Talk:Boot camp (correctional)

A couple of points. Althought they share some features, isn't there a difference between 'tough love' wilderness camps for teenagers who are sent there by parents, and penal institutions to which offenders are sent by the state?

Also you claim the boot camp regime is about" promotion of fear, degradation, humiliation, discipline, respect for authority, absolute strictness, drill, physical conditioning and severe punishment in order to break the will of a person and to make him or her totally submissive" Doesn't such a sweeping statment (which may well be true) need backing up with examples?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cute 1 4 u (talk • contribs)

oops!

i just did a booboo, i'm sorry. somebody please revert this article to the last version. i had no intention changing it to the very first version i wrote last year. i only wanted to look it up and add my name, which i hadn't done, because i wasn't enlisted. sorry, sorry.Sundar1 20:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So done. For future reference, you can self-revert by viewing the article history, then clicking the "last" link in the line of your edit, and finally the "undo" link on the top of the right-hand column of the edit diff page. –Henning Makholm 23:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page. The reason for the parenthetical on this article does not seem to be references to the software, but references to recruit training. Dekimasuよ! 09:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Boot camp (correctional) → Boot camp — The software is located at "Boot Camp", but this page is located at "Boot camp (correctional)". I feel most people looking up this term are looking for the "correctional" page. Also all of the other topics borrow the phrase from the correctional version. I have also requested a move of the current "Boot camp" page to "Boot camp (disambiguation)". —Henry W. Schmitt 18:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Oppose leave the dab where it is, or move the military training camp to boot camp, becauee Boot camp originally refers to military recruit training. AND the correction usage comes from it, not the other way around. Plus Apple's software is not from the correctional usage. 132.205.44.5 22:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Personally, I agree the average when searching boot camp is searching for the Recruit training, so I would say have Boot camp redirect to the Recruit training as well as having Boot Camp redirect there. --Thε Rαnδom Eδιτor (tαlk) 23:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Oh thanks for the link. I think that the current boot camp and Recruit training should be merged and boot camp should direct to Recruit training. I agree with the above comment.-Henry W. Schmitt 02:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. What words "originally" meant is not directly relevant for article naming if the current predominant usage has come to be something different. However, I see no evidence that this has happened to "boot camp". In default of reliable statistics implying the opposite, I do not believe that the correctional meaning has become so dominant that it should displace the disambiguation page. –Henning Makholm 00:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I think that all of the other instances of the phrase "boot camp" borrowed the phrase for their own use. For example the software "Boot Camp" is a pun on "Boot camp", with boot instead meaning boot as in dual booting, a computing phrase. --Henry W. Schmitt 02:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you seriously claiming that "boot camp" came first for correctional programs, and only later was borrowed to stand for military recruit training? –Henning Makholm 23:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. I think the correctional one borrowed the phrase as well. I am for redirecting boot camp to recruit training. -Henry W. Schmitt 05:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Boot camp is boot camp and anything else is a disambiguation. Reginmund 00:12, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment the proposal is to move shock incarceration boot camp to boot camp, but boot camp is recruit training, as mentioned in the opening paragraph in the boot camp (correctional) article... so boot camp is boot camp?? 132.205.44.5 22:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes it is boot camp. Anything else gets its name from boot camp. Reginmund 23:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Except that the correctional version gets its name from something else, and we're discussing the move of the correctional version. 132.205.44.5 22:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Recruit training is the primary meaning. — AjaxSmack 02:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Most people looking up BOOT CAMP are looking for the _military_ usage IMHO. 132.205.44.5 22:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the misplaced move template on Boot camp. --Voidvector 20:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate Proposal move boot camp (correctional) to shock incarceration, as it removes the parenthetical disambiguation, and is disambiguous. 132.205.44.5 22:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This proposal might have merits. However, are "shock incarceration" programs modeled after military recruit training? –Henning Makholm 23:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Seems more encyclopedic sounding but is there citable support of the term being widely used as the primary term for boot camp prisons? All of the cited sources use "boot camp". — AjaxSmack 02:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
New idea: Redirect "boot camp" to "recruit training" and have disambiguation link on that page for the correctional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Henry W. Schmitt (talk • contribs) 05:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Deaths

"According to a report in the New York Times there have been 30 known deaths of youths in US boot camps since 1980."

I can't believe this is the last sentence in the article, and the only mention of the possibility/phenomenon. 30 people have died in this sort of institution. I'm not trying to advance an agenda here, but allow me to suggest that just maybe in the interest of impartiality we might want to have a little more discussion than this? —INTRIGUEBLUE (talk|contribs) 06:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]