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Talk:Passeier Valley

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mai-Sachme (talk | contribs) at 17:13, 22 August 2007. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This template must be substituted. Replace {{Requested move ...}} with {{subst:Requested move ...}}.

Requested move

  • Oppose. In fact, google gives 13,800 hits for "val passiria" -wikipedia and 902 for passeiertal -wikipedia, but moreover English maps, encyclopedias, etc. prefer val passiria and the naming conventions say to use the current local names (so the Italian names for places in Italy, the French name for places in France and so on) when there isn't a clear preference for a name in English. See also Danzig vs Gdansk.--Supparluca 06:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • moreover English maps, encyclopedias, etc. prefer val passiria - Please prove this assertion!
  • 13,800 hits for "val passiria" -wikipedia and 902 for passeiertal -wikipedia I can't find, where you got your google-hits - please give me the links! But when i search for pages from the UK, i have 144 hits for Val Passiria and 229 for Passeiertal. Imho this result proves that there is no clear preference for one of the two names.
  • the naming conventions say to use the current local names (so the Italian names for places in Italy, the French name for places in France and so on) I'm sorry, but do you take me for a fool? You know the discussions regarding South Tyrol and the consensus was that we use the names of the local and not of the national majority ([1]) - that's why we moved Val Pusteria to Pustertal, Val Venosta to Vinschgau and Rienza to Rienz, aside from the rest of the Communes of South Tyrol. Mai-Sachme 10:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
[2] and [3] (www.google.com -> language tools -> only English -> "val passiria" -wikipedia -> etc.). People in the Passiria valley are Italian citizens.--Supparluca 12:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
People in the Pustertal or the Vinschgau are Italian citizens, too, but that's not the point. I have to repeat: Supparluca, you know the discussions about article names regarding South Tyrol, and I can't understand why you act the fool as if you've never heart anything about the consensus to use the names of the local majority. Little valleys in the Alps have obviously no commonly used English names and in this case the Naming conventions are non-ambiguous. Furthermore we have enough precedents, almost every geographical name in South Tyrol coincides with the denomination used by the local majority and Val Passiria is one of the few relicts, which don't accord to the NC. Mai-Sachme 15:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Data

I set up, below, the six suggested tests of WP:NCGN. have fun:

  1. Encyclopedias:
    • Britannica: one hit, for Passiria.
    • Columbia
    • Encarta
  2. Scholarly google results (not raw google, please; and remember to look for false positives).
  3. Other standard English sources.
    • LC country study for Italy - None
    • Cambridge History
    • Oxford Dictionary
  4. Media usage
  5. Consensus of Wikipedia editors (unlikely)
  6. Use of one name as a translation of the other.

Regards. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not a democracy, but Wikipedia is a democracy as far as the province of Bolzano is concerned.--Supparluca 10:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but looking at the 6 suggested tests I can't find a clear preference. Where the above tests, therefore, give no indication of a widely used English name, those articles are placed according to the language of the linguistic majority. If these conditions apply elsewhere, this solution may be worth considering. (from the Naming Conventions). Mai-Sachme 11:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@Septentrionalis: You forgot the option Passeier valley [6] and [7]. It seems that Passeier valley is the most common name. Maybe you will reconsider your decision to vote Oppose. 212.171.128.42 13:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting; if Passeier Valley were the proposed move target, I would support. Please amend. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I think everybody who voted for Passeiertal, would also be content with Passeier valley, because finally we're just discussing if we should take Passiria or Passeier. What if I exchanged Passeiertal with Passeier valley in the request? Or is it really necesssary to start up a new discussion? Mai-Sachme 16:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose you could go ahead and change it, but make sure to notify everyone who has already voted commented. —AldeBaer 16:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Done Mai-Sachme 17:12, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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