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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DLWDWFreek (talk | contribs) at 02:58, 13 February 2008 (→Comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Ancillary talk archives
  • /Archive:West Indies (21 November 2004 - 14 April 2006) archive of several past discussions on Talk:African American about people in the U.S. of African ancestry via the West Indies and whether the label "African American" would apply to them
  • /Archive:White South Africans (creation - 21 January 2005) archive of several past discussions on Talk:African American about White South Africans on and whether the label "African American" would apply to them
  • /Archive:Do not feed the trolls


Regions of significant population

The info on this table (on the right of the page) seems misleading - yes, most African Americans live in the South, but there are substantial populations in urban areas in the Northeast, Midwest and West. The fact that they are concentrated in urban areas in those regions doesn't mean they are not significant in those regions.--Parkwells (talk) 01:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

White African Americans

Why aren't there references to White African Americans...I mean what is the South African portion of Americans that are white classified? South African Americans? Blacks are negros..that isn't offensive- since when is Black or White racist? Im called white I am not offended. Add South African Americans or South Africans who live in America to the list of peoples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.108.50 (talk) 16:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of what you call them, this article is about African Americans who are descendants of free Negros and slaves. The title of the article is African American because that's the most common name used in the United States. The article African immigration to the United States is about more recent African immigrants. That's the agreed upon but still contentious breakdown. CJ (talk) 20:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the intromission, but in my objective look over the theme, i think the difference between "afroamerican people" and "white people" is pure politic tube-looking. The thing is that you have to look around and to not see black and white; take a look around and see that the things, the people, the plants and the animals have many colours and the colour is irrelevant on what they are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.108.50 (talk)

Well think what you like but there are differences. They exist in shared historical and cultural experiences. To deny that is the same as trying to say that we're all clones of one another. Identifying a historical or cultural distinction is only a division if you make it one. It's easy to be "colorblind" if you're pretending that everyone is the same. It's much harder to be multicultural and accept everyone for who they are without making them be you. But unless you have a suggestion for improving this article this topic is over.CJ (talk) 17:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a response to the first commenter who wanted to be anonymous. There is nothing offensive about the term black. I'm black and proud. The term negro is offensive and no longer used. If you or anybody else, regardless of race, called me a negro, you will have a bloody lip and a black eye. The term African American applies to American blacks, like me, who are descendants of freed black American slaves or American slavery. If you don't want to use it, fine. But don't tell people what they should or should not be called. Now, a person's nationality refers to there country/nation of origin/birth. Africa is a continent, not a country/nation, just like Europe is a continent, not a country/nation. American is my nationality because I was born, raised, and bred in the United States of America. A person (white or black) from South Africa, a country/nation, is South African. That's there nationality. I could go on, but I don't have time to educate dumb people. Have a nice day. Fclass (talk) 21:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wait so are you saying that a white south african who lives in the US isnt african american even though they are south african? African American is a heritage not a race. Just like egyptians who tend to be what we would classify as arabs are still african american even tho they are not black. African American does not only include people with dark skin.71.174.200.210 (talk) 22:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No but it does only include people who are descended from slaves. A black jamaican has more claim to the term african american than does a South African. A South African is a South African American. 193.129.64.154 (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fclass, I'd like to point out that you're an excellent representative of your race, causing someone physical harm because they called you a nasty name is always a plus in my book. 76.25.115.99 (talk) 06:18, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Also, that they say "I'm proud to be black". Sounds like a racist to me. I don't go around saying "I'm proud to be white". Thats called...oh, what's its name...uh...oh yeah, White Pride.

I'm not proud to be anything because I simply do not see myself as "White". I'm just Me.

It's funny really, that the people with the most racist hangups are generally black, not white. And if you've got to use a term for either, that's what they should be. I actually AM from different places, so I don't respect Americans who claim to be from Africa when they have no connection to it whatsoever. Sure, I could say Im a "European American". But I don't. Because Im simply not a European. I really don't care. And people who grew up in New York City simply are not from Africa. I think the only reason this term ever got popularity is because white people are so mortally petrified that they'd be labeled as a racist, so they let black people call the shots. And some of those black people are abusing that. A lot.

Basically, I agree completely with everyone in this section who doesnt have a username. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.242.154 (talk) 07:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, it doesn't work like that. Black pride is not racist. It is a response to all the racism black people had to suffer through. White pride, however is; it is just a sanitized version of white supremacy. Since when do black peoplr "call the shots" as you claim. I suppose you have some point in commenting here? Yahel Guhan 07:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

I noticed that all six of the people in the picture were political activists. Do you think that is a good thing? Steve Dufour (talk) 12:01, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you suggesting that all African-Americans aren't political activists?!? Brooke was a politician, not an activist, but you raise a good point. I'm not sure whether this or Template talk:African American ethnicity is the appropriate forum for this discussion, but we should try to balance the photos. There has been a similar discussion at Template talk:Infobox Jew#Emma Lazarus v Rabbi Lau; that template has four photos: two women and two men; a rabbi, a political leader, a scientist, and a poet. We might want to consider the same concept: African-Americans from all fields, not just the political. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 21:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'd like to nominate Stevie Wonder. :-) Steve Dufour (talk) 03:51, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All black people in america are not african americans

Identity is everything. Without it one ceases to exit. It seems to be a popular thing now days to be called an african american, when not long ago, all of the other factions of the black race all over the globe didn't even want to be associated with the term african american, or negro. Now the the term is used loosely to describe any, and every black person that sets foot here in america, distorting and stripping us african americans of what little identity we do have. So, this is to set the record straight. I can't help but be passionate about this issue, my ancestors were "ENSLAVED" in "THIS" country. They fought and died in "THIS" country trying to protect, and preserve what little identity they had left after having most of it beat out of them. Thus trying to set up a system where our future generations would be proudly recognized with our own unique identity. "MY" ancestors fought for civil rights in this country, that other blacks from all across the globe come here to enjoy, without giving any respect or thanks. ie, west indies, africa, south america etc. All black people in america are not african americans. An african american is a person who's "FAMILY" ancestors were enslaved, and suffered through that slavery here in america. Not in jamaica, or trinidad, etc. The term african american comes from a long lineage of ugly muttated descriptions attributed to the slave and their ancestry here in america. We've come a long way From being known as coons, niggas, jiggaboos, monkeys, etc. Anything that one could think of that was bad or negative, that's what we were called in this country. My ancestors fought, fought, fought, fought, and shed their blood, and gave their lives, for the right to be called AFRICAN AMERICAN. That is why those of us who are african americans should always be passionately selfish when it comes to our identity, our culture, and traditions protecting and guarding it with our very lives,and never letting anyone, anywhere define, or defile it. Identity is everything, without it one don't exist. Therefore, I am proud to say, I am "AFRICAN AMERICAN". Who are you? James jr.24.47.233.26 (talk) 05:28, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I came to this article from the one on Barack Obama. Although he is certainly a black American, his identity as an African American is often debated on that article's talk page. A lot of people don't understand the points you are making. Steve Dufour (talk) 14:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let me educate all the idiots who don't know anything about the term. The term African American means a black American who is a descendant of African slaves that were brought to the United States of America on slave ships during the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. In other words, blacks who are descendants of American slavery, like me. It's like the terms Irish-American or Italian-American]]. It doesn't apply to any immigrant from an African country because the term African is not a nationality. Nationality refers to your country of birth, origin, or citizenship. Africa is a continent that's made up of over 50 countries. A person born in Kenya is Kenyan because Kenya is a country and Kenyan is a nationality. If the person emigrated to the USA, the person is Kenyan-American. Egypt to the USA: Egyptian-American. This is a term Afrocentric black Americans created. It's a way of recognizing our American nationality and patriotism and our African past and history (the history of all blacks in the Western Hemisphere began in West Africa). Fclass (talk) 02:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well its a stupid term and it should be purged. Once you change your nationality to American then you are American, where you came from is irrelevant and you should take no pride in something you had nothing to do with. Take pride i what you do (and your immediate family) - all this "we are special" really means "You are inferior" and perpetuates the hate between "races" (and I put it in quotation marks since there is no scientific basis for dividing humans into race, its an old way of supressing those who looked different http://www.understandingrace.org/) if Amerca is going to settle its problems they need to accept at their core, they are one people, not just a lot of strangers who happen to camp there for a while. --IceHunter (talk) 20:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So, IceHunter, you're one those morons that believe we're all the same? Well, we're not. Why do you think the U.S. is called a "melting pot?" It's because this country is diverse in many ways. I don't know if you're an American, and I don't care, but you have absolutely no right to tell people they shouldn't celebrate their cultures. In New York City (my hometown), we have a lot of ethnic parades: West Indian Day Parade, St. Patrick's Day Parade, Mexican-American Day Parade, Dominican Parade, German-American Day Parade, Columbus Day Parade, Pakistani Parade, Puerto Rican Day Parade, and others. Now, these people are not saying, "We don't want to be Americans." They're just celebrating their heritage and culture, and they have every right to do it, whether your closed-minded moronic ass likes it or not. They're proud to be Americans while at the same time proud of their heritage and culture. That is why all the people who say, "We're all the same," are dead wrong. The human species, not human race, are different in every way. If we were the same, planet Earth would be dull and boring. People like you need to embrace the fact that we are different. And the real reason racists like you exist is because racists don't accept things that are foreign to them. They look at so-called "minorities" (a term whites invented) and think they are superior to them because of who they are and where they come from. Racists look at diversity as a threat. If America is going to solve the hatred problem, some Americans are going to have to accept that the U.S. is a diverse, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural nation. There is no such thing as a real American culture because most of it came from other nations. As for African American, it's obvious you're too stupid to know what it means, so I am done with you. Go celebrate your stupidity and ignorance.Fclass (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Without the bellicosity, I'd like to agree with FClass. It upsets me endlessly when people call Barack Obama African-American. And the link to that senate webpage is no verification whatsoever that "most people consider Obama to be African-American". He is a black man. He is a Kenyan American. He is NOT African American any more than Tony Shalhoub is an Asian American or Paula Abdul is a South American American or Mike Meyers is a North American American. 193.129.64.154 (talk) 11:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree. I am sorry, but just because people are called black, doesn't take away their families' identity. I think that African-Americans are people who come here from Africa. Plus Asians are not called Asian-American like one other person said. The Japanese lost sooo much before they were treated just like the Africans were a long time ago. It's time to let go. I'm anything but racist, I grew up around every race under the sun. It's just that the term African-American bugs me. A lot of Africans are actually European too because a lot of Africa was occupied by the French and British. And why can't you be proud to say that you're black, you still get respect from people. It makes no difference to anyone else if people say black or African-American. so yeah. DLWDWFreek (talk) 04:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is not an open forum for general opinions about the concept "African American". This is a talk page for improving the article "African American". Please restrict your comments to those relevant to writing an encyclopedia article. --Lquilter (talk) 22:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • True, I agree that this conversation isn't particularly productive. The question we should be asking here is, does the article address and reflect the fact that not all black persons in the US are American, and that not all of them have a majority of African ancestry? It'd be like calling every white person on US soil "Caucasian British." Personally, I feel that in everyday situations, most people are smart enough to understand that exceptions and distinctions exist and apply, but as an objective publication, WP should address this issue. So please, let us come to an agreement, bearing in mind that this isn't a forum for debate about the appropriateness of the term, but for discourse about how the term should be represented in a neutral encyclopedia. --85.5.159.13 (talk) 12:44, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for recognizing this isn't a chat forum. As for the specifics on the use of the term, the article addresses the sourced, common usage of the term "African American". Naturally, we wikipedia editors aren't in the business of determining how people "should" use the term; that would be original research and non-neutral point of view, both of which are not appropriate in Wikipedia. However, if an editor wants to propose some draft language (supported by references) that could be inserted in the article to address a specific lack in the article, we could discuss whether it would be helpful. --Lquilter (talk) 22:26, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Title

I don't want to sound racist, because I'm white, but like the title, African Americans, refers to only people that come to America from Africa. Also Black American just sounds weird. We're like the only country that doesn't call people of African Background Black, I know, I've been to Europe, and they are greatly respected, as they are here.DLWDWFreek (talk) 03:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think we define the title fairly well. See African American#Who is African American?. I'm not sure quite what your objection is. Yahel Guhan 04:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yahel, DLWDWFFreek is an ignorant fool. You give people the knowledge and data about something, but they will keep ignorance as their guide. DLWDWFFreek is not a racist, he or she is just plain dumb. I am very proud to be black. I'm not ashamed of that. As the late James Brown(RIP) once said, "Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud!" However, I'm also proud to be an American of African ancestry. I explained the term's definition above where it says, "user talk:Fclass." I also explained nationality. Africa is a continent, not a country. African is not a nationality because a person's nationality refers to their COUNTRY OF BIRTH. I'm an American becaause I was born in the USA, as were past generations of my family. If I move to Canada, I would be an American-Canadian. Nigeria to the USA: Nigerian-American. Namibia to the USA: Namibian-American. Got it? Fclass (talk) 19:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse ME!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah I'm an ignorant fool. I just know a lot more than you probably, but anyway I have nothing against you personally, idk u, but anyway if you are proud to say you're black, then why do insist on people calling you African American? I just don't get it! And when you ,move to canada, you do not become Canadian- American, you are still American, just living in Canada. Oh yeah and people say they are African American, when they are not either from Africa or the definition you gave. And half the people on this page aren't. That's why I think that the page should be renamed or greatly refashioned.DLWDWFreek (talk) 05:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As the header at the top of this page says, This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the African American article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. If you have any specific suggestions for improving this article, please share them. Otherwise move along. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 05:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Malik Shabazz, but I want to respond to this dumbass. I don't know you, but I know stupidity and ignorance when I see it. And from the way you think, I think it's safe to say I'm a lot smarter and articulate than you. DLWDWFreek, you need a lesson in geography. Africa is a continent, just like Europe and North America. The continent of Africa is made up of 50+ countries with their own nationalities. Ghana=Ghanaian, Ethiopia=Ethiopian. I could go on, but I want to make this short. If I, an American, move to Canada, I would still be an American, but I would be Canadian because I'm applying Canadian citizenship. Duh!!! And black Americans(or African Americans) aren't descendants of American slavery? Somebody needs to educate you on American history. Why don't you do us a favor, and leave this operation to people who know what their talking about. I'm done with you. Fclass (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think both of you should seriously take a look at WP:NPA before commenting. To clarify for DLWDWFreek, there are people known as White Africans. These people are not African Americans, and never can be if they move to America and become American citizens. Yahel Guhan 06:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify for Yahel Guhan I'm not just some idiot who just got a computer and started using it.. I'm one of the top students in my US History class. I made an educated Italic textObservation not just some guess.DLWDWFreek (talk) 02:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I never said you were an idiot. Still, educated people can still make mistakes. Yahel Guhan 05:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well ur snotty. And don't even think about answering because I will not reply. DLWDWFreek (talk) 02:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

hyphenated African-American

The OED and M-W Unabridged, both online, and NYT spell African-American with a hyphen. Throughout Wikipedia, at least that which I have read, African-American is not hyphenated. Is this policy? I'm somewhat new to the subject of Wikipedia editorial policy. If this issue has already been discussed and decided upon would someone refer me to the policy pages (or whatever) that discusses and explains this. Thanks. Messier110 (talk) 10:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The correct usage would be to have it unhyphenated when it stands alone ("The doctor is (an) African American") and hyphenated when modifying another word or phrase ("An African-American doctor"). I have got the Oxford American Dictionary in front of me, which supports that view, and I would be surprised if the O.E.D. were different. Salopian (talk) 15:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

I always wondered why black people are the only race considered African Americans. I seems like it's a derogatory term because it seems like when it is said it's classifying all blacks in the country to slave roots. The American definiton even says that African Americans relate to the Sub-Saharan groups of Africans which isn't true because black people now come from all over the world. Also no other race seems to be put towards one specific area on a continent or even considered towards a continent. Whites are caucasain, Asains are Oriential, and so on and so forth. I feel the definition needs revising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.22.63 (talk) 03:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<Incivil comment removed. — Malik Shabazz [African American] applies to American blacks, not blacks in Haiti or Jamaica or any other country. The roots of black Americans is in American slavery. That's something that can't be denied. It's our history. Also, blacks in the Western Hemisphere are descendants of African slaves that were victims of the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. So yes, all black people are of African descent, just like all white people are of European descent. Oriental is a term for Chinese people, but it's considered to be offensive. Fclass (talk) 21:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please. No personal attacks! Also, keep in mind that this page is intended for discussing improvements to the African American article, and it is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 22:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a quarter Japanese and Oriental isn't offensive.DLWDWFreek (talk) 02:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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