Talk:Frankie Valli

Birthdate

According to the liner notes in the Bear Family Records release entitled 'The Four Lovers' (BCD 15424), Peter Grendysa writes:

"...The baby of the family, Tommy DeVito (born June 19, 1928)..." "...In 1940, older brother Nickie (born September 12, 1924)..." "...with the older guys was Frankie Castelluccio (born May 3, 1934)..." "...with the addition of Nick Macioci (born September 19, 1927)..." "...the piano player for the Royal Teens (Short Shorts), Bob Gaudio (born November 17, 1942)..." "...Bob Crewe, a producer and writer born in Belleville, New Jersey on November 12, 1931..."

If you get your hands on the CD, you will see he does cite sources and documents the history of Frankie quite well.

If anyone chooses not to believe it, that's certainly anyone's right. 66.74.72.80 19:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)Bbrownlie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbrownlie (talk • contribs) 15:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

(copied from User talk:65.68.207.28)

Hello. I reverted your 31 Jul 2005 edit changing Frankie Valli's birthyear to 1934. I doubt you know what's on his driver's license because that's a private matter. The year 1934 is hardly relevant at all as Frankie Valli's birthyear. And why would Frankie Valli change his birthyear by just three years?! Marcus2 12:00, 9 Aug 2005 (UTC)

The mug shot of Valli seen at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/fvallimug1.html may have been made up. His hair color is dark brown. Marcus2 15:55, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC)

According to one site, http://www.planetshoup.com/easy/seasons/otherquest.shtml, Frankie was born in 1937. Under "Miscellaneous", it says "Found - He was born in 1937, in either May or December (he was 19 when he released an album with The Four Lovers in 1956)." Marcus2 11:45, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Marcus -- I was seeing the Four Seasons live before you were born and I have all the Four Lovers records before they even became the Four Seasons. Marcus, Frankie had his first solo hit (My Mother's Eyes) in 1953. He would have been 16 years old if he was born in 1937. He WASN'T -- he was already out of high school and was 19. The Four Lovers, the Variatones, etc., were active throughout the 1950's. When the Four Seasons finally made it (after changing their name), their age was something of an embarrassment. They were a good 10 years older than the Beach Boys. The record companies thought no kids would listen to a band in their 30's. Frankie was 28 when Sherry became a hit, and the record company thought it would be better if he were considered 25, so his age was changed. But his real age and birthdate (1934) were on the back of the Four Lovers album. Then, when the Four Seasons were arrested in Columbus Ohio for not paying for the hotel rooms the prior year, Frankie's mug shot became public, and based on his driver's license and police record it became obvious that he was born in 1934. Also, Tommy DeVito was born in 1933 and everything you read says he was one year older than Frankie. You even got Frankie's hair color wrong, because you weren't born when he had his real color. It was pitch black. It started going gray in the 70's (totally gray sides) and he colored his hair -- all before you were born Marcus. When you put 1937 as his birthdate, you are doing nothing but relying on a date given in publicity releases. The Web site you just quoted, saying "found" about his birthdate, is run by a woman who knows nothing about the Four Seasons -- her Web site poses questions about them, and the "found" entries show what people have written in to her, providing answers. On many of the questions there are several contradictory "founds" for the same question! Half of the info on that site is wrong -- it has incorrect lyrics, lists the wrong albums that songs first appeared on, etc. That site is a mess. I directed you to the official fan club - people who have known Frankie for years. Joe Long (the Four Seasons' bass player after Nick Massi -- for 10 years) is in our group, as is John Paiva who was in the 70's "Who Love You" Four Seasons. It is public record that he is now well over 70 and he was born in 1934. I've given two OFFICIAL references to his age -- his certified police mug shot (as obtained and provided by Court TV which owns Smokinggun.com) and his official fan club. All you have are hearsay rumours to back you up. Here is a third "source" -- his astrology chart, prepared based on his true 1934 birthdate: http://www.astrotheme.fr/en/portraits/7P4B4aq2wWxb.htm.

I am not forcing you to believe that Frankie was born in 1937, but you can't force other people (particularly me) to believe that he was born in 1934. The following are mostly my perceptions from what I've seen and read. He wanted to drop out of high school to make a singing career, and was likely to be with a group called the Travellers when he cut "My Mother's Eyes". His hair color is not pitch black: as seen from 1960s photos his hair color is very dark brown. I don't believe everything I hear over the Internet, not even some Frankie Valli fan clubs. And the only sources of "public record" are contributed by people like you. And for the rest of your argumentation, I don't believe you. And that third "source" you gave me is from a French website. It is they who know hardly anything about Frankie, and it is they who are a mostly corrupted people. Marcus2 23:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Marcus -- here's my fourth source and absolute proof. An interview with Frankie, his wife, his father, his mother, Bob Gaudio, you name it. All is confirmed, please read the article carefully. If you are a fan, you will. His age is confirmed - 28 when he recorded Sherry, and he needed the hit because he was poor and had a family at that age. He was 42 in 1976. His hair was jet black, but he colors it now. Each and every thing confirmed in this interview by Frankie and his parents. Here's your proof: http://genuine-imitation-life-gazette.com/IMAGES/RockLives.html

I still don't believe you. It is a bit naïve of you to believe everything that this guy claimed to have written about this interview of Frankie's parents. In fact, I have read this article before you brought it up, and I'm still not convinced. ALso, some of this guy's facts in his original edition are just plain wrong. He is none of a Four Seasons' expert and some of his details of his interviews may be a myth. Marcus2 17:30, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Is it confirmed that Frankie left the Travellers to join DeVito and company? I thought is was DeVito who discovered him. Also, check out http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0885110/ . Another website that mentions his birthdate as 1937.

As for the Travellers, no -- this article is all messed up. Frankie started his career with DeVito. Frankie Valley and the Traveller's was simply Frankie, DeVito, and others. DeVito even played on Frankie's first solo recording, "My Mother's Eyes." I have sent Marcus private and very confidential information proving Frankie's birthdate. The Web sites which mention the 1937 birthdate are simply repeating what was published in early publicity releases for the Four Seasons. Those same sources put DeVito's birthdate in 1936, but he was actually born in 1928. Nick Massi was born in 1927 (verifiable through his obituaries as well -- he died in 2000 at 72, almost 73). Frankie was six years younger than Tommy and 7 years younger than Massi. If you go to the fan site, www.genuine-imitation-life-gazette.com, there are many articles, interviews, and scanned images from publications with the history of the Four Lovers and Four Seasons, which give the correct birthdates for all the members of the band. In the 60's kids listened to bands their own age, or in their teens and twenties. Valli was 28 with a family and two kids when Sherry was recorded, and Massi and DeVito were in their mid-30's already. It was presumed that the kids would not accept that, so all their birth years were changed (only in publicity releases) by the record company. DeVito was cast as one year older than Frankie, when really he was 6 years older. DeVito now has no qualms about his age of 77 years, and doesn't cover it up anymore. Bob Gaudio, who joined last was the youngest, born in the 1940's. Devito and Massi were already 18 or 19 years old in the late 1940's and were in other bands. The Four Seasons essentially had a ten year career under the names of other bands before they hit it for the first time with Sherry.

Okay, I pretty much believe you about Frankie's actual birthdate (sent to me by E-mail), and I think I do about the others. Just one more concern. You once said that DeVito was born in 1933. Where did that come from? Marcus2 13:18, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I glad you guys were able to work this out. Agnte 13:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Public records available on ancestry.com (subscription required) gives the age of a Frankie Valli living in Calabasas, CA, as 71. A newspaper article from June 1984 says he is 49. The paper may have gotten the info from his marriage license. If he got the license before his last birthday that would make him born in 1934.

According to this NNDB site, http://www.nndb.com/people/976/000023907/, Frankie got married on July 7, 1984 to Randy Clohessy. Marcus2 02:45, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Now that the issue of his birthdate seems to be "settled"...

... let's see if this can be cleaned up, POV removed, expanded, organized, and fully cited to the point of being an article worthy of Frankie Valli's half century of songmaking.147.70.242.40 01:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

A question about the Devitos

I did not know or realize that the DeVito brothers were twins (as I read the biography posted here). Is that true? I only question it because it doesn't sound right to me. As far as the early pre-history of The 4 Seasons, I always liked the chronology of events presented in the Bear Family booklet of their CD release entitled 'The Four Lovers'. This seemed like the best presented history of those years.