User talk:Beetstra

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	Warning to Vandals: This user is armed with VandalProof.
	Warning to Spammers: This user is armed with Spamda
	This user knows where IRC hides the cookies, and knows how to feed them to AntiSpamBot.

Welcome to my talk page.

Please leave me a note by starting a new subject here
and please don't forget to sign your post

You may want to have a look at the subjects
in the header of this talkpage before starting a new subject.
The question you may have may already have been answered there

Dirk Beetstra


Wikipedia ads	file info – show another – #6

I am the main operator of User:COIBot. If you feel that your name is wrongly on the COI reports list because of an unfortunate overlap between your username and a certain link or text, please ask for whitelisting by starting a new subject on my talkpage. For a better answer please include some specific 'diffs' of your edits (you can copy the link from the report page). If you want a quicker response, make your case at WT:WPSPAM or WP:COIN.
COIBot - Talk to COIBot - listings - Link reports - User reports - Page reports

Responding

I will respond to talk messages where they started, trying to keep discussions in one place (you may want to watch this page for some time after adding a question). Otherwise I will clearly state where the discussion will be moved/copied to. Though, with the large number of pages I am watching, it may be wise to contact me here as well if you need a swift response. If I forget to answer, poke me.

I preserve the right not to answer to non-civil remarks, or subjects which are covered in this talk-header.

ON EXTERNAL LINK REMOVAL

There are several discussions about my link removal here, and in my archives. If you want to contact me about my view of this policy, please read and understand WP:NOT, WP:EL, WP:SPAM and WP:A, and read the discussions on my talkpage or in my archives first.

My view in a nutshell:
External links are not meant to tunnel people away from the wikipedia.

Hence, I will remove external links on pages where I think they do not add to the page (per WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:EL), or when they are added in a way that wikipedia defines as spam (understand that wikipedia defines spam as: '... wide-scale external link spamming ...', even if the link is appropriate; also read this). This may mean that I remove links, while similar links are already there or which are there already for a long time. Still, the question is not whether your link should be there, the question may be whether those other links should be there (again, see the wording of the policies and guidelines).

Please consider the alternatives before re-adding the link:

If the link contains information, use the information to add content to the article, and use the link as a reference (content is not 'see here for more information').
Add an appropriate linkfarm (you can consider to remove other links covered there).
Incorporate the information into one of the sister projects.
Add the link to other mediawiki projects aimed at advertiseing (see e.g. this)

If the linkspam of a certain link perseveres, I will not hesitate to report it to the wikiproject spam for blacklisting (even if the link would be appropriate for wikipedia). It may be wise to consider the alternatives before things get to that point.

The answer in a nutshell
Please consider if the link you want to add complies with the policies and guidelines.

If you have other questions, or still have questions on my view of the external link policy, disagree with me, or think I made a mistake in removing a link you added, please poke me by starting a new subject on my talk-page. If you absolutely want an answer, you can try to poke the people at WT:EL or WT:WPSPAM on your specific case. Also, regarding link, I can be contacted on IRC, channel [1].

Reliable sources

I convert inline URL's into references and convert referencing styles to a consistent format. My preferred style is the style provided by cite.php (<ref> and <references/>). When other mechanisms are mainly (but not consistently) used (e.g. {{ref}}/{{note}}/{{cite}}-templates) I will assess whether referencing would benefit from the cite.php-style. Feel free to revert these edits when I am wrong.

Converting inline URLs in references may result in data being retrieved from unreliable sources. In these cases, the link may have been removed, and replaced by a {{cn}}. If you feel that the page should be used as a reference (complying with wp:rs!!), please discuss that on the talkpage of the page, or poke me by starting a new subject on my talk-page

Note: I am working with some other developers on mediawiki to expand the possibilities of cite.php, our attempts can be followed here and here. If you like these features and want them enabled, please vote for these bugs.

Stub/Importance/Notability/Expand/Expert

I am in general against deletion, except when the page really gives misinformation, is clear spam or copyvio. Otherwise, these pages may need to be expanded or rewritten. For very short articles there are the different {{stub}} marks, which clearly state that the article is to be expanded. For articles that do not state why they are notable, I will add either {{importance}} or {{notability}}. In my view there is a distinct difference between these two templates, while articles carrying one of these templates may not be notable, the first template does say the article is probably notable enough, but the contents does not state that (yet). The latter provides a clear concern that the article is not notable, and should probably be {{prod}}ed or {{AfD}}ed. Removing importance-tags does not take away the backlog, it only hides from attention, deleting pages does not make the database smaller. If you contest the notability/importance of an article, please consider adding an {{expert-subject}} tag, or raise the subject on an appropriate wikiproject. Remember, there are many, many pages on the wikipedia, many need attention, so maybe we have to live with a backlog.

Having said this, I generally delete the {{expand}}-template on sight. The template is in most cases superfluous, expansion is intrinsic to the wikipedia (for stubs, expansion is already mentioned in that template).

Regarding ImgSTAR

Regarding ImgSTAR. There were many spelling and description errors. Now everything is corrected. I did not intend to span. Thank You for you help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ImgSTAR (talk • contribs) 18:08, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Still, your page is blatantly advertising, and you have a COI. The page is now salted. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 18:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MSG

Why did you remove my info about commercial dry cleaning in 'Commercialization' section of MSG? It was used for dry cleaning long before anyone thought of using it as a food enhancer/preservative.

(email address archived to page history to prevent indexing --Versageek 20:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krzxbleach (talk • contribs) 20:15, August 29, 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I did not, it was Rifleman 82. But I think what he did was correct, as, as you also stated yourself, the statement was far from complete, and did not contain any references or similar information. Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 20:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for the message, I was unaware I was unable to post them links on the Nick's reference page. I have suggested them in the talk page.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by PWMAndy (talk • contribs) 16:05, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 16:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gemzies

Hello Beetstra,

I have posted an link to the Quentin Tarantino Gemzies on The Quentin Tarantino Wiki. In my opinion is this a great addition to this Wiki, because it provides a great archive of video's, books, pictures, blogs and websites.

Could you please reconsider your removal on the The Quentin Tarantino Wiki.

Thanks!

Kind Regards,

MarcelB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.87.215.136 (talk) 10:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, firstly, we are writing an encyclopedia here, not a linkfarm (see also our our external links guideline), and secondly, you were performing link additions only, which is considered spamming on wikipedia. Please consider adding content, and when your site provides the information, you can use the site as a reference (if it complies with our reliable sources content guideline. Happy editing. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 10:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, could you (also) respond to the report on the wikipedia project on spam, thanks. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 10:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

— Dear Dirk,

Thank you for you reaction and your explanation. It's all clear now! Please accept my appologies for breaking you Guidelines!

Kind regards MarcelB— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.87.215.136 (talk • contribs)

OK, hope to see you around. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 12:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vandals

Hi; ref your block of user:69.150.84.197, check out only edit of user:71.157.162.206. Cheers. --Anthony.bradbury^"talk" 20:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greek Companies List

Dirk Beetstra, thanks for your constructive criticisms about my wiki editing. Cheers, FC Freecyprus 02:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I see you have engaged again in not discussing but just reverting the edits to a version you created, and have now again been blocked. Please, next time your edits get reverted by an established editor, realise that there may be that one of our policies or guidelines say something about it, and that there is then always a talkpage to discuss your edits first (or the talkpage of the reverting editor). --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 12:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spam-blacklist

Thanks for catching and fixing my mistake! --Ed (Edgar181) 23:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From me as well. I was still trying to find the list. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 23:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If I heard correctly, someone went 'ballistic' on one of the IRC channels. If you are not sure, just post on the talkpage, it will be handled then (by the way, it is best to post there anyway, so that other admins know why it was on the blacklist. Also posting on WT:WPSPAM is a good plan, we, and the bots, monitor that closely). --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 23:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll do that next time. --Ed (Edgar181) 00:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Technology Ribbon

COI bot wanted you to have this. ;)--Hu12 23:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On behalf of COIBot, thanks. I just finished some work on the linkwatchers, we are now watching 722 wikis. It is time Shadow1 takes over the linkwatchers again and puts them on the database. COIBot is parsing these reports and is also doing his regular job on the 10 biggest wikipedia's .. I hope you have phun looking at all the reports COIBot is now generating. Cheers again, and hope to see you around! --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 23:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External link on Kidney

Hello, I am not necessarily disagreeing with your removal of my link on the "Kidney" page. I guess I really didn't understand that a resource for kidney patients - a forum - would not be okay. With 300,000 people on dialysis in the US alone, we are constantly asked for help reaching people who have nowhere to go for answers and support. I am a moderator of a dialysis forum and administrator for a living donor forum, but I am still learning. (I am also a mother of a 21 year old daughter who got a kidney transplant from an altruistic donor 7 months ago.) Is there no context where wikipedia would be better with these links? Finding others who had similar experiences saved us! Thanks for listening. Regards, Karol Franks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Okarol (talk • contribs) 00:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid that the link is discouraged by quite a number of policies. E.g. our policy on what wikipedia is not states (in the 'Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files') 'mere collection of external links'; our external links guideline discourages forums (in Links normally to be avoided). For sites where you are involved in, also our conflict of interest guideline is of relevance, and for this site (http://www.ihatedialysis.com) I would also guess that this section of our policy on what wikipedia is not is of interest. I do understand that many of these links can be of service to readers, but that is more the function of a search engine, wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia. Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 07:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

bestmootcourtprograms.com

thank you for your help in the other forum!Jimdugan 15:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

do you think I have a better shot of getting an article titled "Best Moot Court Programs (United States)"? I had drafted one previously. do you know how I start/find the discussion on how to reinstate a previously deleted article? if I draft a new one with wikipedia guidelines in mind, will it be deleted automatically if Jimdugan is considered a "spammer" Jimdugan 15:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Err, you might want to have a look at Wikipedia:Deletion review, though recreation is also possible. What you can do, is first make the article outside of article space (e.g. User:Jimdugan/Best Moot Court Programs (United States). You can then ask someone who is knowledgeable in the subject (find a regular editor in the same field) to review it. Be sure to have good third-party references in the article (to external sites, reliable sources, not published by the subject of the article itself). In that case you stand a reasonable chance. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and when other editors think it is a good article, you can use the move tab to move it to the right position. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for your consideration in taking the time to offer me this advice. i will give it a try (and probably pester you with questions). i'll be in touch! Jimdugan 16:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RA DJ

I completely respect and appreciate the standards that need to be maintain. I just think you administration should be looking at the information from an informational point of view. The content is undeniably far more important and useful to anyone on the said subject.

I am personally very disappointed the 'RA DJ' template was removed without question. Especially since the artists in question are managing and updating the content on their RA DJ Pages.

It's a shame.

Does it help that RA's DJ Pages are top ranking in google for the search results due to the unique informational value?

Paulclement 12:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have done some research, and you really seem to have a conflict of interest here (alexa says you are the site owner). I am sure your site may be of good value to wikipedia, but as it stands now you are breaking quite a number of policies and guidelines. I really suggest you take this up with an appropriate wikiproject, discuss with them, and when they endorse your site, and/or a template that can be used. Just as a remark, as we are writing an encyclopedia here, and repository, I would suggest you provide contents with references to the pages on wikipedia, not external links only. External links hardly improve the wikipedia, but merely tunnel people away from this encyclopedia (and that suggestion gets bigger since you appear to have a conflict of interest).

I am afraid that the Wikipedia:Google test does not prove a lot. Hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 12:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clinical response. I unfortunately don't have time to dig around the wikiproject to try to find how to discuss something with someone about something that is so simple. I'll leave it. - Paulclement 13:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry that I sound clinical. I do not have time to dig around and merit the actual site. I do see that you were performing a handful of link additions, and were trying to get your site on several pages. I am sorry, but the guidelines and policies are just against building linkfarms, however appropriate the links are. They all suggest to discuss it first. Hope you find your way around anyway. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 13:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MidwayUSA

Hey, thanks for catching that. - CobaltBlueTony 14:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. An editor with an apparent conflict of interest put the link on the monitorlist of COIBot, resulting in your edit being reported. So I checked. Hope to see you around. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 14:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ciffob - COI?

Hi Dirk

Could you take a look at the contributions by Ciffob (talk · contribs)? This seems a bit more complicated than what I usually deal with. I've reverted the spam addition to Packaging and labelling [2], but I am not very sure how to deal with the captions on Silica gel and Desiccant. Thanks! --Rifleman 82 04:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted, and reported it here. Blatant company spam, especially since there is already a similar, non-advertising, image in place. I am still surprised sometimes that people, maybe while they are thinking that they are improving the wikipedia, add typical commercial links to a neutral, informative page. Don't they realise that that edit they perform may be a bit suspicious, as there are no commercials there, and that there may be a reason for that? Ah well. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 08:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah right. Thanks! --Rifleman 82 08:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why you send me a Warning... Legit link that isn't posted.

I posted a link for the MSDS information on Silica Gel Packets, follow the link and you will see it's legit. So why you send me a black list warning and warn me?

Isn't the MSDS good information to this subject?

Arcarocket