Talk:Fifth grade
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The navigational template on this page (and other grade pages) originally indicated that it was specifically tracking the progression of the U.S. educational system. User:Silsor's misdirected Ameriphobia caused him to remove that indication, so now the template suggests that it is now tracking the progression of all worldwide educational systems, which of course it is not. He has not been able/willing to discuss it reasonably with me, and I'm not interested in a fight over it. I personally would think that the best solution to a nation-centrism problem is to add information, not remove information. - KeithTyler
from VfD:
IMO superfluous information about "fifth grade". --Logariasmo 01:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Redirect to primary education. --Slowking Man 03:07, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
- Agree with redirect. Also potentially inaccurate; my junior high started with seventh grade. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 03:08, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
- Redirect. Also potentially inaccurate because it assumes that everyone uses the American education system. -- Necrothesp 12:32, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Redirect. Also incorrect because fith graders are usually 10, not 11 years old (at least at the start of the year). Dsmdgold 13:25, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete - Just to offer a different opinion, this (IMO) is not worth keeping. ClockworkTroll 17:22, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. Inaccurate dictdef. How grades correspond to schools depends on the district (or at least the state)—when I was in grade school, 5th grade was in middle school. — Gwalla | Talk 18:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- It's not inaccurate, it's incomplete. If you know of a system that differs, add those details. anthony (see warning) 03:51, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I finally made it look more accurate and encyclopedic. Any comments?? 66.245.13.101 20:21, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Yes. Remember that just because Americans do things one way does not mean the whole world does. Nowhere does it say that this only applies to the United States. -- Necrothesp 19:16, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. There is no way these generalities are accurate, and the less absolute they get the less useful the article. Postdlf 21:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete, no redirect. Not encyclopedic. --Improv 21:56, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete Even with the improvements, there is such variation between what is taught in various 5th grades that the article is bound to be substantially inaccurate for a large number of people. Joyous, 5th grade teacher
- Amazingly, somehow the kindergarten article is able to talk about the variations without being inaccurate. There's no reason an article on fifth grade can't do the same thing. anthony (see warning) 03:56, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Delete-- can we even assume that "Xth grade" always refers to a school level? KeithTyler 00:31, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)- A begrudging vote to Redirect somewhere sensible. - KeithTyler 07:13, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
- If you've got a different usage for the term, please do add it. anthony (see warning) 03:53, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Comment Shouldn't this be called Grade 5 in any case? 132.205.15.42 03:18, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Redirect to primary education, if it turns out to be ambiguous, disambiguate it. —siroχo 05:55, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
- keep. anthony (see warning) 22:14, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. Intrigue 18:33, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete: the only things that can be safely said are dictdef things. There is no way to say more than "comes after fourth and precedes sixth, is part of middle school" without being wrong about it somewhere. Geogre 20:41, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Please, we have a whole article on primary education. That article says much more than just "comes before secondary education". There are a lot of generalizations that can be made, and the differences in different school systems is what makes the article useful in the first place. If everyone used the same system, then the article would be useless, because everyone would already know the facts in it. But systems are different, and if someone from say the UK is reading something that mentions "American fifth graders", they can come to this article on "fifth grade" and see what that means. But not if it's deleted, without at least keeping a redirect. anthony (see warning) 03:47, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Does this mean we should have articles about second, third, ..., twelfth grade? And if, i.e. Nepal and Mongolia also have different systems, that they should also be listed? If there's an article about a book, should we detail every chapter as a separate article? And every character? Don't you think it becomes potentially redundant at large for an encyclopedia? It is indeed nice that there is information available about the most diverse subjects, but is this type of diversity informative? Also, when the information becomes this excessive, it becomes more and more difficult to find articles and to update them so that they remain accurate. Just my opinion..--200.32.109.207 06:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't see a problem with an article on each grade. There certainly should be a redirect or a disambiguation page for each. Whether or not articles on books should be split by chapter depends on how big the article is. We have guidelines on when an article is too small and should be split, just as we have guidelines on when an article is too large and should be merged. It's certainly not an issue which needs to be taken to VfD. The term "fifth grade" gets 655,000 google hits. It's perfectly reasonable that someone might look the term up in Wikipedia. If they do, they should at least get a redirect. anthony (see warning) 14:38, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Does this mean we should have articles about second, third, ..., twelfth grade? And if, i.e. Nepal and Mongolia also have different systems, that they should also be listed? If there's an article about a book, should we detail every chapter as a separate article? And every character? Don't you think it becomes potentially redundant at large for an encyclopedia? It is indeed nice that there is information available about the most diverse subjects, but is this type of diversity informative? Also, when the information becomes this excessive, it becomes more and more difficult to find articles and to update them so that they remain accurate. Just my opinion..--200.32.109.207 06:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Please, we have a whole article on primary education. That article says much more than just "comes before secondary education". There are a lot of generalizations that can be made, and the differences in different school systems is what makes the article useful in the first place. If everyone used the same system, then the article would be useless, because everyone would already know the facts in it. But systems are different, and if someone from say the UK is reading something that mentions "American fifth graders", they can come to this article on "fifth grade" and see what that means. But not if it's deleted, without at least keeping a redirect. anthony (see warning) 03:47, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Has this article yet gotten its VFD consensus?? What is its consensus?? 66.245.90.209 00:21, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I would say that the consensus —if any— is "not keep". The majority has voted either in favor of a redirect to "Primary education" or for a "Delete" altogether.--Mfolozi 05:53, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Both redirect and keep are versions of keep. But there isn't consensus for even this. anthony (see warning) 18:05, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I would say that the consensus —if any— is "not keep". The majority has voted either in favor of a redirect to "Primary education" or for a "Delete" altogether.--Mfolozi 05:53, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- To be fair, I have to say that as long as the article indicates (or better yet, differentiates) that it is talking about the American school system, it is encyclopedic. For starters, anyone who is not American who hears about someone in the U.S. who is in "fifth grade" would benefit greatly from such an article. - KeithTyler 07:15, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
- As I don't know anything about non-American school systems, I'll leave this differentiation or indication to someone who does (apparently some of the people who have made notes above). anthony (see warning) 18:06, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
end moved discussion