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Lead section

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See also: WP:Lead section
For lead length see, #Size
Opening paragraphs
Further information: MOS:INTRO

The article should start with a good simple introduction, giving name of the country, general location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like. Also give other names by which the country may still be known (for example Holland, Persia). Also, add a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article). The primary purpose of a Wikipedia lead is not to summarize the topic, but to summarize the content of the article.

First sentence
Further information: MOS:FIRST

The first sentence should introduce the topic, and tell the nonspecialist reader what the subject is, and where. It should be in plain English.

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Example:

checkY Sweden,[a] formally the Kingdom of Sweden,[b] is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.
☒N Sweden,(Swedish: Sverige [ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ) formally the Kingdom of Sweden,(Swedish: Konungariket Sverige [ˈkôːnɵŋaˌriːkɛt ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ) is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.

Detail, duplication and tangible information
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Further information: Wikipedia:How to create and manage a good lead section

Overly detailed information or infobox data duplication such as listing random examples, excessive numbered statistics or naming individuals should be reserved for the infobox or body of the article. The lead prose should provide clear, relevant information through links to relevant sub-articles about the country an relevant terms, rather than listing random stats and articles with minimal information about the country.

Example:

checkY A developed country, Canada has a high nominal per capita income globally and its advanced economy ranks among the largest in the world, relying chiefly upon its abundant natural resources and well-developed international trade networks. Recognized as a middle power, Canada's strong support for multilateralism and internationalism has been closely related to its foreign relations policies of peacekeeping and aid for developing countries. Canada is part of multiple international organizations and forums.
☒N A highly developed country, Canada has the seventeenth-highest nominal per-capita income globally and the sixteenth-highest ranking in the Human Development Index. Its advanced economy is the tenth-largest in the world and the 14th for military expenditure by country, Canada is part of several major international institutions including the United Nations, NATO, the G7, the Group of Ten, the G20, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement, the Commonwealth of Nations, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, and the Organization of American States.

Infobox

There is a table with quick facts about the country called an infobox. A template for the table can be found at the bottom of this page.

Although the table can be moved out to the template namespace (to e.g. [[Template:CountryName Infobox]]) and thus easen the look of the edit page, most Wikipedians still disapprove as of now, see the talk page.

The contents are as follows:

  • The official long-form name of the country in the local language is to go on top as the caption. If there are several official names (languages), list all (if reasonably feasible). The conventional long-form name (in English), if it differs from the local long-form name, should follow the local name(s). This is not a parameter to list every recognized language of a country, but rather for listing officially recognize national languages.
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  • If the data on the population is recent and reliable, add the largest city of the country.
  • Land area: The area of the country in square kilometres (km²) and square miles (sq mi) with the world-ranking of this country. Also add the % of water, which can be calculated from the data in the Geography article (make it negligible if ~0%).
  • Population: The number of inhabitants and the world-ranking; also include a year for this estimate (should be 2000 for now, as that is the date of the ranking). For the population density you can use the numbers now available.
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  • Internet TLD; the top-level domain code for this country.
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Lead map

There is a long-standing practice that areas out of a state's control should be depicted differently on introductory maps, to not give the impression the powers of a state extend somewhere they do not. This is for various types of a lack of control, be it another state (eg. Crimea, bits of Kashmir) or a separatist body (eg. DPR, TRNC).

Sections

Further information: Wikipedia:Summary style and Wikipedia:Too much detail
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A section should be written in summary style, containing just the important facts. Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery. Main article fixation is an observed effect that editors are likely to encounter in county articles. If a section it is too large, information should be transferred to the sub-article. Avoid sections focusing on criticisms or controversies. Try to achieve a more neutral text by folding debates into the narrative, rather than isolating them into sections.

Comparison table of section sizes in country articles as a percentage of article size. Click image for latest data.

Articles may consist of the following sections:

  • Etymology sections are often placed first (sometimes called name depending on the information in the article). Include only if due information is available.
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  • Geography – Details of the country's main geographic features and climate. Historical weather boxes should be reserved for sub articles. Sub-article: "Geography of X"
  • Economy – Details on the country's economy, major industries, bit of economic history, major trade partners, a tad comparison etc. Sub-article: "Economy of X"
  • Demographics – Mention the languages spoken, the major religions, some well known properties of the people of X, by which they are known. Uncontextualized data and charts should be avoided. (See WP:NOTSTATS and WP:PROSE) Sub-article: "Demographics of X".
  • Culture – Summary of the country's specific forms of art (anything from painting to film) and its best known cultural contributions. Caution should be taken to ensure that the sections are not simply a listing of names or mini biographies of individuals accomplishments. Good example Canada#Sports. Sub-article: "Culture of X".
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Size
Graphic showing article quality, size, contentiousness, protection, and vital level. Click for live data.
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Main pages: Wikipedia:Article size and Wikipedia:Summary style § Article size
Articles that have gone through FA and GA reviews generally consists of approximately 8,000 to 10,000 words as per WP:SIZERULE, with a lead usually 250 to 400 words as per MOS:LEADLENGTH.
  • Australia = Prose size (text only): 60 kB (9,304 words) "readable prose size"
  • Bulgaria = Prose size (text only): 56 kB (8,847 words) "readable prose size"
  • Canada = Prose size (text only): 67 kB (9,834 words) "readable prose size"
  • Germany = Prose size (text only): 54 kB (8,456 words) "readable prose size"
  • Japan = Prose size (text only): 51 kB (8,104 words) "readable prose size"
  • East Timor = Prose size (text only): 53 kB (8,152 words) "readable prose size"
  • Malaysia = Prose size (text only): 57 kB (9,092 words) "readable prose size"
  • New Zealand = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,761 words) "readable prose size"
  • Philippines = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,178 words) "readable prose size"
Hatnote

The link should be shown as below: Avoid link clutter of multiple child articles in a hierarchical setup as hatnotes. Important links/articles should be incorporated into the prose of the section. For example, Canada#Economy is a summary section with a hatnote to Economy of Canada that summarizes the history with a hatnote to Economic history of Canada. See WP:SUMMARYHATNOTE for more recommended hatnote usages.

checkY== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

☒N== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

See also: Petroleum industry in Canada and Agriculture in Canada

Further information: Economic history of Canada and Early Canadian banking system

Charts

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As prose text is preferred, overly detailed statistical charts and diagrams that lack any context or explanation such as; economic trends, weather boxes, historical population charts, and past elections results, etc, should be reserved for main sub articles on the topic as per WP:DETAIL as outlined at WP:NOTSTATS.

Galleries

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Galleries or clusters of images are generally discouraged as they may cause undue weight to one particular section of a summary article and may cause accessibility problems, such as sand­wich­ing of text, images that are too small or fragmented image display for some readers as outlined at WP:GALLERY. Articles that have gone through modern FA and GA reviews generally consists of one image for every three or four paragraph summary section, see MOS:ACCESS#FLOAT and MOS:SECTIONLOC for more information.

Footers

As noted at Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes the number of templates at the bottom of any article should be kept to a minimum. Country pages generally have footers that link to pages for countries in their geographic region. Footers for international organizations are not added to country pages, but they rather can go on subpages such as "Economy of..." and "Foreign relations of..." Categories for some of these organizations are also sometimes added. Templates for supranational organizations like the European Union and CARICOM are permitted. A list of the footers that have been created can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Templates/Navboxes, however note that many of these are not currently in use.

Transclusions

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This section is transcluded from Help:Transclusion. (edit | history)
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Further information: Wikipedia:Transclusion costs and benefits

Like many software technologies, transclusion comes with a number of drawbacks. The most obvious one being the cost in terms of increased machine resources needed; to mitigate this to some extent, template limits are imposed by the software to reduce the complexity of pages. Some further drawbacks are listed below.

Lists of countries

To determine which entities should be considered separate "countries" or included on lists, use the entries in ISO 3166-1 plus the list of states with limited recognition, except:

  • Lists based on only a single source should follow that source.
  • Specific lists might need more logical criteria. For example, list of sovereign states omits non-sovereign entities listed by ISO-3166-1. Lists of sports teams list whichever entities that have teams, regardless of sovereignty. Lists of laws might follow jurisdiction boundaries (for example, England and Wales is a single jurisdiction).

For consistency with other Wikipedia articles, the names of entities do not need to follow sources or ISO-3166-1. The names used as the titles of English Wikipedia articles are a safe choice for those that are disputed.

Resources

Notes

  1. ^ Swedish: Sverige [ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ; Finnish: Ruotsi; Meänkieli: Ruotti; Northern Sami: Ruoŧŧa; Lule Sami: Svierik; Pite Sami: Sverji; Ume Sami: Sverje; Southern Sami: Sveerje or Svöörje; Yiddish: שוועדן, romanized: Shvedn; Scandoromani: Svedikko; Kalo Finnish Romani: Sveittiko.
  2. ^ Swedish: Konungariket Sverige [ˈkôːnɵŋaˌriːkɛt ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ

Template:FAOL Template:FAOL

Template:WP1.0 For coordinating the editing of Thailand-related topics please visit Wikipedia:Thailand-related topics notice board

Problem with Thailand

Someone needs to revert this section to its previous save. Last I checked Thailand wasn't a fantasy story about robots named ANA. - Apokriphos

Demographic Section needs to be looked at

I am not sure what to make of the demographic section. The Thai People entry says that tai people are the dominent ethnic group in Thailand, while the demographic section in the page says it's the Lao people. So which one is it?

Tai people include Lao, Central Thai, and many other groups. I agree that this section needs to be revised. The first part of it is simply inaccurate. Ethic Lao/Isan do NOT make up over half the population of the nation. The demographics article says that native speakers of Isan or Lao is 34.2% of the population. They outnumber native speakers of central Thai by only 0.5%, not to mention the facts that Lao-speakers typically also speak Central Thai, while Central Thai speakers do not speak Lao. It is simply misleading to say "Thailand's population is dominated by ethnic Lao." --Vincecny 16:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Vincencny. Kuson

I have just fixed the section. Now it is shorter and more in line with the Demographics of Thailand article. The previous version was not only misleading, but also simply inaccurate at several parts. Besides the Lao-Tai thing as discussed above, I also revised the Chinese part and changed "indigenous hill tribes" to just "hill tribes" as they are actually one of the last groups to arrive in Thailand, rarely "indigenous" at all. --Melanochromis 12:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Majority ethnic group

The intro says that Thai are the majority ethnic group. But the Demographics says that the Lao/Isan are. Which is it? Could we get some cites for this, to avoid edit wars? Ashmoo 02:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is a highly politicized, but not completely inaccurate, way of stating things. Lao/Northeasterners/Isaan people haven't been considered a separate ethnicity by the government since the early 1900's, when Rama VI and subsequent fascist dictatorships shaped the myth that all the people of Thailand were of one ethnicity: Thai. Today, most people don't consider Lao a separate ethnicity - but if they did, they would probably consider Northerners, Southerners, Chinese, and Muslims as separate ethnicities as well. Patiwat 02:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Revised the section already. Please see discussion in the "Demographic Section needs to be looked at" --Melanochromis 12:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

September 19, 2006 Coup

Removed the NPOV opening clause of the 9/19/06 section..."even though the army promised" Tarpy 20:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sex Trade?

No discussion of the sex trade, and exploitation of women and children? (not to mention young boys) Isn't it analagous to the "beer that made Milwaukee famous"? No mention of the sex tourists? Is this some kind of whitewash? Porphyria 05:00, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In contrast what the tabloid media try to make everyone believe, Thailand is much more than the sex business - but as "sex sells" you'll see much more stories about it than e.g. about the political situation in Thailand. And most tourists that visit Thailand aren't sex tourists, even though the percentage of sex tourists is probably higher than e.g. for those visiting Japan. But anyway. it is of course one aspect of the country, that's why we have the article Prostitution in Thailand, but IMHO it doesn't need to be mentioned with much higher prominence. andy 11:03, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sex tourism is among one of the major issue in Thailand, but is NOT the primary. As with many other topic, anything controversial is likely to be popular. I agree with Ahoerstemeier that most of tourists in Thailand isn't go there just for sex; it's merely one aspect of the industry. --Underexpose 00:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There is sex trade everywhere in the world!! If one is included in article about Thailand, that same statement should be included in New-York article as well. dhanakorn 00:40, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
**There is more prostitution per captita in the US then there is in Thailand. Does the US page mention it?** —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.83.72 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC).[reply]
**Exactly, then shut up. Stop picking on Thailand just because it's in Asia.** —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.196.235.246 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Then write that, add a section writing about how Thailand is mistreated in media, cite some sources. Voila.--NoNo 03:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with all the comments above. Thailand SHOULD have a section on prostitution because is unique not because its in Asia, but because it differs from other Asian nations in that prostitution is ready available in major tourist areas and touts pester even the non sex tourists to death, and are far bolder than in other asian nations, the level of organization and openness of prostitution locales, the fact that males are prostituted in organized bars, the fact that discotheques and bars that are open to the general public are dominated by prostitution, and the general complete acceptance, tolerance, and view of prostitution in the country. In most of asia, prostitution carries a stigma, but in Thailand, prostitutes are reached out to by the public.

If u dont believe me, believe Reuters.com http://today.reuters.com/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=inDepthNews&storyID=2006-12-14T203831Z_01_BKK81927_RTRUKOC_0_US-CHILDREN-THAILAND-SEX.xml

Thai Gem Scam

Though Thai Gem Scam does exist in bangkok and other large city in Thailand; I don't believe that it is a primary issue presenting in Thailand. Should it be move to topic "issue" or something? I don't think it is appropriate to place it under "Misc topic". What do you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Underexpose (talk • contribs) 23:51, 28 February 2006 (UTC).[reply]


-- I agree, is a detail, not a primary major heading representing Thailand, though definitely a disgrace and a clue of corruption effecting not only Thai people. Agree, it should be a link to a topic of its own --Kuson--Kuson 03:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)13th Nov 2006[reply]

Editing

Please remember that Wikipedia is an international resource and that the use of either British English, American English, or any other variety is acceptable. Editing out words from one variety of English with an exact synonym from another is counter-productive and stupid. Henry, Soccer means association football. Please refer to the wikipedia definition of such for further clarification. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.145.110.211 (talk • contribs) 13:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Belated reply: I seem to have started a minor revert war back then. My rationale was that the sport's known as football in Thailand. Paul C 12:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Map with Myanmar

I think it would be the PC thing to do to include a map with myanmar instead of burma as thailand's neighbor mostly because if they want to be called myanmar, who are we to say no? So I found a few but I figured before changing it I'll put up some options!

1.[1] 2.[2] 3.[3]

personally I think i go with #2. I'm kind of a newb though so if someone who prefers one ot another could also tell me how to change it if it's not going to be obvious, i'd be grateful! user:omishark 05:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hell no. Following the diktats of murderous thugs is not PC. In any case, the current map is used because it's PD- we can't just steal content from other websites. HenryFlower 07:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The English name of Myanmar is Burma, just as the English name of Muang Thai is Thailand. Maps from the CIA Fact Book are not copyright. Adam 09:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit more complicate issue which even has it's separate article Explanation of the names of Burma/Myanmar. But as here the article on the country is at Myanmar IMHO the map should be changed accordingly - we don't need to follow the US to ignore the name (or actually it's a more like a spelling change) for political reasons. andy 12:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not more complicated at all. The country's name in Burmese has always been Myanmar, while its name in English has always been Burma. The Burmese government announced in 1989 that henceforth the country's English name would be Mynanmar. But that government has no more right to dictate English usage than the German government would have to demand that we call Germany Deutschland. English usage is a matter for English-speakers, not Burmese dictators. Adam 13:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If Germany asked for those who speak English to call their country Deutschland I seriously doubt any english speaking country would simply say "no." This matter has a lot more to do with politics and the USA's relationship with Myanmar than who has the right to change the English name of their country. What should be considered is: if Myanmar doesn't have the right than what country does? Can the USA decide to call Myanmar something completely different then without their consent as well? You don't have to necessarily respect those in charge but they do have the necessary authority to specify what the name of their country is, in any language. Omishark 17:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The people of Burma have the right to call their country anything they like. If a democratically elected Burmese government announced that the country was now called Xakghwui, that is what I would call it. But the democratically elected leader of Burma, Aung San Suu Kyi, calls the country Burma, and so long as she does so, so should everyone else. The gang of murderers currently in control of Burma have no right to decide anything. Adam 00:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Burmese passports say Myanmar on them. That little plaque at the United Nations General Assembly room says Myanmar on it. Just because certain individuals don't recognize the legitimacy of the military regime doesn't mean that Wikipedia should use the antiquated name for it. The fact that unelected dictator Marshal Phibulsongram changed the name of the Siam to Thailand didn't stop people from using Thailand. Patiwat 22:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That was an actual change to the name of the country. This is a question of whether to use the Burmese language name (Myanmar) or the English name (Burma). The equivalent would have been a military regime in Thailand, having annulled a democratic election and locked up the country's elected leader, demanding that the English-speaking world call Thailand "Muang Thai." Adam 03:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well it should be standardized, so as to prevent confusion. Why not let Google decide? Search results for Myanmar almost double those of Burma. 70.41.230.90 23:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thailand's coat of arms

There is some controversy, started in the Bhumibol article about Thailand's coat of arms. The image shown at "Coat of arms of Thailand.png" is not the Thai coat of arms. It is just a generic garuda. The wings are wrong. The toes are wrong. The ornamentation is wrong. The face is wrong. I have deleted the image from the infobox until we can find a free license COA. Patiwat 18:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting the COA parameters screws up the Country Infobox. Could somebody else who has better editing skills make this edit for me. Patiwat 18:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I temporarily put the old image in its place; should be at least better than a glaring red cross. Paul C 20:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
th:Image:Emblem thailand garuda1.gif seems to be the correct representation Patiwat is referring to. It's uploaded there under fair use now, but perhaps someone would like to look into the copyright status of the image? Paul C 09:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bangkok AID

Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive is featuring the article Bangkok as a candidate for the Article improvement Drive. Vote if you wish! Felixboy 14:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could somebody explain (or point me to some source documents) that explain what the copyright status of Thai government publications is? Specifically, are all Thai government documents by law considered to be in the public domain (like in the US)? Also, does this include contents on Thai government websites? Patiwat 01:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to wikisource:th:พระราชบัญญัติลิขสิทธิ์ พ.ศ. ๒๕๓๗#มาตรา ๗,
สิ่งต่อไปนี้ไม่ถือว่าเป็นงานอันมีลิขสิทธิ์ตามพระราชบัญญัตินี้
(๑)ข่าวประจำวัน และข้อเท็จจริงต่างๆ ที่มีลักษณะเป็นเพียงข่าวสารอันมิใช่งานในแผนกวรรณคดี แผนกวิทยาศาสตร์ หรือแผนกศิลปะ
(๒)รัฐธรรมนูญ และกฎหมาย
(๓)ระเบียบ ข้อบังคับ ประกาศ คำสั่ง คำชี้แจง และหนังสือโต้ตอบของกระทรวง ทบวง กรม หรือหน่วยงานอื่นใดของรัฐหรือของท้องถิ่น
(๔)คำพิพากษา คำสั่ง คำวินิจฉัย และรายงานของทางราชการ
(๕)คำแปลและการรวบรวมสิ่งต่าง ๆ ตาม (๑) ถึง (๔) ที่กระทรวง ทบวง กรม หรือหน่วยงานอื่นใดของรัฐหรือของท้องถิ่นจัดทำขึ้น

Paul C 21:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks a bunch. Although it doesn't specifically cover government websites, I think that point 3 can reasonably be interpretted to include websites. This has a big influence on how images from government websites can be used in Wikipedia. Patiwat 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I've been giving that law a read in some detail, and would appreciat it if you could tell me how article 7 does or does not conflict with article 14, which states 

กระทรวง ทบวง กรม หรือหน่วยงานอื่นใดของรัฐหรือของท้องถิ่นย่อมมีลิขสิทธิ์ในงานที่ได้สร้างสรรค์ขึ้นโดยการจ้างหรือตามคำสั่งหรือในความควบคุมของตน เว้นแต่จะได้ตกลงกันไว้เป็นอย่างอื่นเป็นลายลักษณ์อักษร

This appears to grant any state agency the copyright over any of its creative work. Is there therefore a difference between "creative work" (งานที่ได้สร้างสรรค์ขึ้น) and publications (e.g., ระเบียบ ข้อบังคับ ประกาศ คำสั่ง คำชี้แจง และหนังสือโต้ตอบ, ระเบียบ ข้อบังคับ ประกาศ คำสั่ง คำชี้แจง และหนังสือโต้ตอบ, รัฐธรรมนูญ และกฎหมาย, etc.)? Patiwat 23:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simplification of History

Thailand was never colonised by a European power. There are two main reasons for this. First, it was left as a buffer state between parts of Asia that were colonised by the French and the British.

  • The Simplification of history continues, as a history buff I'm pretty sure the British and the French would have taken more out of Thailand, if they were able to.

Devraj Singh 11:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • They didn't do it because they were "nice." They did it because it was in both their mutual self interest. After the last French and British territorial grab in 1909, they decided to retain Siam as a buffer state because the rising threat of Germany in Europe led them to a mutual desire to settle their differences in the colonial world. If France and Britain had wanted to partition Siam at that time they could have done so very easily. Please spare us cheap sarcasm, it is very overused at Wikipedia, and wins no arguments. Adam 11:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, I took out the Cheap Sarcasm bit. I am aware of the concession of the 3 Southern Provinces to the British in 1909, and the loss of the land east of the Mekong to the French from 1893-1907. I am also quite aware of the history of Europe prior to world war I. Thought of the Berlin-Baghdad railway must have been quite unnerving for the British and the French to say the least. By the way What reference do you have to your claim? If France and Britain had wanted to partition Siam at that time they could have done so very easily. The simplification was bad enough in my opinion, which was the reason why I raised the issue, and now this.Devraj Singh 11:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"In the first decade of the 20th century, conditions were much improved for a final settlement with Britain and France... Anglo-French rivalry had abated with the exhaustion of new opportunities, the necessity of concentrating on current possessions, and the increasing dangers of the situation in Europe." (David K Wyatt, Thailand: a Short History, 190)
Before World War I Britain and France were two of the world's leading military powers, and Britain was the world's leading naval power. Siam was a semi-feudal third-world comic-opera kingdom (no offence). The French alone defeated them with little difficulty in 1893. If the two powers had decided to partition Siam, they could have done so in a few months. Adam 12:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Firstly the British and the French were never able to do so, so the issue (of the sentence I objected) is based on an 'If' scenario written by a non-Thai. Ok, well that pretty much explains it. 'If'.

As I said earlier, I am quite aware of the situation in Europe or conditions of European armies prior to the advent of WWI. However, I also feel that most Thais would find your (further) simplification of siam as a 'semi-feudal third-world comic-opera kingdom' quite offensive. Not so much the 'Semi-feudal' bit or the 'thirdworld' bit (nothing wrong with that, in my opinion), but the 'Comic-opera Kingdom' bit (so much with sparing Cheap Sarcasms in wikipedia..). Seems that I sense some Eurocentrism here.Devraj Singh 13:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • It is untrue that they were "never able to do so." They never tried to do so, for reasons I have explained and given a source for, as requested.
  • 19th century Siam has been the subject of a comic opera (The King and I), as I'm sure you know.
  • As for Eurocentrism, it was a Eurocentric era - why else is Chulalongkorn a national hero for Europeanising Siam as fast as he could? Adam 13:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They were never able to do so because they never tried to do so, they never tried to do so because they were never able to do so, both are equally true in my opinion. As you said, in those days modernization meant westernization, until recently it was either capitalism or socialism, Left or Right, democracy or feudalism, today we are in a post-modern age and the boundaries are startinig to disappear. In many ways it is still a eurocentrist era, albeit Neo-liberalism has passed its peak (how much worst could it get for the world’s poor..).

For any Ruler in any age, the greatest honour is to follow one’s duty. King, Rama V and his predecessors are greatly honoured not only for their ability to uphold the nation’s sovereignty in the age of Colonialism but also for the upholding of Dharma in accordance to Thai belief.

I actually heard about this (buffer state) theory from my history teacher many years back. I objected to it back then, and I felt inclined to do so again today. Therefore from a historian’s (realpolitik?) perspective I can see where you are coming from. However, it may seem less biased if there were some sort of official consensus/document between (or by)the British and the French to back up this claim, (rather than a general perception based on a short history of Thailand text). Since there is none, I still feel that this view is being imposed upon Thailand by eurocentrist history, I have thus made small changes in the section, from:

First, it was left as a buffer state between parts of Asia that were colonised by the French and the British. Second, Thailand had a series of very able rulers in the 1800s.

To:

First, Thailand had a series of very able rulers in the 1800s. Secondly, it was able to exploit the tension and rivalry between the French and the British and thus remained as a buffer state between parts of S.E.Asia that were colonised by the two colonial powers.


Regards, Devraj Singh 19:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't for a moment dispute that Siam had two very able rulers in Rama IV and V. That is also the view of Wyatt, whom I cited above. (See his essay "King Chulalongkorn the Great: Founder of Modern Thailand" in his Sudies in Thai History, 273). But as he makes clear, the main evidence of their ability was their perception that Siam must westernise as rapidly as possible it was to avoid the fate of the Vietnamese states and Burma, which had historically been stronger military powers than Siam. The Japanese were the only other Asian state to grasp this fact in time. I don't think it is correct to say that Rama V was able to "exploit the tension and rivalry between the French and the British" - he certainly tried to, but the British were no help to him at all when the French made their demands in 1893. What led to the final settlement in 1909 was not Rama V's diplomatic skills, but the desire of Britain and France to settle their differences in the region and concentrate on European affairs. Siam was the fortunate beneficiary of this, and would have been so even if its king was a complete blockhead. Adam 06:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let any unbiased historian decide for himself whether Siam was a mere beneficiary of this or the extent of the King's role in ensuring the nation's sovereignty, regards Devraj Singh 08:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Anarchy

Has the situation in Thailand really deteriorated so significantly that the countries government can be described as Anarchy. I would hope that Thailand is not in the same situation as anarchical Somalia. Someone with more enlightment on the subject could determine whether Anarchy is the best description of Thailand's current government situation. It currently describes it as such in the infobox. Basser g 17:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the word Anarchy anywhere in the infobox. Zazaban 22:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Check: 2006 Thailand coup, Devraj Singh 08:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Anarchy means two things: the political ideaology, and a situation of chaos. The latter may likely, but the first is not. Therefore, the government cannot be called an Anarchy - but rather a junta or still a democracy - but you can say the political situation is in anarchy. However, I wish to further add that there is no chaos currently occuring within Thailand apart from the brief coup and even Thaksin hasn't fought back. So, no. No anarchy occuring within Thailand either. Ariedartin JECJY Talk 14:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops

Sorry for the double popups revert, I'm busy reverting an IP who is spamming links to his forum, and I'm becoming a bot... Yandman 12:51, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Japan?

Thailand's origin is traditionally tied to the short-lived kingdom of Sukhothai founded in 1238, after which the larger kingdom of Ayutthaya was established in the mid-14th century. Thai culture was greatly influenced by Cambodia, Japan and India.

Most people know that much of Thailand's culture and power in S.E. Asia was inherited through Cambodia along with much influence of India and China. So the above sentence must have been some kind of Joke. There was quite a lively Japanese community in Siam during the Ayutthaya period, remains of the Japanese quarters is still to be found amidst the monuments of Ayutthaya. Ayutthaya Kings also enjoyed the employment of Japanse mercenaries in their armies, particularly after the end of the civil war period in Japan at the end of the 16th century, check:[[4]].

For this reason, I have obviously changed the sentence to:

The origin of the Siam/Thailand is traditionally tied to the short-lived kingdom of Sukhothai founded in 1238 after which the larger kingdom of Ayutthaya was established in the mid-14th century. Thai culture was greatly influenced by Cambodia, China and India, although various indegenous cultures have existed in the area since the the early bronze age from the time of Ban Chiang (4420 BC-3400 BC) onwards.

-Devraj Singh

The article on Ban Chiang says that the original dates for that culture were estimated at 4420 BC - 3400 BC (based on thermoluminescence), but that radiocarbon dating revised the estimates to around 2100 BC. So, I think we should drop the dates and just say that indigenous cultures have existed since the time of Ban Chiang. I'm not an expert. I just noticed the discrepancy when I read the two articles. Does someone else have an opinion?
--Wechselstrom 05:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree that the dates should be dropped for now, until more substantial info is available in the Ban Chiang article.Maharaj Devraj 08:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Completely unsourced and uncited

This article is without sources and is not cited.—Who123 12:42, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Historical context after the coup

This article is one of several articles that will go through a contextual crisis in the aftermath of the 2006 Thailand coup. The junta has promised a new Constitution, which implies a different form of government with different institutions. If you take the junta's word for it, the deficiencies of the 1997 People's Constitution (No. XVI) were so significant that major changes will need to occur in Constitution XVII.

With that being said, after Constitution XVII comes out, should this article still retain any information about the forms and institutions of the government based on the 1997 Constitution? If not, should the content just be deleted? Or should it be moved to a different article? Or should information about the Constitution XVI, XV, XIV, ... governments be kept in this article?

p.s., These questions also apply for the Politics of Thailand article, the List of political parties in Thailand article, the National Assembly of Thailand article, and a couple of others as well. Patiwat 02:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Put the old info in a section about recent history.

Thai characters prevent line wrapping

In my browser, Thai characters prevent lines from wrapping when they are rendered. The browser is Firefox 1.5.0.3 (renderer Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.3) Gecko/20060523 Ubuntu/dapper Firefox/1.5.0.3). I do not have access to other renderers to try this with. The wrapping is prevented both in view mdoe and in edit mode. It results in lines about 10 pages long. Thai words also break onto a new line after a preceding parenthesis that stays on the preceding line. It can be fixed temporarily by manually breaking the line after a thai word and joining it back, but when it is re-rendered, it is again not wrapped. Apparently, this is known to the Mozilla team: http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla1.8b1/known-issues-int.html -Pgan002 22:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation: Narai Ratcha Niwet?

Does anybody know, how to pronounce the Name of the Temple "Narai Ratcha Niwet"? Or do you know where I can find help on that matter? I'm writing a TV-Text on that matter and need to be able to tell the narrator how to pronounce it.

WWII Fighting with Japan and France

I think some text should be added regarding Thailand's brief wars with French forces in Indochina, and with Thailand's usual ally the Japanese. I'm going to dig up a little on that subject and see if I can put together something worthwhile. Boris B 07:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I didn't realize there was a separate "History of Thailand (1932-1973)" article. Boris B 08:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

maps

I came looking for a map of thailand I can download and use with my pocketpc, but found no relevant. can anyone help?

Insulting the king

My uncle goes to Thailand frequently, and while he says that insulting the king is extremely dangerous, it is not illegal per se. Most of the censorship is carried out personally by newspapers, publishing houses, etc. A citation would be nice.

Your uncle is wrong. There is a law about that. --84.142.170.246 21:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See also the wikipedia article lèse majesté that confirms the illegality in Thailand. You may also do a simple Google search on "lese majeste thailand" to find many recent accounts of prosecution. −Woodstone 21:29, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Trying to prove the validity of one wikipedia article with another is not a very good idea. Nevertheless, apparently you're right. I apologize.Lehi 23:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Use of template in See Also

The template Thailand topics is now used for "see also." This is far more efficient than the typical plain list. There are 50-70 links using much smaller space. If you'd like to add more see also, you will have to add in the template, not in the article. The template, however, might look complicated, so if you don't know much about the template format, it's better to ask someone else to add it for you. Note that this template is also used for the Thailand portal --Melanochromis 20:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

where is the "Contents" summary on this page?

How come this article does not have a "Contents" list? Where does it go? --Zack2007 07:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's gone because the new included Portal:Thailand topics adds a __NOTOC__ via the Portal:Thailand/box-header. I will try to fix it... andy 12:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

September 2006 coup d'état is getting way too long

This is just a subtopic but it's already longer than many other topics. Plus, there's also a main article for this topic too. --Melanochromis 09:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's also biased. Not saying it is wrong. But it is biased. 210.10.221.160 15:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)Tommy.[reply]

I'd simply delete most parts of this subsection, it's nonsense to have more on this single coup, more than on the last 500 years of history. A single paragraph should be more than enough for this overview article - all the 30 earlier coups and the much more notable 6 October 1976 Massacre or Black May are covered by a single sentence within the history section. If noone complains I'll be bold soon and cut that subsection to a reasonable size... andy 22:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've converted it into a short paragraph. The removed contents can be seen here. Maybe someone might want to transfer it to the 2006 Thai coup d'état article. --Melanochromis 21:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Southeastern Asia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Southeastern Asia whose scope would include Thailand. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's an interesting idea. I already left my comments on the proposal page. Good luck !! --Melanochromis 21:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yea this fits for a wiki project do it it'd be good Tu-49 03:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thailand was a constitutional monarchy?

Thailand was a constitutional monarchy until the sudden coup on September 19, 2006.

Isn't it still a constitutional monarchy? Why? The infobox states that the current government type of Thailand is military dictatorship under constitutional monarchy. I am sure that Thailand is not considered absolute monarchy, and the military dictatorship does not rule out the problability of constitutional monarchy, as stated here. Can someone check this? I don't know how to fix it, though. kinkku ananas (talk) 11:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I totally agree with kinkku ananas (talk) on this matter. Maharaj Devraj 08:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From 19 September 2006 to 1 October 2006, Thailand did not have a constitution. The very first act of the 19 September rebels was to abrogate the constitution. Therefore, for that period of time, Thailand was not a constitutional monarchy. Patiwat 07:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that is true, thanks to Patiwat for clearing it up for us. Hope all will go well after the elections in December. Maharaj Devraj 15:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Division between Politics and Government

The article currently contains one section on Government and another section on Politics. The Government section talks about the popularity of the King and the details of the 2006 coup. The Politics section mentions the structure of government under the 1997 constitution. No mention of the structure of government prior to 1997. No mention of the ban on political activities after the 2006 coup. Both sections need a big re-write. Patiwat 08:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have merged the two sections, provided numerous references, gave some historical context, and described the forms of government under the 1997 Constitution (1997-2006) and current Constitution. Patiwat 09:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV

I just put NPOV in this article because it not neutral. It need to be clean up please. Jet123 23:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jet123, can you be more specific about what portion(s) of the article you believe are not neutral? Other than the section on the Coup, the article appears to me to be factually neutral and objectively encyclopedic. - Thaimoss 00:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Press freedom

Am I the only person put off by the last graf under Culture ("Thai culture has been greatly shaped in recent years by its vibrant and free press."), which happens to be just above the rankings section that lists the country as 122nd out of 167 in press freedom by Reporters without borders? (Added by 68.228.8.68 on March 25, 2007, 04:22)

Agree with your impression of the phrase "vibrant and free" in light of the nearby comment, which is pretty hard to interpret that same way. However, that organization is probably not "the" authority on press and/or press freedom, just one voice. Have toned down a bit, focusing on breadth of market of newsprint. - Thaimoss 15:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of protection from Thailand ?

Tizio, Respect the DumbBOT, and clearly see the edit comment "removing a protection template from a non-protected page" but I think there is a disconnect. I requested that the page be protected from non-registered edits, as a result of vandalism. The protection was implemented (although maybe not correctly, from your BOT response). The vandalism on this page all but stopped. So, this was all good, and at least according to the process.

Then, DumbBOT came in and removed that protection template, and here is the result, within hours:

16:47 Thailand‎ (14 changes) . . (-588) . . (Page history) [66.141.178.154‎; Zack2007‎; Gtg204y‎; Prolog‎; 59.100.255.60‎ (2×); 68.223.108.85‎ (2×); Houserat125‎ (3×); 217.60.120.11‎ (3×)] 

           16:47 (cur; last) . . (-270) . . 66.141.178.154 (Talk)
           16:15 (cur; last) . . (+30) . . 68.223.108.85 (Talk) (→Etmology)
           16:14 (cur; last) . . (-348) . . 68.223.108.85 (Talk) (→Etmology)
       m   10:22 (cur; last) . . (+987) . . Gtg204y (Talk | contribs) (rvv)
           10:22 (cur; last) . . (-987) . . 217.60.120.11 (Talk) (→YouTube Controversy)
       m   10:20 (cur; last) . . (-475) . . Prolog (Talk | contribs) (Reverted 2 edits by 217.60.120.11 to last revision by Zack2007. (TW))
           10:20 (cur; last) . . (-14) . . 217.60.120.11 (Talk) (→Headline text)
           10:19 (cur; last) . . (+489) . . 217.60.120.11 (Talk) (→Demographics)
       m   10:02 (cur; last) . . (-65) . . Zack2007 (Talk | contribs) (Undid revision 122231834 by Houserat125 (talk))
           09:57 (cur; last) . . (+65) . . Houserat125 (Talk | contribs) (→History)
           09:47 (cur; last) . . (-13) . . Houserat125 (Talk | contribs) (→History)
           09:47 (cur; last) . . (+12) . . Houserat125 (Talk | contribs) (→History)
           07:19 (cur; last) . . (-60) . . 59.100.255.60 (Talk)
           07:17 (cur; last) . . (+61) . . 59.100.255.60 (Talk)
        b  05:58 (cur; last) . . (-22) . . DumbBOT (Talk | contribs) (removing a protection template from a non-protected page)

What was wrong with the protection template? Can you undo that BOT "fix" while we work to get that protection done the "right" way? The protection was requested, and implemented, and is legit, we just need to get it set up right (I guess) - Thaimoss 22:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC) (talk)[reply]

I have removed the protection template, but the page was already unprotected. See User_talk:DumbBOT#Q&A about unprotection for details. Tizio 13:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, it doesn't look like a huge amount of vandalism. If it increases, we may semi-protect the article again. Tizio 13:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube

This is a minor event in comparison with the history of a nation, so it certainly does not deserve to be mentioned in the main article of the involved nation. It's like I write about the close-down of Napster on the United States article. I have moved it to Media of Thailand, not even sure its sufficiently significant there`. Tizio 13:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My immediate reaction was to disagree. But upon further reflection, I see some merits in Tizio's example of Napster of writing about "the close-down of Napster on the United States article" with one exception. In this case here, we are not dealing with private disputes between private corporations. The YouTube shutdown was initiated by the Thai government, so I maintain that the YouTube controversial should be part of Thailand "somewhere" and not just in the Media of Thailand section. So my suggestion is this - would a brief text and a link from Politics of Thailand to Media of Thailand make sense and work? Just my 2 cents. – Kempton "Ideas are the currency of the future." - a quote by Kevin Roberts 23:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Media of Thailand is an article about Thailand, so I don't know why that could not be the somewhere where this event is mentioned; IMO that's the most reasonable place where one would expect to find Internet-related events concerning Thailand. On the contrary, this articles contains the more significant facts about the nation, and mentioning the YouTube event here is like attributing it the same importance. A mention from Politics of Thailand might be worth a try, however. Tizio 13:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Government

Shouldn't the government be "in transition (currently military junta)"? QZXA2 23:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

-- No.

lacks historical stuff!!

hey it lacks the thai invasion of french indochina episode resulting in the vichy french-thai conflict of 1941 and the involvement of the thai along the french against the communist viet minh in the 1st indochinese war. there were thai infantery and airborne thai battalions in the french union figfhters at dien bien phu 1954. Shame On You 21:13, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Economy and Long Stay Foreign Residents

In the section about economy, the following line stands out:

"Long stay foreign residents also contribute heavily to GDP."

Without a source to confirm this, this line really should be removed from the article. I don't believe it is accurate.(124.120.111.19 06:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC))[reply]


I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dinobert06 (talk • contribs) 02:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

missing text between first paragraphs?

Between the first two paragraphs, there appears to be information missing. The first paragraph is about the country's name, which was Siam until 1939, and then changed several times, the last time on May 11, 1949. However, the next paragraph starts with "A century later, Sukhothai's power was overshadowed by the larger Siamese kingdom of Ayutthaya, established in the mid-14th century", which seems totally out of context, since the first paragraph is only about events in the 20th century. 202.154.150.222 08:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, the first paragraph of the history section was lost in one of the vandalism edits. Thanks for spotting it. andy 09:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thai history

both Ayutthaya and Ayuthaya appear here but i'm not sure if both are right because Ayudhaya is also widely used to call the same kingdom. moreover, where is Dhavaravati, Srivijaya and Lanna?

Reverted edits

I reverted the edits from the past few days that exemplify Thanksin's wrongdoings and overuse filler words to glorify the junta. If some editors are not appeased, the Government entry in the main box may be changed from "Military Junta" to "Military Junta, planned to re-establish Democracy" or something along those lines. I don't care about the wording, but I do believe that Thailand is still under military rule. Wikky Horse 03:37, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probably related with this, but from the other side - there's an anonymous user who repeatedly adds "under Royal Patronage" to the "Military Junta" in the infobox. To me the only reason to add it is to discredit the King as being behind the coup and supporting a non-democratic government. Any Thai government must get formal acceptance by the King, thus it is not necessary to add this into the infobox (or do we add it for United Kingdom, where the Queen also has this formal right). andy 16:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English as language?

I strongly doubt English should be listed in the infobox. It is not more common in Thailand than in other non-English countries to find someone speaking a reasonable English, as English is teached every child in school. However outside Bangkok and the other tourist areas one would have a lot of difficulty to find anyone able to speak an understandable English, much more than e.g. in rural Germany or Netherlands. But noone would think of adding English in the infobox for these countries. If any additional language to Thai should be added, Lao, Chinese, Khmer, Yawi and other minority group languages would be more appropiate. I have no idea why the CIA lists it as a second language, but do we have to use the CIA factbook as the only and authorative source? andy 19:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The item in the Demographics box is labeled as "Official languages", and because English is not used in official documents or recognized as an official language by Thailand, I removed it. Wikky Horse 17:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Flag - color is poor

The image of the Thai flag at the head of the article has a central band that is the wrong color. The true color is a much brighter blue. There's a photo of a Thai flag at http://www.kohsamui.org/thailand-flag.jpg, which shows its correct color. I don't have a suitable high-res image to replace the current one with - does anyone have one? Oscroft 19:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

However in the book referenced in Flag of Thailand it is printed in a rather dark blue, not far from the one in the SVG in this article. Sadly I don't know if/how the colors are officially defined in the Thai law in a normalized color space, or if it just says "blue". andy 20:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting book reference, but I have to say I think it has got it wrong. I don't know if there is a specification in Thai law - I just know what the Thai flag looks like in practice (I live there about half the year) and it is never that dark blue colour. Oscroft —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For further information, I have found several more web sources showing the correct color, http://www.worldflags101.com/t/thailand-flag.aspx, http://www.thailandlife.com/flag.html (weird shape, but a good color), http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Stu/ckunjara/, and http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/th.html. It is worth noting that that last page says "The reasons for the suggested change were that blue was the colour of the King and the red/white/blue-coloured flag, which was similar to the national flags of the Allies, would remind Thailand of its participation in World War I.", so the blue should be similar to the blue of the flags of the allies in WW1. I'll see if I can produce better versions of the images currently in use on the relevant wiki pages when I have time. Oscroft 07:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You might like to see Commons:Image talk:Flag of Thailand.svg. Commons:User:Plenz once uploaded another version with a brighter blue, but I thought it was too bright and the red was still too dark, and reverted it. Most of your non-photograph examples all have too bright reds to me. Thai law only specifies that the colours are red, white and dark blue, so there isn't really any standard. I'm for using the same colours as those specified for the Union Flag or the Flag of France, but even the latter's image on Commons is incorrect, and I know absolutely nothing about SVGs. Paul_012 (talk) 12:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

This paragraph is messed up really bad. Whoever fixes this should consider that Thai dictionaries define Thai TH:

ไทย (pronounced ไท) n. adj.free, freedom-loving; Thai, pertaining to the Thai or Thailand; a Thaiman, a Thailander; the Thai language S. อิสระ ; สยาม

เป็นไทยแก่ตัว vi.to be free, to be independent ไทยทาน (pronounced ไทยะทาน) n.(P) offerings, gifts, charity

ไท n.ไท้ n.(P) a lord, a boss เป็นไท vi.to be lord, to be boss S. ใหญ่

The expression ไทยไท is not to be found, but I've been told it means "We Thai", or the ungrammatical but more expressive, "us Thai".

Looking up free yields ( ฟรี ) adj. adv. vt. freely ( ฟรี - ลิ ) adv. freedom ( ฟรี - ดัม ) n. 1. อิสระ , อิสรภาพ , มีอิสระ , เสรีภาพ , เป็น ไทย , ปล่อย ให้ เป็นไท ย แก่ตัว , สิทธิ เข้าออก ได้ โดยอิสระ 2. ตาม สมัครใจ , ไม่มี มี ข้อจำกัด , สาธารณะ , ไม่ หวงห้าม , ไม่มี กฎเกณฑ์ 3. สนุกสนาน , สำมะเลเทเมา , ไม่มี พิธีรีตอง 4. ทะลึ่ง , ล่วงเกิน , ถือวิสาสะ , ถือวิสาสะ หยิบ เอา 5. โลน , ( พูดจา ) เปิดเผย , ไม่ ปิดบัง , พล่อย , ฟุ่มเฟือย , ไม่อั้น 6. สะดวก , คล่องแคล่ว , ( ไหล ) พลั่ง 7. ( เชือก ) แกว่ง ไปมา , ไม่ ผูก กับ สิ่งใด 8. ว่าง , เปล่า 9. ไม่ต้อง เสีย ค่า เข้า , ไม่ต้อง เสียค่าเช่า , ไม่ เก็บ ค่าธรรมเนียม , ไม่ต้อง เสียภาษี 10. ปราศจาก , เปลื้อง , ปลด , ปลอด , แก้ , พ้น


สยาม (สะหฺยาม) n. Siam, old name of Thailand สยามเทวาธิราช (สะหฺยามเทวาทิราด) n.The guardian spirit of Thailand

User:Panabol in his Initial states of Thailand gives alternate spellings of Siam as Sama / Sayam / Assam / Shan / Xian. I've stumbled over sources that said Siam meant Colored in a Burman language, and another that said Siam meant earth mixed with water, i.e., Black Earth, but I can't find them write now. Pawyilee 16:21, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking of adding the colloquial names of Thailand, ประเทศไทย and เมืองไทย, to the Etymology section. This is how Thais most commonly refer to their country, so we want the casual Wikipedian to know that there are terms to use other than ราชอาณาจักรไทย. The terms ประเทศ and เมือง mean "country" or "land", so the combination ประเทศไทย or เมืองไทย means Land of Thai, or Thailand. If this info is added, the Etymology section may also need to be reworded as just "Name" or "Country Name". Would this addition to the article add confusion and clutter or would it be worth its space? Wikky Horse 22:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ราชอาณาจักร is Thai for empire, so ราชอาณาจักรไทย really means The Thai Empire'. Pawyilee 01:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually no. ราชอาณาจักร translates as kingdom. Empire is จักรวรรดิ
I was going to say I didn't see why we needed an etymology section at the beginning of the article, but it seems most other country articles do have such sections, so I'm not going to dispute its existence. However, unless there is actually something to say about the names apart from the dates they came to use, it probably would suffice to mention the country's names in the history section rather than dedicating a whole one-paragraph section. Paul_012 (talk) 19:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disproportionate amount of Jewish history

User:TShilo12 recently added content regarding Jewish history in Thailand, which seems rather disproportionate given the fewer than 1,000 Jewish population. Perhaps it should be moved to another article, and half a sentence here would suffice. Paul_012 (talk) 12:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:TShilo12 is not inclined to disagree. However, the Demographics of Thailand article doesn't seem like it fits any better there, and the History of the Jews in Thailand or Jews and Judaism in Thailand article seems to have yet to be written. Perhaps User:IZAK has some valuable insight on what might go into such an article. Tomertalk 22:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ummm racial slur?

Acentury later chinese gooks came when Sukhothai's power was overshadowed by the larger Siamese kingdom of Ayutthaya, established in the mid-14th century.

I'm pretty sure that this word only has one meaning and it derogatory. I'd delete it but I don't know.

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