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November 19

What do South Asian peasantry wear to protect themselves from the sun?

In Southeast Asia the rural folk wear conical hats, so surely South Asians also have protection?

lots of issues | leave me a message 05:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by "South Asain"? Indians? "South Central Asia" like the middle-east?

PS: It's better if you use internal links like [[User:Lotsofissues|lots of issues]] (Result: lots of issues) than external links like you're doing. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Modest South Asian women (not necessarily peasants) wear their dupatta so that it covers their hair. If you click on the article, you'll see that the woman in the right of the top photo is using hers as a sunshade. --M@rēino 21:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
• Oh, I forgot! In some situations, it's perfectly acceptable for a man to soak a turban in cold water, which protects him against the sun's heat (although not so much against harsh sunlight). --M@rēino 21:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

How does one fart on command?

How does one fart on command? What preparation is reguried? Thank you for your help in this matter. Weasly (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

This requires considerable practice and constant vigilance on the part of the practicant. The first stage is the obtaining of the gaseous emission. Usually this amounts to a slow accumulation of small amounts until it is felt (both literally and metaphorically) that sufficient is available when required. However, this brings us to a quite difficult part of the practice, the emitting of small amounts to retain a reasonable state of digestive comfort but not so much as to deplete the available store. This will normally be held in the appropriate receptacle known as the (..........) insert name as required. On the command being received the participant should be in a position to oblige. However, under no circumstances should the command be obeyed with any force or vigour. The reasons for this are firstly that the deposit of gas may be depleted too quickly and the participant will be unable to repeat the order if required and secondly there may be laundry implications.

I hope that helps. Richard Avery (talk) 11:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

See Flatulist. Le Pétomane, a famous French flatulist, gave himself an enema everyday to ensure that there were no unpleasant smells, but then his ability was unusual, in that he could fart indefinitely (he could take in air through the anus, rather than having to rely on the digestive system to produce the gases). Professional flatulence was once a very profitable business (Le Pétomane was paid more than almost any other celebrity, while Roland the Farter was given a 30 acre manor in exchange for farting once a year at Christmas!) Laïka 13:39, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You can do it by "inhaling" so to speak into, the intestines from the outside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.102.55 (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Rotary vs foil razors?

Due to sensitive skin and labourious nature of manual shaving, I'm thinking of giving electric razors a try. Would get a chargable and washable razor. If they could shave other areas such as armpit, nads etc that would be an added bonus. Did a little research about them. However, a few questions remain and a new questions have popped up. First about foil razors: Are the ones with 2 or 3 foils better than the one with 1 foil?. Do the foils last longer than rotary cutters?. Do they have a larger shaving surface than rotary razors?.

and about the rotary razors: do they offer a better shave than foils? are they better for people who get razor bumps?

about both: what to look for when choosing one? and what to avoid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.26 (talk) 14:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I've found (rotary) electric shavers much more irritating than manual shaving with a safety. FiggyBee (talk) 22:43, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't get as good a shave from a rotary than from a safety (although I don't shave at all at the moment. It's important to keep up on the maintenance on a rotary, or the performance is quite less than optimal. Steewi (talk) 05:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I use a foil shaver and it is nearly as good as a hand razor. Apparantly, the foil ones give a closer shave and I would have thought they would also cause less irritation than a rotary one.

GaryReggae (talk) 12:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Wireless Earphones

How does wireless earphones work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.225.37 (talk) 14:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fundamentally, it's a transmitter/receiver pair. The precise technology can vary, but solutions are found in the same frequency bands as cordless phones and other consumer wireless devices. Bluetooth, for instance, runs around 2.4 GHz, and is commonly used by newer wireless headsets. — Lomn 14:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Bluetooth is a bit more subtle than just a transmitter/receiver pair - the headset has to negotiate with the phone (or whatever) to agree on how they will communicate. Bluetooth is a digital network protocol. This is what allows (for example) 10 people crammed together in an elevator to all use their headsets at once without interfering with each other. SteveBaker (talk) 17:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[[Media:

Measure of Effects of Alcoholic beverages

Is there a boundary for Alcoholic beverages effects(immediate effect) which lower than that percent,the harms and effects will be wiped out?Flakture (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not known. Several recent studies have suggested that moderate consumption of alcohol (on the order of 1 drink per day) may actually reduce a person's risk of certain diseases (including heart disease). It may be a balancing question—is there a tradeoff between slightly increased liver toxicity and decreased risk of cardiovascular illness?

Also worth noting is that a small amount of ethanol is present naturally in the body, produced by various mechanisms: [1]. Is this endogenous alcohol detrimental? Would we be better or worse off if it weren't present? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean the immediate effects or the effects of long-term consumption? Rmhermen (talk) 16:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I mean immediate effects.Flakture (talk) 13:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this site okay to use...?

Someone Is Missing -

If someone you know comes up missing... This website will supply you with the following; A web address to use immediately Web space, and our abilities for as long as you need Taxa (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Are you asking a question, or placing an advertisement? If you're doing the latter, you're pretty foolish; this page will be archived in a few days and generate very little traffic thereafter. --M@rēino 16:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I think they're either a) asking if the site is legit, and will do what it says rather than run off with any info you give them or b) asking if it's okay to use the site (as a reference?) in Wikipedia. 130.88.140.7 (talk) 16:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the advertisement stuff. That said, I'm very skeptical of the "we'll be a household name and deter would-be kidnappers!" claptrap. They won't, it won't, and there are far more visible forms of media already available (namely, local TV news). I suppose that every little thing might help in a missing-persons case, but this looks like a waste of time. — Lomn 16:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

From first impressions, the fact that it is a very amateurish looking website rings my internal alarm bells. Also reading the terms and conditions on the site, a full privacy policy is mentioned in passing but I can't seem to find one anywhere in the domain. The site doesn't seem to have any formal links/agreements with any Law Enforcement agencies and seems to me to be run purely by a group of volunteers. The 'List a Person' page/form is also not secure. There are other, more official sites such as theyaremissed.org (USA), missingpeople.org.uk (UK) (and many others) which are run by charities or law enforcement agencies that do this kind of thing a lot better. (in my opinion). 81.76.37.180 (talk) 17:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that members of the public are going to go there on a regular basis to see if anyone they know the whereabouts of just happens to be listed missing. If a lost child shows up needing help - I trust that one's first call would be to 911 - not to go look at some web site just on the offchance of seeing who they belong to! That being the case, it's hard to imagine that this is going to be of much use. On the other hand, desperate parents, looking for anything they can possibly do to locate a lost child will get some comfort from the feeling that they did one more thing with a chance of helping in the search - so I suppose it's not a complete waste. I'm skeptical that the site managed to locate 3 missing persons - I suspect that what they are really saying is that three missing persons on their site have been located (but not because of their publicity perhaps). At worst, this site may be merely well-meaning but ineffective - at best, if it helps in locating just one person then it's more than worth all of the effort to maintain it. It's hard to imagine any kind of scam that might be involved. SteveBaker (talk) 17:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

For 911, of course, read "their local emergency telephone number". Funny, I'd gotten the impression Steve was British (their number would be 999 or 112). --Anon, edited 18:08 UTC, Nov. 19.

(I am British - but I live in Texas - and the habit of saying 911 is hard to break! Fortunately, most non-Americans know what 911 is.) SteveBaker (talk) 18:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

• Several people already mentioned holes in this site. If you ever need to coordinate the search for a missing person. Get together with media and law enforcement officials and get out an official Amber Alert if you're in the United States and the missing person is a kid. People are more likely to watch a website if it is part of an official missing persons organization. Small organizations won't do much to boost visibility. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Jayhawk, Dolphin team colors

I was curious about the team colors for the Jayhawks after seeing their football game highlights, and it brought to my mind a similar question for the NFL's Miami Dolphins. The jayhawks' page says blue and red, but is it a certain shade of blue? Because it almost looks closer to purple at times, by what I remember of their basketball games. other times, it's more clearly blue. It's a *very* deep Royal, anyway; don't know what you'd call it. The settings were not changed on the TV's contrast, brightness, etc. This brought to my mind a similar question for the Dolphins. At times, I recall their non-white uniforms look bluer, and at other times greener. The blue is clearly Aqua like your site lists (and like the blue of the dolphin on their helmet), but the other looked kind of washed out, meaning the couple times I saw that on TV, it might have been an effect from washing that made them look a little different.4.68.248.130 (talk) 16:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Teams tend to have fairly specific (and sometimes trademarked) colors used. The St. Louis Rams, for instance, moved from blue and yellow to "New Century Gold" and "Millennium Blue" when they changed color schemes around 2000. There's probably a specific Pantone designation for each of those. On the other hand, there are cases like the Tennessee Volunteers where, despite being readily identified by "orange", at least three different shades of orange have been on a uniform at once.[2] — Lomn 16:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've always believed that teams change their colours regularly in order to improve sales of replica uniforms to their fans - so this may be a deliberate change, introduced to make every fan want to buy "this season's" uniforms. But it's also possible that the more subtle differences you are seeing are due to different stadium lighting (day versus night games, one football field versus another) - or in the automatic or manual adjustments made during TV production at the whim of producers and cameramen - or even whether you are watching TV with the room lights on or off. Colour perception is a complicated matter and it's really easily messed up. So if even if it was something as subtle as the colour of the grass beind different in the various cases, you might be subject to the Same color illusion for example. SteveBaker (talk) 17:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

If you want very detailed information about team colors, I recommend the Society for Sports Uniform Research. (I have chatted often on another forum with the person who runs this site, and his reputation for completeness and accuracy is excellent.) — Michael J 21:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Top of a tall tower

Is there a name/word/article given to the act of bottleing up ones emotions for years before going to the top of something tall and starting to shoot randomly with a rifle. An/or what people should do instead, if not Ill let you know... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 17:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

This has happened very few times in recent history - so it's unlikely there is a clear, simple name for it - we certainly have articles about some (if not all) of the times it's happened. (Charles Whitman, the Beltway sniper attacks and of course the John F. Kennedy assassination come to mind). In terms of what a deranged person might do instead - there are plenty of options that don't involve killing a bunch of innocent people and then end up (typically) with a slow and painful death (or a lifetime in jail) after being gunned down by police. Psychotherapy would probably be the most obvious (and perhaps, extreme) alternative - but there are many others. Simply yelling and screaming from a suitably high (and hopefully deserted) place would probably be just as effective at getting rid of pent up rage and frustration - taking up adrenaline-depleting extreme sports might be another. After throwing a car violently around an autocross track several times, one feels an inner calmness that's hard to beat - it's a cheap and fairly safe sport. SteveBaker (talk) 18:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend moderate-intensity aerobic exercise as a way of releasing tension. I'm not sure of a word for bottling up one's emotions, but the apathetic free feeling beforehand can be described as fey. -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{Articles touched by my noodly appendage} 18:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Modern popular parlance would term this type of activity as going postal, the formal name for it in some circles is a killing spree or running amok. 81.76.37.180 (talk) 19:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Psychotic break?--droptone (talk) 20:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It is, of course, a subset of a nervous breakdown Steewi (talk) 05:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Mr. and Mrs. Jane Doe

Amanda Gamble writes that a couple must always be referred to under the man's name if they are to be called Mr. and Mrs., and that "Mrs. Jane Doe" is only used for divorced women. Do progressive and feminist etiquetticians agree with this? Similarly, do they allow a man to call himself "Mr. Jane Doe" if he is less famous than his wife? Also, do same-sex couples become "Mr. and Mr." and "Mrs. and Mrs.", or "Messrs." and "Mdms."? NeonMerlin 23:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of a Mr. Jane Doe style but the rest sounds the right. With people concerned with feminist etiquette (e.g. my wife) you use Ms. Jane Doe even if they are married. I'm not sure that this is widely followed, though, but if my wife insists on it being proper etiquette it probably is, though I'm usually mystified by such customs and somehow grew up ignorant of them. No clue about same-sex couples—the rules of etiquette are, as you have no doubt noted, extremely heteronormal and favor the old idea of a woman as a man's property, so applying it to homosexual relationships is going to somewhat upend the whole project in my view. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 23:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it's outdated and undoubtedly sexist - but the idea is that the woman "takes the mans name" - and that includes both first and second name in this case. So "Mr & Mrs John Doe" is correct. It is presumed that if the woman doesn NOT wish to take her husbands name then it'll be "Mr John Doe & Mrs Jane Throatwarbler-Mangrove". The option of the man taking his wifes name is presumably also possible - but I've never heard of it happening. SteveBaker (talk) 02:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That sounds a little odd Steve - In my experience not many women call themselves Mrs <Maiden name>. FiggyBee (talk) 03:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, probably Ms <Maiden name> - but that doesn't really change what I was saying. SteveBaker (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm old enough to remember my mother being referred to as "Mrs (Dad's given name) (Dad's surname)". It still happens in very formal circumstances like the awarding of British Honours. If the famous writer Jane Smith is awarded an honour, and she's married to Norman Nonentity, her name will appear in the Honours List as "Mrs Norman Nonentity (Jane Smith)". The idea of Mrs being attached to a wife's given name (Jane) is relatively recent, but is now almost universal, and only the most abject pedants would take exception to it. That's where "Mrs" is used at all, which is increasingly uncommon - "Ms" is far more common these days, for married and unmarried women alike, and for good reasons imo. Or, indeed, no title at all. The "Mr Jane Doe" style is merely jocular; I suppose the otherwise non-notable Larry Fortensky might have been referred to occasionally as "Mr Elizabeth Taylor" after someone asked "Larry who?", but his actual name was always (Mr) Larry Fortensky.

On the same-sex thing, and again it would only apply in very formal circumstances, I guess if Sir Elton John was invited to a Buckingham Palace garden party and partners were also invited, the invitation would be addressed to "Sir Elton John and Mr David Furnish". I'm sure there would be cases where one same-sex married person has changed their surname to their partner's, or where they've both adopted the same different surname (eg. Barry Blue married Robert Red and they become Barry Purple and Robert Purple), but I can't think of any notable cases. I guess it'd be "Mr Barry Purple and Mr Robert Purple", not "Mr and Mr Barry and Robert Purple". -- JackofOz (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

One further thought. Mrs Jane Doe is used not only for divorced women but for widowed women. The protocol I had drummed into me, and I still abide by with elderly people, was that:

• whenever I wrote to a married woman who uses Mrs (and they all did back then), for example, to thank my grandmother for Christmas/birthday presents I had probably already broken, the envelope was addressed to "Mrs (husband's name or initial) (husband's surname)" - eg. if my grandparents were Ambrose and Felicity Splinge, I'd write to grandma Felicity as "Mrs A Splinge" or "Mrs Ambrose Splinge"
• but if grandpa Ambrose were to die (because, heaven forbid, divorce was not only unknown and unthinkable in my family but so unmentionable that the protocol didn't even contemplate such a circumstance; seriously, the first divorced person I ever met was when I was about 16), then I'd write to Mrs F Splinge or Mrs Felicity Splinge.

Mind you, this was back before "Ms" had been invented, and Ms has swept away many or most of these notions, but people of my surviving aunts' generation (one's just turned 90, and they're all at least 85; all widowed) appreciate these sorts of things from their (obviously) favourite nephew.

Also, when writing to a couple, the husband's name takes precedence not only in the surname itself but also in the order of titles - Mr & Mrs A Splinge, never Mrs & Mr. It's easy to work out why it's that way: our society is patrilinear - it's short for "Mr Ambrose Splinge (the head of the family) and his wife, whatever her name is". But it's also odd given that the culture in which these conventions thrived was also the culture that insisted on "ladies first", an audience is always addressed as "Ladies and gentlemen", never "Gentlemen and ladies", etc. Funny, I'd never noticed that anomaly before. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Ick. I've talked it over with my boyfriend (silly git won't propose until he can work fulltime and he's not graduated yet) and I've told him while I'm willing to take his last name, Mrs James <lastname> just sounds bad to me. Is that REALLY that far out of the norm these days? Kuronue | Talk 18:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

My advice is to forget the formalities. Just call yourself "<your first name> <his surname>". If some form asks what your title is, choose between Ms and Mrs (but use it consistently because some computer systems think that Ms Gertrude Goose-Creature is a different person from Mrs Gertrude Goose-Creature). You get to decide what you want to be known as, nobody else (with due respect to the sanctity of marriage and the attendant sensitivities). -- JackofOz (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 23:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

in the article about the frech national motto liberté is mistranslated

i am a french speaker and i have become aware that the article of liberté egalité et fraternité has been mistranslated liberté is not liberty but freedom i am not a registered user of wikipedia so could someone edit this ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.23.48.9 (talk) 23:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What meaning of the word 'liberty' do you think is intended here, that is not 'freedom'? Skittle (talk) 00:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If you compare the meanings of the English words "Liberty" and "Freedom" in Wiktionary, you'll find that both definitions for freedom are included in the many meanings of liberty. All of the other meanings of liberty that are relevent here contain the word 'free' or 'freedom'. So as far as Wiktionary is concerned, they mean exactly the same thing (unless you are using "liberty" in the sense of a sailor's vacation or "taking a liberty" as in breaking a social convention). So I think you can translate liberté either way - and given the choice, it makes sense to pick the word that has the closest sound to the French word. Anyway, my wife is native-born French and has spent a good fraction of her life in various English speaking countries and she says: "Either liberty or freedom is OK but liberty sounds better." So, no - please don't change the article - you wouldn't want to upset my wife...trust me on this one! SteveBaker (talk) 02:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

side note: one does not have to be a registered user to edit an article (except when it's protected, which the article on france isn't) Cryo921 (talk) 04:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

November 20

Illegal/Navy

Can an Illegal Immigrant join the Navy,or the air force,army,marines,coast-guards etc.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.170.104.24 (talk) 00:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Im almost 100% to join the the U.S militaary you have to be a LEGAL U.S citizen. If you try to join at least one of these 3 will happen.

• 1. You will be detained then proably deported
• 2. possibly granted a greencard or something
• 3. Told you cant join and be let go.

Im no expert on what will happen though so takes theses with a grain of salt if you are illegal and try to join. Esskater11 01:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, you don't have to be a citizen, but you have to be a legal resident. My last ship had a couple of non-citizens. BTW, you generally do have to be a citizen to hold a security clearance and not having a clearance limits your job opportunities within the Navy (and other services)> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.128.41 (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You certainly don't have to be a Citizen - and serving with the US military puts you on a fast-track to getting citizenship when you leave the service. There was a piece on NPR the other day about non-citizens who were in the US military and had been killed in Iraq - there was some kind of scandal about the subsequent fate of their families (who were also non-citizens)...I forget the details. However, I'm also doubtful that they'd accept an illegal immigrant. It might be possible to go back to ones country of origin and apply to join from there - since everything would then be legal, maybe that's OK. But I don't know for sure. You'd need to check with a military recruitment person. SteveBaker (talk) 18:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Fuck i always mix the words citiznes and residents up. Have you ever been thinkinh of one word then said another well...Esskater11 04:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

No, you don't. A neighbour of mine joined the US army (I'm in Ireland) and got citezenship soon after leaving. He apparently got a great penision too--Phoenix-wiki ^{(talk · contribs)} 16:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

An essay about the well-meaning but misguided

I once ran across an essay/commentary on the problem of 'difficult users' or 'challenging users'. I'm fairly certain it was once linked to by a Wikipedia editor in a discussion, but I don't recall where the essay was hosted. (It seems like a Meatball Wiki kind of thing, but I can't locate it there.)

Generally speaking, it discussed the issue of individuals whose intentions were unquestionably good, but whose continued participation in or contributions to a project or community were ultimately detrimental. It examined the conflicting interests at work, and acknowledged that in some cases a community must sometimes eject a good-faith but incompatible contributor.

If I recall correctly, the specific case study looked at a mailing list for some sort of open-source software project. Most of the major contributors to the list were developers who were actually cranking out code, but one of the most-frequent messsagers was a kibitzer. It was widely agreed that he was a nice guy, but he wasn't writing code and his frequent messages were a distraction to the developers. After a number of pleas to him to reduce his frequency of posting and/or increase his contribution to the work, the decision was finally taken to ban him from the mailing list.

Ultimately, one of the developers went so far as to telephone the kibitzer, to explain matters. Despite their best efforts, the kibitzer never really understood why he'd been banned.

If anyone has seen this essay, or can point me to one on a similar theme, I'd be much obliged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TenOfAllTrades (talk • contribs) 00:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Saddam Hussein and Terrorism

Hello:

I am a bit confused about Saddam Hussein's connection to terrorism. I was wondering if someone could answer the following questions I had regarding this:

1. Was Saddam Hussein a terrorist? 2. Did Saddam Hussein fund terrorism? (If so, did he fund terrorism in Iraq, specifically?)

Thanks,

--Vikramkr (talk) 00:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No and no. Saddam cracked down on terrorist groups, as when you're a secular dictator of a country you don't want a bunch of religious extremists running around blowing things up. In fact, we have a whole article on this at Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda! -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 00:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't mistake "terrorism" as being synonymous with "al Qaeda" or even "religious fundamentalists". There have been terrorists long before al Qaeda (e.g. Shining Path, Organisation de l'armée secrète, Pablo Escobar, Timothy McVeigh) and there are many branches of terrorism today unrelated to al Qaeda or Islam at all. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My understanding, though I don't know much about it, is that at various times Saddam Hussein's government did support terrorist groups operating outside of Iraq. They did not include al Qaeda, and I'm not sure whether these groups were effective or how long this support lasted (or in what form). If I recall he "sponsored" (again, of what sort?) terrorism against Israel and Iran in particular, but again I'm not sure of the details off-hand. See, e.g., Abu Nidal, which has some lines in it about the Iraqis sponsoring attacks against the Saudis, or the Iranian Embassy Siege. He would not have funded terrorism in his own state—terrorism is destabilizing and Saddam's state was characterized by (brutal) attempts at order. As for the question of whether he was a "terrorist", it depends a lot on what you mean by that. Personally I don't think it's the most useful analytical term by itself. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Today the word terrorist has no real meaning anymore. Anyone who kills alot is a terrorist. Saddam was a tyranical dictator who ordered the deaths of thousands of men and women to stay in power. But anyway, Props to 24.147 for bringing up pablo escobar. hes probaly the worst narco terrorist ever. Esskater11 02:13, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

As others have said, the word "terrorist" lacks a clear meaning. However, Saddam Hussein, by nearly all accounts a brutal dictator, was most famously accused of terrorism and ties to terrorism by the U.S. government. Critics of the U.S. government, however, cite evidence in support of allegations that the U.S. government has itself sponsored terrorism. Marco polo (talk) 02:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

A great book that recently came out is Mike Davis, Buda's Wagon: A Brief History of the Car Bomb. Highly recommended for those wanting to think about the global history of terrorism; it is a short book, a well-written book, a "fun" book, a depressing book. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 02:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• Saddam Hussein used to make payments of US$10-25K to the families of suicide bombers who had attacked Israeli targets, presumably to annoy the Israelis and raise his own image in the Arab world (source). When the GOP was beating the drum to attack Iraq in 2001-2003, it often would conflate his sponsorship of this kind of terrorism with having something to do with 9/11. As .187 notes, all terrorists aren't on the same team with Osama bin Laden playing the role of Cobra Commander. --Sean 14:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Carlos the Jackal had some association with Saddam but with anything to do with Carlos the details aren't exactly clear. Rmhermen (talk) 18:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Looking for an editorial

I am looking for an editorial or article from the Washington Post on Jim Gilmore on his tenure as governor of Virginia when Gilmore announced his presidential candidacy in December 2006 when Gilmore decided to run for president. The article or editorial was very critical of Gilmore and compared him to the current occupant of the White House. My google searches of wapo have been unsuccessful. Can you help me? --Blue387 (talk) 02:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

May I suggest going to your local library and asking them if they have microfiched archives of the Post? Or even, possibly, have kept back issues from 2006. Corvus cornix (talk) 20:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Tylenol vs no-name

Looking at a package of Tylenol painkillers, the only medicinal ingredients in the pill is acetaminophen. Would that mean that the rest of the pill has no medical effect and does not contribute to making one feel better? Alternatively, if one compares a pill of Tylenol with a pill of a lesser-known brand of acetaminophen painkiller, assuming the active ingredient is present in equal amounts in both pills, would it have the same effect in suppressing headaches and pain? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that the label on the lesser-known brand is accurate, then yes. Marco polo (talk) 02:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I always buy generic-brand painkillers, because they're just enormously less expensive, and they still work just fine. --Masamage ♫ 02:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My pharmacist, when I asked a similar question, told me that the generic-brands are usually equally effective, but have less control over the production (so 200mg might be somewhere between 180mg and 220mg), because they are manufactured more cheaply. They will also likely have a different make up in the non-active ingredients, which can be important for people with allergies. Steewi (talk) 05:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There was some upset about generic versions of drugs recently (not Tylenol) because the generic version didn't have the same time-release packaging that the original had. So the branded version would produce a gradual supply of the drug over several hours but the generic equivelant would dump the whole amount into your system in a couple of minutes. For some drugs this doesn't matter - but for others it's really serious. Anyway - those packaging details don't appear in the "active ingredient" list - so two versions of the medication could appear to be identical - but in practice operate very differently. SteveBaker (talk) 07:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

As well, aside from the amount of acetaminophen and flavour, are there any other difference between Tylenol for children and adult Tylenol? Acceptable (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I would check the package in that case. It may be a lower dosage, or using a time-release system so it absorbs more slowly in the body. -- Kesh (talk) 15:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Taco bell meat!!!

Ok i LOVEE taco bell, i mean love. i mean love in the sort of way that if taco bell was a girl id impregnat it. But i always eat tacos and everytime i eat the meat part im like theres no fucking way this is real meat. Sooooo ANYWAY is the meat in thier tacos real of like odd mystery meat thing. Esskater11 02:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but your desire to impregnate meat reminds me of Portnoy's Complaint, in which, at least in the book, Portnoy masturbates with the use of a piece of liver. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That’s Philip Roth for you. Has he ever written a book without a major sex scene? --S.dedalus (talk) 20:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's ground beef. What else would it be? See [3]. —Keenan Pepper 04:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Try looking up the local regulations for the definition of 'meat'. In Australia (if I remember correctly), in a meat pie, for example, 'meat' can include a whole list of animals (including some surprising ones, like bison, possum, and so on), and 'meat' only has to apply to 25% of the ingredients, the rest of which can be made up of gravy and textured vegetable protein. Steewi (talk) 05:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

According to this statement (warning- pdf file), Taco Bell meat does indeed has beef as its first ingredient, seasoned with lots of natural and not-so-natural flavors and some coloring. I was fascinated to see cocoa powder on the ingredients list; that's the secret ingredient that makes the meat in Cincinnati chili so yummy, too. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

After you cook the meat, grind it in a blender until it is the correct texture. This helps to keep the meat in the taco shell on buritto wrap, etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.64.190 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Mawson Station Antarctica

Could you guys please find me a logo or symbol representing Mawson Station in Antarctica? 58.163.140.103 (talk) 05:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I looked all over their website - and waded through a few hundred Google images hits - there doesn't seem to be anything like that. If they have a logo, they're awfully shy about showing it! The nearest things I found were general Australian Antarctic mission logos and some crappy commemorative coin. SteveBaker (talk) 07:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This could be it http://www.virtualantarctica.com/mawson2000/images/station_logo.gif (from [4]). There's also this generic Australian Government Department logo - "Australian Government - Department of the Environment and Water Resources - Australian Antarctic Division" - but it's rather small and not really worth putting in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.99.82.107 (talk) 10:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's bad. I found a postmark on page 11 of this from Australia Post (you'd better have a fast connection), and an image of the coin from the Perth Mint mentioned above. Neither is the logo. --Milkbreath (talk) 13:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Commercialization of fictional objects

What was the first fictional object (if we don't count religious texts as fiction, and therefore don't count things like the True Cross) to be turned into a real product and mass-marketed? Was it the Necronomicon? NeonMerlin 07:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it quite meets your criteria, but you may want to check out The Archies. They started out within the comics alright, but it's debatable whether they actually were a real group as such. Your question could be quite broad. If National Periodicals sold Superman capes in 1940, would that qualify? I don't know for a fact that they did, but there was a ton of Superman commercialization at the time, so I'd be surprised if they didn't. It wouldn't have been marketed as the "real" Superman's cape, however. Matt Deres (talk) 11:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

what about cans of Krusty Cola? I'm sure that there are various other Simpsons related merchandise which originated from the show. I think also there were some Jurassic Park items too. 83.104.131.135 (talk) 13:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

and, adding to the proof that Wikipedia does have an article for everything there's this List_of_products_in_The_Simpsons 83.104.131.135 (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

And of course - Wonka Bar's first appeared for sale in 1971. I would imagine that post-1940 (when we entered the television age) there are lots and lots of these. Pre-1940? we'll have to see what others can think of. 81.77.230.15 (talk) 13:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The waterbed may meet your requirements for being a fictional object that was later marketed. See Robert A. Heinlein for more. Dismas|^(talk) 14:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• H.G. Wells predicted atom bombs in The World Set Free (1914). I believe da Vinci drew some helicopter-type things. --Sean 14:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Though they weren't really anything like what atomic bombs ended up being. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Which in turn makes me think of Jules Verne. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not really got anything to do with commercial exploitation, though, has it? Whereas Fly Fishing by J.R. Hartley... 64.236.80.62 (talk) 16:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, but I did just say it made me think of... but you are correct. And good example. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankfully, atom bombs haven't been mass-marketed (yet...) shoy (^words _words) 17:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, they sort of have been. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

So, to summarize: What's the earliest thing we have so far? The first actual published Necronomicon was in 1973, so Wonka bars at 1971 knock that one out. Anything from The Simpsons is beaten by those two. The Archies...I dunno - iffy at best. Da Vinci's helicopter first flew as a practical vehicle in 1942 - but had been used as a toy by the Chinese in 400BC (1800 years before Da Vinci) - it's also arguable that it wasn't "fictional" - Da Vinci designed something that he believed would really be possible - so it wasn't technically fictional. Waterbeds were around in 1871 - long before Heinlein - so they were real before they were fiction and therefore out of the running. Fly Fishing by J.R.Hartley (whilst an EXCELLENT choice!) is far too recent. Atom bombs are from 1945 - and we might argue about whether they were sold - but Superman's cape in 1940 beats out everything so far (including any claim The Archies might have and that dubious helicopter).

It's hard to imagine that there isn't some example before 1940...but right now, I'm stuck for ideas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 18:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a 1939 cut-out paper doll set from Gullivers Travels. (Actually, I'm not sure this counts as a fictional object "made real") SteveBaker (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Coonskin caps arose from the popularity of the Davy Crockett shows in the 1950s. I had one. Corvus cornix (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Those were never fictional objects though - the native Americans were wearing them long before Davy Crockett famously didn't wear one at the Alamo. Yes - there is no evidence whatever that he wore one - it's an urban legend stemming from movies that depicted him that way. Still, I have to be careful what I say - Texans don't like to hear that - it'll upset them tomorrow while they are celebrating how the early "American" settlers saved the Indians from starvation by giving them turkey at thanksgiving.  :-P SteveBaker (talk) 14:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Does the creation of a new fictional name that is now commonplace count ? If so WENDY was invented for the sister in Peter Pan90.14.21.247 (talk) 16:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

And "Kim" comes from Show Boat. The character of Kim was born on the boat at the place where Kentucky, Illinois and Missouri come together. The book that the play is based on even mentions how everybody considered her name ugly because it was so unusual. Corvus cornix_talk 17:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't doubt the provenance of that particular character's name. And maybe it was very unusual for a girl at that time, but there would have been plenty of boy Kims by then, certainly in Britain and India. Rudyard Kipling's novel Kim predated Edna Ferber's novel by about 25 years. It was a huge seller in most English-speaking parts (which may or may not include the deep south). -- JackofOz (talk) 18:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Pamela (name) and Vanessa (name). —Tamfang (talk) 23:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Toy soldiers, dolls, and stuffed animals have been around forever, and in general many of them are taken from fiction, so I think your question is bounded by your definition of "mass-marketing." How about the Velveteen Rabbit? -Arch dude (talk) 19:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The Velveteen Rabbit would only count when someone actually started making velveteen rabbits - and I suspect that (just like toy soldiers, dolls and other stuffed animals), the actual toy existed BEFORE the fiction. Perhaps someone started making and selling actual velveteen rabbits that look exactly like the fictional one - but I don't see any evidence of that before 1940 - so Superman Capes are still the winners. It seems crazy that we can't come up with a clear pre-1940's example though...it's driving me nuts! SteveBaker (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Teddy bear, 1902. -Arch dude (talk) 00:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

How is a teddy bear a fictional object made real? SteveBaker (talk) 06:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I think we have a winner! My son takes the credit for this one: Chinese dragons and those dragon costumes that the Dragon dancers wear. They date back to the Han Dynasty - maybe 200 BC. In 4700 BC the Hongshan culture had carved Jade dragons so the fictional dragon long pre-dates the actual costume. SteveBaker (talk) 06:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the ultimate answer could well depend on the meaning of "mass-marketed". There might have been instances of neolithic humans creating, for example, decorative bowls featuring fictional characters from cave paintings, then marketing them to some extent in order to increase their barter value. Also, I suspect there might be some kind of example from Ancient Egypt, though I can't think of anything... on a slightly related note, it seems that the concept of a Phoenix is surprisingly ancient and universal. 130.88.79.77 (talk) 13:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• Ally Sloper was marketed extensively in the late 19th century Britain, the Yellow Kid a little later in the US. Hiding T 14:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Train Disappearences

We've all heard of disappearing ships (Mary Celeste and USS Cyclops (AC-4)) and disappearing planes (flight 19 etc.)

But have there been any train disappearences where the train completely vanished without a trace (like the USS Cyclops) or was found completely deserted (like the Mary Celeste)? --Wiki Fanatic | Talk 12:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The Phantom vehicle article mentions a ghost train in Indonesia in 2000, but the external link is in a language not English. A Google search for the incident turned up nothing. --Milkbreath (talk) 13:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

There was a sci-fi short story (which I would have sworn was by Isaac Asimov) about a small change in the Boston subway network that results in the network gaining infinite connectivity. As a result, a train disappears on the network. I can't find the story with Google, but if I can remember and no one beats me to it, I'll post more about it when I get home.

Atlant (talk) 14:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe you're referring to A Subway Named Mobius by Armin Joseph Deutsch. Algebraist 15:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

But Asimov was a good guess: Asimov was a friend of Deutsch's and encouraged him to have the story published. That's why it was set in Boston, where they lived. The movie version was set in Buenos Aires, because that's where the filmmakers lived. --Anonymous, 05:22 UTC, November 21, 2007.

That's the one -- I'm pretty certain that it was (re?)published in an anthology edited by Asimov; I still haven't had a chance to dig my low-tech paper copy. (on edit) Ahh, I see that it was also published in Fantasia Mathematica so perhaps I have two paper copies of it!

Atlant (talk) 16:51, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort, but I'm only interested in real-world examples. Completely fictional accounts really don't help me.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 16:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

(I moved WF's response to avoid confusion, which would not have arisen if not for Atlant's unusual habit of signing on a separate line. —Tamfang (talk) 23:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC))

In Back to the Future 3 they had a train they use to go back to the future that to those who remained will have looked like it disappeared, though I guess that's not going to count...ny156uk (talk) 17:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually the train doesn't go forward in time, just the DeLorean which is pushed by the train. The train ended up at the bottom of Eastwood Gulch. Donald Hosek (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No - Ny156uk is thinking of the time-travelling locomotive at the very end of the movie when they are all back in the present-day. SteveBaker (talk) 17:49, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's an unrealistic request - I mean, ships can be wildly off-course and sink without trace and planes too can crash in the ocean or in places so remote and far from their flight path that they are never found again. But a train can only be on the tracks or somewhere very close by - how could it possibly vanish? A 'ghost' train travelling on with nobody on board is also unlikely because all modern trains have elaborate systems to ensure that they stop if the engineer isn't right there at the controls (See dead man's handle). SteveBaker (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

As SteveBaker says, trains usually leave evidence when they "disappear" from the network.

Train wreck at Gare Montparnasse, Paris, France, 1895

Atlant (talk) 16:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I am doing a report on vehicular disappearances. I found many stories (sourced and unsourced) on disappearing cars, ships, planes, mobile homes, motorcycles, hell even bikes. But I haven't been able to find any on trains; maybe its because of the reason you list above, but I feel there must something out there regarding trains. And it doesn't necessarily have to be modern.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 18:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like trains (and buses) are pretty safe then. But seriously I have never heard of such a thing. Googling "train that disappeared" throws up some interesting references, mostly fictional of course, but there is the classic case of that train full of Nazi gold....--Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it is possible that all the people on a train or even a train it’s self could disappear without a trace if “foul play” (what a ridicules euphemism) was involved. It must have happened somewhere. --S.dedalus (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not true that it must have happened somewhere. I would go so far as to say that it's absurd to think it could have. --Anonymous, 05:26 UTC, November 21, 2007.

Really? According to Many-worlds interpretation this event must have taken place a nearly infinite number of times. :) More in our plane of existence, it seems likely that the fog of war and its accompanying confusion would have resulted in the disappearance of a train or two. Perhaps a military historian could help. --S.dedalus (talk) 07:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems a train disappeared briefly in 1903. [5] --S.dedalus (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh come on! The train was a few hours late - you can't count that as 'disappeared'! SteveBaker (talk) 14:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Of course, the Mary Celese didn't disappear, the people on board did, but I get your general drift. I know of a case where an armoured personnel carrier disappeared. A friend of mine was in the Australian Army Reserve some years ago, and he told me that while out on a training exercise one weekend, they managed to lose an entire tank. The fun part was reporting it to their senior officer; they decided to just add it to a long list of minor items scheduled to be written off - like boxes of paper clips, etc. They did this, the officer never noticed the new entry, he approved the whole list for write-off, and nothing more was ever said about it. I never got an explanation that washed, but my friend has always swore this was the literal truth. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

A Google Books search for full text books with occurrences of the words "train" and "disappear" shows many instances of trains disappearing: around the bend, around the curve, up the glen, or simply in the distance. In [6] a train disappeared beneath the water when a storm blew down the bridge.. Presumably it vanished from sight without a trace in each instance. In [7] a train disappeared for three weeks: then it was found on a siding. Then there was Byron [8]: "'Let the chamber be clear'd.'- The train disappear'd." For a mystery story dealing with a train's physical disappearance, see "Snowball in July [“The Phantom Train”; Ellery Queen], (ss) This Week Aug 31 1952 ,Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine, Jul 1956, mentioned at [9]. Edison (talk) 17:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Except for the Byron quote, which obviously is using a different meaning of "train", I can't view the pages cited. The first passage is presumably referring to the Tay Bridge disaster, where although the train was out of sight, there was no question as to where it was (and indeed the locomotive was later retrieved and repaired). Ellery Queen is fiction. That leaves the second passage cited, which I don't know enough about to comment on. --Anon, 23:45 UTC, November 21.

An/arctic satalite pics

I was trying to find satalite pics of north or south pole stations, particularly south pole, on google maps, I was hoping for satalite shots, just curious. can some one pls give me a link. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 14:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You could try some of the external links at Arctic#External_links and Antarctic#External_links as a starting point. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I should point out that most of the photos on Google maps are not from satellites but from aircraft. The best resolution from commercially available satellite photography is several meters per pixel - but some of the Google stuff is down at 10cm per pixel which means it's gotta be from aerial photography. This probably explains the lack of decent data for the poles. SteveBaker (talk) 18:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, the high-resolution photos that they provide for big cities and other areas of great interest are indeed clearly from aircraft. For other areas the resolution seems to be within the satellite range. I have no idea how many photos of one type they serve vs. how many of the other. --Anon, 05:30 UTC, Nov. 21.

In the case of the Antarctic, it's hard to imagine an aircraft flying up and down a continent twice the size of Australia taking detailed photographs - especially given the rigorous conditions there and the unlikelyhood that anyone is going to use Google Maps for navigating there! In the case of the Arctic, nothing stays still for very long (there is no land there - you'd just be looking at floating sea-ice) - so whatever photos there are will not represent how it looks now. Hence, I doubt anyone would take the time and effort to photograph it closely. So it's down to satellite photography then - but the resolution will be poor - NASA's Landsat-7 was in a polar orbit - and took photos at 15 meter per pixel resolution. You can probably see the polar data with the NASA World Wind system - which you can download for free (links are in the article). The QuickBird commercial system is also in a polar orbit and produces monochrome images down to about two thirds of a meter and colour down to 2.5 meters - which is probably good enough for your needs. But still, the quality won't be anything like as good as you are used to finding with Google Maps for most urban areas. SteveBaker (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

In any case Google Maps does not cover the poles; all coverage ends at latitude 85 north or south. --Anon, 00:00, November 22, 2007.

Google Earth shows the South pole - but it's algorithms seem to break down and the resolution jumps up and down randomly. The North pole is just blue - which is probably going to be right in a few decades. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 06:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Another song finding question.

Does anyone know what song is playing in the background of the new scion comercial, it flashes between cars driving at night and some light effects, sometimes slowing down or speeding up randomly or nonrandomly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.102.55 (talk) 18:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

No idea but their site (http://www.scion.com ) has lots of music in its media-player, I would be amazed if one of them on that list didn't feature in the advert. ny156uk (talk) 22:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Foreign Policy in the United States

Why is Foreign policy important to the united states government? I have an essay over why the united states political system is great i have everything but foreign policy, it confuses me i cant find what exactly is foreign policy. HELP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.66.147.1 (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Try: Foreign policy and Foreign relations of the United States. And, I suppose, Hegemony. I have an essay over why the united states political system is great. Oh good. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:32, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Just remember that greatness and goodness are not the same thing! —Tamfang (talk) 00:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Also remember that there are those who believe, and for good reason, with impeccable sources that (a) the United States has no coherent foreign policy, and hence your problem and (b) that the United States' political system is not great (or good). Not that we want to confuse you, or anything ... Bielle (talk) 02:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Game Maker.

In the Game Maker (lite), from YoYo games, I'm working on a game, but theres thinks that, if i knew, I could use to make the game better, but know matter have much I reread everything, review the samples, and experiement, i can't find out how to make the stuff happen, please tell me how to do this stuff...

1- Make the main character shoot something, like a gun, or an arrow, anything, (example- click Space to fire gun...)

2- make another character do something when he/she sees your character, (example- you enter an alley, someones in there, because he seen you, or you entered the alley, he fired his guns...)(Example- You enter a sertant square, and another character will automaticcly do something...)

3- place up the points and want/where their at, (Example- if you look to the right of the screen, your see a box, in side the box is your lives and score...)

4- Instead of the screen being one HUGE map, and the bigger the map, the smaller everything in the map is, the screen is normal size, and when you which the side of the map, it starts scrolling over to reveal/show more land, (Example- You reach the end of the map, and it scrolls over...)

5- This might answer #4, so i'll ask it, When something happens that causes the level to change, how do you skip levels, or choose which level you go to? (Example- [level 9] You fall into the hole, it that's you back down to level 8, but the hole next to it is much farther down, and will take you to level 3...)

Please answer it in a way that it's useful, Thnak you... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.222.150 (talk) 21:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• I haven't the foggiest idea, but my guess is that since you have fairly specific questions about a fairly specific piece of software, you might get better results at their dedicated community support forums: http://gmc.yoyogames.com/. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Without seeing your game and being a deep guru in the yoyogames system, it's very hard (well, impossible really) to answer your questions. However, I'll say this much - those automated 'game maker' systems (and there have been a lot of them over the years) that claim to allow you to write a game without doing any programming are all horribly limiting. If you really want to make a game by yourself that follows your vision of how you want it to look and play, you are going to NEED to learn to program. Even with the massively sophisticated Unreal engine we use here at work (I'm a professional games programmer), we still need a dozen full time C++ programmers working on the game along with all of the artists, game designers and audio guys. SteveBaker (talk) 14:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It's true that they are limiting but that's no reason to discourage people playing with them. The entire point is that they are limiting—they narrow the parameters so you don't need to do everything from scratch or require a whole team of workers. Nobody is claiming that they're going to write the next big hit with such software, but it's a great way to learn programming concepts and encourage a hobby. I disagree with your assessment about what people need to learn in order to make a game that they want; I've been using Adventure Game Studio for awhile and am coming up with a great version of exactly what I want, which happens to be a retro, Sierra-style adventure game that requires—wait for it—a text parser!! This is the sort of thing that no commercial studio would give five minutes of time today, and it isn't something that's going to make any money at all, and I'm doing it for myself and for people like me. It's fun, it's entertaining, and I bet you the final result will be more interesting to a lot of people than a lot of commercial products.

Don't let your professional expectations/norms lead you to crap on people's hobbies and amateur visions; it's silly and unnecessary. I don't think anyone is confusing these programming kits (which just abstract some of the coding for you and simplify the programming) with writing Half-Life. Some of the amateur-made games that have come out of these things have been much better than a number of professional games that have come out; focusing on character development and storytelling becomes a lot easier when you aren't trying to make everything look new and high tech and accommodate an economic demographic that favors senseless violence and button mashing. I got more enjoyment out of the Chzo Mythos than I have out of games for a long time. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

No - please don't get me wrong - these things have a place - and I have HUGE respect for amateur games writers because I was one myself until I decided to take it up as a career (Lemur of Lima, TuxKart, Botzilla and Tux the Penguin - A Quest for Herring to name just a few). If what you have is a toolkit for generating Monkey Island-style games - and what you want to make is a monkey island-style game - then absolutely, go for it! The problem is that people see "Game Maker" and immediately assume they'll have Quake III up and running in a couple of days. If the vision you have happens to line up with what the tool provides, then fair enough. But if you have a personal vision for what you want that differs even slightly from what the tool does (which sounds like the problem our OP is dealing with) - then sadly, you're stuck with it. If you learn to program then given time, you can write anything that the hardware is capable of. I used to have fun with a gadget called 'Shoot em up construction kit' that made games like space invaders, galaxians and such - it was a blast to mess with - although all the games came out looking more or less like galaxians or space invaders! I just hate it when people have huge expectations for these limited systems. SteveBaker (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't sound to me like the OP's idea is beyond the capabilities of the system; usually these systems can be pretty flexible within a few major parameters, it's just a matter of knowing how to do it. Anyway learning the limitations is a task in and of itself—I've always said that most programming is not knowing the language itself (languages can be looked up; once you know one you can usually figure out most others that are similar to it) but just learning how to go about problems and even the difference between a big problem and a small one. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me like making amateur games is more for the entertainment of the programmer than of the player though.. I have as much respect for amateur game designers as I do for anyone who enjoys programming, but I don't find amateur games that good. I do recognize the obvious exception though- Counter-Strike. I find the original amateur-written mod completely unplayable because I'm so used to Source, but I've played upwards of 1000 hours of Counter-Strike: Source in the last 3 years and I attribute the greatness of the game to the original amateur deigners Gooseman and Cliffe. But except for Counter-Strike, gaming is suspiciously devoid of really fun amateur games. --ffroth 07:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Obviously it's a subjective judgment. If you think Counter-Strike is a great game then you're probably in the "find stuff shoot stuff" demographic that I mentioned earlier, and that's the sort of thing that favors people who can develop in 3D and for multi-player action, none of which is very easy to do with game-making kits and there is already a well-saturated market out there. If you, for example, were more a fan of adventure games, you'd find the current market almost totally bare and the amateur offerings pretty good—graphics in such things are much simpler, focusing more on story and puzzles. There is also a fine line between amateur and independent—Introversion Software does some really amazing stuff though it's only a couple guys working on it. Amateur gaming isn't supposed to try and compete with the major market stuff so much as supplement it, at best. The kind of games I like just aren't made by companies anymore—they aren't profitable—and so amateur gaming can pick up some of that slack. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 04:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Also note that there is a world of gradiation between "automated" game maker programs and the sort of hard-core, bare-metal C++ programming that gives you the Half-Life engine. There are a number of "easier" (arguably), full-featured programing languages, many of which come with toolkits (programming libraries) designed specifically for building games. I don't have much (read: "any") experience, but I'd point you to something like Adobe Flash or to Python with PyGame (or Ruby or Lua or Smalltalk, etc.), if you're interested. -- 20:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.104.112.120 (talk)

All of those sorts of things are still going to be world's harder than the pre-fab makers (which are not usually "automated" in any strict sense; they only simplify). I can program Flash Actionscript better than the average bear but I wouldn't dare try to make a game of any complexity in it; even with the basic graphical apparatus simplified (which is what Flash does best) you'd have to build the rest of the game framework up from scratch, and that's what these "game makers" do for you. Even handling things like simple keyboard controls is a lot easier if the work is abstracted for you. It puts limitations on what you can do, obviously, but for people starting out or people who want to see fast results from their work I recommend the "game makers". You can spend a month trying to learn Flash from scratch and come up with not a whole lot more than variations on Hello world, whereas with a "game maker" like AGS you could have a functional demo in that time. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I've been playing with RPG Maker XP lately- it's really amazing how powerful it is. Of course, you can only make RPGs but if you're making a classic-style 2D RPG, pretty much anything you can imagine can be accomplished with it. 2 hours produced a little 15-minute game for me and my friend, and if I ever took the time to properly learn Ruby (and the rpg maker API which doubtlessly consists of hundreds of properties and methods for manipulating various parts of the engine) it could turn into a real game --ffroth 06:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I have used Game Maker a lot, it's pretty easy to get to grips with and the learniong curve is not too steep. I would also say it's not particularly limiting, 2D RPGs and platformers are easy to create and '3D' isometric games can be created too. If you want to create anything truly 3D it's not so good but that's not what it's designed for. You could easily create something alone the lines of the 16 bit console games using Game Maker. As for your specific questions, you need to create objects and then create events with actions assigned to them but I would suggest you go through the tutorials first azs they will teach you what you are asking. GaryReggae (talk) 12:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold Placer

What is placer gold and how does it differ from gold nuggets and regular gold? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.142.66 (talk) 23:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

We have an article on that (of course!) Placer mining. SteveBaker (talk) 23:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

November 21

I want to open a beer in a really alpha masculine way

How can I open bottles with my knuckle? lots of issues | leave me a message 04:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Knucle? thats wimpy. The real alpha masculin way is to quickly pull out a knife, stab the top then down the beer. Thats ALPHA masculine. Knucle is like more Alpha middle school drinker masculine. Esskater11 04:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Even more alpha masculine would be to break off or smash the neck of the bottle, then down the beer. Clearly being too alpha masculine can cause injury. As to how to remove a bottle cap with a knuckle, I’m afraid someone else will have to help you, as I’m not of the legal age to imbibe alcohol in the US. --S.dedalus (talk) 05:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to crush the bottle against your forehead when you are finished. (Does not constitute real advice). Lanfear's Bane | t 11:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I once saw a guy at a train station wack the top of a wine bottle and the cap just popped off. Guess he'd had a lot of practice. Think outside the box 11:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Something along the lines of sabrage perhaps. Lanfear's Bane | t 13:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The cap? Pah! I'd be impressed if he just smashed the whole neck of the bottle off, spilling it all over the place and bloodying his hand from the broken glass, then tilted his head back and drank all the rest of it at once. --ffroth —Preceding comment was added at 06:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I can do the whacking it onto the edge of something hard thing - it's not that different from sabrage. Find something with a nice, hard (preferably metal) edge - (The top of my refrigerator works pretty well) lay the side of the bottle against the edge and either jerk it downwards really hard (or less impressively, whack it on top with the palm of your hand) so that the edge of the crown cap hits the edge of the surface (the top of my fridge in this case). If you do it right, the top will pop right off. However, it's not particularly masculine - an ex-girlfriend showed me how to do it - so it's a positively girly way to open a bottle. I agree that stabbing through the cap with a knife and twisting it to make a triangular hole is the only completely macho way. And we aren't talking about your wussy boy-scout knife here - we're talking 8" blade, serrated back edge with blood grooves. Ask yourself honestly: WWCND? (Oh - sorry - that's "What Would Chuck Norris Do?" for the less masculine amongst us). SteveBaker (talk) 14:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, how very tough you lads are. This is almost an alpha male convention. Excuse me while I put up some trees for you to pi** on.

Dude I went to high school with used to open beer bottles with his teeth. Think he wedged the cap against a back molar and just popped it off. We thought it was cool... Probably absolutely terrible for his teeth though, so, not advice, do not attempt, consult a dentist or whatever. Azi Like a Fox (talk) 16:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

My sister used to do that (thus rendering the 'alpha male' thing questionable...) until she chipped a tooth. Painful. I advise against it. Skittle (talk) 17:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep - there you go. Biting it off - also officially girly, sorry OP - you're going to have to order that Bowie Knife and just stab away at those bottles (although...a North Korean bayonet circa 1938 would be MUCH more macho...you know...just sayin...not that there's anything too effeminate about a Bowie knife). SteveBaker (talk) 20:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yea its either a Bowie knife, or you could do the next best thing though you would get arrested. You could take the bottom find the closest guy and break the top of his head Esskater11 20:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Lay a bottle down on a hay bale with a bottle opener wedged in the cap, put a glass under the bottle. Go back 50 yards and shoot the bottle opener with a arrow. The cap will pop off and the beer will fill the glass. I saw a guy do it on TV once.--ChesterMarcol (talk) 20:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Bow and arrow? No, no, no - that won't do at all. A crossbow maybe? A .44 Magnum would be playing more on the safe side. "Did I shoot the caps off the entire six pack or only five? Do you feel lucky punk?" SteveBaker (talk) 05:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You're all missing the point. A true alpha male wouldn't have to open their own beer. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much. On a slightly different note, there was a woman on TV who had enormous breasts with which she could crush empty beer cans. Not in between, but via gravity. It was pretty amazing. --Masamage ♫ 04:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Basketball

Please explain what "high-low game" and "low-high game" are. 81.89.88.106 (talk) 07:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet "high-low game" means the offense runs through the bigger players (so the Power Forward and/or the Center), whereas "low-high game" means the offense runs through the smaller players (the point guard and shooting guard, and maybe the small forward).

Teams with dominant big men who have good hands would run a high-low game, where when offense gets set they pass the ball to the big man who tries to get position on his defender. Since he is so good there would be defensive help from another defender which would leave another person open, or at least partially open. The offense runs through him since he can either score directly or move the ball around to an open player who would score.

Teams with good guard play would run a low-high game. So when the offense gets set the small guys would use their quickness to beat their defender which would require another defensive player come help out. Then there is an open or partially open player that the small guy can pass to. This sort of play would use a quick guard or small forward. The offense would run through them since they could take the ball to the basket, pull up and take a shot over an off-balance defender, or pass the ball off to the player left open by the help defense.--droptone (talk) 13:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

VHS vs Betacam

I'm thinking of ordering some archival footage for my own use (potentially to digitize and use in my own film editing). On VHS it is only $10 a film, while on Betacam it is $100. Is the quality of the Betacam going to be superior enough to justify the extra expense? (Note that I am not asking why the expense should be 10X more; archives have ridiculous policies relating to price that usually have no correlation with work performed; at some they charge you much more to scan something at 600 DPI than they do at 300 DPI even though its exactly the same amount of work!!) --24.147.86.187 (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - Betacam is much better quality than VHS, it's THE standard professional format used throughout the TV industry before digital TV hit the world. Are you sure this is a version of BetaCam you can read? There are many different flavors of BetaCam - some of the most recent ones are digital - the older ones analog. VHS is 330x250, BetaCam is 400x300 - but that doesn't really express the difference properly. The colour quality of BetaCam is vastly better. Some of that $90 difference in price is just the cost of the tape - the rest reflects the cost of the hardware to record it. Whether you NEED that extra quality given the price difference is something only you can answer. But I'm a little puzzled...if you have the ability to play BetaCam tapes, surely you're a video professional and are therefore already aware of the difference in quality. Those machines are hideously expensive compared to VHS machines. SteveBaker (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a professional at all in video editing (this would be for my own practice/fun), but I have access to the vast technological resources of a well-endowed university and so reading and converting between different formats is a snap (they have a number of centralized tech facilities with machines set up for this sort of thing). Thanks for the reply—I think in this case the color will be quite important, given that these are really old archival tapes and the color is already going to be somewhat dodgy; I can take whatever I can get. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The other thing to consider isn't so much VHS vs BetaCam, but analogue vs digital regardless of the format used. If you go the analogue VHS route then any subsequent dubs will deteriorate in quality. Personally I'd see if you could use some of that uni gear to do your own conversion direct to computer using a minimally compressed digital format such as DV-AVI. Once you have it in that digital form you can do what you like with it. You didn't mention what format the original footage is in so it's hard to give advice on the actual conversion. --WebHamster 12:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Right, well that's what I'd be doing after I received the BetaCam or VHS. I don't have any choice in the original format other than those two (both of which are recorded from some sort of old movie reels), but I would be converting it to digital ASAP. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

In that case the BetaCam (especially DigiBeta if possible) is the way to go is quality is on your priority list. It does seem to be a strangely limited option. Any decent conversion house will give you a much wider range of options. The last time it was done for me I had the option of VHS, S-VHS, Video8, Hi8, Digital8 (the one I chose as I use that format) and DigiBeta. To be honest I wouldn't trust a place that can only offer two options, especially at such disparate prices. YMMV of course :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by WebHamster (talk • contribs) 01:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

USA Picture Postcards

I am British and consider myself lucky to have travelled fairly widely around Europe and the USA and I take it kindly that quite a few of the people we have met over the years have visited us in our Scottish home, and I include those from France, Germany, Spain, England, Wales, New England USA, California USA and Hawaii USA. Over the years we have also collected picture postcards from all those places and have kept those sent to us from them too. But as much as we love America and like visiting there, I just have to say the quality and photographic standards of the USA postcards compare extremely poorly with those from Europe. Today for instance, we got 3 cards from Hawaii, and the colour quality, the views selected and the general forgettability factor were all dire, I mean really DIRE. But the people who sent them are people who I consider to have otherwise good taste so I can only imagine they are choosing from a very poor range to start with. So, if anyone here can explain why that might be, I would love to know why that is. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.21 (talk) 20:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a fluke. There are postcards to be had here of as fine a quality as one could hope for. But I think that we generally see the postcard more as kitsch than as high art. --Milkbreath (talk) 21:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

American postcards are pretty poor today; very little money or thought seems to go into them, most of them have horrible designs, atrocious pictures, and gaudy text all over them. I don't know what the rest of the world is doing with their postcards, but US ones are nothing to write home about (ironically, no?). They have historically been this way—there is a book under the title of Boring Postcards USA for sale if you are interested—though I tend to find the postcards of the last decade or two phenomenally bad. If you browse through postcard holdings in antique shops you'll often find far more interesting ones, with better subjects, better photography, etc., in my opinion. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold Nuggets Worth

On average how much are gold nuggets worth today or in today's market? Haven't they hit a high price for this year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.127.98.85 (talk) 23:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold is sold by the ounce. The weight of a nugget and its percentage of gold would determine how much it is worth. Corvus cornix_talk 23:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Gold hit $800 an ounce briefly today - that's some kind of a record I believe. However, it's more to do with the US dollar being weak than gold being suddenly worth a lot more. The 'normal' price over the past few years has been in the $600 range - but the dollar has fallen about as fast as gold has risen. I bet the Euro price for gold has hardly budged at all. Today's AP press release said: "The dollar slid to its lowest point against the euro, which fetched a peak $1.4855. A barrel of oil hit a record $99.29 in electronic trading overnight, while heating oil peaked at $2.7154 a gallon. Those moves helped hoist gold prices temporarily over $800 an ounce, as investors shifted assets to the traditional safe-haven metal." - remember that the Euro was equal to the Dollar just a couple of years ago. SteveBaker (talk) 05:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, particularly large or unusual nuggets will sell at a much far higher value than their mass would suggest. 130.88.79.77 (talk) 12:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Contemporary Literary Criticism Volume 21 editor

Help! I forgot to write down the editor for Contemporary Literary Criticism Volume 201; I need the editor for my essay! Anyone know who it is?--24.109.218.172 (talk) 23:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Jeffrey W. Hunter. Xn4 00:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.109.218.172 (talk) 01:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

November 22

Slapbands

I can to your site on how to find info on a certain 80's trend that was called a "slapband" (one of those bands that is "U" shaped straight but you can smack it and it will form a circle then unravel it and make it straight again) there seems that there was some sort of contriversy with it in the 80's that it was banned from schools. I searched all over the internet for other names to this "fashion statement" with no luck so I turned to you, but seems that there is no info.

But I certainly thank you for all the awesome info you guys do have and your doing a great job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.133.34.201 (talk) 01:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I remember them. When we had them in the late 80s they were banned in our school due to a rumour (confirmation?) that the sliver of metal could slide out of the synthetic material outside and slit the wrists of the wearer. That having been said, I still had mine up until a year or two ago. I don't know what happened to it. I'll have to search... Steewi (talk) 01:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

See Slap bracelet. These are still made all over the world (google) and were originally trademarked under the name 'Slap Wrap'. The technique has been expanded to also include 'Slap on watches' and other items. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 01:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Always amazed at the plethera of knowledge to be had.

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.133.34.201 (talk) 13:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Modern filmaking

Do modern large Hollywood studios such as Universal and DreamWorks use digital film-capturing devices? Or are they still using the traditional film? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

They use both, but what is becoming increasingly popular is the use of a digital internegative for use in editing, digital colour timing and effects etc, so yes, these days most film is digitally scanned at some point even if the end product is based on traditional film stock. --WebHamster 12:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

writing

hello, im a writerbut im on writers block is there any websites that give you plots but i can create my characters and setting? thanxs

If you find one, come back and tell us. I'd love to know about it. Bielle (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested to read The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations. At the bottom of the article are links to other plot lists.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

need help please

I know you dont help on homework but i am helping my younger sister on a project and i have looked every where from the regular dictionary to every site online and i can not seem to find what we need. she has been given four symptoms, mouth and gum soreness, wounds and cuts will not heal, loss of appetite, and sore joints. i have looked at all the diseases she was given and none of them seem to fit all the way.the diseases are...cholera, dihtheria, leprosy, dengue fever, scurvy, malaria, and yellow fever. They all seem to have one or two of the symptoms. can you help or at least point me in the right direction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.20.156 (talk) 02:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like scurvy.

Well, I don't know. There is no indication of joint pain or loss of appetite in our article on scurvy. It says that there is an inability to make new collagen - and I could imagine that causing joint problems - but it's not listed in the symptoms. But I agree that none of the other diseases cover the whole set of symptoms either. Could this be one of those things where the patient has two diseases and you have to find the two that cover all of the symptoms without predicting symptoms that the patient doesn't have? SteveBaker (talk) 05:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The British Medical Association "Complete Family Health Encyclopedia" says that scurvy causes bleeding into muscles and joints thus causing pain. DuncanHill (talk) 05:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

And in the same vein (ouch, unintended, but I will leave it), mouth and gum soreness (along with the joint pain) could well result in a loss of appetite. A toothache alone will do that for me. Bielle (talk) 05:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It does appear to be scurvy. The giveaways are the lack of healing and the tooth and gum soreness. The lack of vitamin C causes loose teeth and gum decay, also giving extremely foul breath. You also get lethargy, and your body doesn't have the strength and resources to heal sores easily, so they linger. Leprosy's giveaway would be numbness and blackened extremeties, malaria's and dengue fever's are fever and delirium (recurring). Cholera causes sores to appear (among other things) and I don't know much about yellow fever. I'm off to read the article. Steewi (talk) 00:45, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not in our article about yellow fever, nor in our article about coffee ground vomiting, but one of the diagnostic symptoms of late stage yellow fever is the vomiting up of dried up blood (which looks like coffee grounds). See here. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's probably pretty unpleasant. Matt Deres (talk) 02:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

spelling help

When you say a person is full of knowledge, you can say "he is a "plefferer of knowledge". How do you spell that? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.82.135 (talk)

plethora ? Hmm, bad redirect! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.162.232 (talk)

See plethora on wiktionary. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 02:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd say "He has a plethora of knowledge" rather than "he is a plethora of knowledge".hotclaws 04:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You could also say "He is the fount of all knowledge" - but I'm sure the OP wanted 'plethora'. SteveBaker (talk) 05:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Is pleffering legal in your state? —Tamfang (talk) 20:07, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I've always understood the pronunciation to be PLE-thɘra, not plɘ-THAW-ra, but I hear people using the latter from time to time. Which is correct? -- JackofOz (talk) 20:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Emphasis is on the first syllable --WebHamster 01:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Salvia divinorum and the law

Hi, I live in Illinois where salvia divinorum, a hallucinogenic/dissociative drug, is becoming illegal on January 1st, 2008. I understand that Wikipedia does not offer legal advice and does not take the place of a lawyer, but I thought I'd ask a question. Once salvia becomes illegal, does a bong with salvia residue become illegal as well? As some of you might know, it's incredibly hard to clean something like a bong enough to get rid of any leftover smells from smoking something like salvia. I ask this because the act of smoking took place while the substance was legal (though I can see this being called into question as there is no proof), it is present in essentially near-trace amounts (as in, it would be impossible to get high from what's left over in the bong), and there are legitimate uses for bongs (such as hookah). Thanks for the help, guys! --pie4all88 (talk) 07:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Would it not be possible to contact your local police force for advice? I am sure plenty of other people must have been in similar situations in the past, so they must have some kind of policy on this. 130.88.79.77 (talk) 12:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol, I am sure you noticed this, but in Salvia divinorum it says people have suggested that the wording of the law banning the drug in Illinois will make possession of water extracted from the plant illegal. However, if you could extract the active ingredient from a different plant, or synthesise it, this would be perfectly legal! 130.88.79.77 (talk) 12:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I may end up contacting the police with the question. Just thought I'd ask here since it's more convenient. And as for the wording on the bill, I'm pretty sure there aren't any other plants that make Salvinorin A, but it definitely is possible to synthesize it. Honestly, I'm not surprised in the least that the law is badly written. I can hardly make it through the "Controversy" section on the Salvia divinorum page what with all the biased, misinformed senators and sensationalist media coverage. Anyways, thanks for the help with the question, man. :) --pie4all88 (talk) 13:15, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

]p[-

220.233.83.26 (talk) 08:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. FiggyBee (talk) 08:26, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

He will be back, just gone for a pee perhaps.--88.110.17.80 (talk) 08:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I say the answer he's after is ;P Steewi (talk) 00:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

something to do with trr?[10]Cryo921 (talk) 01:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

intel

Whenever an advert about a computer with an intel pentium 4 processor inside it or whatever, why do they always have to have the little intel tune? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.215.64 (talk) 14:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Possibly thanks to some deal between the seller and Intel, designed to make the customers think there's something remarkable about Intel processors. If so, the aural equivalent of the rather ridiculous "Intel Inside" visual thing. -- Hoary (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

They don't have to, but if they do put the Intel Inside thing in their adverts, Intel will pay for half the cost of the advert (as a result, Intel gets extra advertising and the computer company gets a cheaper advertising campaign - everybody wins). See Intel Corporation#Advertising and brand management. In case you're interested, the exact tune goes "D♭ D♭ G♭ D♭ A♭". Laïka 14:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

They have the "little tune" because the more senses one can engage, the more likely it is that the message will be noticed. Also, at any later time the hearing of the tune (or just a snatch) will tend to recall the ad, and therefore the product. Basic promotional technique.86.197.150.176 (talk) 15:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

It's like a jingle. --antilived^{T | C | G} 21:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a source for this but I've heard that Intel will pay the seller something like 70% of the cost of the Ad if they include the jingle. And of course at that price, they all accept Doh! Didn't read Smurrayinchester's coment above. -- DatRoot 01:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I also understand that they pay computer manufacturers if they put that 'intel inside' sticker on the computer/laptop. I heard that Apple refused because they think they would spoil the computer's design. Here's an article on it (http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/58900.html) ny156uk (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Very interesting. I've been wondering on and off how come Apple had avoided the sticker - I had assumed that it was compulsory. The financial explanation makes much more sense.

Incidentally, I also think that IBM may be missing a trick by not doing something similar (though hopefully more tasteful). How many people realise that the chips in every current games console are made by IBM? 81.187.153.189 (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The Wii has a little ATI logo frosted on the upper-left corner of the side panel due to the ATI Hollywood graphics chip inside (you can see it in this image). I can only imagine that IBM decided that it wouldn't generate enough extra trade. Laïka 12:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Effects of lethal radiation

Suppose if a human was blasted by an intense amount of gamma radiation, equivalent to power of those from a thermonuclear weapon, how would the body physical look as it dies? Would the person just drop dead or would a more dramatic death ensue, ie. body melts, bubbles, etc...? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 16:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You could have a look at radiation poisoning. Gamma burns from highly penetrating radiation. This would likely cause deep gamma penetration within the body, which would result in uniform whole body irradiation rather than only a surface burn. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The same article in the dosage section Radiation poisoning#10–50 Sv (1,000–5,000 REM) may also be useful. I would hazard a guess that as the particular type of event in the question has never been reported, that we just don't know what the effects would be (I doubt they'd be fun to experience tho). 86.21.74.40 (talk) 16:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh and also, see Gamma radiation#Health effect. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 16:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I understand that exposure to gamma radiation causes the body to swell up, turn green, and become incredibly strong. 64.236.80.62 (talk) 12:00, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I would look at it as a kind of "sunburn turned up to 11". Sunburn is due to an overdose of electromagnetic radiation just as irradiation with gamma would be (though admittedly the UV in sunlight isn't normally described as "ionising radiation"). Really serious sunburn, blistering, etc. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 19:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

You might want to look for a copy of Eric Hall's Radiobiology for the Radiologist or a similar work in your local university or teaching hospital's library. There are only a handful of cases of human exposures to high doses of ionizing radiation that weren't accompanied by other insults. (People at Hiroshima and Nagasaki who received large doses of gamma radiation, for instance, suffered serious injuries due to heat and blast as well—there was also little controlled clinical monitoring of their early symptoms.) The few cases that are available are generally isolated military and industrial accident cases where doses are estimated after the fact.

Very high doses of ionizing radiation (roughly 5000 rad/50 Gy and up) delivered to the whole body are characterized by rapid nervous system and cardiovascular effects: the so-called central nervous system syndrome. Animal experiments have found that death occurs in hours (or less, with higher doses). There is a rapid onset (within minutes) of nausea and vomiting, followed by disorientation, loss of coordination, seizures, coma, and death. While you might see some skin reddening or blistering (if the patient lived long enough), you're not going to see charring or bubbling. Even extremely high doses of gamma irradiation will deposit very little heat into the body. (100 rad/1 Gy of absorbed dose is 1 joule of energy per kilogram of body weight; raising a person's temperature by 1 degree Celsius would take an absurdly high dose of about 4000 Gy. For comparison, a 10 Gy whole-body dose is almost uniformly fatal, even with aggressive medical intervention.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

How much radiation would exist at ground-zero of a modern thermonuclear warhead? Acceptable (talk) 23:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

When? Immediately? Two hours later? etc. Time matters a lot in this because the highly radioactive bits are also the ones that die out quickly; the amount of radiation decreases greatly within the first few hours. It's also the difference between prompt radiation (caused by reactions in the bomb) and delayed radiation (caused by the remains of the bomb and its effect on the landscape) See 5.2.1 Radioactive Contamination and 5.3.2.1 Sources of Radiation here for a great overview. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 08:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

mba

what are your career goals?why do you want to do an mba?221.134.49.128 (talk) 16:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)akanksha

That's not an appropriate question for this desk; each of us would have a different opinion. sorry. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Clearly it's a question asked by an educational institution to a person applying to do an MBA there. If the best he/she can do is parrot the question word for word in a place like the ref desk, I don't see them having much of a chance of getting their MBA should they be accepted. I hope that doesn't seem uncharitable, just realistic. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe I am qualified to be the MBA because... well.. actually, I'm not. However I'd take that over being in the MBA any day. In short, I'd like to be the MBA because I don't want to be in the MBA. Thank you. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 08:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Google home page banner - incorporated event image

What do you call the incorporation of an event overlay or modification image which utilizes aspects or parts of a base image, in this case the two "o"s in the word "Google" displayed on the Google home page? (For today's event of Thanksgiving the tail feathers of two turkeys sitting at a dinner table are fanned out in the shape of the two "o"s.)

Also do the images of the turkeys at the table suggest it is okay for turkeys to practice cannibalism or in a reverse twist, okay to eat human? 71.100.8.2 (talk) 19:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, the turkeys seem to be eating a vegetarian diet, so I'm not sure it endorses either of those conclusions. As for the modification, I'm not sure it has—or needs—a specialized term. --140.247.11.24 (talk) 19:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Google calls them "Google Doodles". There's probably no official name, but depending on the context, it could be a mash up or image manipulation. Laïka 23:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Google just calls them holiday logos. The term Google Doodle refers to the special multi-day logos that tell a story. --Bavi H (talk) 02:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Adobe/Acrobat reader

Why is Acrobat reader free? Not complaining or anything, it just seems a bit of a silly descision--Phoenix-wiki ^{(talk · contribs)} 21:54, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Why should they charge for it? There are plenty of free PDF readers out here, and it will lose all of their market if the reader is free. They mainly make their revenue through the software that make PDF, Adobe Acrobat. --antilived^{T | C | G} 22:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The reader is free, but the creator is not. So it's partially because by creating a standard document format, then companies need to buy the program to make files into that format if they want to distribute in it. Then again, with programs like CuteFTP that will convert a Word document to PDF for free, that is a free alternative to Adobe's encoder. Guroadrunner (talk) 22:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It's programmatically much easier to write a PDF than it is to read it, oddly enough. There are really not that many PDF readers out there—most are based off of a single codebase (xpdf's)—because the format is damned tough and full of all sorts of exceptions and special cases. It's one of those formats that's simple to write to in a given way, but since there are so many different ways to write to it it makes it quite hard to read. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This is not so odd. Most file formats are much easier to write than to read. And not just file formats -- printing is much easier than OCR, and 3D rendering is much easier than computer vision. -- BenRG (talk) 13:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

~My question is: Why is that silly format so damn popular? Keria (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Because there's no agreed-upon standard for distributing documents that won't change the formatting on each computer, and it allows me to send you files that you can read/print without having the software I used to make it (e.g. I could send you a Word file even if you don't have Word; I could send you an InDesign file even if you don't know what InDesign is) or the fonts I used for it. A quick real-time example: I want to a make a DVD label that prints on a specific brand of DVD sticker stock. I make the label in the lousy software that comes with the labels, but I want to print it off of a computer that doesn't come with said lousy software. What do I do? The easiest option by far is to just print it off to a PDF and then print that from the other computer; it's near guaranteed to work and to look the same as it would if I used the specialized software, and it's totally portable.

(Document security, perhaps Adobe's most touted feature of the PDF, is notoriously poor—in almost all cases there is no encryption whatsoever, just a flag that the reader software either abides or doesn't. It usually takes me a whole 5 seconds to disable things like passwords and "no copying" restrictions. One of OS X's core distributed utilities—ColorSync Utility—does not (or at least doesn't in 10.4.10) respect the security flags at all, so you can open just about any PDF up with that and then save it again to strip the document of all security features. Frankly I don't like the idea of using DRM to restrict people from doing things like copying-and-pasting—it interferes with the work of scholars and the "fair use" rights of the user, for one thing, and doesn't do anything to prevent wholesale copying of the document itself.)

Is it the best of such formats? Not really, but its ubiquity and relative ease of use at this point makes it the obvious one to pick for daily work. It also handles lots of little things that other formats don't do well—like bundling fonts and keeping color encodings correct and keeping OCR information along with the images, etc. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a brilliant decision. Make the reader free. Make your format ubiquitous. Make it a standard. Then profit both off of the supplementary software and the name recognition. Charge for a reader and nobody will want to use your format—you'll lose the possibility of it becoming an industry standard and being widely accepted . -24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it brilliant (since it's pretty obvious) but it's certainly the most profitable model for a format like this. Lots of other companies do the same thing, like Macromedia and Real. The company that creates the format gets to be first to market with authoring software, which is a huge advantage even after competing products appear (which might not happen for years). If you have patent or trade secret protection on the format then you may even be able to prevent competitors from entering the market, which is even better for you (though not so great for your customers). -- BenRG (talk) 13:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I was only contrasting "brilliant" with "silly". --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

So how do they make so much money? One would only expect them to make modest profits this way--Phoenix-wiki ^{(talk · contribs)} 22:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know exactly, but Adobe has a lot of various programs and made its money 25 years ago with the PostScript stuff for early printers. Guroadrunner (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Practically every office that does any sort of e-business needs to have Adobe Acrobat installed on a good number of its computers, because PDF is one of the most standard formats on the internet these days and the ability to edit them or create complicated forms is pretty much restricted to Adobe's software. So they sell the software. It ain't cheap—the "standard" version costs $300, the "professional" costs $450. Obviously there are better deals one can get if you are buying a bunch, but the point is the editing software brings in a lot on its own. Factor into it the value of the brand name as the "industry standard" (Adobe is one of the best-known software brands out there, second maybe to Microsoft and Apple) and the fact that they sell a whole suite of expensive software (Photoshop: $640; Flash: $700; InDesign: $700; Illustrator: $600; DreamWeaver: $400) and it quickly becomes clear that they stand make quite a bit of money on software sales alone. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 08:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

What's this font?

Look at this image of the box for the video game Rock Band: http://www.engadget.com/photos/rock-band-crashes-at-our-pad/501769/. What is that awesome '80s font for the words "Start a band, rock the world" and the other font for the words underneath that, "Live Out Your Rock-and-Roll Fantasies (...)"

Let me know, I'm really interested because those fonts look classic, like I've seen them before. Guroadrunner (talk) 22:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It reminds me of 1980s advertisements in comic books. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 23:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It looks like ITC Avant Garde, with ITC Avant Garde Alternate for the slanted A and very tight kerning and tracking. Laïka 23:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That looks correct! I will see if I have the alternate on my computer, or if I can buy it cheap. Thank you. Guroadrunner (talk) 23:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

ITC Avant Garde is older than 1980, but (like Palatino) became more visible when it was included in the second LaserWriter. —Tamfang (talk) 20:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Try Identifont. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Or WhatTheFont; if that fails, WhatTheFont Forum is like a Ref Desk for fonts. —Tamfang (talk) 22:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

November 23

essay

question removed, we dont mark essays.

It would be appropriate to sign your removal. —Nricardo (talk) 16:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

And politer and more helpful by far to userfy the question than delete it. And as it happens the question got two answers, so it would appear we do mark essays. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Tiger Stadium Blue paint

What was the color of Blue the Tiger Stadium was painted in 1977? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spoon57 (talk • contribs) 02:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hypothetical -- Child Pornography on Wikipedia?

I have a hypothetical for everyone. Let's say that an adolescent boy or girl is browsing around the penis or vagina articles, and discovers to their dismay that there are no good pictures! Let's suppose that said (underage) teen decides to take a picture of their own genitals and upload it to the commons, so they can include it in the respective article. Would this be considered child pornography? What might be some potential consequences for Wikipedia, the uploader, and the people who view the image? I understand and realize that Wikipedia does not offer legal advice, so instead of telling me that please just answer the question =] (its a hypothetical anyways!). Thanks for supposing with me. --71.117.41.232 (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Point 1: If it was obviously a minor's genitalia (stated to be so, or visibly prepubescent, or something), then we would delete it immediately. If there was absoltely no way to tell, then we wouldn't be able to tell, so we wouldn't be able to do anything. Point 2: In fact, images of naked children or their body parts do exist in a legal context; they are necessary for purposes of medical study. Pornography is intended to sexually arouse. A simple penis shot in an encyclopedia article is clearly meant to be academic, and thus not pornography. Point 3: We get tons and tons and tons and people taking pictures of their genitals (or household pets) to try and replace the ones we have. It's a weird sort of vanity, and it almost always gets immediately deleted. So unless some of the pictures we already have are secretly from minors (in which case points 1 and 2 apply), this is unlikely to come up. --Masamage ♫ 18:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

As long as they're not taking photos of their pets' genitals. 'Cause that would be weird... FiggyBee (talk) 20:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

We do have pictures of naked kids on Wikipedia already. The article is titled something like Children and nudity or something like that. I'd go find it for you but I'm on my mother-in-law's computer and would rather not have that in her history to be found later.  :-) Dismas|^(talk) 21:00, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Nudity and children is the proper title, and none of those are sexually explicit (just cute kid tushies). Kuronue | Talk 21:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The posters above are correct that nonsexual child nudity is by no means illegal in the U.S. If it was, a lot of people's bathtub photos would get them arrested! But that said, in the hypothetical situation that a young person -- say, a 15-year-old -- uploaded a nude picture of himself or herself to Wikipedia, I would think that it would and should be deleted to avoid even the slightest hint of impropriety. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Humans Dancing - Why?

Seriously, why do humans of all races, ages, nationalities, genders, cultures, sects etc., dance, and appear to have done so through the ages? It might be another way of exercising, or socialising, or showing off even, but although I like dancing in a variety of styles from Jive, to Salsa to Scottish Country Dance (I am over 60), when I stand and look at others dancing, I find it a bit, well, ridiculous. And there are so many other ways to exercise, socialise, and compete - aren't there? 81.145.242.25 (talk) 21:11, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

because they all invented rhythmic music, which makes a lot of people feel like moving to the beat, which is dancing. Kuronue | Talk 21:24, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I have read a theory that dancing is a form of courtship display. According to this theory, coordinated movement is a sign of physical prowess and probably correlates with a reliable genome. Marco polo (talk) 22:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it was best stated in Shall We Dance? (2004 film): "The rumba is the vertical expression of a horizontal wish. You have to hold her, like the skin on her thigh is your reason for living. Let her go, like your heart's being ripped from your chest. Throw her back, like you're going to have your way with her right here on the dance floor. And then finish, like she's ruined you for life." --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 03:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

When encouraged to "shake it, shake it, shake it" I have at times obliged and shook it. Inexplicably, it can be a fabulous experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.239.246.106 (talk) 08:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I like Gadget's response - forget the dancing - the description is a real turn on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.86 (talk) 11:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Same names

Hi, is there a word for 'people with identical names'? as we'd like to set up a global social network group —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.20.27 (talk) 22:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Namesakes. --Anonymous, 01:42 UTC, November 24, 2007.

That's almost always used for people who are named after each other, but the wiktionary article has a list of words in other languages that always, unambiguously mean 'having the same name'. I'd say borrow from one of those. :) --Masamage ♫ 01:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I thought two persons sharing the same name were homonyms but the article doesn't mention people~. I guess following the definition it could still apply, only it would be applying to the name and not the person (?)(that doesn't make sense). Keria (talk) 11:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Interesting point. Homonyms are words, not groups of words. In "Bill Smith" and "Bill Smith", the names of 2 different people, the "Bill"s are homonyms and the "Smith"s are homonyms, but the "Bill Smith"s are not. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Curiously, the literal translation of "homonym" is "same name". --Masamage ♫ 02:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

A guy called Dave Gorman searched for all the people with that name and wrote a book about it.He might have a name for it...hotclaws 13:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Call it the "Doppel Gang". --Milkbreath (talk) 15:50, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Nice one! --Masamage ♫ 02:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

November 24

Proper method for stopping at stop sign

What is the proper method of stopping at a stop sign in a car with a manual transmission? Does one:

• Break gently while approaching the stop sign.
• Step in the clutch to dis-engage the transmission once the car begins to stall.
• Shift to neutral.
• Glide to the stop sign and stop completely.
• Shift to 1st gear to get ready to go.

Are these steps correct (for a driving exam)? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't say which country you are in, but here's a rule of thumb. It all depends on how long you need to actually stop for. If it's less than 10 seconds then remain in gear with your foot on the brake. 10-30 seconds - go into neutral with foot on brake. Longer than 30 secs - go into neutral and apply hand brake (emergency/parking brake). Pulling off as you would normally do from a standing start. --WebHamster 01:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

In Canada for a quick stop, less than 10 seconds I guess. But would the procedure I listed above be incorrect in the eyes of a driving examiner? Acceptable (talk) 01:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm in the UK, but an Advanced Driver and the problems I can see (unless it's just the way you describe it) is the "glide" bit. You shouldn't freewheel a car ever, even over short distances. It should either be under power or under braking. Free-wheeling is considered to be a car that isn't under control. The usual way is to synchronise clutch and brake so that you smoothly come off one whilst engaging the other, timing it so that the clutch is fully disengaged at the same time the wheels stop rolling. Once you have fully stopped you can then go into neutral. When getting ready to start again is when you go into first --WebHamster 01:29, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Suppose I'm approaching the stop in 3rd gear and will do what you have described. When I'm braking and synchronizing the clutch like you said, can I keep my car in 3rd gear? Then shift into 1st gear when I have fully stopped. Or do I have to progressively downshift? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You can do either, but again it depends on the circumstances and environment that you are in. Going down through the gears is a safe method of gentle braking, especially in icy weather so it's doubtful an examiner would criticise you for doing so. The thing to remember is that putting the car in neutral whilst you are moving will at best get you marked down, at worst get you failed. Currently I drive an auto, but for years I drove manual and I did my Roadcraft training in a manual and I have to say I always used the going down through the gears method, but even then I didn't necessarily go from 3 ->2 ->1. It's quite acceptable to go directly from 3 to 1 whilst braking. --WebHamster 02:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd also mention that there are distinct difference between locales. I have been told that UK drivers education programs suggest something very similar to what you describe -- that is, putting the car in neutral and using the parking brake at stoplights. Stop lights there also have a RED+YELLOW phase (between RED and GREEN) that informs drivers that they should engage the clutch and put the car into gear. In the US, not only are the stoplights not configured this way, but automatic transmissions are MUCH more prevalent. I'm in the US, have a manual transmission and personally will often just keep the transmission in gear, but hold in the clutch. This is bad for the thrust bearing (I think), and if I'm going to be waiting for a longer time, I'll toss it into neutral. I almost never use the parking brake (ebrake?) at stop lights. --Mdwyer (talk) 06:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I would add "check for pedestrians and other vehicles", which is the whole purpose of stopping. —Nricardo (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm talking UK here. My instructor, many years ago, taught me to progressively brake and disengage the clutch until stationary. Then disengage gears to neutral and pull on handbrake if the stop is likely to be for more than, say, 20 seconds. If it's a short stop, like entering another road, then it is not necessary to pull on the handbrake unless you are on an incline and likely to roll forward or back. Richard Avery (talk) 16:37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

this is a uncommon but normal thing, or a thing that you just have getting a disease or making plastic surgery ??

This thing on this video [[11]] (WARNING: adult content) is a uncommon but normal thing, or a thing that you just have getting a disease or making plastic surgery ?? 201.8.163.51 (talk) 02:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You'd be better describing it than expecting people to download an 8Mb mpeg (presumably porno) video. --WebHamster 02:28, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

This is fake. it is not plastic sergury. they are just holding a piece of rubber, well moldered rubber. she is clearly faking as there is no or very little penetration. special efects. further more, you are going to need sergury on your eyes, as you might soon go blind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.151.98 (talk) 03:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

career prospects

hi, i am presently studying bsc aeronautical science at an anna university approved college. what are the scope of job in this field and furthere educational possibilities????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.41.70 (talk) 05:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The sky's the limit! Sorry. Someone had to say it. And I got here first! Matt Deres (talk) 02:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

barking dogs

I have not been able to find any natural cause why dogs bark at or chase people, bicycles and cars. For instance, such behavior might have developed from a reaction to herds of animals trampling dog dens and killing their young thus eliciting this natural reaction to anything that might potentially be a moving threat.

Forgetting natural causes as the reason it occurred to me that such behavior might be the result of breeding for the purpose of our ancestors using dogs to protect campsites similar to the way Dobermans are bred as personal body guards for their owners. In other words, that the reason some dogs bark and chase people, bicycles and cars is because most were used by our human ancestors for protection and hunting and were bred to have this type of behavior regardless of their original breed for the purpose of protecting or wining food for their human companions to the point of this behavior now being genetically ingrained and randomly dominant or passive but spanning many current breeds.

Since many dogs do not display this sort of behavior can anyone confirm of refute this explanation as to why some dogs bark and chase people, bicycles and cars? 71.100.164.177 (talk) 05:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You might find some books by Temple Grandin to be interesting -- especially "Animals in Translation". In her book, she explains that older wolves don't bark. Barking is something that wolf puppies do. It is something they grow out of, and if they didn't they wouldn't be able to sneak up on food. On the other hand, humans are good at making food, but useless when it comes to things like not becoming food themselves. So, humans needed noisy animals to protect them. So, in return for easy food (stalking kibble isn't all that hard), wolves traded in their ability to grow up. Humans then were able to settle down and start agriculture. That's her take on it, at least, and I'm probably mangling it horribly. It is a fascinating book. --Mdwyer (talk) 06:12, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

By the way, she suggests wolfiness is directly related to ... uh... barkiness. Dogs that are VERY divorced from wolves are yappy. However, the larger, more wolf-like breeds are by comparison much quieter. I had a siberian husky growing up. She didn't bark much, but she howled quite a bit. By comparison, our cockapoo became unhinged at the sound of a doorbell. A third datapoint would have to be the Basenji, which is generally a 'barkless' breed, although it isn't particularly wolfish. --Mdwyer (talk) 06:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC) (Edit: --Mdwyer (talk) 07:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC))

Behaviors may indeed be subject to "upsettedness" or "calmedness" as I would expect Temple Grandin's assessment to relate and therefore subject to pack mentality. For instance, I pass a fenced in yard every couple of days wherein two dogs bark and give chase. Sometimes when there is only the larger dog of mixed breed (hound and maybe pit bull) he may bark and chase unenthusiastically unless sunning himself in which case he may avoid even a glance and not bark or give chase at all. 71.100.164.177 (talk) 07:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Certainly there are a lot of features of modern dogs that are shared with Wolf puppies and not adult Wolves. Barking is certainly one, floppy ears is another, the desire to play is a third. Since these characteristics are common to most kinds of domesticated dog, we can assume that they were (and perhaps still are) being purposefully bred for those puppy-like characteristics. Being a good guard dog entails being willing to bark at intruders - so you could imagine how (in times of trouble) the good guard dogs would survive into the next generation while the terrible (non-barking) guard dogs would not. So between an evolutionary pressure to be able to work with humans and actual selective breeding - we have puppy-like, barking, floppy-eared dogs. SteveBaker (talk) 19:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Full Protection Articles

Can anyone tell me if there are any fully protected articles on wiki at the moment, i was interested to see which ones are they.Roadrunnerz45 (talk) 08:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

These articles should be in Category:Protected. Hope that helps! --Lox (t,c) 08:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Number of police officers by country

Does the EU/UN or some other International Organization keep statistical information about the number of law enforcement officers in countries on a national level? I wish to compare crime rate against the number of people employed to enforce them as well as a general expression of "harshness" of laws - ie. how much time you must generally serve for 1. degree murder, rape, robbery etc. Does anybody have an idea for where I can obtain information of this type? I have relatively good data on crime rate and national laws but lack the required information about law enforcement... Thanks.

The Irish police, An Garda Síochána , have 13,821 officers. Someone else might be able to find a link to some website that shows info on other countries--Phoenix-wiki ^{(talk · contribs)} 15:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

American police, 738,000 law enforcement officers in the United States in 2002. Others are listed here. 71.100.164.177 (talk) 16:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Bundled typefaces

Inspired by Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#What's this font?, and particularly one of the answers, I've had a quick look at the typefaces that came bundled with my computer, either with Windows or with other programs such as Microsoft Office. There must be close to 200 typefaces, and yet many, if not most, of them would cost me about £20 to buy. Taking oblique and bold face into account (with have to be bought seperately), there is probably several hundred pounds worth of typefaces on my computer - probably more than the associated software cost in the first place. How can the software companies can afford to buy the rights to all these typefaces, only to give them away for next to nothing. Or, alternatively, how can the typeface companies afford to give all these typefaces to Microsoft for so little per user? Laïka 12:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Most of the fonts included with Windows are "knock-offs"; i.e. copies or near copies of other fonts. Under U.S. laws, font styles are hard to protect, while font names are easy to trademark. I think Microsoft got most of their fonts from Monotype. Let's take the ubiquitous Arial font: it is a knock-off of the venerable Helvetica font from Linotype; both are actually based on earlier fonts. Both share the same proportions and weight, but have slightly different glyphs; one can be easily substituted for another. I do not know if Microsoft purchased their font set outright or if they pay royalties, but everybody gets their money in sales of Windows. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 13:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The price of fonts is like the price of software. The more you sell, the cheaper it gets. The cost of designing a font is a fixed amount - the cost of 'manufacturing' a font is almost zero - the cost of putting it on a disk or distributing it over the Ethernet. So, if your font cost $10,000 to develop - then if (like Microsoft) you sell a hundred million copies - the price per copy is one tenth of a cent. If you sell only 1000 copies to specialist printing companies or whatever then the price per copy is $10 plus profit. SteveBaker (talk) 19:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

What's the point in prolonging the inevitable?

What's the point in prolonging the inevitable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.153.74 (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Your partner's pleasure? Azi Like a Fox (talk) 17:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It depends what the inevitable is. If it's unpleasant, inconvenient, undesirable, etc, then it's natural to avoid it as long as you can. That's not to say it's wise to avoid it, but it's understandable. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You seem to have conflated two expressions: "delay the inevitable" and "prolong the suffering". There is not only no point in "prolonging the inevitable", there is no sense to it. --Milkbreath (talk) 00:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Take politics, for example. Parties contest elections, hoping to win power. No matter how popular a government is, no matter how many positive world-changing things they may do, eventually, sooner or later, they'll be voted out. They could say, it's all going to end badly one day, so why bother getting into it at all for the (relatively) short-term? But humans are not like that, particularly where the prospect of power is concerned. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I've got a touch of turkey poisoning affecting my brain, but I don't follow. There is no expression "prolong the inevitable" and rightly so, because it doesn't make any sense. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I think everybody is just reading it as if it were "delay the inevitable". Cryo921 (talk) 01:37, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I answer to the real question, there is none since that is a nonsensical phrase. Cryo921 (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Military service question

How many countries in the world have:

• voluntary military service for men, no military service for women,
• voluntary military service for both men and women,
• mandatory military service for men, no military service for women,
• mandatory military service for men, voluntary military service for women,
• mandatory military service for both men and women?

JIP | Talk 17:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Some of this is in military service, but it is not broken down by gender. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 17:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Conscription has more. Rmhermen (talk) 18:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

cotton sheet by weight

I have been searching the net and wikipedia for cottonsheets by weigt messured in in squaremeter or feet, without any results. I know there are differnt qualities so some average messure will do just fine. It might bee a strange queastin, but I realy have to know for artikel I,m writing about cottonconsumpion in the world. Thank`s Gunnar Sweden —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.94.65.50 (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

FWIW I thought cotton sheets were differentiated mainly by threads per inch, not by weight. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

"Please feel free to take advantage of the chambermaid"

Are there any hotels in which, as a special service, you really are free to take advantage of the chambermaid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.193.181 (talk) 21:29, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean any hotels where the hosteller is a pimp? (Also known in some circles as the ho-teller.) 71.100.172.18 (talk) 21:36, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean to act like Spike Lester whenever the hotel's chambermaid enters your hotel room? Ericthebrainiac (talk) 21:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

growing up

The ability to breed a dog with all the qualities of a child's animated and cuddly stuffed toy appear in the cockapoo. Are such dogs bred for people who have an inability to grow out of childhood? 71.100.172.18 (talk) 21:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

What? No. Such dogs are bred because they look cute and cuddly and one doesn't have to be a child to appreciate things that are cute and cuddly, as you seem to be supposing. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 22:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

November 25

Font

What font is wikipedia in? 86.130.249.161 (talk) 05:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

It depends what skin you are using. When you're using the default skin, Monobook, the default font is Arial, when you are using Cologne Blue it is Verdana, I believe. Be aware, however, your browser could be set to over-rule the default font. Rockpocket 08:40, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Plug-hole water. Silly question possibly?

You know the whole water going one-way down the plug-hole in the northern hemisphere and another in the south? What happens near the equator? Presumably there is an area where things 'switch'. Say if you were to have a 100 gallons of water and could get the (vortex?) going and then could maintain the flow long enough to travel from northern hemisphere to south would the water just continue on its current path or switch? I know you can do the opposite in each hemisphere using your hands, just more interested in what would happen in the above scenario. ny156uk (talk) 00:33, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

You are referring to the coriolis force urban legend? [12] --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 01:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

To be fair, the Snopes page neglects to mention that under carefully controlled conditions – allowing the water to settle undisturbed for an extended period of time (several hours or more) and pulling the plug in such a way as to avoid agitating the liquid – the 'correct' rotation induced by the Coriolis force is indeed observed. (This was demonstrated for the Northern hemisphere by Shapiro at MIT in 1962 (A.H. Shapiro, "Bath-Tub Vortex", Nature 196:1080-1) and for the Southern hemisphere by Trefethen et al. in Sydney, Australia in 1965 (L.M. Trefethen et al., "The Bath-Tub Vortex in the Southern Hemisphere" Nature 207:1084-5).) So for an ideal system, the vortex will go the right way, assuming that there are no other forces acting on the system to overwhelm the Coriolis force.

Note that once the vortex starts, reversing it is unlikely, even if your hypothetical experimenter carried his apparatus across the equator. Vortices, once started, tend to build their momentum; the little push from the Coriolis force is almost certainly going to be too weak to reverse the vortex's direction. (The Coriolis force is going to be extremely weak close to the equator anyway—establishing a system that is sufficiently unperturbed to demonstrate the Coriolis effect at all will be very difficult, and moving the apparatus any distance is likely to make matters even worse.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The Coriolis effect is weak everywhere on the Earth. What's different at different latitudes is its direction. The "force" is caused by the Earth's rotation and therefore is always parallel to the Earth's equatorial plane. Which means it's horizontal at the poles (an object moving horizontally deflects sideways), vertical at the equator, and diagonal everywhere else. The original poster's question reflects the misconception that there is a sudden change in the effect as you cross the equator, but that's not true. Rather, the direction of the force changes gradually all the way from one pole to the other.

Normally only the horizontal component matters since the vertical component is much less than the object's weight and can simply be ignored. For example, when a vortex forms from a fluid converging horizontally -- whether water in Shapiro's drain experiment or air in a hurricane -- only the horizontal component of the Coriolis "force" contributes to the vortex. The horizontal component is maximum at the poles -- but still very weak! -- and gradually decreases as you get nearer the equator. This is why there is a zone several hundred miles wide near the equator where hurricanes never start.

By the way, this question really belonged on the Science reference desk, where, as it happens, the Coriolis effect came up in the last few days here and then again here (which presumably will soon be here).

--Anonymous, edited 05:40 UTC, November 25, 2007.

It should be noted that the MIT study on bathtub vortices used a very large carefully constructed, precisely cylindrical tank with a very small plug hole in the center. It took a long time for the water to lose all of it's internal 'swirl' so that coriolis would be noticable and the results they came up with were only just better than chance. Even something as simple as pulling the plug out asymmetrically is enough to wipe out the effect. It would be very tough indeed to see that effect in any real situation. Hence one should not deduce from the study that: "Yes, Coriolis forces does affect bathtubs" - the correct deduction is that for any real bathtub, coriolis forces do not in any way affect the direction of the swirl.

What amazes me is that this urban legend ever got started. I mean you only have to watch the water flowing out of your bath or sink half a dozen times to realise that it's utterly bogus. How is it possible that ANYONE was taken in by the legend? Are people really happier to hear some story than to look for themselves?

SteveBaker (talk) 09:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Reference desk, i luv u! y can't i search u?

I'd like to argue for a new wiki that is unique to (and enhances) reference desk questions. I have posted many-a-question to the reference desk, questions not quite entertained in Wikipedia articles, where one elite user or another would reply: look "here" or "here" for another question posted similar to yours. I am not a reference desk pro and cannot recall off the top of my head when other questions like mine were posted. I can't even search for such questions! As far as I know Wikipedia has only one general search that does not posit reference desk questions anywhere on its popularity charts. I looked for keywords of all my old questions (extremely unique words) and nothing popped up.

I love Wikipedia so much: trust knowledge to users of the world, regulated by users of the world and together we will come up with an answer. Tonight I posted the exact same question to answers.yahoo.com as I did to the reference desk on entertainment [13] and within 20 minutes I received 2 answers from yahoo and several hours later 0 answers from Wikipedia. Citizens of Wikipedia: I love you all, and we must alter course to be able to provide the most timely replies to rogue questions that may, not to put too fine a point on it, enhance our species. I can't stomach the fact that all the beautiful, glorious debate of the reference desk, and all those amazing questions are lost to the world. Sappysap (talk) 01:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There's no question that Wikipedia's internal search leaves something to be desired. However, this is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that Google regularly and consistently indexes Wikipedia. Add the string site:en.wikipedia.org to any search on Google, and it will return only results that come from this site. To narrow your search further, you can add the page name to your search: site:en.wikipedia.org "Wikipedia:Reference desk".

For what it's worth, we're usually pretty good at answering questions. I haven't looked at the Entertainment Desk, but I know that over at the Science Desk we answer two-thirds of questions in the first hour after they're posted. Over all the Desks, we answer about 96% of questions eventually (with nearly all of those answers in the first 24 hours). See Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#So how good are we? for more stats. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

TenOfAllTrades, that is a wonderful and perfect reply. Isn't is such a reprehinsible shame that no one (without the information in your reply) will ever read it? Something is wrong here. Sappysap (talk) 02:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I figured that it's a useful thing worth preserving, so I went to add a link to it in an appropriate place. It turns out that the Ref Desk Archives page already has a link to a Google search—and one that happens to be even more specific. Turns out we're even better than I thought. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 05:08, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

At the moment Wikipedia is many things but it is not easily traversable (it's better than Wikimedia Commons, where you have to know exactly what sub-category the type of image you are looking for is in if you are going to find it! Woe to him who doesn't know the sub-species of the animal he looks for). "At some point" this will no doubt be improved, either by people developing the project or by some entrepreneurial soul who will realize that it will be a pretty great "killer app" to make it easier to find things on Wikipedia. In the meantime, though, it might be worth posting a note or two on the Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives page about better ways to search the desk. As for speed of reply, we make no guarantees to speed or quality or even breadth. Certain types of questions are often answered within moments of them being posted, while others languish because nobody who reads them happens to have a useful answer (some should languish a bit more than they do, as people who reply do not always have useful answers!). Alas, such is life. For things like Entertainment in particular I bet Yahoo! Answers will give you better answers but I'd be surprised if they could give anywhere near as good Humanities and Science answers as the reference desk, the two areas where it regularly excels above any other site I've seen. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 04:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

(P.S. I don't read the Entertainment desk because I'm not good at trivia and find it, well, trivial, but I went over and managed to find the answer to your question in about 15 seconds. I bet others could as well, but my bet—and maybe this is a bit chauvinist—is that there are probably less people who answer the Entertainment Desk and that the better quick-researchers here, among which I count myself, might not frequent it much or as often). --24.147.86.187 (talk) 04:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's search engine certainly isn't great - but the idea is that Wikipedia isn't a search engine. The idea is to let search engines do searching and encyclopedias store information. It's hard to build a really good search engine - and it's better that the Wiki developers work on making a better data repository than going off and re-inventing the wheel by developing another search engine. So going outside of Wikipedia and using Google (or whatever takes your fancy) isn't something you should recoil from. It's how the thing is supposed to work.

As for the Entertainment desk, sadly it's one of the less popular ones - as you can see from the chart on the right, it gets fewer questions than any of the other desks except for math - but (worse) has a much larger percentage of questions that go unanswered than on any of the other desks. This is sad - but there are simply fewer people interested in answering questions of that nature. SteveBaker (talk) 09:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

How would one wear a v-neck tee?

So in a moment of folly I seem to have landed myself a v-neck tshirt. Now, this is purportedly unisex but I've tried, and v-neck tshirts on men just don't seem to work. Would anyone have any ideas how to integrate one that plunges all the way down to the chest with anything else to make it look remotely presentable? It's black, if that's important.

AlmostCrimes (talk) 04:55, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Wear it over a white turtleneck or a dickie. Corvus cornix_talk 05:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Colour blindness

I have a colour blind friend who has published a web page with white lettering on a very pale yellow background. The lettering is almost unreadable. What colour(s) do you think he thought that he was using. Any ideas please?--88.110.17.80 (talk) 07:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Try having a look at the following links.

• Colour Blind: Design implications of color blindness
• http://wellstyled.com/tools/colorscheme2/index-en.html (See the drop down in the bottom right corner

Peachey88 ^{(Talk Page | Contribs)} 07:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

It's really hard to know without knowing which kind of colour blindness he has. There are about a dozen kinds - most of which are very rare. I doubt it's the commonest weak-red/weak-green problem because if that were the case then the page would look pretty similar to him compared to how you or I would see it. The difference between white and yellow is the amount of blue present in the image. So someone who could only see shades of blue would think that white-on-yellow was a lot like white-on-dark-grey would appear to a normally sighted person - which would be pretty readable. But that would mean that your friend is seeing no red or green at all - and that's an exceedingly rare form of colour blindness. If he can't see any red at all - then white-on-yellow looks roughly like white-on-green and if he can't see any green at all then this looks like white-on-red to him. Either of those is pretty readable, so you can see how that might come about. But without knowing his exact colour deficiency, it's hard to guess what it might be like - and it's always possible that he simply has bad taste! However, his problem is likely to be one of the more severe kinds - my son is colour-blind (one of the milder varieties, thankfully) and he would never make that particular mistake. He needs to learn what set of colours he can use that will look the same to him as they do to us. But in the absence of further information, it would be useful to gently suggest that your friend sticks to using shades of grey from black through white for website design. That monochrome 'look' - done right - can be quite powerful for normally-sighted people and his web pages will look exactly the same to him as they do to us - so it's 'safe'. So I think he can still make an impression on people by powerful use of monochrome. SteveBaker (talk) 09:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all this erudition, I forgot to add the irony that my friend is an art dealer!--88.110.17.80 (talk) 11:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)