Talk:Rock Band (video game)

Pricing

Can someone clean up the pricing section? It's pretty confusing as it is, and although well sourced, the information is somewhat repetitive. Chipotlehero 13:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

As of August 6, 2007 the game can be ordered with a price of 199.99$ for both Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 [1] racer_x124

Game Informer

there is a pic in gameinformer that would be great for this--24.10.15.177 06:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

"...and both keyboard and guitar effects pedals will be based on brands from Roland and BOSS, respectively".

I can't see anything in this page or the cited source that suggests there will be keyboard controllers available, let alone keyboard effect pedals. It'd definately be awesome, but for now it's pure speculation.

The source itself never explicitly claims that these corporations will endorse peripherals for the game, but rather that they have been conscripted to appear on in-game materials. (Consider Orange amps being used in Guitar Hero II, for example) Whether or not the relationship evolves into something more substantial remains to be seen, a sentiment echoed in the GameSpot article itself. The wording in the article is a bit poor though, so it should probably be altered. - C. M. Reed 05:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

june issue?

i dont think it was the june issue of GI that said that, but I know that july is talking about it.--drumman8510 08:09, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

six songs from IGN

Can someone help to confirm or refute the six songs being added by an anon IP that this poster is claiming came from an IGN interview? The songs posted seem to be legit (not the usual wish-list type songs) but I've yet to see anything on IGN or any other major game site that describes this interview. Given the edits seem to be ignoring the Citation request, I'm beginning to think that this is just a poser. --Masem 18:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Given that the same IP posted, in reply, a goatse link as a reference, I'm pretty damn sure this is now wrong. I've removed the items --Masem 18:54, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

cost

does anyone have any ideo of how much it will cost? will the fact that it includes all the extra controllers make it cost over $100? anyone know?

I heard up to $200-$300 USD. See this article for what I'm talking about. Cotton ^{-reply here please-} 20:34, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I changed the wording in the cost section of the article to make sure it is clear that the cost is still unannounced. The Rock Band official website confirms all prices as unannounced http://www.rockband.com/index.php?do=/public/content/file_faq/dir_language/ Chipotlehero 19:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rockband-guitar.jpg

Image:Rockband-guitar.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Rock Band Video on Gamespot

It says there is a video on gamespot, but i cant access it. Fluke?

No, it is (was) a legitimate occurrence, though it has apparently been removed at the behest of Harmonix. Either way, the video itself can be seen on YouTube though it shouldn't be implemented into the article itself as it probably offends some sort of copyright.

C. M. Reed 02:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

rectangles instead of circles?

im just wondering if there are going to be harmmer ons and pull offs like in guitar hero, I dont see a way to distinguish between regular and harmmer ons and pull offs with those rectangles

Filled vs. solid? Y2kcrazyjoker4 20:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Regular notes are rectangles, notes that you no not need to strum for are smaller circles. This can be seen by looking carefully at the videos. I'm not sure of an actual source for this, however. Bakkster Man 18:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

The screenshot

since the screen shot has the lyrics of rockaway beach by The Ramones, is it confirmed?

No; it falls in the same grey area as "Welcome to the Jungle". It's in present screenshots but not necessarily the final build. --Masem 03:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

"Phoneme" vs "Phone"

I read the initial Game Informer article, and they specifically say the word "phoneme" in regards to the mic functionality: specifically, that the game can tell the difference between vowel and consonant phonemes. Understanding that phone is meant to be a specific recognizable part of speech, while "phoneme" is a set of phones that have similar sounding characteristics, I'm pretty sure that Game Informer's usage is right based on their description: "Rock Band" will be able to tell if you're singing one or other type of phoneme, but not to be able to identify specific phones. --Masem 13:24, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

A phoneme is an abstraction, firmly in the realm of phonology. What the Rock Band software does is a matter of phonetics: it distinguishes between vocalic and consonantal phones based on analysis of their waveforms. It doesn't know anything about the phonemes of which they are allophones. Ilkali 14:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is about verifiability not truth. What is verifiable is that a reliable source uses 'Phoneme' not 'Phone', meaning that to stay in-line with Wikipedias core policy the article must use 'Phoneme' and anyone wishing to change that term must produce a reliable source related to this game that uses the term 'Phone'. DarkSaber2k 14:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

If the article describes something that the game does, and that something can be best classified as phone analysis, then the article verifies that the game performs phone analysis. It doesn't need to use those words to do so. Ilkali 21:56, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

The article does not describe how it is done. It just says "phoneme detection" that can tell the difference between vowels and consonants. I would expect after or closer to release there may be some technical articles on how this works, but presently there is no additional information. If it truly is "phone" rather that "phoneme" detection, then we can change it then. --Masem 22:20, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how it's done. In your original quote, the article states that the game distinguishes between consonants and vowels without recognising specific phones. If you can't recognise individual phones, you're nowhere near the level of the phoneme. If the contents of the quote are true, the game necessarily does not use phoneme recognition. Ilkali 23:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

And it also doesn't matter what it actually recognizes. The line is a direct quote; in a direct quote, you can't change the content of what's said, even if it's not technically accurate. The article says "phoneme," so the quoted text must also say "phoneme." Rdfox 76 23:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: "The line is a direct quote". No it isn't. Ilkali 00:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I quote from the article (p66 running into p67): "Vocalists sing along to the rock tunes as they always have. Now, however, a phoneme detector will pick up the individual vowels and consonants that you say." Ok, I mixed up detector with detection, but the key work "phoneme" is what is printed there. If the game's actually doing "phone" detection, and the author messed up, understandably, but this is the only current reliable source that I've seen on what the mic does in RB. --06:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Recognising phonemes entails recognising phones. Recognising phones entails analysing phones. Do we agree that the article verifies that phone analysis occurs? Ilkali 11:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

{reset indent) No, it appears that everyone but you agrees that in order to keep in line with wikipedias core policy of verifiability not truth we must put it in the article as it appears in the source. To do otherwise is original research. DarkSaber2k 11:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Currently the Wikipedia article says that RB performs "phoneme recognition", while the source article only says that it has a "phoneme detector". Currently the Wikipedia article talks about distinguishing between vowels and consonants, while the source article talks about "pick[ing] up the individual vowels and consonants". Different words with different meanings. Isn't it supposed to be as it appears in the source?

I presented an argument for the verifiability of the claim that RB uses phone analysis. Are you going to address that argument? Ilkali 12:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Now it matches the source, problem solved. You have no argument. What you are doing is synthesising your own interpretations and the sources to push your own view, expressly banned by the original research policy. The sentence in the article now matches the source exactly, conforming with verifiable not truth. There is nothing further to discuss if you have no argument based around wikipedia policies. DarkSaber2k 12:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, let's start from the barest basics. If a reputable article states A, and A entails B, the article verifies B. Do you agree to this?

No. To quote wiki policy: Editors often make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article to advance position C. However, this would be an example of a new synthesis of published material serving to advance a position, and as such it would constitute original research. I say again, you have no argument. DarkSaber2k 13:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

So if an article stated that 'Joe killed Bob' (A), any claim that 'Bob is dead' (B) would be original research? Of course not. A entails B, so by verifying A, the article verifies B. Barest basics. Ilkali 13:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Once again, this is about wiki polcies. You want WP:V in it's barest basic, it's this: Wikipedia is about verifiability not truth. Quite simply, everything in the article must be verifibale through sources. We have a source for the way the article currently written. We have you saying that is wrong. Wikipedia says we go with the source. Do you need it dumbed down any further? DarkSaber2k 13:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you even reading what I'm writing? Do you know what the words mean? I'm not arguing that either claim is synthetically true or false. I'm arguing, currently, that the one I favor is verified by the article. All you seem able to do is repeatedly assert otherwise. Ilkali 13:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's a link to another RB preview article from a group that played it at E3 - [2] - they also use the words "phoneme detection". Now, I'm going to assume that both the author of the GI article and the author of this piece are not voice pattern analysis experts (nor do I claim to be one myself), yet we're seeing this "phoneme detection" appearing in separation sources. My feeling is that this is exactly the phase that HMX or whomever is showing the game to these people is using to say how the microphone works. It may be that someone perverted the true meaning to make it a marketing term, because casually saying "phone detection" to a person not familiar with voice patterns may wonder why the game needs to determine if a telephone is nearby; it may be that the person that set this phrase in motion didn't understand the difference between "phone detection" and "phoneme detection", and came up with a technical sounding phrase that matched what they were aware of what the game was doing. Either way, "phoneme detection" is the phrase that we can cite even if it is not the proper term. Maybe this could be a case equivalent to a "(sic)" used in quotes: we know what the speaker meant, but what they are quoted as stating is completely wrong.

Question to Ilkali then, as you do appear to know the distinction here: What is the difference between "phoneme detection" and "phone detection"? What they describe they are technically doing with the mic is limited in both articles, but if we can make a clear distinction based on the proper definition of these terms and what they are doing, we can rewrite the article to state along the lines that "phoneme detection" is not quite the right term to use. However, we have to be able to do that without original research, and given the limited amount of information that is out there, that doesn't appear to be possible (we would have to make assumptions about what the mic does over and above what the two articles states). I understand the frustration knowing that it should be one way and not the other, but presently there's no sufficient information that appears to make a compelling change in the article. I would, however, expect that as the game gets closer to release we will hear more, enough to make a better distinction. --Masem 13:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Ikali, it no longer matters whether the correct term is phoneme or phone. At this point, we are using a direct quote of the preview in Game Informer, and one of the basic rules of any document that contains direct quotes is that the quote itself may not be modified. At this point, there's not enough technical detail on the hardware and software used to determine exactly how the microphone works; once there is, maybe we'll be able to determine if it's actually phone detection instead of phoneme detection. However, at this point, making the claim that the "phoneme detection" phraseology is inaccurate is both original research and speculation, both of which are prohibited by Wikipedia policy. Maybe we should just take a step back, take a deep breath, and leave it at the raw quote for now, and revisit this once technical details of the microphone are revealed? After all, to misquote Joel Hodgson, "It's just a Wiki, we should really just relax." Rdfox 76 14:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The wiki article is probably using the best method possible here until the game actually comes out and we can verify what it really does -- it says "according to game informer" and then puts quotation marks around a direct quote. The technical difference between phones and phonemes is only going to matter to those who know what they are; and those that are curious and find out what they are might note that the quote can't possibly be true. But I think the inclusion of the quote in its current form (explicitly stating where it came from and using quotation marks to denote that it's lifted directly from the source) is probably the optimal solution for the moment. 63.163.61.3 17:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Cymbals?

I know that cymbals are an integral part of drumming... but i don't see them anywhere on the kit. Will they be triggered by one of the drum pads? And if they choose to make seperate cymbals, they'll need another pedal for hihat control. Just saying...

Two pads will be used for the hihat and crash/ride cymbal, depending on the song. Y2kcrazyjoker4 13:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Strokes????

During the Microsoft E3 conference they said that the Strokes will be in the game. Can someone find a source? I watched the vid on TV so I dont have a link..

Metallica

Enter Sandman is in: http://www.gamespot.com/news/.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

I have two words for that. HOLY HELL! --Invader TAK 00:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Before anyone comments on Metallica letting a song in any game for the first time since 1999, let me remind all of you that Wikipedia, and its discussion pages, are not forums for general discussion. Incidentally, it would be useful to watch the GS article for coming developments, if there are any, or to verify songs in case of vandals. -Motleh 02:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Steven Van Zandt Chairman of Rock Band Advisory Board

so says joystiq: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/11/steven-van-zandt-chairs-rock-band-music-advisory-board/ ill let someone else add it since someone else can do a better job than me.98.16.82.152 00:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Might be best to wait for an announcement from Harmonix themselves, or if it's already been announced someone could find a link for verification. No matter how "credible" joystiq is, it's not an official part of Harmonix Systems, Inc. I believe it's best to wait a bit. Of course, if anyone has a problem with that, I'd be happy to reconsider. -Motleh 02:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Alex Rigopulos announced it at E3 today during EA's key note. the picture on joystiq's article is steven van zandt at the podium during the key note. besides, if info from gamespot is being added, why not from joystiq? i would consider them equals(considering they both have live E3 coverage at the moment).98.16.82.152 02:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

just found it on the rockband.com website under "press" but you cant link it. that should be good enough proof isnt it? lol. it also has a little bit more info about metallica being in the game, as well as the full album DLC.98.16.82.152 03:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Bundles available at Gamestop/EB

Just wondering if there was any reason the bundles available at Gamestop/EB Games weren't listed under the pricing heading. It's the game, guitar, drums, and mic for US$ 199.99 and is linked through the Rock Band website under the "Pre-Order" tab. I figured this would be in the article already, unless there is a reason I am unaware of which is why I'm inquiring. 71.195.89.35 13:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Online store catalogs are not reliable sources. They often get dates wrong, and while most other details are generally correct, they should not be used as a factual reference. --Masem 14:02, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

GameStop/EBGames pre-order listings are almost always guestimates at what they think the game will sell for and when it will be released. They are usually not reliable and since Harmonix has not confirmed a price point yet, they remain speculation at this point. Y2kcrazyjoker4 18:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

welcome to the jungle/last train home is in!!

you can see it here : http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xd3E8zgqJM4

last train home by the lostprophets is in!! watch it here : http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=

I'd just like to point out that the video does not match the audio in any way, shape, or form. Also, the Welcome to the Jungle link (posted by this user or not) has already been confirmed to not be in Rock Band, but instead in Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock. EDIT: And these songs have been put in the article? I doubt the credibility of these links. Nfsjunkie91 02:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Please do not add unconfirmed songs, especially with YouTube videos as your source! Please also sign all comments you make on this page. Y2kcrazyjoker4 12:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"Mastering the drums on hard..."

I have seen it multiple places that if you master the drums on the hard difficulty, then you would be able to play a real drum kit. So does this mean that there are only 3 difficulty levels for the drums? Or is there going to be 4 levels? I sure hope there is an expert level but does anyone know for sure?--Shardsoffork 06:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

There will almost certainly be an Expert difficulty. I think they are just saying mastering the Hard difficulty will be the beginning of a player being competent at real-life drums and anything beyond that is even more of an accomplishment. Y2kcrazyjoker4 01:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok thats good to hear I'm excited to see how well non-drummers will be able to play. Actually I'm curious to see how well actual drummers will play too. Overall I think this is going to be the best aspect of this entire game, and I cant wait to play it.--Shardsoffork 06:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Once the Developer blogs come back online I'll grab a source that confirms both Expert mode and the "learn to play drums" anecdote. Bakkster Man 18:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's the blog post: [3] Bakkster Man 19:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Songs Wanted

If we start a list of songs that would be good for Rock Band maybe they can make the list. Two songs that could be great on Rock Band and should of probably been in Guitar Hero. Stairway to Heaven by Lef Zepplin and Dont Stop Beleivin by Journey

• Before you get blasted by someone else, we can't do that. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a request website for Rock Band. If you want to submit songs that you want on the game, e-mail the Rock Band staff on the official website. And by the way, you spelled "Zeppelin" and "Believin'" wrong. Moviemaniacx 19:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

*If you want a place for that, go to the official Rock Band forums: www.rockband.com/vbforum

Double Bass

How are you going to play double bass, like on metallica songs.

You won't. There's 1 bass pedal, so songs will have to be consolidated. Y2kcrazyjoker4 13:21, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

No Rhythm

Hi, as i'm a new user i can't edit the page, but the article says it will be guitar, vocals, drums, and bass/rhythm(source being the GI article). i have known that there is no announcement of rhythm guitar in the game, and went back to check the GI article anyway, and it only says bass. the official site does not mention rhythm, and neither do any interviews i have seen. can somebody please fix this?

I'm pretty sure the IGN previews mention rhythm. Think you can confirm this for us? Y2kcrazyjoker4 12:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

No, IGN doesn't say anything about rhythm.

Wtf? In real life AND in the game there is no such instrument as the "Rythym guitar" or the "Lead guitar" , its both ONE instrument but different roles... they are making the ONE controller type work for playing bass or rythm... and bass too

Ok, what's your point? Y2kcrazyjoker4 02:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

That's not what i'm talking about. In GH2, there was a choice on some of the songs for rhythm guitar or bass guitar(on quick play) if you didn't choose lead. And some people think that rhythm guitar is a part for this game, but there has been no announcement for it so it should not be on the article.

Ac/Dc?

THe newest issue of EGM says that AC/DC will "support Rock Band." While that doesn't necessarily mean that a song from them will be in, shouldn't it at least get a mention?

• The Guitar Hero 3 article has taken care of similar situations with a subsection under the confirmed songs list. If you can scan the article or find it online, I'm sure creating that section is acceptible.....--24.59.155.203 13:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Nirvana's Nevermind

The new issue of Gamepro announced 41 venues in world tour mode, across many famous cities, and announced the album "Nevermind" by Nirvana will be up for DLC

Please provide some scans. And in the future, always sign your posts on this talk page. Y2kcrazyjoker4 00:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind (haha, a pun!). I've seen the scans and I tried to link them in this article, but the domain on which the scans are hosted is not allowed by Wikipedia. Nevertheless, the GamePro article info has been confirmed. Y2kcrazyjoker4 17:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Think you could put in the info about venues? Rev0lverPH 19:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Please edit the screenshot

Someone keeps making an incredible mistake on the Rock Band screenshot in the Gameplay section. It says that the lead guitar is on the left. IT IS NOT. You can tell it is the bass/rhythm guitar because it has a 6x multiplier, but someone keeps thinking that the lead is on the left. Proof: http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/rockband/news.html?sid=6173625&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;3 4th paragraph. Spot2004 21:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

That was the proof we were missing; the old Welcome to the Jungle vid definitely had lead guitar on left, but since we know that's not in the song, it was likely a very early build and so they likely changed it (though I see no reason why this can't be an option in the game to flip the positions of the three bottom pieces). Added that reference since it mentions the 6x bit. --Masem 22:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Gameplay videos from previews and E3 demonstrations have confirmed players can choose where their fretboard appears on the screen, so bass, lead, and drums won't always be in the same place. But the screenshot is now correctly labeled (thanks for recognizing the 6x multiplier in the bottom). Y2kcrazyjoker4 03:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Release Date

I Suggest changing the release date to simply November, 2007, since nothing official has been announced.

Game Engine

Does anyone know the name of the game engine (i.e., middleware) used in the development of Rock Band? Is it third-party or in-house? Aeonassoc 14:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

When they developed Guitar Hero they wrote their own game engine. I assume they are doing the same here, but I have no way to verify that. Bakkster Man 17:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Price, 360 Wired, and Wii version confirmed.

It's from GamePro, so I would consider it a verifiable source. What do you think? I'm adding it for now

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=128668

Toasty! | Available at your local store 02:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)