Talk:LeTourneau University/Archive 1

Archive 1

Regular Contributors

Any IP's ringing from Australia are obviously me, Shem Daimwood, for the record. I'm notorious on Wikipedia for forgetting to log in when editing. You and all the Australian Wikipedians can sue me. 203.214.145.43 13:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Protestant," "Evangelical," etc.

For now, I've linked the LeTourneau article to Evangelicalism instead of Protestantism. Objections or suggestions? 203.214.145.43 13:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I would be inclined to accept the categorization of LeTourneau University as an Evangelical university, rather than a Protestant university. My reasons are:

1) Many of the students at L.U. are the children of evangelical or fundamentalist missionaries. I was told that children of full-time Christian workers get scholarships at LeTourneau University, so the families have that extra motivation to send their children to the school; besides, several missionaries graduated from L.U. Indeed, the man who first informed me of LeTourneau University is a missionary graduate of the school, and one of his sons became a student soon after I was kicked out.

2) Most of the professors and staff of LeTourneau University are Evangelicals. Several of the Engineering Professors are members of Missionary Alliance churches.

3) My impression--unscientific as it is--of the population at LeTourneau University was that few came from outside Evangelical circles. I knew a few who were Orthodox Presbyterian (OPC), which I would consider Protestant, not Evangelical. I knew one Moslem man.

4) The founder of LeTourneau University, R.G. LeTourneau, was a member of the Missionary Alliance church on High Street (I think its name is Pinewood Missionary Alliance), clearly an Evangelical Church.

5) Most of the guest speakers or performers at LeTourneau University chapel services are Evangelicals. That even includes the Contemporary Christian Music that plays in the background before and after the chapel services. Pooua 21:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I vaguely recall that Liberty University is a sister college of LeTourneau University. I would need to do more research before putting that in the article.

How did the relationship with Ambassador College work out? When I was a student, 1995-96, L.U. Administration outraged some students by inviting representatives of nearby Ambassador College; several denounced the Worldwide Church of God as a cult. I read that WCG had their Ambassador College campus for sale a few years ago. The Worldwide Church of God has been shifting to mainstream Evangelicism ever since its founder, Herbert W. Armstrong, died in 1986.

Pooua 23:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

If anyone has any photographs of stuff like the Bell Tower, MSC-1, the Spirit of Ingenuity, or anything like that, it would be awesome if they could put them up. Vengeful Cynic 01:05, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have numerous photos of the campus, but have never quite figured out how to upload photos to the Wikipedia. Maybe I'll just link to my flickr photos. --Eliot 03:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, so I figured it out. Want any more photos? (I added some to R.G.'s page too.) --Eliot 03:51, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Fraternities/Societies

While there are technically no "fraternities" as such at LeTourneau, the societies are almost identical, from their initiation rituals to society secrets to greek-letter names. The difference is minute, while important to some LeTourneau students. In short, calling them fraternities, while marginally incorrect, provides a degree of information not conferred by the "society" nomer. If anyone takes issue with that, please state your case here before reverting back. --Vengeful Cynic 15:35, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

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I agree with your assessment Cynic. Fraternity can have a negative connotation to some, but for all intents and purposes, that is what the societies are. It goes better with the article since it's an open encyclopedia, not an LU-specific publication. Mitler 03:39, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Evangelical Outreach at L.U.

The article states, "While Longview is home to a variety of neighborhoods, both in age and economic circumstance, LeTourneau is immediately surrounded by lower income neighborhoods, which provide mostly Caucasian students with ministry opportunities to be engaged with its mixture of African-American and Hispanic neighbors." That is a delicate way to describe the neighborhood in which L.U. is located (and I lived in that neighborhood for 5 years, so I should know), but there is something sickeningly elitist about its wording. Not that elitist would be misleading, necessarily, but the fact is, the neighborhood outreach isn't what someone might imagine based on that sentence. I escaped from Longview in 1999, so maybe there have been some changes, but the last that I saw, L.U.'s neighborhood outreach consisted mostly of a few Summer camps that some of the neighborhood children might or might not attend. I guess it remains technically true that there are opportunities for outreach, though.

The reality is, South Longview is an economically-disadvantaged, blue-collar neighborhood with a fairly high crime rate. Minority population was projected to grow significantly when I lived there; one of the church's that I attended chose to move across town in light of the demographic shift (no slight on them intended by that statement). The City of Longview has taken some steps to eliminate the worst encouragements to criminal activity, noteably the redevelopment of the intersection of High Street and Nelson, which took place while I lived in the neighborhood. Even so, particular caution is advised for people walking the streets, especially at night.

Despite the neighborhood, the worst threat to L.U. that I saw came from the students, themselves. I happened to be on campus, working late in the CAD lab in one of the engineering buildings, when one of the students used an inner tube to pull the campus' main circuit breaker. Several of us rushed outside. I saw an odd, electric glow coming from the direction of the pole where the switch was located. For the next few hours, several of the students engaged in fairly wild activity. However, the worst property damage known to me came from the electrical disruption; several air conditioning compressors were ruined, costing the school thousands of dollars to replace.

South Longview and LETU

I never heard of any incident in which a resident of the neighborhood outside the campus of L.U. caused any trouble to anyone on campus. They stay in their world; L.U. stays in theirs. L.U. is kind of like M. Night Shyamalan's "The Village."

While I'm not sure what exactly to say as far as the anecdotes and whatnot, I agree that the satement about outreach is definitely POV and I'm about to edit it. Insofar as those off-campus not troubling those on-campus, that's nonsense: pure and simple. If you do any looking into police reports, you will note numerous car break-ins, vandalism, and theft that has been attributed to (and in some cases proved in court to be) denizens of the surrounding neighborhoods. Further, at least once within the last 5 years, LeTourneau students have been shot at on the roads immediately adjacent to campus. --Vengeful Cynic 14:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Good job on the edit of that section.

I have always been leery of the claims that so much vandelism, theft, etc. occurs on campus from outsiders. I heard all that when I was a student, even the claim that someone shot "at" some students. Yes, the people in the neighborhoods in the area would behave that way; indeed, a month after I moved out of my apartment on High Street, a man standing in front of the apartment complex was killed in a drive-by shooting, and there were several gunshots within the apartment complex over the years that I lived there. My car was broken into while it was parked at my apartment. But, this crime wave on campus was perpetuated by ghosts. I never saw anyone on campus who wasn't from the school. And, it was not at all beyond the students to say things based on their imaginations. I suppose I am less sympathetic because whatever the students on campus might suffer, I was suffering much worse in my apartment complex. Pooua 23:11, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

A further note concerning shots fired at LeTourneau students: I have witnessed several shooting incidents during my occupation on High Street. I lived about a mile from campus. I walked around that neighborhood for 5 years, saw or heard a half-dozen shootings, and in every case, the person doing the shooting and the people being shot at had some sort of prior relationship. So, when LeTourneau students tell me that someone was shooting at them, I have to wonder what they were doing? Pooua 05:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Earlier this semester, a friend of mine had his moped stolen. He reported it to security and LPD- it was spotted being ridden in the neighborhood just north of campus. The moped was recovered, the the thief confirmed to be a resident of that neighborhood. He was arrested. That same week, a Jeep was stolen out of the Tyler East lot- also by a resident of the neighborhood. I don't know as much about that incident, I wasn't involved. Also, my roommate's (locked) bike was stolen off of the Tyler West bike rack last year- the Master cable lock was found cut on the ground- the bike was found not far away, abandoned due to a flat tire. It was found next to the fence separating LETU from the neighborhood to the north. Phasmatisnox 01:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Flavor of L.U.

Although the encyclopedic entry is technically accurate, it doesn't quite reflect what life is like at L.U. The school's personality has seen significant shifts over the decades. At one time, it was a conservative school with strict discipline. Compared to state universities, it still is. However, there have been many changes, as I have learned from anectdotes told by people who attended the school at various times in its life.

My Lutheran pastor told me that when he was a young man, he was kicked out of LeTourneau University for having too-long sideburns. Contrast this with a young man who was in my Bible class. He had a pony tail half-way down his back, and studs piercing his eyebrows. Another student dyed his hair a different color every so often. And, though it is a Christian University, another classmate of mine was a devout Moslem.

A friend of mine explained to me that the guy with the pony tail could reach someone who I could not. I've never accepted the validity of that line of reasoning, but many Evangelicals do.

Someone should also describe the chapel services. Several students were quite unhappy with the chapel services when I was a student. The main complaint was that the chapel services were not worship services. In fact, there wasn't much reason for calling them chapel services. So, I will describe how chapel services proceeded when I was a student, as best as I can remember.

All the student casually file into the auditorium. As each student enters, he is given a slip of paper, which will record his attendance. The student finds a seat in the great hall. Usually, there is Contemporary Christian Music playing. Several students are sitting on the floor in the back. Some are sleeping, others are reading. They will continue this way throughout the entire chapel service. The chapel hour often begins with the students led in singing some songs, usually Christian music of some variety. Any announcements that need to be made to the student body will be made by various people on the platform. Then, some pre-arranged act will proceed. The act could be any number of things. Sometimes, it is a preacher preaching. I heard Kent Hovind and Dave Roever address the students on their respective days. On other days, the act may be skits, produced either by some students, the faculty or visiting groups. The skits almost always have a Christian theme of some sort. When the act concludes, music starts playing, and the students leave. On their way out, they drop off their attendance slips.

I began attending LeTourneau University soon after the Internet was commercialized. In fact, I began attending LeTourneau University about the time that the students first got Internet access in the computer labs. This confluence brought about some odd circumstances, generally regarding porn and nudity from the Web. The computer labs had signs posted, warning that students could be suspended for accessing certain content. At the same time, some pranksters (not necessarily L.U. students) rigged the Web to flood people with pornography. Someone, somehow, even managed one day to rig all the Web search engines to return nude photos for all search terms. But, despite this, many of the students were loudly opposed to any kind of government regulation of the Internet. Several of them participated in the Web Blackout, in which Webmasters set their backgrounds black to protest the 1996 Communications Decency Act. I was surprised that Christian students would be opposed to the prohibition of pornography, but they argued that if porn were restricted or regulated, then the Gospel could be restricted or regulated.

I have to admit that I downloaded quite a number of files depicting female nudity. I have never seen anything more beautiful than a nude woman. And, I did so in plain sight of anyone in the computer labs. It is against my nature to hide what I do. No one ever complained to me that I was looking at pictures of nude women. However, the school Administration began doing very odd things, which they would not explain. Ultimately, they banned me from campus, pending psychiatric examination. The Vice-President refused to specify why he believed that I needed psychiatric evaluation. Maybe it was because of something I did; maybe not. He only said that his decision was based on some things that I wrote for my class assignments, besides my behavior in public (I suffer from obsessive-compulsive behaviors). Technically, I am still not allowed on the L.U. campus without an Administration representative escorting me (has to be someone in Admin; my academic advisor asked if he could escort me, but the Administration rejected his offer).

The computer labs were set up so that each time the computers were rebooted, the contents of the hard drive would be overwritten. That would wipe out the Web browser cache, too. I found that most students did not reboot their computers when they left the lab, and that I could browse their Web browser cache for pictures. Many L.U. students found much better pictures of nude women than I could. But, a lab aid noticed what I was doing one day. When he discovered that I was looking at the Web caches, he walked around to all the computers, rebooting them. I asked him what he was doing. He said he was protecting the students. Now, all the students logged on anonymously, and there was no way to identify who had filled the cache; so, what the lab aid was doing was protecting the reputation of the school, not the fidelity of the students. By-the-way, the Administration claimed all along that they had Internet filters restricting access to porn sites (though I found in the Web browser History that someone frequently accessed Hustler's Website from the computer labs), and they had a log of all the Websites that students visited, which they said they could review to identify wayward students.

In quite a few areas like this, LeTourneau University students represent the Liberal side of Evangelicism. The Administration protects them, lies for them, covers for them. They have quite a facade. Maybe I'm a jerk for peaking behind the curtain, but I also know that the emporer has no clothes.

Not all of LeTourneau University is uniformly Liberal. The Engineering Department was the most conservative of the divisions I watched. Several of the professors in the Engineering Department had known R.G. LeTourneau personally, and had taught under his administration. In contrast, the Liberal Arts Department was more Liberal. It is also one of the newer departments at the University, and a big part of the reason that there are female students on campus. When I was a student at L.U., the male to female ratio had dropped almost to 2:1. I should mention that I had very little contact with the Science Department; I heard rumors that some of the professors accepted Evolutionary Theory, but I could not confirm that rumor from my brief encounters. I had no significant contact with the Aerospace Department.

Sports

From the article: "Soccer, football, volleyball and basketball intramurals are highly valued." What does this mean? Most colleges and universities "highly value" their sports programs. How (or is) LeTourneau University any different?

In my experience, yes, athletics are a valued part of L.U. The students enjoy it, and the soccer team is a source of school pride. I don't remember the football team from my time at the school in the '90s; in fact, wasn't one reason the soccer team was so popular due to the lack of a school football team? Or, maybe the football team was in its infancy when I was there? Or, I might be confusing my colleges; I've attended so many. But, there are schools that value their athletics programs even more highly than does L.U. It may be an unfair comparison, but the Air Force Academy requires all students to attend all extracurricular events; I never attended any athletic tournament at L.U. (though I did participate in a few soccer games between students).

Continuing with the article: "Somewhat unique to LeTourneau ..." What does "somewhat unique" mean? Beware of weak modifiers. Pooua 22:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

By "somewhat unique", they mean that a huge portion of campus participates. Like, almost everybody. Each floor will make an effort to get a team going in some sport, to defend their honor. Or something like that. Note that I'm not a LeTourneau student yet, this is just what they told us at the preview weekend. --James 01:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It may be somewhat unique that LETU students often value intramurals more than varsity sports. But the participation and value of intramurals is not at all unique compared to other campuses. The article seems to flow well as it is now. Pollox87 05:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)