Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/South of Heaven

South of Heaven

I wish to nominate current Good Article South of Heaven as a Featured Article Candidate, a 1988 album by Californian heavy metal act Slayer. While the article seems short somewhat, I feel it's comprehensive in that it draws upon all the information currently available on the topic. The album remains relatively undiscussed from a critical stance thus far, and isn't as well known or notable to heavy metal music audiences compared to its 1986 predecessor Reign In Blood. Therefore, there isn't as much published material available. All feedback is welcomed and thanked for in advance. I hope the article proves to be a good read. LuciferMorgan 00:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Good read, well sourced. Some comments:

1. The Recording section might be more aptly titled "Background", as it discusses elements of not just recording, but some points about production and development as well.

I've gone for this. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2. Photography and illustration could be more simply titled "Design", or "Cover design" or even just illustration.

Not too sure if this section can be renamed - Larry Carroll painted the album cover art, while the back cover features a band picture by Glen E. Friedman. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

3. Reception and criticism should be more simply titled "Critical reception", I believe this is more the norm, e.g. for articles on films.

I've done this. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No need for "However" at the beginning of the "However, Kim Neely of Rolling Stone" sentence.

I thought the "However" ties it in with the last paragraph. If others also agree the word is unnecessary, I don't mind it being scrapped. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~Last two sentences of this section do not belong in a Reception section~~, this should probably be earlier in the Recording section.

I've added the last two sentences to the end of the Recording section. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Overall syntax in this section is very good.

Thanks very much. :) LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cover interpretations could be more simply titled just "Covers", and could stand-alone as its own subsection.

I've followed this. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

4. Live should be retitled "Live performances."

I agree, and have done so. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

5. Any relevant External links?

I'm not aware of any, but if anyone has any they can suggest, then they can be of course considered. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great work overall, good job. Cirt (talk) 12:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks very much for your support and constructive feedback, which is greatly appreciated. :) LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Meets criteria. I see no problems. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 17:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support. :) LuciferMorgan (talk) 03:23, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support The article looks very good. But while reading it, I found myself correcting a bunch of small copyediting issues. Things like inconsistently using straight and curly quotes, unnecessary or missing italics, and British conventions instead of American. I've corrected everything I noticed, but a more thorough copyedit would probably be helpful. 17Drew (talk) 22:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a British user, and use British conventions. I have no intention of using American conventions, which I find is more or less a dumbed down version of the English language. I think it's about time the Americans (generally) stop trying to Americanize the English language too. However, thanks for your edits. They are really appreciated - I'll have to read Wikipedia guidelines on italics / quotes sometime and get more clued up sometime. LuciferMorgan (talk) 18:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:
- "In order to contrast the aggressive assault put forth on Reign in Blood, Slayer consciously slowed down the tempo of the album as a whole." I think "aggressive assault" might be a bit too emotional for Wikipedia, but I'll leave that up to you.

This is actually a quote, so I've attempted to clarify this within the article. LuciferMorgan (talk) 18:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- "The rendition of Judas Priest's "Dissident Aggressor" is the only cover version to appear on a Slayer studio album. This is due to the war-themed lyrics, with Hanneman describing the track as "more just like one of those odd songs that a lot of people didn't know, but it was a favorite of Kerry and I, so we just picked that one."" I'm not sure I understand this, so it's probably a bit ambiguous. Are the war-themed lyrics the reason Slayer chose to cover this particular song or the reason they haven't done any covers since?

They chose the song due to the war themed lyrics, though I've tried to clarify this. LuciferMorgan (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- Why are the band members' evaluations of the album in the "Background" section? That seems kind of odd to me.--Carabinieri (talk) 00:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The evaluations given in the "Background" section just seemed the more appropriate place to put them. LuciferMorgan (talk) 18:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for your comments, which are much appreciated. Should you have any others, feel free to share them. LuciferMorgan (talk) 18:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Objections I saw your comment in FAC talk - hope I can help improve this article - it seems to have some issues in regards to FA Criteria;

""Behind the Crooked Cross" is rarely played live as Hanneman hates the track," - the personal feelings of someone are always POV, unreliable, and need sourcing and attribution.

This already has sourcing and attribution to Decibel Magazine. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- i mean attribution within the writing - I don't believe Decibel Magazine is the NPOV on his Hanneman's "hate".--Keerllston 15:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"In order to offset the pace of the group's previous album, Slayer deliberately slowed down the album's tempo." in the lead is very authoritative - may I suggest "Bandmenber have said that the slower tempo of the album is due to the need to offset it from the band's previous album.

The current sentence in the lead more closely resembles the stance of the group's official biography, so I am not changing it. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"according to the group's official biography" should be added?--Keerllston 15:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"While some critics praised the musical shift, others more accustomed to the style of earlier releases were disappointed. " - ummm... some liked it some didn't -obvious and weaseling

This is a direct quote, so therefore cannot be changed. Also, since it's a quote it isn't weasly. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

??? direct quote??? - it doesn't (didn't?) have quotes--Keerllston 15:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"However, Kim Neely of Rolling Stone dismissed the album as "genuinely offensive satanic drivel."" - why "however" and why is the criticism section of "Critical Reception" so small? - I suggest "Dislike of the Album included that of Neely who said "[...]"" and so on.

The word "However" is used to tie the topic, but can be taken out if need be. The negative part of the "Critical reception" section is small since I cannot find any other negative reception. Therefore, unless you can find negative and reliable reception then this is not a valid objection. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notes: a third of citations are from All Music Guide - a sixth are from blabbermouth - are these good/reputable/reliable sources? there are a total of 36 sources, none of them books, has there been little scholarly work regarding this article's subject matter?

This is heavy metal we're discussing, not Shakespeare. There's currently no English language biographies on Slayer. All Music Guide is only used to cite track listings, and some don't even feel the need to cite track listings. As concerns Blabbermouth, it's the best news source on heavy metal without question. If anyone says they can find a better news source, then I say they're not well informed. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

>--Keerllston 14:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I don't find any of your objections valid for the aforementioned reasons. However, thanks for taking the time to comment. LuciferMorgan (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Objection not adressed I'm okay with LuciferMorgan finding my objections invalid.--Keerllston 15:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't any need to highlight this - the relevant person can find this out for themselves by reading your objection and my responses. LuciferMorgan (talk) 16:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't there a need? I thought you know - maybe my "opinion" mattered -it is my comment after all- and I think my "opinion" on whether my comment was addressed was pretty relevant as to whether my comment was addressed - feel free to disagree--Keerllston 16:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]