Template talk:Cryptography block

Break up "algorithms" list

The "algorithms" list appears to be getting pretty long; I think it should be split up based on one criteria or another. The problem: which criteria to use? One quite obvious possibility would be SP-network/Feistel network/other. Opinions? -- intgr 22:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure there is a really good way to organize these ciphers. Block size, maybe?

SPN is a pretty general term; it just means any block cipher that isn't a Feistel network, right?

Another idea would be to remove some of the less-notable ciphers from the template. I haven't added Nimbus, for example, because I don't think it's important enough. I would probably take off DES-X, Iraqi, Libelle, and S-1, maybe GDES and Mercy (even though I wrote that article). Ntsimp 00:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really think that just picking some individual ciphers for removal is going to clean up much. Grouping by block size probably wouldn't be much better than SPN/Feistel either, as there would perhaps be just '64 bits', '128 bits' and 'other' groups.

I guess that ideally, the navbox would list ciphers by their popularity/importance, however those are difficult to quantify fairly. Now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps they could be grouped by recognition/certification – e.g., AES finalists, NESSIE-approved, CRYPTREC-approved, etc? This is something I've also thought about adding to the infobox (Template talk:Infobox block cipher#"Certification" field). The downside, though, is that ciphers can fall under several of these. Do you think this would be a more useful criteria? -- intgr 01:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think we could have a short list of ciphers that are both widely used and included in major standards and a long list of everything else. Ciphers listed in the SSH standard appear to be AES, 3DES, DES, Blowfish, Twofish, Serpent, IDEA, and CAST-128 (and RC4, which of course isn't a block cipher).

Skipjack is indirectly included in SSL (as Fortezza), is used in the Defense Message System, and is unusual because of its role in the Clipper chip controversy, so there's an argument for putting it at the top level. I guess I lean against; it doesn't feel like it's in the same category as IDEA or 3DES.

I think I'd stick to just those two levels of hierarchy -- "widely implemented and included in major standards" and "everything else". But for completeness: ciphers of historical interest might include Skipjack (role in Clipper controversy), Lucifer (predecessor to DES), Square (predecessor to AES), and Khufu and Khafre (early, strong software-optimized algorithms). CRYPTREC and NESSIE have lots of recommendations, but I'm not sure how notable they are if they're not widely used -- AES finalists have a similar status. Camellia will apparently be implemented in Firefox 3, it's royalty-free, and there is some sort of effort to get it into standards. I may have missed other academically-respected or notable ciphers.

So -- I'm thinking AES, 3DES, DES, Blowfish, Twofish, Serpent, IDEA, and CAST-128 on the top row, everything else in a long list below. 64.175.42.39 19:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't want to start cherry-picking ciphers because I figured that the last thing we needed was an arbitrary line. But the more I consider your comment the more I agree with your choice. Although I think IDEA and CAST should go under the "historical" section as well — they are notable for being the default on various versions of PGP, but these days they're just included for compatibility reasons. -- intgr [talk] 08:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

3DES v. Triple DES

3DES is listed twice in this block, once as "3DES" (a Common Algorithm) and once as "Triple DES" (an Other Algorithm). Is this intentional (i.e. someone looking for Triple DES might not know to look for 3DES instead)? George A. M. (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]