be nominated. Let's see if this support actuyally translates into writing a decent article. Artw 22:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now that the page is restored, all the arguments that were used to get it undeleted should be incorporated into the page. Jumping cheese Cont@ct 10:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have added some of the external links mentioned in the discussion. Some or all of these can be used to reference further material added. Peter Campbell 12:49, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 3.0 Article Outline

Now that we have an opportunity to create a Web 3.0 article, let's please take the opportunity to build a model document. Here is a simple outline:

1. What is Web 3.0?

2. Origins of Term (there are critical Blogosphere items re. this matter, let's do proper research so that we don't fall foul of jingoism and nepotism (a major problem I encountered when working on the Web 2.0 article).

3. Why is it Important? The most important part of this article.

4. How Does it relate to Web 2.0 and the original Hypertext Web (Web 1.0)

5. How does one know they have entered this realm (with examples and not fluffy ambiguity, please!) Kingsley_Idehen 17:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. I would add:
6. Differences between Web 3.0 and Semantic web
7. A roadmap section (could incorporate points 4 and 6)

--Peter Campbell 22:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Topics to Cover

The Data-Web is an important first step in the Web 3.0 timeline. This should be covered in some depth in this article. It may also qualify for it's own node. As such the Web 3.0 page could function as a landing page that discusses a set of interwoven trends. RDF, SPARQL and probably microformats should be detailed here. In addition perhaps other related technologies should be discussed.

OWL and ontologies needs to be described. In addition, a reference to the subject of publishing axioms, using SWRL or other rules languages, probably merits a mention.

There should probably be a note about natural language search and/vs. semantic search -- another major topic and trend in this area.

Citations need to be provided, and quotes need to be relevant

The Tim Berners-Lee quote from the New York Time that mentioned Web 3.0 has been removed and replaced by a very lengthy quote that discusses Semantic web at length but doesn't mention Web 3.0. Why? The original quote is relevant so it should be replaced. The Semantic web content belongs to its specific article, not this one.

Also, new content is being added which is speculative and unsourced. Could editors please ensure all content is sourced or the article will slip towards a meaningless collection of rants and speculation. Sounds a bit tough, but several have worked hard to get this article reinstated. It would be a pity to see it turn to custard. Peter Campbell 22:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Berners-Lee quote on Semantic Web

I have removed the content below for the article as I think it better placed in the Semantic web article rather than this one.

Tim Berners-Lee stated[1]:


Opinions please . . .

The page can still mention something about it I guess. I frankly don't know. =( Jumping cheese Cont@ct 06:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The page is about the Web 3.0, the Web as a bona fide Database is the crux of the matter here. TimBL's testimony excerpt highlights the very elements of this article: Data Access and Data Integration. Of course we could narrow down the paragraph count, but this item is far more relevant than the current quote which provides no clarity to Web 3.0 (imho). Kingsley_Idehen 14:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The data access and integration (web database) definition is one of several, and is not necessarily the primary one. Quotes and references that don't specifically mention Web 3.0 are open to speculation, interpetation and opinions about the relationship to Web 3.0, none of which is encyclopaedic content Peter Campbell 01:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Create Web 3.0 category

Category:Web 2.0 is extensively used. I have added it to the Web 3.0 article. I think Category:Web 3.0 should be recreated, intially for this article, but also for related technologies. Any objections? --Peter Campbell 00:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems a bit pre-emptive, seeing as theres no consensus over what those technologies actually are. Artw 00:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think so either. Just let's wait for a while before doing that move, we need the Web 3.0 technologies to be well-defined first. --Angelo 02:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OK, let's hold off on this for now, given the state of flux. Peter Campbell 04:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd vote for recreation as it would promote clustering of related concepts. On the other hand, the previous category deletion debates and shared views of the right support Artw's "preemptive" statement. Given that the current motion is to postpone category creation until there is a consensus of definition, could it be clarified whether the objective is an internal wiki consensus (in relation to the article) or a general external consensus (i.e. search result, published media, etc)? 74.97.109.162 01:38, 9 March 2007 (EST)
I'd say a wiki-concensus that a general external consensus exists would be required. Artw 23:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

International Consortium for Web 3.0

I'm removing the external link added by 20.7.100.200 on 15:32, 5 March because the site is not related to the topic other than as a 'mislabeled' namesake. The site implies some type of unsubstantiated authority and is misleading at best.

"BHTMLWT, or Basically Hyper Text Mark-up Language Without Tags is the official mark-up language of Web 3.0. "

I can't tell whether the site is a satire, intentional misinformation or if the author actually believes their own claims, although a review of the limited content on the site and common sense leads me to believe something is basically amiss. 74.97.109.162 02:06, 9 March 2007 (EST)

Here's another gem from the "Chairman of the ICW3":

"The Web 3.0 standard strives to make the Internet text only and non-interactive - the way it should be. The result is faster Internet access for all."

You got to admit that's funny stuff.. .txt for all! (Apologies in advanced for wasting valuable discussion space.) 74.97.109.162 02:30, 9 March 2007 (EST)

It looks suspect to me too. I think the article is better off without the link. Peter Campbell 07:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 4.0

Web 4.0 - "a dynamic, mutating mashup of time and dimensions both web-based and otherwise, creating an eternally minable data model of the world past, present and future. Evolving beyond the cognitive ability of mankind into an uncontrollable spasmic orgy of over-communication " -- that definition is MINE, baby! Be sure to quote me on the upcoming Web 4.0 article. Blog about it! Spread the word! A new era is coming! Web 3.0 is dead! --Beachy 00:13, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Web 5.0

Web 4.0? Phooey! I'm holding out for Web 5.0, and I refuse to get involved in all this outdated Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 stuff until it's ready for me. Gear up for it now! I have my Spandex leotard and the goggles already. --Nigelj 19:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be Web Pentium no doubt. | O'Reilly Radar > The Future of Web 2.0 | 74.97.109.162 17:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed this link from the article as it contains no reference to Web 3.0: :Cognitive Agent that Learns and Organizes (CALO), SRI & DARPA --Peter Campbell 12:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References (specific to this talk-page discussion)

  1. ^ Daniel J. Weitzner (CSAIL) (2007-03-01). "Future of the Web". estimony before Before the United States House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce. Retrieved 2006-05-24. {{cite web}}: line feed character in |work= at position 66 (help)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nigelj (talk • contribs) 19:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Spivack vs. WP:Verify

The following content (out of context) has just been removed by User:Beachy in 3 edits:

In mid 2006, Web 3.0 was linked to the Semantic web and AI, in another blog article which stated that human activity in Wikipedia could result in the realization of the Semantic web model that could surpass Google as an "intelligent answer machine" using a large set of ontologies.<ref name=Fawzi1>Marc Fawzi [http://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2006/06/26/wikipedia-30-the-end-of-google/ Wikipedia 3.0: The End of Google?],''Evolvingtrends Blog'', June 26, 2006</ref>

The term Web 3.0 became a subject of increased interest and debate from late 2006 extending into 2007.

Nova Spivack has proposed that a more objective way to define Web 3.0 might be as "the third decade of the Web, from 2010 to 2020". Spivack suggests that Web 2.0 has largely been focused on front-end user-interface improvements such as AJAX, while Web 3.0 will shift the focus back to the backend - the underlying technologies of the Web, enabled by Semantic Web technologies. In Spivack's view, Web 3.0 will begin by transforming the Web into a database -- what some call the Data-Web using RDF and SPARQL. The next step after that will be the addition of richer semantics to the Data-Web, using OWL ontologies. This process will continue from the present day through the next decade. By 2020, Spivack predicts the Semantic Web will be globally integrated into the Web, opening the door for the fourth decade of the Web, Web 4.0 (the years 2020 to 2030), in which the focus will shift back to the front-end again, with a new generation of more intelligent applications and services that interact with users, assist them, and help them to use the Web more productively.<ref>Nova Spivack [http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2007/02/steps_towards_a.html How the WebOS Evolves?], February 09, 2007</ref><ref>Nova Spivack [http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2007/02/steps_towards_a.html A Definition and Timeline of Web 3.0], ''Blog'', February 09, 2007</ref>

<ref>Nova Spivack [http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0689.html?m%3D3 The Third-Generation Web is Coming], ''KurzweilAI.net'', December 17, 2006</ref>

I think that this content is valid as citations were provided, and the blog references remain. Several other blog postings remain. I think these preemptive edits have comprised the content and integrity of the article. Could other editors please indicate whether they support or oppose this content being included? I have reverted the edits pending the outcome of this discussion so that editors can review the context. Peter Campbell 12:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for not simply reverting my edits. I'm not going to through the wikipedia rulebook around here but I just want to remind you all that non-affiliated personal blogs do not infer authority to content in wikipedia. The "editorial" above is unsubstantiated and whilst interesting, is not encylopaedic content. --Beachy 12:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hold on a minute, you DID revert the edits.. Right. Let's get to the crux of this argument before we waste too much time. Take a look at WP:VERIFY: "Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources." See also WP:EL Links to be avoided #11: "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." I think that's a pretty black-and-white wikipedia policy. --Beachy 12:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed this content as per wikipedia policy. --Beachy 15:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to prefer an edit war rather than waiting for the outcome of community discussion on this. Please review WP:CIVIL and take this into account prior to further preemptive removal of content, and with respect to some of your recent contributions to this article talk page. Also note that you are making it more difficult for editors to assess the content in question. Peter Campbell 23:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need for an edit war on this. At present the content is clearly non-encyclopaedic because it fails both WP:EL and WP:VERIFY. Please consult both these pages and hopefully you will understand why the content has to go. Oh, and there's no need to take the edit personally. We're all working to make the best possible wikipedia. --Beachy 09:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spivak is a notable memetics expert and has been featured in the press and published media regarding memes, semantics and the semantic web for several years. I think the chunky paragraph above is a little heavy to digest based soley on wording. The Spivak info presented in the unsorted list in the following section has a better flow. The prior version detracted from the clarity of the roadmap section and would be better off in the debate section. ROT26 Decoder Ring 12:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If Spivak is notable and has been featured in the press, then we should cite what he has said on record, rather than attributing content to what he's written in his personal blog. --Beachy 12:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This link that you removed <ref>Nova Spivack [http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0689.html?m%3D3 The Third-Generation Web is Coming], ''KurzweilAI.net'', December 17, 2006</ref> is to a journal website, not a blog, so it definately meets the required criteria. I will reinstate it with the appropriate text. Peter Campbell 12:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, fully agree with your recent set of edits .. no warfare from me! --Beachy 14:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think Spivack saw Beachy coming, following references recently posted on MindingThePlanet.Net
Coming Soon: The Semantic Web. By Sebastian Rupley. PC Magazine - December 2006
The Third Wave. By Mark Henricks. Entrepreneur Magazine - April 2007
ROT26 Decoder Ring 14:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the major issue would be Spivak's flagrant protologisms (WP:NEO). Predictions of technology that may or may not exist several decades from now are out of place and the use of futurstic dates to "bring something into context" within this article should be used with extreme caution given the guidelines. ROT26 Decoder Ring 09:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this should be reinstated with reference to the KurzweilAI.net article. I'm not sure there is really that much of a distinction between online publications and weblogs anymore, therefore I think Spivack's blog is valid as a source. But anyway, the KurzweilAI.net version of the article is certainly legitimate enough. Spivack's definition of Web 3.0 as the third decade of the Web is an important distinction, and should be noted, considering he actually helped to define the term in the first place and is among the most cited authorities on it in the press currently.
So when my blog entry is referred to in a journal I can make up "Web 4.0" and publish my ramblings on wikipedia? I haven't come up with a definition of "Web 4.0" yet but hell, I can bullshit like the best of them! :-) --Beachy 08:51, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Carl Marx and Web 3.0

Content Origin and Web Version

  • Web 1.0 = sites supply their own content = site profits
  • Web 2.0 = users supply content = alienation / exploitation = site profits
  • Web 3.0 = users supply content = profit sharing = mutualism / symbiosis

Is youtube's profit sharing plan a characteristic of Web 2.0 or Web 3.0?

I'm just wondering if I can label my online art community as web 3.0 now that our members can display google adsense on their pages and receive 100% of their ad revenue. Epiphyte 12:03, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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