Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

September 16

Buying a digital camera

I am looking into buying a digital camera. I want one for general use, recreational picture taking, no hard core photography. What are some good features to look for/what is available? I'm looking to spend a couple hundred dollars tops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.53.182 (talk) 01:05, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Decide what you're gonna use it for: snapshots? indoors? landscape? sports? wild life? fashion statement? For most purposes megapixels aren't very important, a 6MP DSLR will smoke a 12MP point and shoot any day; If you want to shoot sports or wild life you might want one with a long zoom, like one with 10x optical zoom with the longest 35mm equivalent zoom to be 200mm+ and with vibration reduction or image stabiliser or similar technology; Indoors you might want to find one that has good wide angle and large aperture (f/2.8 - f/3.5) with preferably a pop-up flash (so you can add a bounce card to create bounced flash); For landscape, forget about point and shoots or even DSLR and go get yourself some medium format gear; For fashion statement, that's something I have no idea about and I can't help you here. --antilived^{T | C | G} 02:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Medium format gear?? You must have missed the last part of the question: "I'm looking to spend a couple hundred dollars tops." I don't think you can get reasonable "medium format gear" for less than a few thousand. I agree with the other recommendations though. Megapixels don't matter; optical (not digital) zoom, image stabilization, and maximum lens aperture do. —Keenan Pepper 04:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Heh if you need medium format gear you probably wouldn't be asking here. --antilived^{T | C | G} 04:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, the biggest problem for non-specialised photography is light sensitivity. At least, for indoor photography. Flash often gives very ugly effects, with hard shadows and a limited range (anything beyond 5 m or so is dark). A strong flash that can be pointed at the ceiling (or bounced off some reflector, as Antilived suggests), would probably be the best solution because the other two options are expensive; a big sensor, as is only (?) found in SLRs, or a big and/or very clear (Zeiss?) lens. But do try to get a big aperture (low f-number). Unless you won't do much indoor photography. Note, though, that photographing with a big aperture gives less depth of field, ie, you can only get objects at a certain distance sharp (worse, the closer it is). But a blurry background is not as bad as an underexposed background. It can even be used to good effect, as the photos in the article show. DirkvdM 08:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh yea and also look for an easy to use interface, such as one that has RGB histogram, buttons for WB, ISO and a bright, high resolution screen. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:45, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

www.dpreview.com provide indepth reviews of cameras and is a good place to look. I would say that for general non-hardcore photography all you need is a Point & Shoot camera. The Fujifilm Finepix range is very good in this field, being compact, good quality and decent value. Above all go for quality over 'gadgetry' and go for useability over 'stylishness'. If you can try go to some stores and hold ones you are interested in your hands, you'll soon get a feel for how ergonomic (is that the right word?) they are. ny156uk 10:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Another good site is www.steves-digicams.com. DirkvdM 17:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Not wanting to derail, but an issue I've had with my relatively-cheap digital camera (I think it is a Canon Digital ELF or something like that) is that things near the edge of the frame sometimes get distorted. People's heads, for example, if too close to the edge of the frame, will get a "pulled" look — stretched out. Is this a factor of this type of camera, my particular settings, general lens issues, etc.? Easy correction? Just curious, while we're on the topic. --24.147.86.187 13:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like you're getting barrel distortion. Try not to take things like portrait shots at the extreme ends of the zoom range, if you go for a mid-zoom (yes, position your body, don't just rely on the zoom) you'll minimise this and get an overall better shot. --jjron 08:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I had what I suspect were about the same requirements you do. I made a list of them, went to a Micro Center, and reeled them off to a clerk. He handed me a Canon PowerShot A510 and said "Buy this", and I did (for about $200), and I've been very happy with it. --Steve Summit (talk) 03:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that approach is that you tell the shopkeeper you don't know what's available, so they can sell you whatever they like, such as a camera that they want to get rid of. It's better to get advise from people who don't have a financial interest in what you buy. I suppose the makers of stevesdigicams and dpreview get their testcameras for free because producers can not afford to not have their camera featured on the site. So you get a much more complete overview than you could ever get at a shop. A disadvantage is that you can't handle the camera, but you can make a selection there and then try those cameras in a shop and decide for yourself. DirkvdM 06:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes, but: I wasn't trying to tell the OP to go to a store to listen to a salesman. I was giving him my recommendation -- and I don't have any financial interest in what he buys at all! --Steve Summit (talk) 06:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I know different people may have different brand biases, but after having dealt with a signficant number of these consumer digicams over the years through work and private use, I now always answer this question the same way. Figure how much you want to spend, and go out and buy the Canon that fits that price (allowing for batteries, recharger and memory card if they're not included or you don't already have them). If you're worried about making a fashion statement, want an extra compact size, and don't mind spending a bit more, look at the Canon Digital IXUS. I've never had anyone tell me I've given them a bum steer, but have had many go back and buy Canon again when it's time to update. (No, I have no vested interest in Canon and am not a salesman). --jjron 08:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I would have said the same thing but suggested Nikon instead of Canon ;-). In any case, I'd play with a bunch of cameras and make sure that the user interface on the camera I purchased allowed me to rapidly set up all the features I wanted to use. There's nothing worse than fiddling with buttons while your subject disappears from view. I'd also make sure that the camera could easily download its pictures to whatever computer/printer/etc. I planned to use. Battery life, storage capacity, and a flexible (capable, fast, wide range) optical zoom lens are also important to me.

Atlant 15:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've got an Ixus too (the old 400MP), and I can indeed recommend it. (Although that doesn't mean all Canons are good.) Actually, all my Wikimedia photos are taken with that Ixus. One warning: it fits in a breast pocket, but if you keep it there while on a hike, sweat might get into it and ruin the display, which makes operation very difficult - I speak from experience. :( My second digital camera was a Nikon Coolpix 5400, and what I liked a lot about that is the swiveling display. It opens new avenues in photography that you'll hate to miss once you've gotten used to it. Actually, I wonder why is the display still attached to cameras? Why not an eyepiece (glasses or something) that communicates with the camera wirelessly?

Oh yeah and concerning batteries, that is also a widely discussed issue. Some prefer the smaller proprietary type, as opposed to the rechargeable AA batteries. I prefer the latter because they're cheaper and if you loose them on a holiday, you can easily buy a new set, even a non-rechargeable set for emergencies (but don't use those normally, because they run dry very fast and will cost you a bundle in the end). What type memory card is relatively unimportant. Even if you already one, because compared to the price of the camera, a 1 GB card (which should be more than plenty) doesn't cost much anymore. DirkvdM 17:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

A wireless display (with a separate power supply unit, enclosure, and transmitting and receiving radios) would be much more expensive,albeit nice to have. The bandwidth required for good viewfinder "action" would be impressive as well, maybe beyond the capability of current Bluetooth and Wibree implementations (depending on how much power you're willing to spend on image compression/decompression). And the slower ZigBee protocols would be right out. A display attached by a cable would be much more practical.

Atlant 18:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Martin PBM5 Seaplanes

While attached to VP-50, Feb 1954 - May 1957 I heard a "Sea Story" that has often come to mind and would like to know if it is just that "a sea story" or did it really happen.

The tail goes that a Navy PBM was flying across the southwest when it developed, I think an engine problem. It was believed that the problem was severe enough that it was useless to try getting to a large body of water, so he pilot elected to land, on the sandy desert.

The landing was successful and did no damage to the aircraft.

The engine problem was repaired and the aircraft later made a successful takeoff and flew to its original destination. 13:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)72.161.75.46 (email address removed)

This (a little less than halfway down the page) may be the incident? I'm not surprised that a flying boat could make a successful landing in the desert, btw; even in a landplane, it's preferable to make a forced landing on soft or uneven surface with the wheels up. FiggyBee 13:52, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I've removed your email address so it doesn't get picked up by spam robots. FiggyBee 13:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The sitiuation you are discribing is nearly identical to that of the plot of the old verson of the movie flight of the phoenix. I have no idea wether that was based of of a true story. 03:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC) I cant seem to sign this 03:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Except that it involves a forced landing in the desert, I fail to see how this is anything like the Flight of the Phoenix... FiggyBee 03:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

In that movie (and it's recent remake) they completely cannibalised the original plane to make a new one using the wings and one of the engines). But lots of military "seaplanes" of the era were really amphibious planes with both wheels and floats. It's not so much of a stretch to imagine landing on floats and taking off again on wheels. SteveBaker 19:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Photo from iPod to computer

This is more a cry for help. I have an iPod and alot of photos on it. How do I copy my photos from my iPod to my computer? Do I use a software and if yes, which? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.239.172.228 (talk) 17:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that with the iPod-USB cord you can simply plug the device into your computer and access it as an external hard drive. No special software required, just navigate to My Computer and into the iPod itself. Plasticup ^T/C 17:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. How'd you get the photos on the iPod in the first place? (They don't take photos by themselves, right?) --24.147.86.187 18:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

It may not be as simple as just plugging it in. It depends how the photos were put on the iPod, for example directly using it as an external drive, or using iTunes. If it was done as an external drive it's as easy as Plasticup said. But if you can see them on the iPod itself, then it was probably done through iTunes, which makes it a bit trickier to get them off. ITunes may also have optimised them, which means you won't have them at full res (unless whoever put them on there specified this to be done). To find them on the iPod connect it, browse to it through My Computer (assuming you're on Windows), ensure you are viewing hidden files, and then try to hunt them down through the folder structure. It probably won't be that obvious, and as I said they are likely to be relatively low res. --jjron 08:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Calling all New Yorkers!

Does anyone know which building it is to the left of the Empire State building in this photo? I'm talking about the sleek, shiny one. Thanks! Aviad2001 21:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not a significant or important building. It might be a new co-op. I'll see if I can find anything else. --Nricardo 00:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The user that uploaded that photo is an active editor, you may be able to get the quickest answer by just asking him. Dismas|^(talk) 05:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's the building on 5th Ave., one door south of 33rd and 32nd Sts. on the East side of the Ave. It's a new co-op. Google Map 330 5th Ave. (not sure if that's the address of the building itself), and pan around until you see the building with some constructiony stuff out front. That's it. --Nricardo 10:46, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys! Aviad2001 23:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

How does UK & England School Year/Grade System Compare to US

If someone is in Year 9 In UK or England What grade would they be in if the went to school in the us? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickfran (talk • contribs) 21:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Compare the tables at Educational stages. Year 9 in England would appear to correlate to 8th grade in the US. FiggyBee 22:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Basically, what Americans call kindergarten, Brits call Year 1, so they have years 1-13 rather than K-12. (Britons' "kindergarten" is American "preschool.") -- Mwalcoff 01:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, "kindergarten" is an American term that is very rarely used in this country. It's usually referred to as "nursery school". 80.254.147.52 12:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It's more like a German term :) --85.233.20.194 15:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The above answers relate mostly to the public sector of education in the UK, which generally uses these Years, but in some places the names of the forms are still the traditional ones, leading up to sixth form, so are out of sync with the numbers of the 'Years'. Most British independent schools don't use the Year numbers and simply keep to the traditional form system. Xn4 05:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Plus, when I was at school in UK (at a not-private^* grammar school), we spent our final two years in school in 'sixth year' classes - called 'Lower Sixth' and 'Upper Sixth'. You studied for O-levels in forms 1 through 5 and (optionally) A-levels in the two sixth years before heading off to university.

*The other ikky nomenclature problem is that in the UK, a 'public' school means the exact opposite of what it means in the USA. In the US, a public school is government run and free for everyone - in the UK "public school" is what Americans call a "private school" where you have to pay fees. This hurts my brain! The reason is a historical one - dating back before there were free government-provided schools in the UK. In those days, fee-paying schools were 'public schools' if the general public could enroll their children to go there (paying through the nose for the privilege) or 'private' if they were only there for a particular group of people (such as members of a particular extended family or something). Worse still, the UK term for a fee-paying school is sometimes 'Independent school' - which also clashes with the US 'Independent school district' (ISD) - meaning...yep...a government run school district (albeit run by a small town or city rather than the state or federal government).

SteveBaker 19:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

September 17

Artist PS Wilson

I have an origional chalk drawing by this artist of five Rock Icons of the 70's. Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Marley, Lennon on plain white paper 24"X28". Does anyone know of this artist? Could also be R S Wilson from signiture. Azrider2 00:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, copyright issues are a problem with things like this. Marlith ^T/C 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

With things like asking if we've ever heard of PS Wilson? FiggyBee 05:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

American Pie

What might Don McLean's song American Pie mean. I have seen the previous article and noticed it was unreferenced. That might be the common definition of the song's lyrics. What might be the Wikipedian interpretation of that song? And speaking of which, what is the Wikipedian interpretation of this song. Marlith ^T/C 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought it meant Don McLean was a crotchety folk singer who thought the rock and roll of his day was annoying, and he wanted a return to the "good" music of the 50s. But we're not really supposed to have discussions like on the reference desk. Adam Bishop 01:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The only thing Don McLean has admitted is that the beginning is about Buddy Holly. The rest is usually interpreted by others to be McLean's history of rock music after Holly's death. This page looks at the lyrics line-by-line. -- Mwalcoff 01:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!Marlith ^T/C 02:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

There's an excellent treatment of this question -- including a comment by McLean himself -- at The Straight Dope. --Steve Summit (talk) 03:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Silver Dollar Hotel

I recently come into posession of a brass token approximately 1 and 1/2 inches in diameter imprinted with the words " Silver Dollar Hotel, Denver, Colo" written around the outer perimeter is, "GOOD FOR ONE SCREW" in the center, followed in smaller type, "MADAME RUTH JACOBS, Prop. On the reverse side, with a heart on both sides of the lettering, written in large letters, "GOOD FOR ALL NIGHT". My question is, can you find out if this is a legitimate token or a hoax? Thank you Unkl bill 01:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

It's almost certainly a fake; see [1] for example. You'll find quite a few of them under Coins & Paper Money > Exonumia > Reproductions on eBay. From what I can tell reading around, if it's obviously a brothel token, then it's not real; real brothel tokens were fairly nondescript, and rarely left the establishment (you bought it from the manager, you gave it to the girl, she gave it back to the manager). FiggyBee 05:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's a pretty racy real one with some miles on it: [2]. --Sean 13:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Incidently, there is no Silver Dollar Hotel in Denver, that I can find. However, the Silver Dollar Saloon can be found in Leadville, Colorado. It is a really interesting place, but I don't think it's been a brothel in recent history, if at all. The place around the corner, though, I was told was the longest continuously-operating brothel in Colorado. --Mdwyer 14:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

thanks everybodyUnkl bill 04:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

If you do research you do find a reference to The Silver Dollar Hotel by Jan Mackell, on Pg 62 of Brothels, Bordellos, & Bad Girls: Prostitution in Colorado, 1860-1930. "Other famous red-light establishments of Denver included Ruth Jacobs's Silver Dollar Hotel, ..." May 14, 2013. Chuck C.

Well, after one Google search I came across this article in The Miami News from 1946 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19461117&id=bVAtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A9YFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6255,370397

Apparently the "Silver Dollar Hotel" was a nickname for the Windsor Hotel. H.A.W. Tabor, a silver mining millionaire of the 1880's, had one of the rooms laid with 2,000 silver dollars. Hence, the nickname.

Yearbook software

Assuming cost is no object, what would be the best and/or most powerful softwares for print layout design for a school yearbook? For example, Adobe InDesign, Xpress, etc... I am already very fluent with Adobe Photoshop so I think that InDesign would probably be best in terms of transferring files between the two softwares. Thanks. Acceptable 01:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I (still) use Adobe PageMaker for this very job, which is pretty good with Photoshop. It's still a good program, but this is one of the few things I use it for, so it's not worth me buying anything new. If I was, I would buy InDesign. --jjron 07:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

As a point of interest, not relevent to your question, Meno Recollections offers a yearbook service which prints it and allows people to upload their stuff digitally. It's pretty good - my school used it last year. JoshHolloway 11:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

InDesign is pretty kick-ass. It is not very hard to use and is considerably more robust than PageMaker ever was. I'd probably go with that. Back in the day, when I did yearbook design, I used PageMaker, but I'd have switched to InDesign in a second if it was available. --24.147.86.187 14:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Flickr Pro Account

Do I need a credit card to buy a Flickr Pro Account? Is the Pro Account cheap? Despite this page: http://www.flickr.com/upgrade/. Jet (talk) 04:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid I can't check from work as flickr is filtered. I did however use a credit card and it was only around a tenner for a year, so pretty reasonable. I would try at first with the free account and then consider upgrading only if you really need it. Lanfear's Bane 13:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning keyboards en masse

Hi, I want to clean some 30-50 keyboards. A great undertaking, so advice could be handy. I want to basically just detach all the keys and put them in some water-soap-whatever solution, hoping that three years of uncleanliness will disappear before my eyes. Does anyone have experience with this, that can give me advice on how to proceed? Obviously putting the keyboards themselves in water isn't a good idea. Thanks in advance! 213.161.190.228 07:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

edit: I know very well HOW to detach keys. It's the cleaning process I'm asking about. 213.161.190.228 07:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Slip the keys into a (few) pair of ladies nylons and tie shut, throw in washing machine with a gentle detergent on the gentle cycle, clean. I'm not saying I've done this before but it's the first idea that pops to mind... Dismas|^(talk) 08:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Or one of those little mesh bags that you use to put woollen jumpers in, but I doubt the grime will come out without some good ol' scrubbing. --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Foam cleaner would be the way I'd go. Remove membrane, apply foam, rinse off, dry ... no need to remove several thousand keys. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I clean cat hairs and spilled goo out from between the keys with a thing called a cleaning stick. It gets most of the uckage out dry, but dipped in a little surgical alcohol it will remove almost anything. They come from Lakeland. [3] (this is advertising but I have nothing to do with them!). It means that you don't have to dismantle and reassemble each keyboard, which should compensate for the time needed to clean each keyboard individually. SaundersW 09:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

This has been asked before (except not for 50 keyboards) and the answer was that it was safe to use water, provided it's all dried up before you plug the keyboard in. So just use simple dishwashing liquid. I'd rinse afterwards, though, because I'm not sure what any leftovers might do. DirkvdM 17:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the keycaps could be put into a porous bag and dumped in a dishwasher - the grease-fighting formula of the cleaning liquid should break up the oils binding the dirt to the keys perfectly well. The keyboards themselves should probably be vacuumed clean of dust and fluff and the plastic areas away from the electronics and switches wiped down with an automotive degreaser on lint-free cloths. The worst part is reassembling the keycaps in the correct places at the end. Before you embark on this activity - you should probably make an estimate of the time it's going to take you by timing the effort to do one of them. With keyboards costing as little as $20, it may just be cheaper to toss them all and buy new ones. SteveBaker 18:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Given that a single keyboard has over a hundred keys, you'd be looking at removing and individually replacing 3000–5000 keycaps if you took them off. Depending on the model, however, in many keyboards the only part that could be damaged by a brief immersion in soapy water is the circuit board. So open the backsides of the keyboards, pull out the boards (they'll be attached to the cords) and anything else that falls out (such as the contact sensor sheets) and soak the covers with the keys in place. After a good soak, rinse them, dry them and put the parts back together (preferably the same way as they were). Of course, you should first try this on one keyboard before doing it for all fifty. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Forgot to mention: If your keyboards are like mine, you'll find little rubber caps under each key. There's probably no hope in getting them to stay in place while you soak the keyboard, but fortunately they're all identical, so replacing them is easier than for the keycaps themselves. Just try not to lose any. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone once said here at the ref desk that vacuuming (odd word) electronics can be risky because the nozzle might get statically charged and discharge near the keyboard. Compressed air is supposed to also be potentially harmful because it's so cold (adiabatic expansion). A hand-operated bellow (or what should I call that), like the one photographers use, might be handy. Or a bicycle pump. DirkvdM 06:03, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that concerns over static discharge might be problematic for motherboards and things worth hundreds of dollars - but your typical run-of-the-mill office keyboard costs about $15 to $25 and doesn't use much in the way of high-sensitivity circuitry. The odds of destroying it are probably at least 100:1 against. It's simply not worth bothering about. Cooling the circuitry with a compressed air jet isn't likely to destroy them either - electronics engineers frequently use cans of 'freezer spray' to check for bad circuit joints - those certainly don't destroy the electronics. I think you are being WAY over-cautious over things as cheap and robust as keyboards. This guy has to clean a bunch of them - the effort involved in doing it could easily be worth more than the keyboards themselves - making life harder in order to avoid hundreds-to-one risks is simply not cost-effective. SteveBaker 18:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Why do so many people GUESS answers ? Googling "cleaning keyboards" turns up several excellent sites with detailed answers. Here is a good one. http://www.helpwithpcs.com/maintenance/cleaning-keyboard.htm86.209.158.223 14:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

It's not a guess if you have experience with cleaning keyboards yourself. I've often sprayed them with window cleaner, let it soak for a few minutes, them wiped them down. This may need to be repeated a few times for really filthy keyboards. Still, it's far quicker than removing all the keys. StuRat 21:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Software for Youtube

What is the software that allows you to save a video from youtube? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.83.49 (talk) 13:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Try Moyea FLV Downloader - it's free and it's worked fine for me - [4] Exxolon 14:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Is that legal? Marlith ^T/C 17:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

How about for MacOS? —Tamfang 20:28, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Install Firefox, the Greasemonkey extension, and some user scripts. I believe there are several for downloading YouTube videos, it's quite a common use for Greasemonkey. (What those scripts do is simply pull out the URL of the actual video file from the page source and insert a direct link to it at some convenient spot. You can then click the link to download the video. That's all there is to it. I've written one myself, for a local video sharing site.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Or after viewing the video, look in the temporary internet files folder (TIFF) and the largest file(s) should be the YouTube video file which you can copy to another folder and view using for example Gom Player. Sometimes though the file does not appear in the TIFF folder - I've no idea why. 62.253.52.156 18:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Protesting at the Capitol building

Let me preface this by saying that I am not asking for legal advice; I live nowhere near Washington DC and am not planning a protest of any kind, I just want to understand what happened.

Those of you who are familiar with American news may have seen the story about the 160 protesters arrested at the Capitol building for protesting the Iraq war; the article I read stated that they were arrested (or rather, the police began to arrest them, since some resisted) the moment they touched the steps of the Capitol building after leaping a fence. The thing is, our article says that the Capitol building is open for tours and so forth. Is it illegal to protest on the steps? Was it just that they hopped the fence? Were they arrested for trespassing (on state/national property, isn't it supposed to be owned by the people?) or for protesting (perhaps there's a law about protesting in/around the building itself?)? Kuronue | Talk 14:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the legal argument that will be made was that these protesters violated the permit that had been issued for the march. Whether this argument stands up in court is something we'll eventually see; many such arrests are never prosecuted because the prosecutors choose not to stand behind such charges. But when the police can't find actual crimes to charge you with, they can always charge you with the "Holy Trinity": 1) Disobeying (the orders of a police officer); 2) Resisting arrest; and 3) Simple assault, even if it's your nose assaulting the officers' fists.

I was there, BTW, although I chose not to participate in the civil disobedience. Attorneys/legal observers for the protesters were also present as were hundreds of video cameras on all sides of the matter. Even so, one thing I can assure you of is that you'll need to scour the media to find accurate coverage of the protest or its legal aftermath.

Atlant 15:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

For these sorts of "crimes", the police do not intend to punish the offenders by trying them in court and fining/imprisoning them. The intent is generally simply to arrest the people to get them out of the way and prevent undue civil unrest - so it should come as no surprise that charges are often dropped and these people are typically released a few hours to days later. This is a cheap solution to a tricky problem. Finding the evidence to prosecute these people might well be quite hard to find. SteveBaker 17:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Precisement. Your rights are only violated for a little while, ehh?

Atlant 18:37, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me if you can prove that the fuzz arrested you with the intent not to prosecute, you've got a prima facie case of false arrest. —Tamfang 00:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

What's the scope of police officers' power to give orders in an allegedly free country? —Tamfang 03:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

THAT, of course, is the interesting question. Okay, they established a "police line". On whose authority? With what cause? And what about all those tourists who were being allowed right into the Capitol building on this same day? Did the anti-war protesters (citizens and constituents) give up some right that is still maintained for the tourists (including foreign nationals)?

There's lots here to think about/litigate about.

Atlant 13:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• They must have been outside a First Amendment Zone, which tend to be at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. --Sean 19:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The New York Times says they were arrested for "illegally crossing a police line." -- Mwalcoff 22:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The U.S. Supreme Court, even during the Nixon Presidency, upheld the right of the people to peaceably assemble to petition their elected representatives for redress of grievances. They recognized that was a part of freedom and democracy, which distinguished the U.S. from totalitarian regimes. At the same time the government has had a long tradition of agents provocaveurs infiltrating the demonstrators to attempt to get them to attack police or cross the inevitable police lines. The government has been very shy of public presence in public structures such as the White House or Capitol since 9/11, much more so than during the Civil War or World War II. Edison 01:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

European Currency

I once read or heard a story that sometime in the 1900's one of the Europen countries had changed its currency several times (possibly in one year) to discourage hording and encourage circulation of wealth ... It worked something like this: The reserve bank announced a date on which the old currency would become redundent and would be replaced by a new currency ... also, the new currency was a perctage lesser then the existing one ... the old currency was worthless the day after the deadline ... can someone confirm this and give more details!

41.240.37.183 14:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC) M.Hoosen Essof {Email removed to prevent spam} --Alphazulu 14:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Russia did something like what you describe with the rouble, and not all that long ago, though it was about new banknotes rather than a new currency. The deadline was only a week or two after the announcement. I wouldn't say the true purpose was "to discourage hording and encourage circulation of wealth" (what on earth is wrong with hoarding cash? - and most governments love it, as it gives them the chance to issue more). It was more about (a) cancelling as much as possible of the Russian government's liability to honour its banknotes and (b) making life difficult for those holding large amounts in cash which they couldn't account for, whether criminals or merely tax-evaders.

Because of speedy hyper-inflation, or more ordinary long-term inflation, several European countries replaced their currency during the twentieth century in a way nearer to what you describe. They generally allowed a fair time for people to change their old cash into new, but sometimes most denominations of the old currency were already all but worthless because of hyper-inflation. Xn4 05:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

In situations where the value of money is increasing (deflation - the opposite of inflation) there is benefit to individuals to hold on to raw cash rather than to spend it or invest it. However, if everyone does this, then there is no money available to fund new projects and manufacturers will find it hard to sell goods in a situation where prices are dropping. I too have heard of countries that periodically invalidated the old currency - forcing people to trade it for new banknotes. Placing a limit on the amount that can be traded forces people to spend their hoarded cash or lose it. Either way, that's a good thing for the general economy (although not so great for the individual). The trouble is that I can't remember any specific country where this happened. The hyperinflation case is something a little different than the OP is requesting. The other case when currency has to be turned in is the recent situation where countries in Europe switched from their local currency to the Euro - or when the British switched over to decimal coinage. But neither of those are precisely what the OP requires. SteveBaker 15:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

There's some truth in this - "where the value of money is increasing... there is benefit to individuals to hold on to raw cash rather than to spend it or invest it. However, if everyone does this, then there is no money available to fund new projects..." This was very true in the days when money took the form of precious metals (and banknotes which represented precious metals stored somewhere). We know the opening-up of new gold-fields boosted the world's economies. Now that money is simply created out of thin air by printing presses, it's easier for governments to overcome shortages of cash in circulation. Of course, if they go too far, they fuel inflation. Xn4 03:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

railway semaphores

Why did I.K. Brunell on GWR railways use semaphores which indicate clear by placing the semaphore's arm in a downward posistion. This way of signalling involves a more expensive constrction and is more prone to failures. It is therefore that signalling with the arm upward for clear has overtaken Brunell's way of signalling on all other railway lines. Wally. 82.173.141.164 14:14, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

If the arm has a counter-weight (which it really should in order to minimise the forces needed to move it) then I don't see why it's either more expensive or more failure-prone either way around. You can still make it 'fail-safe' by making the counter-weight be a little heavier than the arm. I would say that the GWR was is counter-intuitive because when it's down it looks like it's kinda barring your way and when it's up it's letting you through - but that's really irrelevent since the only people who care about it are the train drivers and they learned it the way it was. I don't know why one system won over the other - but clearly both systems could not safely co-exist. SteveBaker 17:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

"Down" for "clear" is unsafe because ice and snow can build up on the longer signal arm, overwhelming any action to raise it to the "stop" aspect.

Atlant 18:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

see: Abbots Ripton rail disaster.—eric 19:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Surely ice and snow could freeze the arm in the up position as well... Plasticup ^T/C 20:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Not so much freeze it in place as weigh it down. I could imagine that being a problem. If you have a long signal arm and a short, heavy counterweight - then much more snow/ice can accumulate on the signal arm and the longer moment would compound that problem to the point where the arm would be too heavy to lift. Then it would show "clear" when it's not clear - which would be "A Very Bad Thing". SteveBaker 22:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't find any indication that any british railway at the time used semaphores with a vertical aspect to indicate "stop". After Abbots Ripton in 1876, the Great Northern Railway, the Lancashire, Derbyshire and East Coast Railway, the Taff Vale Railway, the Barry Railway, and the Belfast and Northern Counties Railway began using Edward French's "somersault signal", but still used a vertical aspect to indicate clear. Other railways, including Isambard Kingdom Brunel's Great Western Railway continued to use the "lower-quadrant" semaphore with an internal pivot in a slotted post. According to this page, the GWR did not begin installing semaphores until 1865, by which time semaphores were in widespread use on other lines.—eric 20:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

O.K., found some more, around 1919 british railways began installing "upper quadrant" semaphores, with horizontal and up angled 45 degree aspects, which would become the standard on all lines except for the GWR, which continued to use strictly "lower quadrant" semaphores.(Ellis, Hamilton (1959). British Railway History. p. 293) According to this google books result, the Institution of Signal Engineers in Britain recommended against the adoption of "upper quadrant" signals in 1924.((—eric 21:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The IRSE recommended against the adoption of three-position semaphores (which were of the upper quadrant type), not upper quadrant signals per se. It was this decision that cleared the way for the widespread introduction of (two-position) upper quadrant semaphores in Britain. Signalhead 22:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the trouble of diplaying all this information. However it doesn't really answer the question "why" I.K. Brunell choose this way of signalling. It obviously wasn't all that wonderful because no other railway adopted his version of signalling. Wally 82.173.141.164 15:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

If you'll admit a rather non-specific but pragmatic answer, you may find that they did it simply because, before things become standardised, people tend to try to do things every way possible. It is only with very, very careful consideration ahead of time or the acquisition of practical, sometimes painful experience that it becomes clear why one way is better than another. And even then, sometimes VHS wins over Beta and PCs win over Macs.

Atlant 15:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Or indeed, standard gauge wins over broad gauge. DuncanHill 15:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You are missing the point that the lower quadrant type of semaphore signal had once been standard across all British railways. In fact, that had been a requirement of the Board of Trade. From the 1920s, upper quadrants began to replace lower quadrant signals, that is apart from on the GWR, which stuck with its lower quadrants. In any case, Brunel's signal was the disc and crossbar - the GWR was one of the last railways to adopt semaphore signals. Signalhead 16:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Stock market data

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/overview/default.stm On data like this, what do the figures to the left of the green/red up/down arrows mean?----anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.51.149.80 (talk) 18:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

That's how much the price has changed (in pence for the FTSE), the little arrows indicate whether it is a rise or a fall. DuncanHill 18:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

THE MARSHALL CASE?

I'd like, if possible, to explore the Marshall case - somewhere in the '80s or early '90s. A father of two boys [don't remember if they were twins] refused to allow his sons to recite the scouting oath, because it contained the phrase "to God and my country" - and the father was agnostic. I think I have that right, but I can't seem to find a link to it. Any help would be appreciated ...

MRobertFlick 20:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the name was Randall. See Boy Scouts of America membership controversies#Litigation over the membership policies. --LarryMac | Talk 20:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it definitely happens that they'll kick you out for not reciting the oath. My son was kicked out (well, at least they politely suggested that he might not 'fit in' and would be happier in another organisation) because he refused to recite the oath (I didn't tell him not to - he just felt that he couldn't do it). I didn't take them to court over it because they are a private organisation and as far as I'm concerned they are allowed to make whatever weird-assed rules they like about reciting whatever they like. IMHO, it's their loss. There have been multiple cases about not accepting kids who claim to be gay also...that's something I could imagine might be illegal - but I guess they got away with it somehow. SteveBaker 22:24, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

You could always advise your son to say "to Dog and my county"...I had great fun mangling the Pledge of allegiance in school ("...damnation, Underdog, invisible, with licorice and custard for all"). This seemed more sensible than my first thought about how to resist this attempt at indoctrination (holding my hand up in a Nazi salute while saying the pledge). This all reminds me of one of my favorite song lyrics ("pledge allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer"). StuRat 21:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

so your advice then, is that when we find someone who takes a personal oath seriously, we immediately attempt to break them of that nasty, nasty habit? rock on! Childhoodtrauma 17:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This seems to satisfy the kid's abhorrence at taking the oath while at the same time not pissing off the authority figures and incurring their wrath. It's important to pick your battles (so that you can win them), and, in this case, you don't have to submit either, but only need to appear to. StuRat 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

National Guard/Reserve

Is it still possible to be in the Guard and work weekends only and only be committed for a year or two, and still retain and work full time at my regular job, and not get sent to Iraq/Afghanistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 22:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

(How CURIOUS that my earlier answer disappeared! Reinstating it...)

Atlant 00:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. That would be like giving away free money without any actual work from you're side (at least, that's what I think). --PolarWolf ( sign ) 00:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any US military service which will give recruits a written, binding promise not to be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. This might make sense, however, as they could then replenish their ranks at home and send everyone currently on the home front to those two countries. Warning: Don't listen to what recruiters say, they regularly lie to get you to sign on the dotted line, and only things which are in writing are legally binding when they later deny what they promised. 20:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

savings bond

is there any way to get a savings bond with pre-tax money, separate from an IRA or 401(k)

Possibly, depending on your location, but those tend to be special purpose investments, for education expenses, medical expenses, or gifts to family members, with strict rules governing each. StuRat 20:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

pre-tax money

what kind of investment accounts (not material investments) can I push pre-tax money into, besides 401(k) or an IRA?

Cafeteria plans. —Steve Summit (talk) 00:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

madame X

how much does she make per year? I can't find it on her site

http://www.myopenwallet.net/

• Try sending her an email or leaving a comment on her blog. Bear in mind this info is confidential and she might not want to disclose it (she might just give a range or estimate). Since she appears to be anonymous unless some random reader is privy to who she really is, knows how much she earns and is willing to answer here (an unlikely set of circumstances) there's probably no way we can help you. Exxolon 02:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

so you couldn't find it on her site? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 02:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't appear to be on her site, which is unexpected seeing as the entire blog is obsessed with her accumulation of material wealth. Plasticup ^T/C 22:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Profits

How much would you estimate Saudi Arabia and Russia make per year from revenues of oil including private companies? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.127.96.178 (talk) 23:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Saudi Aramco is the only oil company in Saudi Arabia (i.e. there are no private companies) and its revenue is undeclared. It is estimated at US$150-350 bn Plasticup ^T/C 00:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The best that I can find on Russia is that it is the world's eight largest oil producer. Presumably measures of volume correlate to revenue. Plasticup ^T/C 00:48, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

However, Russia sells petroleum products at considerable discounts to many "friendly" neighbors, as a means of political control ("do what we say or we charge the full market price"). This likely reduces profitability. StuRat 20:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't most oil producing countries do that? Or at least artificially reduce domestic prices. Plasticup ^T/C 22:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps many do to some extent, like Venezuela selling cheap oil to Cuba to prop up Castro and ensure that it remains a totalitarian communist nation. The US is a major producer, but doesn't sell it at a discount, as individual companies own the oil, and they want to maximize profits. (Yes, oddly enough the US does export oil, even though it is a net importer.) StuRat 05:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

September 18

Scholarships

Would it be plausable for me to apply for every single applicable scholarship that requires an essay to be written about a subject and sent in? I'd imagine that with all those applications, one may actually go through... I don't know much about the subject, so excuse me if the question is a bit foolish. Яussiaп F 01:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm no expert but I would suppose how many there are, whether each required an individually written essay, how long the essays have to be and how much time you have, how creative you are and how dedicated you are. Exxolon 01:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd be willing to spend many evenings on the essays, I'd apply only for the ones that require individually written essays, I have a lot of spare time, and I consider myself quite good at writing. Яussiaп F 02:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We need someone with more knowledge than me here then. Applying common sense would suggest applying for all the ones you qualify for with the caveat that it's possible you could lessen your chances if there is any kind of cross-referencing of applications either within institutions or on a wider scale. Exxolon 02:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

• No matter how good at writing you are, applying to more institutions means you can dedicate less time to each single essay - which will lessen its quality. - Mgm|^(talk) 08:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi... are you assuming that every college would require an essay about the identical subject ? If so, go ahead and write a super essay and then individualise it for each application. However, it is far more than esssay writing that will get you an interview, let alone a place. You need to consider the whole of each application and target each upon an individual college/place/scholarship. Hard work, yes. But given basic talent a place should be available.86.209.158.223 14:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

It's got to depend on where your skills lie compared to the standard required. Obviously, the art of judging an essay and assigning it a score is not an exact science. If your writing skills (and other qualifications) are borderline for the required standard - then it may be that trying lots of places will just randomly put you over the standard in one or two places. But if your level is sufficiently poor that not even a small amount of random variation will be enough to push you over the standard - then as others have pointed out, spending more time doing a really excellent job on just one essay might be more productive. It's really hard to know which is best. SteveBaker 15:03, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd say definitely go for it. From my experience it's a good idea to apply for as many scholarships as you are eligible for. Depending on the number requiring essays for which you qualify it might not be reasonable to try for all of them, but within reason I see no downside to applying for multiple scholarships. Schooling is expensive, good luck! 38.112.225.84 17:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you do a cost/benefit analysis on each. I found many $500 scholarships that required essays, interviews, etc., which simply weren't worth the time you'd have to put in for the tiny chance of winning. StuRat 20:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

savings bonds ii

my state tax rate is 5%, and since savings bonds are state-tax free (and compounded semi-annually), does that mean my savings bond effective yield increases by at least 5%? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 03:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

This question might be more appropriately answered on the Mathematics Reference desk, but the quick answer is that the yield should increase by slightly more than 5% over what it would be if you had to pay the state tax on the returns. 152.16.16.75 09:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

But beware the use of the proper base (always an issue with percentages). If you invest $1000 and make 10%, or $100, in a year, the 5% tax would be on the amount made, or $100, not on the entire amount. Thus, you would have $1100 (neglecting both federal and state taxes) versus $1095 (only neglecting federal taxes). So, it's not like you're making 15% instead of 10%, you are making 10% instead of 9.5%. My guess is that you can find an investment with a higher return that more than makes up for being charged state taxes. Inflation also has an effect, as people are normally charged taxes on investment "growth" even if that growth is only keeping pace with inflation. So, to give a thorough answer we would need to know the federal tax rate, any local tax rate, the projected inflation rate, the projected return rates, and any fees associated with the investment. StuRat 20:04, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

so basically what you're saying is that post-tax (state and federal) money is used for the base, and the state-tax free is only on the investment return? How do you know this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 23:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The base for the state taxes is the profit realized that year, not counting inflation (at least in my state). How do I know this ? I have investments and pay taxes, which means I have to fill out the forms and see what they use as the base. StuRat 05:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Dieing with Debt

If I die while in debt, and my next-of-kin can't pay it off, will he go to debtors prison? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.199.246 (talk) 03:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No. As far as I know, there are no debtor's prisons anymore, so tht wouldn't happen. The broader question here may be "will my next of kin be responsible for my debt?" As far as I know - not being an estate lawyer - that wouldn't happen either. If you are in debt when you die, your estate - everything you own - might have to be sold off to repay the debt, but the debt itself wouldn't be transferred. The only exception would be if someone had provided security for the loan, or had co-signed - in that case, they might be liable. But I can't see that a debt could be assigned to someone who had not accepted responsibility for it. I don't know what would happen if you died with an unsecured debt that your estate was not able to pay back; I assume your creditor would lose the money. - Eron ^Talk 03:41, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Makes one wonder why the next of kin gets any surpluses (inheritance). Both or neither, one could say. Another perspective is that I can give someone a gift, but I can't give them a debt. Note that I haven't a clue about actual real-life law. But it would help (for other answerers) if you stated what country you're talking about. DirkvdM 06:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I have the general notion that you can accept or reject the inheritance, but if you take the assets you have to take the liabilities as well. For all I know -- just speculating as a complete non-lawyer here -- there might be some exemptions for personal items of limited cash value.

In some cases you might be forced into a tricky decision, even ignoring sentiment; evaluating the balance of assets and liabilities could involve a serious gamble on future market conditions. --Trovatore 06:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

My layman's understanding of estate law, from a couple personal situations I have been involved in, is that it shouldn't be possible to take both assets and liabilities, as the former would have to be liquidated to cover the latter before any distribution could take place. That's part of the task of the executor: survey the estate, find out what the deceased had and what she owed, pay off the debts, and then distribute anything remaining according to the will. Now, if Great-Aunt Petunia died owing a million dollars, I am not sure if the bank would insist that her tea set be sold off rather than given to her favourite nephew, as stipulated in her will, but it's a safe bet that any money and investments would go to pay off the debt. As would the proceeds of the sale of her house, if any. Wikipedia has an article (of course!) on Abatement of debts and legacies which discusses this issue as well. Looking at it suggests that creditors may have to be satisifed with partial repayment if the estate cannot pay the debts in full - Eron ^Talk 13:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that it is true that you can't inherit both assets and liabilities. As I understand it, you can, for example, inherit a house with a mortgage on it, and just keep making the mortgage payments. I don't believe the estate is necessarily forced to sell the house just because the heirs are unable to pay off the mortgage in a lump sum. I can believe, though, that the mortgage holder might have a say in whether to approve the heirs as creditworthy. And certainly no one should rely on my vague understandings here. --Trovatore 17:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that (in the UK at least) mortgage providers insist upon clients obtaining sufficient life insurance to repay the mortgage in the event of death before the term of the loan. DuncanHill 17:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I never heard of that in the US, but then I don't really know for sure. But in the UK, what about inheriting a (closely held) business? A business is bound to have debts, and there's no guarantee that the rest of the estate will cover them. Is the estate really forced to liquidate the business in that case? I'm almost certain it's not, in the US. --Trovatore 17:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that an inheritor would be forced to liquidate a business, but neither could he be forced to assume a debt. I would expect it's an either/or proposition. In the case of a mortgage held by only the deceased, then there is an agreement between her and the bank: she repays the loan, or the bank takes the house. If she dies without insurance or assets to cover the mortgage, then the house would revert to the bank. They have a lien on it - it isn't hers to be freely willed away. Now, the bank might be willing to allow an heir to take the house, as long as that heir also took out a mortgage. I'm can't see how a mortgage between two parties could be transferred to a third party; if I were the banker, I would object to any such arrangement as I wouldn't know how creditworthy the heir was - I'd want to renegotiate. I assume the same would apply to a business - if you want the business, you take the debts. If you don't want the debts, you don't get the business. - Eron ^Talk 17:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's what I said, isn't it? --Trovatore 17:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

(looks up the page) Er, yes, I guess it is. - Eron ^Talk 17:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe it depends on the structure of the business. If the business holds the debts, then by inheriting the business, you inherit its assets and liabilities -- and also the corporate protection of your personal assets, so you are not personally liable for those debts. If the debts are held by the deceased, then they are covered by sale of other assets (possibly including the business).

As a side note, liquidation of a business to cover debts is not something that's done very often. A functioning business is almost always worth more than the sum of its parts. --Carnildo 21:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone I know was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She has no children. She went out and signed up for half a dozen credit cards and made the most of her last few months, secure in the knowledge that no-one would ever pick up the tab. Then she unexpectedly beat the illness and is in complete remission. Must be one of the few times someone's found a cloud for that rare silver lining. Must say when she told me I found her unethical behaviour shocking, but I can't help a bit of me admiring her gall and another bit thinking she deserved some fun, lol. It's taken a looong time to pay off the debts. Thankfully, she's still well, that I know of. --Dweller 13:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

In an episode of Northern Exposure ("Jaws of Life"), Chris Stevens faced such a cloud: he expected to die young of hereditary hypertension, before all his indiscretions could catch up to him, and then Joel gave him some pills ... —Tamfang 20:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

One way to address concerns about leaving debt to your estate is to purchase credit insurance or mortgage insurance: life insurance policies that pay off the debt if you die. (Disability insurance is also available.) Some credit cards may have similar provisions. There are usually restrictions of course - no coverage for pre-existing medical conditions, suicide, that sort of thing - as with any other form of life insurance. - Eron ^Talk 14:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Louis XV

I have recently been doing my ancestrial line and I have found out that I am related to Louis VIII. I know that he is related to Louis the XV but I am not sure how. Can you please tell me how he is related and if I need to put him into my ancestrial line? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hallieclemons (talk • contribs) 03:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem, Louis XV was a direct descendant in the male line of Louis VIII, with about sixteen generations between them. This line of the Capets weren't all kings, as Henry IV inherited the throne from his distant cousin Henry III as the senior living Capet. He was the eight times great grand-son of Louis IX (Saint Louis), who was the son of Louis VIII. Xn4 04:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Everyone is related to everyone. So as far as it is recorded, if you go up and down the generations, you can always find some lineage connecting you to someone. I did my lineage (in Dutch) (and devised my own coding system) and, even though I knew, it still impressed me how this tree can 'explode' if you follow links in both directions, up and down the generations. DirkvdM 06:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Dirk, either there's a mistake in there or 4 of your relatives were born in the year 1001. I'm guessing you meant 2001. StuRat 19:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yup, there's something wrong there. Hence the double question marks and a note on those lines that I took that literally from a specific source. I've made mistakes with interpretations before, so I don't interpret anymore and give the source instead. It might just mean that the day is known but not the year, so an absurd year is given to make that 'obvious'. I don't know, just a possibility. DirkvdM 07:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Mackenzies Modern Geography

I have in my possesion a lithographic plate titled "A Family of New South Wales" from "Mackenzies Modern Geography" printed late 1780's -1790's. I can't find any reference to this rare publication can anybody help me. The plate shows an Aboriginal family the Father leading the Mother(carrying an infant on her back) with a child boy following, the father is carrying weapons the mother carrying fishing gear and the boy is carrying a fire stick

Maybe A New and Complete System of Modern Geography; Containing An Accurate Delineation of the World, as divided into Empires, Kingdoms, Republics, Colonies etc, with their respective Situations, Extent, Boundaries, Climate, Soil, Agriculture, Rivers, Lakes, Mountains, Forests, Botany, Zoology, Mineralogy, Natural Curiosities, etc Likewise The Civil and Political State of Each Country; embracing the various subjects of population, manners and customs, language, literature, education, cities and towns, edifices, roads, canals, manufactures and commerce; also religion, government, laws, navy, revenues, and political importance with a brief sketch of the origin, history and antiquities of each nation; and an introduction containing a neat and comprehensive system of astronomy and meteorology; forming a complete repository of geographical knowledge including every recent discovery and political alteration. Illustrated and embellished with correct Statistic Tables an accurate and beautiful Atlas and appropriate engravings. Two Volume Set.[5] by Eneas Mackenzie, published 1817?—eric 06:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

After such a title, was there anything left to put in the book ? StuRat 19:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Title pages calmed down after some bright lad invented the dust-jacket. Xn4 00:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Cute hypocricy

I've got stuck in a strange problem.The fact is that girls find me really cute but I have a psychological complex that I am wantedly behaving in a cute manner just to impress them.Please get me out of this as this is proving very detrimental to my personality and thinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk) 07:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Do not request regulated professional advice. If you want to ask advice that "offline" would only be given by a member of a licensed and regulated profession (medical, legal, veterinary, etc.), do not ask it here. If it is impacting on your personality and thinking I suggest you consult your GP in reference to a referral to a psychiatric service. Lanfear's Bane 08:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this is any "professional advice". Yes, you want to impress girls and potentially reproduce and pass on your genes, it's normal, get on with life. --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a vicious cycle. Just to clarify, I assume LB meant General Practitioner when he wrote GP, which is a roundabout way of saying your doctor. I'd second Antlived's take; though hopefully you'll find as you mature that you become less hung up on how other's might percieve you and more comfortable just "being yourself". It's never to early/late to reinvent yourself. Oh, and congratulations on puberty. 38.112.225.84 17:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty much the case with all guys, actually. Except real narcissists and psychopaths; and of course, the girls are attracted greatly to their abnormal lack of reaction. Gzuckier 18:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Dukascopy

Good afternoon, Why such name as Dukascopy is deleted. Come time we created this and now it's deleted. Why??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raiviszile (talk • contribs) 07:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the deletion logs it was deleted due to being advertising and nothing more than a dictionary definition. Dismas|^(talk) 07:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

See WP:SPAM.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

where is the largest Gold trade center located?

--62.84.91.1 15:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean like 33 Liberty Street?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Pecados Ajenos

In Pecados Ajenos, is Gloria a real friend of Natalia Ruiz? Ericthebrainiac (talk contribs) 16:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

This might be better asked on the Entertainment refdesk. FiggyBee 12:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Dinning Out.

Please can you help me with a research on why people dine outside their homes.

Thanks.

Chidi Nwagu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.255.41.170 (talk) 17:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

As a start, you might want to look at the History section of our Restaurant article; it has a bit of discussion on how and why some restaurants came about. It also briefly mentions Taverns as being specifically for travelers, however our tavern article is quite brief and does not address the historical aspect in any depth. --LarryMac | Talk 18:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I can think of quite a few reasons:

1) They don't want to have to cook.

2) They don't want to have to clean up.

3) They can't cook as well as the chefs at the restaurant.

4) They don't want to heat up their house by cooking.

5) They enjoy the social experience of dining out.

6) They want to impress people with the fact that they can afford to dine out.

7) They don't have the time to cook at home.

8) They don't have food at home.

9) They are too far away from home to return to eat.

10) They want to try some new recipes that the restaurant has that they don't have.

11) They are on an expense account, so the meal is free. StuRat 19:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, 12) Their "kitchen" consists of a bar fridge and a microwave, 13) They want to celebrate a special occasion (and, possibly as a result of which, 1-3 and 5 apply), and probably many more reasons. Confusing Manifestation 04:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

13) A large group is getting together and they don't have the room for all the people at one member's house. Reasons 1, 2, and 7 may also apply to this as they may not want to have to cook for such a large group or have the time to do so. Dismas|^(talk) 04:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It's possible the questioner meant dining al fresco. In which case, it's about fresh air etc. There are also downsides, such as insects, vagaries of climate and wind (no, not that kind, the meteorological kind of wind). --Dweller 09:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

John Wayne

Wht didn't John Wayne serve in WWII?129.112.109.250 20:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

There's a section on this in the main article on John Wayne. - Eron ^Talk 20:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia not accepting edits ?!

Why is Wikipedia NOT accepting edits except into the "History section "? 205.240.146.131 22:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The History section shows all the edits done to a page. If you could edit the "History" section, it would sort of defeat it's purpose, as you would be able to erase any edits done to the page. Acceptable 23:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I was editing the article "Bishopville", only that the article changes are NOT there, thus is why I suspect Wikipedia is malfunctioning. 205.240.146.131 00:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Now the changes appear, thus I suspect that Wikipedia has had a meltdown. Seen the molten mess on the floor. 205.240.146.131 00:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

As much as we say Don't worry about performance, there have been a couple server issues in recent times, including delays in updating the "Recent Changes" and user's Watchlists. If something is happening to delay History updates, it's probably worth dropping a note at Wikipedia:Village pump/Technical. Confusing Manifestation 04:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikia skins

Whats with all the new skins on Wikia? Nearly every Wikia wiki has gotten a new skin when I last went to them, about a few weeks ago. The sidebar is really annoying and takes up to much space. Is there anyway to change the skin without having to make an account? 67.169.185.206 23:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't wikia have somewhere you can ask this. Wikipedia != Wikia. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

September 19

"Pushing up daisies"

Where did the saying "Pushing up daisies" originate from and what is its background story? I think it means dying. Acceptable 02:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It means "dead and buried," as when a body decays into fertilizer and feeds the flowers. No idea where it came from, though. --Masamage ♫ 02:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"Pushing up daisies" may have come into the language during the Great War. The Oxford English Dictionary gives a poem by Wilfred Owen as the first use in print - see A Terre (being the philosophy of many soldiers) (1917/18). The OED also says that "under the daisies" was being used as a euphemism for 'dead' from the middle of the 19th century. Xn4 02:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Earlier, "pushing up daisies" was first heard around the start of the American Civil War according to Wright, John D. (2001) The Language of the Civil War.—eric 03:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It's also an expression in French, but I'm not sure from what year it dates. · AndonicO ^Talk 02:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Bumper cars, the subways, Ozone?

Please note the following scenes: =sitting in bumper cars, bumping around =traveling the NYC or other subway system

I've noticed an odor, quite pronounced in each of these situations, and not the kind caused by poor hygiene, bad cleaning, etc. Its a musty kind of smell. My question: Is that odor Ozone? i.e does the arcing of D.C. somehow cause Ozone production in those environments as noted. Thanks for your insight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.147.36.50 (talk) 02:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It is quite possible that the electrical arcing in the two situations would produce ozone enough for you to smell it. You might also smell the electric motor windings and lubricants which get warm in operation and may give off fumes. Edison 03:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, electrical arcing is one of the more popular ways to manufacture ozone. You run oxygen between two plates, and send electrical arcs between them. This apparently fuses the some O2 molecules into O3 molecules. --Mdwyer 22:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

stock exchange

why are bulls & bears terms used in stock market. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.62.79.3 (talk) 03:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Check out Market trends#Etymology. Confusing Manifestation 04:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

live check

I have a live check worth a good bit, and I want to deposit it in my bank which doesn't have a branch anywhere near me. Can I mail it to them to deposit in my account? Is this risky, what if it gets lost?

To deposit it, you must sign the back of the check. If it gets lost with your signature, there isn't nothing preventing someone else from cashing it. If there is no way to get to your regular bank, I'd switch banks. Barring that, I'd probably go to a supermarket, have them cash the check, while there I'd then buy a money order and then send that to the bank. Although, I'd probably contact my bank before proceeding with any of this as they may have a simpler solution. Dismas|^(talk) 04:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Assuming you have an ATM card, I wonder if you could use a deposit-taking ATM? I've only deposited at the ATM in front of my bank, so I'm not sure of the details of depositing at an ATM elsewhere.

A quick Google search found some generic instructions on how to make deposits by mail, with advice to write "For Deposit Only" along with the endorsement, and mail it with a filled-out deposit slip from the back of your checkbook. --Bavi H 05:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Since you say "check" I assume you are in the US. In the UK I regularly mail cheques to my bank (with a paying in slip) and never had any problems. However, it's a good idea to make a note of the cheque number and account number etc in case it gets lost. I have never heard of having to sign the back (though I recall Bart Simpson expecting to get Krusty's autograph by sending him a check); presumably this is a US thing.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

In the U.S., we have to sign the back of the check in order to deposit or cash the check. On most checks there is even a small line drawn across the end of the check above which we are to sign. The signature goes across one short end of the check. Specifically, if you were to take the check, while looking at it's face, in your right hand and flip it over so that the end that was in your left hand is now the top, that is the end that gets signed. The end that was in your left hand. Also, if I get a check from person A and I want to use it to pay person C, I can turn the check over in the aforementioned manner, sign it, and then write "Pay to the order of:" and then person C's name. Person C can now sign below their name and cash the check. This is a two party check and many places will not accept two party checks. Dismas|^(talk) 09:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

You can certainly deposit cheques (or checks) in ATM's that belong to your bank - but which are not outside your branch. SteveBaker 14:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

In addition to the security steps others have suggested, I would recommend not sending the check through the ordinary mail. Instead, I would choose a delivery service that allows tracking of the envelope, a signature by the bank employee receiving the envelope, and possibly insurance of the contents. Most national postal services offer such a service, or you could send your envelope through a private courier that does. 192.251.134.5 15:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Of course you could always open a local bank account to cater for this eventuality. If you then still wanted to money to go into your main account you could probably do the transfer on line.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Above your signature write "FOR DEPOSIT ONLY at Bank Name; ABA No. 1234567890; Acct. No. 987654321". —Nricardo 02:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Lilliputian breasts and the bras that bind them

I've scanned through the relevant articles on bras and bra size measurements and such but haven't been able to find what I'm looking for. I've tried looking at the Playtex web site but it's flash based and therefore I can't access it from here at work. (I'm also partially asking here at the ref desk since I don't know what I'll stumble across while on a computer at work and don't want to have someone catch the wrong image over my shoulder) So, on to the question... Do small breasted women wear bras? According to our articles here, sizes exist for A cups but I'm not sure if they are everyday use sorts or part of a lingerie set. I don't really see the use of wearing one on a day to day basis since there isn't really anything to support. So, what reason is there for a small breasted woman to wear a bra if they indeed wear them? And since it's on my mind... Is the term "flat chested" pejorative? Dismas|^(talk) 05:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Even if the woman has very small breasts, wearing a bra can avoid nipples being visible through their shirt. --124.254.77.148 07:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Very young girls wear training bras, which are designed for the flat-chested. Presumably there's something similar for adults. --Masamage ♫ 07:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Bras don't necessarily hide nipples. Depends on the type. I've never really worn a small bra - my breasts were at least b-cup before I ever wore them - but now at D-cup size, I still get embarrassing nippleage even with my bra. Speaking of my breasts.. *goes to ask a question* Kuronue | Talk 21:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"Flat chested" is a little pejorative: "small breasted" is nicer and not euphemistic either. There are also bras that have no cup at all, such as this one by Calvin Klein. As pointed out above, a bra can hide the nipples, and it can also stop them chafing against a shirt. SaundersW 08:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Even small breasts need support after gravity has done its work. Furthermore a lot of women get smaller breasts after breast-feeding and even though the breasts are small, they are not firm, which can be quite uncomfortable, especially when running or dancing. Furthermore, a lot of small-breasted women wear bras because it makes their breasts look slightly bigger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lova Falk (talk • contribs) 10:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I prefer the phrase, "On the A-Team". --Sean 16:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

In my experience small breasted women usually wear bras. It's possibly as much psychological as physical, i.e., it's a form of underwear so it makes them feel fully dressed, and given that our society says that women wear bras, psychologically they want to wear one to feel like a woman. --203.164.131.137 12:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Wy would women want to suppress their nipples? They are a salient feature of the female breast and should be flaunted! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.4.191 (talk) 00:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

For the same reason that they wear any clothes at all. Plasticup ^T/C 02:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

GIRLS

Why do girls like tall guys?218.248.2.51 06:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)Ecclesiasticalparanoid

Well, remember, not all girls do! For those who do, it's largely cultural; we're told that tall men are desirable, so we believe it. For some, though, it's just a matter of personal preference; for instance, I like being able to hide warmly in my husband's arms and under his chin, although I didn't seek that out deliberately. Anyway, it would be more awkward for a guy to hug a woman whose chest was at his face-level. --Masamage ♫ 07:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Though I'm sure the guy wouldn't mind ;) --124.254.77.148 08:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember seeing an interview with Julie Strain which she ended with "Come up and see me sometime, it's worth the climb" Gzuckier 15:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

as someone who's 6'5" and remained single until he was 28(!) I can categorically say that girls don't always like a guy just because he's tall. There's a lot more to it than that. 09:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.104.131.135 (talk)

IIrc, a few studies have been done which correlate height with success in business, etc. So it's not just girls. i figure some deep rooted primate psychology thing.Gzuckier 14:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I recall seeing that somewhere. Also, a study correlating salary to height; the taller you are the more you make...Go figure. 38.112.225.84 14:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Most straight women I know don't really care about the guy's actual height, only that he's taller than she is. It makes them feel less feminine (or that he's less masculine) to be bigger than her guy. Not all women feel that way, I'm sure, but everyone I've discussed it with does. --Sean 16:22, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Sean has it right- most of my girl friends say that they prefer guys that are taller than them, but not necessarily "tall". I myself prefer guys who are just taller than me. It makes us girls feel more feminine and we fit great under their arms :) But, I do have a friend who likes shorter guys. it's all in preference. --PolarWolf ( sign ) 18:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

3D Tutorials

I have been registered as a new user in the tutorials3D.com (I have received the mail) but I am still not understanding how to carry it on.I doubt wether it is really free or a marketing gimmick because they are advertising their software and asking me to buy their CD's in their mails to me.218.248.2.51 06:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)Ecclesiasticalparanoid

I don't understand. Yes, they are certainly trying to sell you stuff. What are you trying to achieve by registering? Carry what on where? Do you have a question?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Ouch! $110 for a CD-based modeling tutorial! Most 3D packages come with enough tutorials to get you going. If you just want to learn the general techniques (as opposed to a specific 3D package) then grab a copy of blender (software) (which is a free/OpenSource 3D modeling and rendering package) - there are a bazillion tutorials out there for it - and they are all free. SteveBaker 15:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Digital camera: AUTO vs. P

I have a Canon PowerShot S3 IS digital camera, which I have taken over 8800 pictures with in a little more than a year. What confuses me is its photographing modes. We have, in principle, AUTO, P, Av, Tv, and M. AUTO and P means that the camera automatically chooses the aperture and exposure. Av means that I choose the aperture but the camera chooses the exposure. Tv is is the other way around. M means that I choose everything. What puzzles me is why there are separate AUTO and P modes. Their difference is, get this: AUTO disables exposures over 1/8 seconds, manual focus, and macro photography. What does it enable instead? Get this: nothing whatsoever. Why in the blue blazes is this separate from the P mode? It only adds further restrictions without helping the photographer at all. Automatically choosing something when the photographer doesn't know how to select it is understandable, but refusing the photographer something that is optional to begin with is not. JIP | Talk 20:15, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Auto is for when you don't want to think about anything. P, according to this site, "sets both the aperture and the shutter speed; however other camera settings such as sensitivity, compensation, and white balance can be adjusted by the user." To my mind, not allowing, for example, macro, in Auto mode is a good thing, because on more than one occasion I've forgotten to reset my Sony MVC-500 to normal. --LarryMac | Talk 20:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd agree. Auto will also do auto flash, whereas in P you should be able to control it, force it on, turn it off, or set it auto. The reason it would disable exposures over 1/8 seconds would be that it would assume that would be the slowest possible shutter speed you could use without being guaranteed of bad blurring (and even with IS, that's probably overgenerous, i.e., most photographers would blur at 1/8s). But you're saying it's not helpful to a point-and-shoot photographer to try to stop them inadvertently blurring their photos? We could go through the other things too. Does someone just grabbing up the camera for a quick snapshot want to worry with manual focus or macros? Do they even know what they are? So I'd say Auto is a very useful option for the very reason that it does disable options to try to prevent mistakes for people just wanting to take snapshots. --jjron 12:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The point is, even with P mode, manual focus and macro photography are off by default. You have to manually turn them on (which requires knowing they exist in the first place) for them to make any difference. If you just switch from AUTO to P, it's still a point-and-shoot camera. Why does the camera have a mode that forbids enabling something that is disabled by default? It's not like it compensates for this by making other choices automatic, like it does with P versus Tv, Av or M. The flash is normally physically depressed into the camera, which means it won't automatically fire even in AUTO mode unless you physically lift it up. So I don't think that's a reason either. And yes, pictures at 1/8 seconds do blur a lot. But they're also nearly always hopelessly underexposed, making them look drab and boring. I'd rather have the photographs have proper lighting than have them razor-sharp. As an analogy, consider a restaurant where the waiter offers to select the wine for you if you don't know squat about wines, but adds that this means you can't add condiments to your food. Having the right wine is important, and a wine novice would possibly order something that tastes bad with the food. But adding condiments is completely optional. Most restaurant foods don't need them. But if you find that it does, then you should be able to decide for yourself whether to add them or not. JIP | Talk 15:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what's going on with your digital camera, but any I've used (and that's lots) automatically fire the flash in Auto mode if it decides it needs it, at least if you give it time to focus. Even my DSLR does this in Auto. Also disagree with your first point; yes you have to turn on macro or whatever, but as cameras have got more user friendly this is ridiculously easy to do - in other words, someone grabs the camera to take a quick snap, in doing so accidentally hits the macro button, and voila, you're in macro mode when you don't want it (so you don't have to know these things exist, and in fact may not even know what they are). Believe me, I deal with photos taken by schoolkids all the time, and unless they have a fair bit of nous about this I tell them 'just use auto' for the very reasons that they can't accidentally do things you don't want, and so that the camera takes control. Invariably when they use other modes, the pictures come out a mess unless they've been instructed in what to do. And hey, if you don't like Auto mode, then don't use it. --jjron 09:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I tried out the flash, and it is just like I said, it is normally physically pressed into the camera. When pressed down, it won't fire, no matter what. When you lift it up, it can fire, depending on the mode. In AUTO mode, it can only fire automatically. In P mode, it can fire either automatically or always. If the flash is pressed down but the camera decides it should still fire, it informs me. I gather from your posts that the point of forbidding me to use advanced features in AUTO mode is to protect myself from stupid accidental mistakes. This may be right, I previously had a Minolta Dimage 7i camera, which is an older model but more advanced for its time. When using it, I kept accidentally pressing the AF/MF button, which works even in AUTO mode, and it ruined a couple of pictures, because I am not very good at manual focusing. JIP | Talk 16:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Camera Equipment

What is the best camera equipment (small camera) that can see in underground or dark spaces like a cave, does it need special lighting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.106.144 (talk) 21:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

In a cave, with no light coming in from anywhere - no camera can possibly operate. However, if there is very little light then image intensifiers (aka Night vision device) can boost the brightness to the point where almost any camera could record it. Domestic camcorders will generally operate down to a few lux. A candle within a few feet of the camera and the object will provide enough light for at least a monochrome picture. A still picture camera can do better by leaving the shutter open for longer - so providing the camera is firmly mounted and the thing you are photographing doesn't move - you can use long exposures to compensate for low light levels. SteveBaker 22:15, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

What is it where you can see what a camera is inputting from another location on a screen or monitor in front of you, kind of like what they use in undercover operations, so while they are not in a room at time they can see what is going on in another location?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.121.106.144 (talk) 22:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

That would be a 'closed circuit TV camera' (CCTV for short) - but that doesn't affect the ability of the thing to see in the dark - it just refers to a situation where the TV signal isn't being recorded in the camera for replay later and it isn't being broadcast over a radio link. The camera itself is the same thing either way. SteveBaker 22:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It is possible for a camera to operate in total darkness, but it would require the use of an active infrared system. That basically "illuminates" the area, but using an IR source that is not visible to the unaided human eye. - Eron ^Talk 00:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Is Internet Email Private?

Is email sent over Yahoo,Hotmail, Google, private?
are there people reading them?
are there computers reading them and saving information

Is there a way to encrypt email so above does not happen, if it is happening. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.147.36.50 (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Unencrypted email is certainly not private. People along the way between you and your destination could certainly read it if they had the resources to devote to doing it. Treat it like a phone conversation in that regard. Are there people reading them? Well, nobody could possibly read all of it - there is just vastly too much of it - but they can (and in some cases do) use computers to scan email for suspicious stuff and route that off for humans to read. If you are emailing from work then there is a very strong likelyhood that your email is being archived - and if you work for a large organisation, it's possible that someone is reading random emails just to keep a rough check on what's going on. There are plenty of ways to encrypt your email - but it very much relies upon the person at the other end knowing how to decrypt it (and actually being bothered to do so). A very popular program is called 'PGP' (Pretty Good Privacy) - which as it's name implies does a pretty good job - although it's possible that the resources of a major government who really wanted to know what a specific email said could do so within a few days to weeks with a major decryption effort. SteveBaker 22:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It's also worth noting that the mere existence of an encrypted email can quite easily raise red flags if you're concerned about official (government / corporate / etc) monitoring. Since the addresses can't be encrypted, this may draw unwanted attention to yourself and/or the recipient. — Lomn 12:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Very true. If you wanted communications to be secret as well as private - that would be a different matter. I'd suggest steganography - hide your encrypted data in the low order bits of the pixels in a photograph where it would simply look like a somewhat noisy image. If you care very much then don't even send the photo to the other person (since, as Lomn points out, addresses can't be encrypted) - but instead post it into some gigantic online photo repository such as Flickr and have the other person download it from there. SteveBaker 14:42, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

you might want to read the article E-mail privacy. Jon513 15:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You might want to also read Carnivore (FBI). Corvus cornix 17:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Breasts

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page.

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis or prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page. --~~~~

This question was removed due to the partial medical nature and I put it back. Without the second sentence, this is not a medical question and I feel it should stay. That's why I'm putting it back. Now back to the question, I don't know of an answer but since your user page says you're a student, maybe ask the theater dept.? Dismas|^(talk) 22:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This is not the place to discuss that - take it to the 'discussion' page. SteveBaker 22:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

...what? That's a medical question? I meant it as a costuming-related question rather than... well I guess I can see how you'd think that. Ah well. I'll ask someplace else, now that I'm all embarrassed anyway. Thanks. Kuronue | Talk 22:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

don't be silly. it wasn't a medical question. hiding it you just waste people's time because they'll go dig for the diff B) --dab (𒁳) 13:25, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You certainly cannot rely on any advice here that binding the nellies would be comfortable or safe. But women such as Frances Clayton, Sarah Edmonds Seelye, and "Albert D. J. Cashier" who sought to pass as male soldiers, successfully concealled their gender in the American Civil War, while others were discharged for "sextual incompatibility."[6]. Edison 07:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoever has deleted that interesting question is a eunuch and a hypocrite who must be hiding his sexual promiscuity (phew) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk) 08:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Unknown film

I was watching a film a while ago and I've forgotten the name of it. If I summarize it, I'd greatly appreciate any guesses on what it was called: There was this family and the dad was really paranoid about nuclear attacks or something, so he made this shelter underground and he made the family live down there. That was in the 60s so they had all this tinned food; however they started running out of food so they sent their son up to get supplies, only he'd never been up before and it was in the future. Any idea? Thanks very much. :D 86.153.37.143 22:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Blast from the Past? - Eron ^Talk 22:30, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

September 20

Small city in Florida where every household have aircraft

I've seen a TV report about a small city in Florida having runways instead of streets, because almost everybody uses an airplane for transportation. What's the name of the town? curios, --Scriberius 07:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

They seem to be called "Airparks". Living with your plane.com seems to have a list of them. Dismas|^(talk) 07:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, there are several in the U.S... That's not imaginable here in Germany! Anyway, I miss an article about it >> Airpark/Air Park/Air park. C.U., -- Scriberius 07:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Article started... Airpark. Dismas|^(talk) 09:18, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Aren't there recreational flyers in Germany? Or is it just that there's no space for airparks there? -- Mwalcoff 23:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There is Spruce Creek Fly-In, south of Daytona Beach. John Travolta used to live there, IIRC. Saturn 5 23:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia and Alien Contact

IF there is alien contact, what would Wikipedia do to deal with it ? Just seen V (TV series) today in which aliens had made contact. After all Wikipedia is NOT censored. I could imagine Jimbo Wales having to change his pants if THAT happened. 205.240.146.131 08:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I imagine we'd report it, using appropriate references, in a suitably named article, in the same highly professional way we do with everything else. -- JackofOz 08:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

"I could imagine Jimbo Wales having to change his pants if THAT happened." ? --Taraborn 08:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

As long as the aliens follow wikipedia policy, I don't see a problem. But if their edits are POV or vandalism, or if they refuse to cite their sources, it would be a different story of course. Skarioffszky 12:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I would like to think we'd burn a few DVD copies and present them to our new overlords prior to doing the 'rm -r *' on the servers as ordered.

But seriously - the most likely form of alien contact would be via radio. If we detected a message coming from them, we do not currently have any kind of transmitter powerful enough to send a detectable reply - and even if we did, the round-trip-time for us to acknowledge their message and get an answer back could easily be many lifetimes - and there ought to be some real, serious debate about the wiseness of revealing our existance to a potentially hostile (and undoubtedly more advanced) race. Unless these aliens are continually broadcasting 'encyclopedia galactica' to anyone who happens to be listening, and in a form that we can actually decode - the effect would be more psychological than actual. SteveBaker 14:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

• Even if they're not hostile, a meeting between advanced and primitive civilizations rarely works out well for the primitives. --Sean 14:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

They would have to prepare to be assimilated. Edison 07:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

More importantly, what licensing would the encyclopedia galactica be under? I do hope it's not Creative Commons Attribution 2.5, because that would create problems. Neil ム 09:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure we're free to use the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy. · AndonicO ^Talk 12:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I feel that Wikipedia's Main Page for one should welcome our new alien overlords Lemon martini 12:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Welcome them to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia, of course. ;) · AndonicO ^Talk 13:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[7] FiggyBee 20:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

singing

I know that my singing is not a noteworthy ability but I try to give a build up of a singer and hence some people (may be mockingly)call me a singer.Whenever they say Iam agreat singer I feel low and guilty of hypocrisy.Please help me! I dont want to sing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk) 10:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I will not call you a singer. But please, sir, what is your question? --Ouro (blah blah) 11:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean that you are doing singing exercises which make people think you want to be a singer? Is there anywhere that you could practice in private? That way nobody would hear you and then they would not encourage you. But maybe you like the encouragement, secretly... SaundersW 13:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You need more self-confidence. I think you could usefully listen to Thank you for the music, by Abba. Yes, their English was sometimes slightly mangled, and yes, it's pretty uncool to praise Abba, but their lyrics were often interesting and sometimes almost profound. --Dweller 14:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Ahem, why is it uncool to praise Abba for god's sake? --Ouro (blah blah) 14:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Dunno. Ask the faceless unelected arbitrators of fashion. Personally, I don't really care. I like Abba and... conversely... I think "Crocs" are the most loathsome things I've seen on people's feet since the time my mate stamped on a huge spider. So, that's me in the "uncool" bin. --Dweller 16:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

ABBA were/are way too accessible to be cool, anyone knows that. —Tamfang 22:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

There is NOTHING more un-cool than participating in the Eurovision song contest...except (of course) doing it when it's held in Brighton...that's MUCH more un-cool. Sorry - null pointes. SteveBaker 01:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Nortel

Is Nortel evr coming back? They seem to be going no where.129.112.109.250 19:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Well if they're going nowhere then they can't have far to come back. —Tamfang 22:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Certainly their shares chart doesn't show off a particularly nice picture. The fundamentals don't exactly cry out recovery either. Still it is a very large firm and there is no reason that if well managed it could once again see itself come back. ny156uk 22:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

They are currently undergoing an audit by KPMG. I imagine that the results of this audit will have a significant impact on whether or not they are "evr coming back". Plasticup ^T/C 01:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Creating a fictional account for IMDbPro.com

If you do not have a credit card number or a credit card, do you have to make up a fictional account number if you want to visit IMDbPro.com? Ericthebrainiac 19:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

That would constitute fraud. Corvus cornix 20:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

And wikilinking every third word is both unnecessary and very annoying! SteveBaker 00:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It looks like IMDBpro gives you two weeks of free trial and then starts billing your credit card $12.95 per month automatically. If you gave a completely fictitious card then I assume that would be detected and you'd be rudely ejected. If you used someone else's real credit card without their permission then that would be theft, identity theft, fraud...enough to get you thrown in jail certainly. So don't do that. SteveBaker 00:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The music video for What Hurts the Most by Rascal Flats

Who was starring in the music video for What Hurts the Most by Rascal Flats? Ericthebrainiac 21:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you ask this on the Entertainment reference desk. SteveBaker 00:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Notable production or spam?

An editor added a reference to The Mystery of Edwin Drood (musical) production at the Warehouse Theatre in Croydon. I know that most productions of this show are not notable, but a London production might be. Could someone familiar with London assess whether this is spam? --teb728 22:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the link is there as a 'reference' and references are supposed to act as proof that what was said is in fact true. The sentence says The show, now licensed by Tams-Witmark, has since has major productions at the Shaw Festival in Toronto, Canada; and numerous regional and amateur theatrical productions worldwide. - so the question is: Can I verify that this sentence is true by reading information presented on that website? In this case, we aren't so much interested in whether that website is notable or not - it's a question of whether it can be considered an authoritative source for the information we are referencing. If this link was in the "External Links" section then probably it's commercial nature would make it unacceptable...but it's a reference for a fact and that's a different matter. So - does that web site contain information that would enable an intelligent reader to be satisfied that this show is licensed as we say and that it has that one specific production and that it has numerous other productions around the world? If it says that then I think it's a fine reference - if it doesn't then it has no relevence and (particularly because it's a commercial site) it should go. Your call. (Incidentally, the reference desk isn't really the place for this kind of question. The Village pump or the help desk might be better venues.) SteveBaker 00:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I thought I had made myself clear, but apparently I didn’t. (Perhaps you equated my use of the word “spam” with link-spam.) My concern was not with the link to http://www.rupertholmes.com/theatre/drood.html. This link clearly contains an authoritative list of current productions and is a good link. Rather my concern is with the notability of the Warehouse Theatre production. Let me try again: Please read the following and tell me if you still think there is a better venue. --teb728 03:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The Mystery of Edwin Drood (musical) currently says, “A production by London's Warehouse Theatre is due to open on Friday 14th December 2007 for a run through to February 24th 2008.” Clearly a revival on Broadway or the West End or a production in a major regional theatre would be notable, but I doubt the notability of this production in a 100-seat Croydon theatre. Can someone familiar with London assess whether this production is notable enough to mention in Wikipedia. --teb728 03:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The articles I create

If you Wikipedians want to, you can change (disambiguation) what I've written in my articles into whatever you think is good for my articles that I create for Wikipedia. Ericthebrainiac 22:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Um, is this only a joke? If you're taking issue, this is not the place. —Tamfang 00:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes, we can - we don't need any special permission from you to do that. As it says next to the edit summary box: "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL" - which guarantees everyone the right to copy your article, mangle it mess it up, fix it, chop it up and make crossword puzzles out of it...whatever they want - and there's not a damned thing you can do about it! Is there a question here somewhere? SteveBaker 00:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

To quote the 'edit' page: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it." Plasticup ^T/C 01:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Please don't wikilink everything, the use of wikilinks is to encourage reading on a topic without having to express it with a separate link, not for standard grammar. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 02:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Eric, Some of the responses above were a little harsh; I hope you weren’t put off by them. Put simply, you don’t need to give us permission to improve your work, because you give that permission implicitly just by editing here. By the same token you have implicit permission to improve our edits. And it is not a good thing to use so many links; you should provide a link where a reader might want to learn more about a subject.

We have a saying at Wikipedia, “Please don’t bite the newcomers,” but some of us forget. --teb728 06:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Except that Eric is hardly a newcomer. --LarryMac | Talk 12:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Methinks Eric is forgetting that he himself is a Wikipedian. There is no "him" vs "us". -- JackofOz 12:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I find this guy adorable! He went out of his way to expressly permit it on his userpage too - how many newbies do that, versus how many expressly try to forbid others from editing "their" articles? I left a note on his talk page, though, to be sure he sees it (sometimes they forget to come back here) Kuronue | Talk 13:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

September 21

processing equipment for sugar cain

can you help me find out where to get informatin on manufacturers of prosessing equipment for cain and other biofuel equipment ? Thank you William Dumas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarheadwwd (talk • contribs) 00:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I typed "sugar cane processing equipment" into the search box on Google and got plenty of hits for companys that sell this equipment (both new and used). I suspect the reason you couldn't find anything is that you are spelling it 'cain' rather than 'cane' (which is the correct English spelling). SteveBaker 00:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

can we send mms via computers?

Is there any website which enable us to send Videosongs, multimedia messages from online to mobile? Don't suggest me the websites which allows us to send normal text messages Temuzion 04:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Is the "Draft" comming BACK ?!

Really, is it comming BACK ?! "We're (The US)" in two wars, and getting ready to take out Iran and/or Syria as well. 205.240.146.131 04:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• There is no support in the general population for a draft, and since the current crop of politicians is pretty much spineless, it seems highly unlikely. Besides, George Bush may not like Iran or Syria, but they haven't given him enough provocation. Clarityfiend 04:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, nor is the Ref Desk. That said, "getting ready to take out Iran and/or Syria" is merely amateur speculation and there is little evidence to suggest that the DoD, Congress, or the electorate desire a draft in the near future. — Lomn 04:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The draft in the U.S. could be reinstituted in weeks (or days) if the need for soldiers exceeded the number of volunteers. Young men are required to register, and rhe draft boards are ready and waiting. 90 days later, the draftees would be combat-ready, as was the case from the 1940's through the 1970's. Edison 07:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Selective Service would be the article on that system. Rmhermen 13:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

90 days? That sounds rather short, especially in the high-tech U.S. army. Clarityfiend 03:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If they bring back the draft, the outcry will make hippie flower children look downright conservative. —Nricardo 04:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Rainbows

Having seen a most beautiful (double) rainbow last evening I am prompted to ask if they are always the same diameter. Any one know please>--88.110.163.163 06:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the answer is no. If the rainbows are caused by the same water particles and the image is shifted then the double rainbows will be identical. However, more probably two different sets of water particles formed each rainbow, so they will be different. Given that the rain/humidity is probably similar at the same point in time, though, the particles are likely to be similar, thus the rainbows are likely to be similar in size. Micah J. Manary 07:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The size is not determined by the size of the water droplets, but simply by the substance that the droplets are made from. As the light enters the spherical raindrop, it is refracted, reflects off the back surface, and then refracts again as it escapes. For water this angle is 42 degrees for red light and 40 degrees for violet light. This is what causes the seperation of colors. this angle is the angle between the sight-raindrop line and the sun-raindrop line. So from this I believe that any water-droplet rainbow will always be the same size. Secondary bows which have the colors inverted are caused by a second internal reflection inside the raindrop, and have a similarly fixed angle.

You can make smaller rainbows from another medium, like glass beads. Give me a few minutes and I'll track down a very interesting physics lecture explaining all of this and more with discussion of this interesting example [8]. Capuchin 07:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Here we go, I believe it can be found here: [9] although I cannot verify this because my work blocks google video. It's one of Prof. Walter Lewin's fantastic set of undergraduate video lectures. All of which are highly recommended. Capuchin 07:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually the answer is right in the article Rainbow the primary appears at an angle of 40.6°–42° from the point opposite the sun. The secondary at 50°–53°. --teb728 07:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, that should be the first place to look. I was overcome with excitement at seeing a question I could answer in detail!! Also, why is this not on the science desk? Capuchin 07:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

HSARPA

I want to know where HSARPA falls in the homeland security line of management. I noticed that the similar DARPA is listed in the defense box thing at the bottom of the page, but HSARPA is notably absent. Just go the the darpa page and scroll down (I don't know what those big boxes are called - portals?). Where would hsarpa analogously fit? Micah J. Manary 06:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, here is it. Department of Homeland Security: Organizational Chart. HSARPA (Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency) falls under the auspices of the Under Secretary for Science and Technology, who in turn reports directly to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security. Plasticup ^T/C 15:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Argentina currency exchange

I'm going to Argentina from Europe. I want to change 1,000 euros in Argentine pesos (ARS). Am I better of changing the money in Europe or should I do it once in Buenos Aires? Thank you 81.240.119.157 10:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Currency markets are highly liquid and almost perfectly competitive. It shouldn't matter in which country you change it, but be sure to go to a real bank. Those currency booths at the airport will rip you right off. Plasticup ^T/C 13:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Empire State Building

What is the maximum amount of people allowed in the lift in the Empire State Building? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.1.195 (talk) 10:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

They call them elevators in American, and the Empire State Building has 73 of them so it's hard to say. Neil ム 10:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Should be placarded in each one, so if we have any Wikians who work there, maybe they can do a quick eyeball check for us. Saturn 5 13:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No Original Research. -88.111.190.248 14:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't apply to refdesk questions, but only "in relation to the topic of the article". --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Reading and citing an external reference, even if it's a placard in an elevator car, isn't original research. Original research would be if you gathered a bunch of people and started stuffing them into the elevator car, stopping only when the car was volumetrically full or the safety systems actuated.

Atlant 16:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

If it helps, the elevators in the ESB were installed, and are maintained by, the Otis Elevator Company ([10], [11]). They have a capacity of 3500 lbs each ([12]) - capacity depends on how fat the passengers are. If you assume an average weight of 200 lbs (and the average weight of an American male is now 191 lbs(!)), then the capacity is 17 people. This link ([13]) states it is 15 people, or 200 per elevator per hour. Neil ム 14:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

"Rainbow Stylin'"?

I like the song, but what exactly is "Rainbow Stylin'"? --Candy-Panda 11:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Rather rude, I'm afraid: urbandictionary. Naughty Swedes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Note, that link is NSFW. Plasticup ^T/C 13:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It describes a sexual practise. Whether that makes it NSFW is probably a matter of opinion. I did flag it as rude; was that not enough? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It's entirely possible that definition was just made up by a single person who put it in urbandictionary- we cannot assume the term is widely used for that meaning just from one very unreliable source. Friday (talk) 14:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

True. Another definition I came across was "A hairdresser's in Hounslow". --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sari - Source of image

Can someone please help me in trying to trace the source of an image on this page, under gallery. The actual image is no longer there, although the reference remains - traditional sari fabric.jpeg. I would like to get hold of the image at 300 dpi to use on a book jacket. Any assistance would very much be appreciated. Kind regards Lyn Parr ((email removed for your protection)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.151.94 (talk) 11:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Where did you find the name of the image referenced? I can't find any mention of it anywhere, not even an old one on Google. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspect it was "Sari fabric.jpg", shown in the gallery at [14]. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The log shows no history. Does this mean it never existed? I also searched through Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/Log and found no mention. Plasticup ^T/C 17:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Cathedral

Having visited many cathedrals in Europe, I have noticed that most are divided internally to make several smaller churches within the one larger cathedral, why is this. Thanks guys and girls81.144.161.223 12:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't seem to have much on this. Passing references, which don't explain the underlying logic, at Cathedral architecture of Western Europe#Presbytery and chapels and Cathedral diagram#Liturgical east end. I'd opine that Cathedrals are, somewhat, the shopping malls of devotional buildings. Chapels within Cathedrals provide a means of honouring favourite saints & the Virgin Mary; are things which can be endowed by the well-off, for whatever purposes such endowments serve; and presumably were built a) because they could be and b) because they were copied from prior examples of cathedral art. Hopefully someone who actually knows will now visit this question. AFAIK, cathedral buildings had wider uses than merely as sites for religious devotion in ages past - the mall analogy may indeed be accurate; I vaguely recall that they were used for a range of commercial and social activities, upon a time. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

You may be thinking of the temple in Jesus' day. I don't recall mention of commercial activity inside the cathedral itself. Fairs and markets took place in the town square which was often right out the front doors of the cathedral though or in the cathedral close. Here in a interesting article with a historic quote on the problems these markets presented: [15]. Rmhermen 13:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Side chapels provide a more intimate space for private prayers or meditation or small services. A side chapel in a central position to the east of the high altar is traditionally dedicated to the Virgin Mary and is known as a Lady Chapel - this plan of St. Alban's cathedral shows a Lady Chapel at point O. Gandalf61 14:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes the cathedral is a later building constructed over a number of smaller shrines; the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, for example. I don't think that's true for most European cathedrals, but perhaps they were influenced by the design of buildings in Jerusalem. It was conventional (and I guess it still is) to build churches in the shape of a cross, which handily provides lots of little nooks and crannies for smaller devotional spaces. Also, I do remember reading that Old St. Paul's Cathedral was filled with merchants and chicken coops and homeless people at some point. Adam Bishop 15:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Increasing the life of electric/electronic equipment ?

hi, other than the precautions such as protecting the equipments from dust, surge, mechanical shocks, liquids etc, turning off the power supply in the wall outlet increase its life (when not in use)?. This is based on my assumption that transformer of the equipments function even when on stand by mode or when it is powered. please provide other suggestions that might increase their longivity. 13:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)~~ posted by User:131.220.46.24 - where's SineBot when you need it? Tagishsimon (talk) 13:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Opinions may be divided as to whether unplugging the power supply increases the longevity of said power supply. There's a contra-supposition that most wear and tear originates when power is applied, and then power is turned off (e.g. through the thermal expansion and contraction associated with powering up & down). Clearly there's the slightly more important question of saving the planet, &c. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

For most items without moving parts (motors, etc.) I think keeping the unit stable would be good; i.e., powered up all the time. It reduces the temperature cycling which leads to failure of marginal solder joints, and keeps the unit dry from condensation in humid areas. Also, some items are less than stable when not at operating temperatures; I recall a particular Quatre DG250 audio amp I owned which would deliver 250 watts of howling feedback for the first day or so after powering up, but sounded very nice afterwards.

Special mention must be made of the original IBM PC which singlehandedly inflated the market for outlet strips, by dint of its power switch being one of the most frequent points of failure, requiring replacement of the entire riveted together power supply. Gzuckier 14:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Transient currents may cause damage too when turning things on and off. That's why light bulbs often burn out right when you turn them on or off. Transients can be much higher than the steady state currents. It may be better to leave something on if you will need it soon rather than turn it off. 128.196.149.25 03:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

It depends on the parts in question. Electrolytic capacitors, found in many power supplies, last longer if they're used -- a power supply that sees regular use will last longer than one that's sitting on the shelf. Integrated circuits last longest if they're operated at a continuous temperature, to prevent cracking from thermal fatigue, and if they're operated at a low temperature, to prevent electromigration of the wires. Other parts, such as resistors and inductors will last a very long time under any conditions. --Carnildo 21:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Chip sockets

Any electrical/electronic device with moving parts, a heater, or a filament will probably fail sooner if operated continuously than if turned off. For low power, all solid state equipment, or transformers/inductors/capacitors, I don't see that leaving them operating would be much of a factor in the lifetime. One issue is that if they are plugged in, they may fail because of spikes from utility switching operations or lightning that they would not be exposed to if they are stored unplugged. Heat is an enemy of electrical equipment, and a heavily loaded transformer would fail before a non-loaded one because of insulation breakdown and oil deterioration if oil-filled. That said, corrosion due to moisture might cause earlier failure of non-energized equipment than equipment kept warm, unless it was stored in a dry environment. I agree that electrolytic capacitors might deteriorate while non-energized for an extended period. Storage batteries might deteriorate if left uncharged. Resistors would fail sooner if hot. Edison 01:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

With electronics where the chips are not soldered in or clamped in position (ie those in sockets like the ones in the picture to the right) thermal cycling will gradually work the chips out of their sockets. Generally you can just push them back in again and all will be well. Fortunately, these days, most chips are soldered in so this particular problem hardly ever happens. However, that issue has generated a lot of urban quasi-legends in that it used to be true that powering PC's up and down wasn't recommended - but now it really doesn't matter. I fyou really can't bring yourself to power down your PC, at least turn the monitor off. SteveBaker 02:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

JD Whisky

Why is alcohol (especially spirits such as Jack Daniel's) more expensive in some states than in others? Is it because of tax laws in the differing states? --MKnight9989 13:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC) YES86.209.24.71 13:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)DT

Yes, liquor and tobacco products are heavily taxed at the Federal, State, and sometimes, locality level. They call it a "sin tax" so they can feel more justified laying these taxes at every possible point. Saturn 5 13:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, in some states the prices for alcohol are set by the state. Wherever you go in Vermont, for instance, the price of a bottle of Jack Daniels will be the same. The prices are even available online on the state's web site. Dismas|^(talk) 15:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Here in neighboring New Hampshire, we do Vermont one better: our state has a legal monopoly on the sale of "hard" liquor and such booze is only available at "state stores". My favorites are the giant ones we locate at the rest areas of interstate highways. "Buy booze along our highways, but don't drink and drive!" We do this, of course, in an attempt to snatch business (and revenue) from the other neighboring states' liquor arrangements.

Atlant 16:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Please help me

Three stripes on my shoes...

I would like to know:

1. How many points ou score in Scrabble for the letter Z ?
2. Which sport label uses three stripes on its clothing and footwear?

thank you. --124.121.51.83 13:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

See Scrabble letter distributions for the scrabble question. Depends upon the language. 10, in English. Adidas, IIRC, for the second question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the shoes: Doesn't it state the manufacturer's name on the tongue? Plasticup ^T/C 17:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like. It's right there in the photo. --Masamage ♫ 17:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That is what I found so confusing. Plasticup ^T/C 17:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It confused me until I looked through the history of this page to find that the OP didn't post the image, Tagishsimon did. That would have been good to put into the caption of the pic or stated in the response. But yeah, it wasn't the OP. Dismas|^(talk) 18:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

• Adidas has actually gone to the World Intellectual Property Organization to prove that they are the brand with the three stripes. --M@rēino 19:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Yahoo News using Wikipedia article

I read a news article on Yahoo [16] about Channel 4 reporter Sarah Smith's impending marriage, and then decided to check out her article on WP. The last part of the Y! article (a potted biography) appears to be almost a direct quote from WP with no attribution and "Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! All rights reserved." at the bottom, but the GFDL apparently "requires all copies and derivatives to be available under the same license" (GFDL). I know there are probably a bunch of sites that use WP content, but is it common for such a high-profile one to do so, and aren't they breaking the terms of the license? Thanks! --Kateshortforbob 15:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The source of the article is ITN; yahoo is merely carrying the feed. The last paragraph, about 40 words, is clearly a cut & paste from the wikipedia. But I guess this is at the lower end of the offending scale, and we could account for it as payback for all of the 40+ word phrases wikipedia has "borrowed" from here, there & everywhere. AFAIK Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks#GFDL compliance is the place we report instances like this that cause us enough angst. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. She works for ITN, so you'd think they could make up their own biography! I was just curious - I'm used to seeing (and removing) copy and paste stuff on Wikipedia, but I've never seen WP stuff elsewhere, except in mirrors. Thanks also for the link; I didn't realise there was actually somewhere to log that kind of thing. --Kateshortforbob 22:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The article is also on ITN's site here — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 23:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thre is always the hazard that someone will see a commercial website which has ripped off text from Wikipdia, then tag the Wikipedia text as a copyvio from the commercial site. Edison 01:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

In most cases, our comprehensive history mechanism can resolve those situations. We know exactly which editor added which words and when. Also, it's NOT wrong for Yahoo to copy our words - it's only wrong for them to copy them without giving us credit for it. SteveBaker 14:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Which appears to be the case here. Plasticup ^T/C 15:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Fourth Geneva Convention Article 1

Where is Article 1 for the Fourth Geneva Convention. The artical in Wikipedia starts with Article 2. What does Article 1 state? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.165.172 (talk) 21:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The full text of the Fourth Geneva Convention is available here. Article 1 states "The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances," i.e. that the signatories promise to uphold the Convention that they are signing. - Eron ^Talk 21:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Spike Lester

What does Spike Lester know about my soap opera characters' lives and where they are living? Ericthebrainiac 21:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Judging from his extensive Evil Genius-esque resume on the article you linked, most likely everything. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 23:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

September 22

Music in youtube video

What is the music in this Youtube video here. It sounds vaguely familiar and I was thinking of John Williams but my search of him doesn't make it likely. What is it? --Blue387 01:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe it is the theme from From the Earth to the Moon, a miniseries from HBO in 1998. Can someone find a copy I can download? --Blue387 08:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Homework for social studies

im 11 years old and i need hlp with my homework for social studies. it's due on monday the 24th of september. hi. i need help with social studies. my teacher is asking me to define:continent, Eurasia, Hemisphere, Prime Meridian, and International date line. If you could help me that would be awesome! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.96.210 (talk) 01:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest looking at all those articles. Just type them (individually) into the search bar at the left side of the page, near the top. -- Flyguy649 ^talk _contribs 02:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I wikilinked for you! 128.196.149.25 03:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Alternatively, you'll find a definition of all those in a good dictionary.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Good to see that the Reference Desk is doing its job. That's what it's here for :) Rfwoolf 13:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. We don't do homework, but if you still need help after you look at the articles, please come back and ask for specific help. You can even give your answers here and ask for comments, but if you do, show the results to your teacher. -Arch dude 16:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

A New Wikipedia?!

Having read the article in New Scientist, I'm asking is it true that there will be a new version of Wikipedia where in order to make the site "realiable", users' edits won't be displayed immediately unless they are part of some hierarchy of users with "trust"? Is this for real? Is there any way I can vote against this? Or will I just have to vote with my feet like I know many others will do once this new system is implemented? --Candy-Panda 08:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of Wikis and a lot of publically-editable encyclopediae (like Citizendium), and they may have different rules of their own. But much like Kleenex for tissue, the name Wikipedia tends to get applied to a lot of things that aren't strictly it. So no, as far as I know there are no plans to do anything that drastic to Wikipedia. You can bet there'd be an uproar if anyone suggested it. --Masamage ♫ 08:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Nevertheless, you might be interested to read Wikipedia:Trust network and Wikipedia:User access levels.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Stable versions is a new part of the software that is in the works. As far as I remember it doesn't affect how soon material is displayed, but it does allow some trusted users to tag a certain version of an article as stable, correct and vandalism-free - Mgm|^(talk) 09:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe the questioner was refering to this article: Wikipedia 2.0 - now with added trust. Unfortunately, as with many articles on Wikipedia, it is jumping the gun, announcing changes that are not finished or even yet agreed upon. Rmhermen 13:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

There have been long debates about this kind of thing in various Wikipedia forums - and this is certainly one of the things that's been discussed - but I don't think it's been widely agreed upon. As for whether a Wikipedia clone with different rules might come about - I would be rather surprised if that hadn't already happened - but such things are a total waste of time because they don't get many editors and within a matter of months they are hopelessly out of date compared to "the real thing". You can start a Wikipedia 'mirror' and you can set up alternate editing rules - and you'll start off with 2 million articles too - but when the real Wikipedia hits 3 million, I doubt you'd have 2,001,000. SteveBaker 14:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I got the impression that an unvandalised cache would be kept - for display to search engines etc - editing proceeds as usual - but the 'official page' is only updated by 'an expert' -- or something like that...87.102.89.127 16:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

How uninstall FLVDownloader

How do I uninstall the FLVDownloader and all of its components from my computer? Also, where would I find the temporary internet files such as ones I had just viewed on youtube on my computer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.231.244 (talk) 14:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The control-panel add/remove programs should contain a removal link for your application. In the Windows folder of your main drive (usually C:\) there is a folder (I think) called "Temporary Internet Files" which would have them in. Alternatively inside your browser there will be an option to 'clear cached pages' or 'remove temporary internet files' that sort of thing. ny156uk 15:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it under another name because when I went to the control panel FLV, Moyer didn't show up, nothing that seemed like it appeared, am I just searching under the wrong name? Also, my computer which is new and I just put on Windows Vista onto it, it does not have a temporary internet file folder, index.dat, or a content IE5 folder. All the links that supposedly take me to it just are dead ends. But, when I go the internet tools and click on delete temporary internet files it seems to be clearing something. Is it possible not to have a folder, or am I just looking in the wrong place or under the wrong name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.242.169 (talk) 16:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Carparo

I need some help. The Carparo case I believe was an australian court ruling in which a Universal rule was formed.

Would I be right in stating that the Carparo rule is to with damages awarded for child maintainance cases. In that the rule states that damages shall only only be awarded if there is a sufficient relation between defendant and pursuer and that it can be proven fair, just and reasonable enough that full maintainance costs ( or part?) are awarded.

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.107.4 (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Losing weight by thinking?

Per Brain, towards the bottom of the article, it is stated that the brain can consume about 1.5 calories per minute performing crossword puzzles. Does this mean one can lose weight by engaging in neuronically stimulating activities such as writing tests and essays, while maintaining minimal physical movement? Acceptable 16:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Theoretically, any time you burn more calories than you take in, you can lose weight. At 1.5 per minute though, don't base your diet around it. :) Saturn 5 17:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"5 alarm fire"

News reports of a big fire characterizes it as a "5 alarm fire". What does that mean and how are the numbers assigned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.117.125.195 (talk) 17:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The number of "alarms" is the number of different fire stations that have been called in to fight the fire. So a 5-alarm is so big, it requires equipment from 5 stations. Saturn 5 17:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

How does a "water expander" trick work?

I realize this is pretty obscure, but I once saw a trick where 500 mL of water was poured into a 5 gal bucket, and 1000mL came out the other end. Obviously there's a reservoir of water inside somewhere, but I was wondering about specifics on how it works. Thanks! 76.226.103.14 18:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Can not find the Internet Folder

I have a new computer and recently put Windows Vista onto it. I can't seem to find the temporary internet folders although when I go to internet tools and press delete temporary internet files folder it erases, so where could it be erasing from? Is it possible I don't have and internet folder on it? And, how could I find it? (There aren't any folders when I do a search on index.dat, Contents IE5, or twmporary internet folder, why can't I find these?