Talk:Anarchism in Greece

Early discussion

Oh,and the previous articles weren't an outrage: "Anarchism in Greece takes many different forms, from the assassination of the Greek king in 1913 to the student protestors who brought down the Papadopoulos regime in 1973. The word "anarchism" in the English language derives from the Greek for "no rulers". Some anarchists, including Peter Kropotkin, have identified the ancient Greek philosopher Zeno of Citium as an originator of the philosophy. Moreover, ancient Greek sophist Antiphon was the first Western world philosopher claiming that men need no laws to live, but only the sentiment of shame is necessary for a society to function. In their fight against the State, they resort to both violent and non violent actions" or " "Favourite weapons knives, sticks, nails, rock, molotof bombs, and simple bombs" eh? Kanibalos 12:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

@"ruthless critic" below Oh, and plz remember that at a time Socialism had a different meaning than today...

Got an interview from Tamtakos yesterday and obtained some facts ,will publish tomorrow... Kanibalos

Please Refrain from cleanup till the finish of the article

What can't you understand about temporal and non subjective ? @all:Let's make use of the talk feature to write a great and subjective article, not for nonconstructive critics like the " You forgot to mention how anarchists assassinated Hitler and Mussolini, won the troyan war by themselves, euro 2004(it was them really), won ww2(not ww1 though they were taking a nap resting after wining the balcanic wars)." Except that cr*p making a subjective article only through mainstream newspapers and encyclopedias inmho won't do you any good -_- 13:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)13:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)13:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)13:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)85.73.152.31 13:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

ektos thematos oi anafores gia to pws ksekinhse o anarxismos ktl --GrWikiMan 07:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

They are not necessarily out of subject. They are just not well-placed.--Yannismarou 13:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

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Maybe someone should write something about this: "Suspected anarchists damage banks in central Athens" bogdan 10:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

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So you used an indymedia article for the wikipedia anarchy in greece article? This is plain rediculous how about quoting "xrysi avgi"'s site for fascism in greece?

-Absolute lack of anarchist related violence references. -You mix up communists/anarchists/socialists/none of the above all together. -Lack of anarchy related terrorism and support to terrorist reference.

The role of anarchists both in student organizing and radicalizing the movement was a catalyst. kala re file mas douleveis? flyer gia ta exarxia ftiaxneis i arthro sto wikipedia?

but for the first time until junta the police got in It was actually the 4th time. It was the first time ever to make arrests inside campus. Btw the occupyiers were not anarchists only a small fraction of them was.

You forgot to mention how anarchists assasinated Hitler and musolini, won the troyan war by themselves, euro 2004(it was them really), won ww2(not ww1 though they were taking a nap resting after wining the balcanic wars). Im probably going to edit this using normal encyclopedias and newspaper articles when i find time....

-_-

Kai to apo pano diko mou einai , prostheto ena petsokomeno arthro apo http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=7194 h douleia tha sinexistei mallon ayrio , pou tha prospathiso na kano to section gia to 60-90 antikimeniko kai plires kai na simpliroso ta protina kena...

Worthless

This is just propaganda. This article was probably written by anarchists and not only contains moronic arguments but also changes historical facts. Requires major cleanup. Imagine how the communism article would be, if it had been written by stalin! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.212.104.230 (talk) 14:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

The article for 60-90's is temporal and non subjective, as it is a copy from a post in indymedia (adress posted above). I concider the facts in it somehow accurate even it is written under an ideological bias. This was done due to lack of time and soon will be corrected. So any claims for propaganda inmho should stop. Should you consider quoting the moronic arguments you refer too?

This is an outrage!

Indymedia is quoted in an article concerning anarchism in greece! I guess then that Xrisi Avgi (greek neonazi organisation) will be quoted in "fascism in greece" and "immigrants in greece"? Get a grip kids, get a grip.

Too many images

Some should be removed. What do you think? Mitsos 11:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeap

You 're true ^^ . Removed 3 ... Kanibalos 10:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment:Anarchism_In_Greece

Dispute for political events and neutrality. Totally disputed tag on an article tagged under construction.

Statements of editors :

• Oh,and the previous articles weren't an outrage (...)

• The article for 60-90's is temporal and non subjective, as it is a copy from a post in indymedia (adress posted above). I concider the facts in it somehow accurate even it is written under an ideological bias. This was done due to lack of time and soon will be corrected. So any claims for propaganda inmho should stop.

Should you consider quoting the moronic arguments you refer too?

• What can't you understand about temporal and non subjective ?

@all:Let's make use of the talk feature to write a great and subjective article, not for nonconstructive critics(...)

Comments:

• Indymedia is quoted in an article concerning anarchism in greece! I guess then that Xrisi Avgi (greek neonazi organisation) will be quoted in "fascism in greece" and "immigrants in greece"? Get a grip kids, get a grip.

• This is just propaganda. This article was probably written by anarchists and not only contains moronic arguments but also changes historical facts. Requires major cleanup.

10:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments on the request for comment

Requested help because of the dispute/comments above. This is the first article I started writing in wikipedia and it wasn't very encouraging to have people saying that I'm writing outrageous things and propaganda. Tried to resolve things in talk page but as it seems currently I'm the only one who does research for the article (and have been from day 1 I entered wikipedia ) and people just passed and then forgot the article. My main problem is that I don't feel very nice having to see the totally disputed tag every time i log into the article (thing that happens couple of times every day) and i feel that this (the question of whether the article is written under political bias and I forge history as it is claimed above) should be done when the article is finished and all citations are added. I tried to show good faith in the talk page and to learn the ropes as faster as I could (to quicken this I got a more experienced user to adopt me), contrary to people who from my line of sight where just here to say their opinion and then leave . Kanibalos 11:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Users who insist on keeping the totally disputed tag, should make a list here on the talk page of the things they believe are disputed. Then, all issues could be solved on a "one issue at a time" basis. I'm saying this because on this talk page what I've seen is not specific objections to specific issues, but rather a more confrontational attitude in general. People, stay cool and discuss. All is solvable. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 15:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Michali , the thing is that people came, showed their attitude and left :/ (See history last confrontational post is 1 month + old ) . Kanibalos 19:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Then, be bold and finish writing the article as you see fit. Should objections arise, I'm sure we could solve the dispute and to improve the article. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 20:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This is my first article in wikipedia and I don't know how exactly things work :) . Thank you for the envouragement.

Kanibalos 21:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed tag totally disputed and immediate attention under the be bold "rule" and the fact the only presence people opposite to the current article had was only with one post in the talk page.

P>S> Got any darn problems fixit yourself ^^ .

Kanibalos 23:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Nikos Kountardas

Why isn't he listed as a prisoner (on the imprisoned list)? He is an anarchist criminal. Mitsos 17:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT --Michalis Famelis (talk) 11:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Released... And i prefer the use of Anarchist Prisoners in Greece from Imprisoned Greek Anarchists, because of the fact that and non-greek anarchist people where arrested in the past, like in the G-8 in 2003 or this year a german guy. Kanibalos 18:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, I heard that a few days ago. I think imprisoned Greek anarchists (or imprisoned anarchists in Greece) is more grammatically correct. To WP:SOFIXIT pou kollaei? Mitsos 10:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I meant to say that instead of asking "where is it", you can add the info yourself. It is more productive that way. --Michalis Famelis (talk) 13:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Please Refrain from cleanup like that till the finish of the article

No sense for removing a red link in an under construction article 1& 1/2 week after the cleanup tag removed . Sooner or later the red links while be filled and making an npov article about political things you live everyday is done either sloppily or easy and with utter care . Not every article can be finished in a short timetable and not everyone has the money,time and access to "professional" history books or to fill blanks with-out trying to do original research plus seriously reading any historical book and extarcting information is a tiring job. You should also consider that english is not my native language so while I try to find and compile in the English language and in an appropriate style for an article (, that I would really like to finish ,) translating and composing an edit from sources varying from npov anarchist's newspapers, everyday commercial newspapers and historical books/sources that have a language range from modern Greek to Kathareyousa (composed greek ) , I would like to have some laxity of time completing the article. So to complete my point : I clearly dislike the edits made by user Mitsos and deem them unnecessary and maybe provocative . I would like to see in feature edits , an appropriate explanation for "cleanup" or other edits in the discussion section (as there where some (I feel again , see history) unexplained , that where mistakenly labeled minor edits) . Even though user Mitsos , has expressed a clear npow view (In anarchist criminal for a man found not guilty under Greece 's courts . I presume labeling a man criminal , starts from a range of rude and finishes to the point of clearly offensive. This can be seen by the using of the expressions etc. used i.e. assumed to be guilty of ..., up-to-now charged with the offense of ..., suspected of committing the ... ,or a declaration without citation or source like a "add political beliefs" criminal (as far as I know a criminal is someone who was judged and found guilty of committing offenses ) in the discussion page of the article. I want to clearly try to assume good faith in wikipedia even though user Mitsos is a national socialist (check user-page) and so forth has an opposite ideology to mine and even if he has a bad history (disruptive comments, blocks and stuff) . So dear Mitsos either you start the use the discussion page I will try to get protection for this page. This is not a personal attack but after seeing your history which is admittedly not of a good hue , I would like the discussion page used instead of the 2 or more consequently edits even is of a cleanup and a simple remark of red links cleaned ... ( Am I a paranoid wikipedian or are you a a Red Watcher ?

Sorry for forgetting to mention it last but all of the red tags you deleted where added "recently and while with work in it's duration of it"

Kanibalos 03:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Relax on the personal attacks. I reviewed User:Mitsos's edits and they were of a normal clean-up variety, and correctly marked as minor as they would be uncontroversial under normal circumstances. If there are unfinished/unsourced elements in the article that you intend on fixing in the very near future, consider using <!-- insert comment here --> to let editors know what you're trying to do. The article is coming along nicely, please continue your work and let us know when you are happy to let it be cleaned-up. If you have serious problems co-operating with others, consider making your own version of the page i.e. User:Kaniballos/Anarchism in Greece where you can perfect your preferred vision and then discuss it on this talkpage so consensus may be reached. Regards, Skomorokh ^incite 04:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

In wikipedia I don't have a problem with anyone (so long) and I would like to stay this way . So maybe I do not trust some users but I don't think I do personal attacks . I express that mistrust openly and without (at least trying) getting any emnity in wikipedia ( I mean that if mitsos was in

File:Olympiongc9.jpg

we could trade blows real life but here that does not matter for me).

Also Skomorokh this is not my article , I know the thinky of the personal page and I know anyone can make any cleanup and even delete the article to the core edit by edit. I don't care about getting competitive or personal in wikipedia . Anyway any user could do the edits that where made. I would call them unneeded and certainly not smart . I mean why start deleting red link in articles that are not ready? To my little experience you fill the links not or let them rest in peace until someone else who can does so. And again I didn't ask for anyone to do anything impossible, I said use the discussion page. Kanibalos 10:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)