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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Renamed user 12 (talk | contribs) at 23:08, 21 February 2008 (→Refinary is capitalized its part of a proper name of the "Chevron"—"R"efineary). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Template:Templatename —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomgaylove (talk • contribs) 15:54, 18 February 2008

Refinary is capitalized its part of a proper name of the "Chevron"—"R"efineary

Template:RFC errorTemplate:RFC error its not a Chevron refinary in Richmond its the Richmond Chevron Refinary, there's only one. its the name of the place. its JFK High School not JFK high school.CholgatalK! 03:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, please learn to spell if you're going to continue the conceit of editing an encyclopedia; it's refinery, not "refinary".
Second of all, it is not capitalized. It is not a part of the name of the facility; it is simply a refinery that happens to be owned and run by the Chevron Corp. (not ChevronTexaco, by the way; they dropped that name several years ago). +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
dude it has a name; that arguement is ludacrous.CholgatalK! 03:11, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever. As usual, you're arguing for something that's dead wrong. Learn how to write. +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
learn some manners. and its a proper noun, a name. its capitalized.CholgatalK! 03:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Refinery" is a proper noun??? +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:29, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

no it's not, but Chevron Richmond Refinary isCholgatalK! 03:38, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More

As usual, you are wrong, and I can prove it. Here's a sampling of (mostly) news articles that mention this very refinery (it's not as if they're hard to find or anything, as the facility is constantly causing problems of one kind or another):

  • A CBS 5 story: "A flare-up at Chevron's Richmond refinery on Monday may have released potentially toxic chemicals into the air ...".
  • An article from SF Gate: "... in view of ferryboat traffic and the Chevron refinery."
  • Another SF Gate story: "Chevron's Richmond refinery produces more than 225,000 barrels per day ..."
  • Another SF Gate story: "Contra Costa County officials are blaming glitches in the emergency alert system for a delay of more than an hour between the time a fire broke out at the Chevron refinery this morning ..."

Even Chevron's own press releases sometimes don't capitalize the name, like this one: "The Chevron Richmond refinery, which employs more than 1,450 employees and more than 100 contractors, is one of the largest refineries on the West Coast with a 240,000 barrel-per-day capacity."

So it should not be capitalized. Just because Chevron capitalizes it in (most of) their own press releases does not make it correct here. +ILike2BeAnonymous 07:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What matters is what Chevron calls it. An obscure miscapitalization is obviously a typographical error.Ah0000000ga (talk) 07:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC) it should be capitolized.Umiumitooti (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Words like sometimes, obviously point out that the lower case spelling is an anomaly. Furthermore, how some newspapers spell it is irrelevant to wikipedia conventions. What matters is how, Chevron spells it. Chevron almost always spells it in the upper case. It is a place name, a particular unique place, a name, a PROPER NOUN, and proper nouns are capitalized. Chevrons's own history page on the refinary are of particular importance, since such a page would make sure to detailedly spell it correctly. Here are various press releases and official documents regarding the facility.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
  1. ^ Chevron
  2. ^ Chevron
  3. ^ Chevron
  4. ^ About Chevron Richmond Refinary
  5. ^ Chevron
  6. ^ What We Do
  7. ^ Who We Are
  8. ^ Chevron Richmond Refinary History

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomgaylove (talk • contribs) 15:53, 18 February 2008

Break for editing

Hi. Just popping in from the Language Reference Desk. Someone here seems to think that we over there know all about capitalization, and some of us actually do. I hope I'm one of them. First off, it doesn't matter what anybody else does, including Chevron itself. Here at Wikipedia we have to go by the Manual of Style. The first line on the MoS page about capitalization says it all: "Wikipedia follows a conservative usage style for capitalization (unnecessary capitalization is avoided)." There is nothing on that page that justifies capitalizing "refinery". If you ask me, though, capitalization is the lesser issue with that sentence. "The Chevron Richmond refinery" is puzzling to the reader. It's not immediately apparent what Chevron we're talking about, or whether there isn't a "Chevron Richmond" we should have known about. If I came in cold to copyedit, I would change it to "Chevron Corporation's Richmond refinery is just east of the range." --Milkbreath (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised that I mostly disagree with Milkbreath on this. "Richmond Refinery" is clearly the name of this facility. Since this is a compound proper noun, both parts of the name should be capitalized. As Chevron owns the facility, they have the right to name it, and they have named it the Richmond Refinery. I agree with Milkbreath that "Chevron Richmond Refinery" is a bit ambiguous. A reader might assume that all three words are part of its name, when its name is "Richmond Refinery". Milkbreath's solution "the Chevron Corporation's Richmond refinery" is wordier than I would like and fails to capitalize both parts of the refinery's name. My suggested solution would be "Chevron's Richmond Refinery". First, most people know that Chevron is a corporation; second, nearly everyone would understand from the possessive that Chevron is the company that owns the Richmond Refinery. Marco polo (talk) 01:32, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
How about, Chevron Corporation's, "Chevron Richmond Refinery" facilities... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomgaylove (talk • contribs) 01:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think Marco polo has it right. After reading Chevron's website, it is clear that Chevron's refinery is named the "Richmond Refinery". The best wording is "Chevron's Richmond Refinery" when referring to it by name or "Chevron's refinery" or "the Chevron refinery" when context makes it clear what refinery is being discussed. Sbowers3 (talk) 01:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can't agree. Yet. The refinery is named for Port Richmond, where it was built. It is Chevron's refinery at Port Richmond—the Richmond refinery. Their own site does not capitalize consistently. They call it the "Richmond plant". They don't capitalize "refinery" when it stands alone, as we would for "college", for example, if we meant one in particular. The first building there was the "Brick Storehouse". I don't care if Mr. Chevron himself named it that, I'm not capitalizing "brick storehouse" just because he did. Corporations tend to capitalize everything to do with themselves for aggrandizement's sake. We are not required to do as they do except sometimes, like for brand names ("Kleenex", not "kleenex"). It's "Chevron's Richmond refinery", unless you can see what I can see, that "Chevron" is not immediately understandable to a reader who comes in with oil the last thing on his mind. (Aside to BGL: they call it "Chevron's Richmond Refinery" on the history page, so its name can't be "Chevron Richmond Refinery".) --Milkbreath (talk) 02:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In your link to "Their own site" every time the two words "Richmond Refinery" appear together they are both capitalized. When refinery is used alone it is not capitalized. When some other word is used, e.g. Richmond plant, the other word is lower case. Clearly, they regard "Richmond Refinery" as a proper name. (Ditto with Alameda Refinery.) In my home town, there is a store called, "The Store" - that is its official name. Would you not capitalize it? How about The Country Club? Sbowers3 (talk) 04:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It does not matter how Chevron (or, more precisely, whichever Chevron employee ended up doing it) capitalizes. This is an important point. It does not matter. They can get it wrong, and they did; the inconsistencies on their history page demonstrate that they didn't know or care about the rules and conventions governing capitalization. The fact that they refer to a "Richmond plant" is not evidence that "Richmond Refinery" is right, it is evidence that "Richmond" is to be construed attributively, like "Baltimore" in "their Baltimore office" (note the lowercase "o" in "office"). You say "when refinery is used alone it is not capitalized" as if that goes to prove that "refinery" is a proper noun in the phrase in question, when actually it could well be capitalized in that case. (If you want to learn more about the art of editing, a good start would be to read The Chicago Manual of Style cover to cover.) If the name of a store is "The Store", I would capitalize "store" whenever I was referring to that one (but not the "the", usually): "Of the many stores along the strip, "The Store" is the oldest. The history of this store is an interesting one. It is said that the Store got its name when the space it now occupies was converted from a bank to a store. ...." Leave this to people who both know and care. It's only important to us pathetic geeky language nerds, anyway. Throw us a bone. --Milkbreath (talk) 11:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My hometown has (had?) a gay bar named The Bar, but its existence doesn't impel me to capitalize bar in general. – Here, since I've never heard of anyone refining Richmond, I'd say something like Chevron Corporation has a major oil refinery nearby; few people outside the corporation have any reason to know or care if the refinery has a formal name, so insisting on it would be like insisting on "the Officer Fred Bloggs Memorial Viaduct" versus "the 37th Avenue overpass". —Tamfang (talk) 05:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds reasonable to me; it's not as if it's Chevron's only refinery, either, so it certainly doesn't merit the status of appearing to be The One, The Only Chevron Refinery. Let's make the change you suggested. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 05:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That wording, Chevron Corporation has a major oil refinery nearby, is a great way to deflate the argument. Get rid of the phrase, "Richmond [R]efinery" and there's no longer any reason to argue about capitalization. In any event, I don't want to argue the point. I don't feel that strongly, and I'm far from an expert on writing style, so I will depart hoping the problem is solved and will unwatch this page. Sbowers3 (talk) 12:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That wont make sense, we can say Sara lives near Washington High School, the Chevron Corporation has a major refinery nearby, Great Mall Shopping Center, ACME Corporation headquarters, and city hall. We need to use the place's name for the sentence in question.Boomgaylove (talk) 23:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actual sentance

  • The ridge is covered with chaparral and lies between San Pablo Bay to the west and north, and Castro Cove to the east the Chevron Richmond r/Refinery is just east of the range.

That's the sentance in question, obviously

  • The ridge is covered with chaparral and lies between San Pablo Bay to the west and north, and Castro Cove to the east Chevron Corporation has a major oil refinery nearby is just east of the range.

wont work. nor would.

  • The ridge is covered with chaparral and lies between San Pablo Bay to the west and north, and Castro Cove to the east of the range a major Chevron Corporation oil refinery.

that doesn't make sense to me.Boomgaylove (talk) 23:08, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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