Talk:Siphon

How is a syphon depicted graphically in a drawing representing an hydraulic network? 88.72.2.55 21:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not all liquids boil under vacuum. That should be changed. It's true that water will. Ashi_Starshade

Can siphon also be used for U-bends that go below the level of the reservoir? Syd1435 01:27, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, that's an inverted siphon described in the article and it's not a siphon at all.Samw 04:33, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The article says:

The siphon was first used as a weapon by the Byzantine Navy, and the most common method of deployment was to emit Greek fire, a formula of burning oil, through a large bronze tube onto enemy ships. Usually the mixture would be stored in heated, pressurized barrels and projected through the tube by some sort of pump while the operators were sheltered behind large iron shields.

If this uses "pressurized" barrels and "some sort of pump", is this really a siphon?

See siphon bottle in the article. I didn't write this so I can't vouch for it's historical accuracy. But physically, it would be a siphon. The extra pressure in the barrel would make it a siphon bottle.Samw 04:09, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The writer of this article has referred to vacuum in two instances. The first claims that flow of liquid creates the vacuum. later on gravity tends to draw the liquid down in both directions creating a vacuum. I would suggest that "flow of liquid" eliminates all the air and so the liquid flows. When the upper end of the pipe is exposed air immediately invades and breaks the siphon. Thus I believe that references to vacuum should be deleted. Jack hill 7 Jan 05.

You are correct, there is never a vacuum formed and there is never any air within the siphon or it will not work. I see how the current description can be misleading. The reference to a vacuum is simply explain how the siphon works. If you have a better description, feel free to rewrite that section. I tried without success. Samw 04:14, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A lot of biology articles refer here, but the biological use of the word is really quite distinct. Unless anyone objects, I propose to take out the biological section (except for the discussion of the siphon effect in biology) and create a new entry for the siphon in invertebrate anatomy. Myopic Bookworm 17:23, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had a disambiguation at the top of the article just for that reason until it was removed on Nov 28, 2005. I would support you adding it back in. Samw 00:45, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mathematics

I originally added the math section at the end because the general reader of a general article like this isn't likely to be familiar with Bernoulli's equation. I'm merely applying the principle of progressive disclosure. Any objections to me moving the math section further down the article? Samw 03:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I made an error in the discussion and erased my comment.

Siphon as technique to evacuate cellars from floodings

Dear Wikipedians!

I am new in Wikipedia and almost without experience as author.

Could You please give me Your help to establish this method to evacuate cellars from water after floodings? It bases on the siphon: [[1]] Between the flooded cellar and a deeper place outside a connection is being built, using a tube or some pipes. They are filled with water from the flooded cellar or through an intake valve. When the ends are beeing opened, the water flows through the pipe into the sewer or the river.

I practised it many times to help neighbours and others and would now like it to establish itself, so that many people in the situation of a flooding are less dependent on the help of the fire department, their resources and the availabilty of pumps and energy.

I can´t wait to see Your comments, best wishes, Daniel Schwanck __Daniel Schwanck 14:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inverted siphons

This is regarding the image captioned "Inverted siphon under a sink".

The trap under a household sink is not an inverted siphon as defined in the article. The purpose of an inverted siphon is to carry the liquid under an obstruction. Per the article, it should be designed to maintain sufficient flow to keep solids in suspension. A trap does exactly the opposite. Can you please cite references for a trap being called an "inverted siphon"? If so, we should write that up properly in the main article. Thanks. Samw 01:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The pictured contraption is first and foremost a means to keep sewer gas from entering the home. Second, when emptying a sink one expects that all solids in suspension, such a food particles, will freely and quickly flush down, unobstructed. That is may occasionally keep some small parts (jewelry maybe) from going into the sewer (i.e. trapping them) is not very relevant, however pleasant it may be. "Trapping" particles is not a primary function of this contraption. The name "trap" is really a misnomer considering the main functions. VanBurenen 07:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify where siphoning takes place, see picture Image:Siphon detail.png. VanBurenen 14:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation. Agreed the trap is primarily for sewer gas. My issue though is calling it an "inverted siphon". Do you have references of people actually calling it an "inverted siphon" as opposed to a "trap"? (A quick search of Google for "inverted siphon" only shows it being used for sewers avoiding an obstruction.)

Your new picture raises another issue. You label a portion of the pipe "siphon section". While geometrically it is a siphon, it is my understanding that the siphon action is very weak or non-existent. Otherwise, the trap section would be emptied completely, defeating it's purpose of blocking sewer gas. All in all, I think it is problematic to label any portion of a sink drainage pipe a "siphon". Samw 00:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Attached file not too precise

In Applications, the linked file "http:/upwiki/wikipedia/de/b/bc/Hydrostatischer_Heber.pdf" (ref #8) is not too precise. The end of the pipe should be below the level of the tank, not below the bottom of the tank. The dashed line may confuse someone.

--Nicolaufg 16:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Syphon

I wasn't sure if this should be added but thought I would mention it here. Maybe a bit on the ease with which a syphon can be made. I didn't want to include it due to low quality pic, and nosey background but if there is any interest I can retake the picture with a decent camera. It's a syphon I made from a runner bean stalk, making syphons from plant stalks is common in Kurdistan. Wolfmankurd 18:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Siphon bottles?

Surely these so-called siphon bottles are simply pressurized bottles. According to the article, "It is a siphon in the sense that pressure drives the liquid through a tube." So if I suck liquid from a bottle through a straw (OK let's say the straw is an integral part of the bottle) that would make it a siphon? Of course not. I know these are popularly called "soda siphons" but surely that is a misnomer? A fountain (in fact any plumbing installation) also has pressure driving liquid through a tube, but that does not make it a siphon.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to clarify. The term "siphon bottle" appears to be a well-known historical term so I would object to the term being completely removed from the article. But by all means clarify that it is a misnomer. Samw 12:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure my O-level science is up to it, but I will consult elsewhere.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

World Of Warcraft reference

Is it entirely necessary? A lot of the Wikipedia population likely do not know even what WoW is and I suspect a proportionally negligible amount of readers/editors will actually want to know about the clan. Thus is fails WP:NOTE. I suggest we either create a new article & disambiguation or remove it entirely; I vote the latter. --poorsod^talk 21:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]