Talk:Juan Pablo Duarte

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During the independecy, Duarte was exiled from the country by the Haitian government. Pedro Santana Gained the presidency due to his merits in battle. During this firs Dominican Government, an economical and social slump called referenced later by historians as "La España Boba" led Santana to annex the country once again to Spain, only to be restaured by Gregorio Luperon on August 16, 1863.

Original research

This article contains claims that are not backed by any source (mostly because they are not true). For the moment, as I don't have more time, I will post an "original research" or "unverified claims" to the article if no one provides for a correction in a reasonable amount of time. Dominican 23:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of vandalism

I removed the vandalism added. Dominican 23:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page got lot miss information

this page need major work, i put back to a state that seem more accurate...but this article need more work on it. Avfnx 23:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not a copyright violation

The page given as a source for a copyright violation [1] states: "NOTE: The information regarding Dominican Republic on this page is re-published from The Library of Congress Country Studies. No claims are made regarding the accuracy of Dominican Republic HAITI AND SANTO DOMINGO information contained here. All suggestions for corrections of any errors about Dominican Republic HAITI AND SANTO DOMINGO should be addressed to the Library of Congress." Country Studies from The Library of Congress are in the public domain. VirtualDelight 21:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Attempt to censor

There apparently seems to be an attempt to censor this article on a regular basis by a few editors. The facts are that there is some controversy surrounding Juan Pablo Duarte's legacy and we have an obligation to at least include this information especially if there are numerous articles from reputible news organizations that have reported on Taina Mirabal's film "Padres de Racismo" about Juan Pablo Duarte. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.167.31 (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a Encyclopedia right or a rumor mill...facts or fairly tales, it about facts and there no facts he was racist. The Haitians were, they didn't let white own land, killed off the mulatto population in there country...those are facts. 24.190.180.244 (talk) 05:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Claims for Juan Pablo Duarte's racism

An unregistered user has been reediting the article to denounce a supposedly unknown aspect of Duarte's life. These claims have been stated even on other articles, like the one for the Dominican Republic and even on xenophobia.

This information has consistently been removed because it is not backed by reliable sources. I will flesh out the sources given for that edit:

1. Padre De Racismo: This is a newspaper article about the controversy raised because flyers with Duarte's portrait and a message that said "Padre del Racismo" were distributed in New York City; as well as some statements made by the producers of the film. Nowhere in the article there is something that backs the racists claims. This looks like someone is trying to promote this specific news.

2. Taína Mirabal: Again, another newspaper article that does not support the point of view given. They are just reproducing Mirabal's interview. This is one person's opinion. I mean, she has the right to say whatever she wants about whoever she wants, but just because it appears in a minor online periodical publication, that doesn't make it a reliable source.

3. Los dominicanos han sido engañados: For the third time, this source is pretty much the same article, but written by a different reporter. The situation is the same, they are just repeating Mirabal's interview.

Finally, I would like to add that this information should not be included in the main article because it is only the opinion of Taína Mirabal (and maybe two wikipedia editors). Mirabal in itself is not a reputable historian. Her only work seems to be this documentary. She hasn't, so far and to the best of my knowledge, written any books, journal papers or taught history in school at any level. She doesn't even have a blog! Writing an article based on a film is like trying to re-write the history of the United States after seeing The Birth of a Nation.

Her work also seems to be stagnant. These articles first appeared on August 2007. After that, neither Mirabal or her film have gotten any reviews. Actually, if you google "Taina Mirabal", "Padre de Racismo" or "Fathers of Racism", it only links to the above mentioned articles and to wikipedia!

I understand that there might be people who don't agree with the way the history about Duarte is written, but if you want it to be on a wikipedia article, then create one that is called Controversy about Juan Pablo Duarte, or something like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominican (talk • contribs) 17:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I forgot to sign. Dominican (talk) 17:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

we have a obligation to report

The fact is that this controversy is taking place and there has been press on it, we have an obligaton to include it. To supress this information is censorship. Taina Mirabal has gotten press and the movie has been reported on, that is a fact. She has made assertions about Duartes life and is releasing a movie about him. we have to include that in this article because it is going on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.167.45 (talk) 22:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why cause one person make something up we should pay mind to them...If she says the world is flat, the it is...in no history book does it says or even implies this, it not censorship...this is place for facts not alleges that what the news is for AvFnx (talk) 06:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We have no responsibility to include fringe theories in an article at all. If we do include them, they must not be written as if they were fact, but clearly explained as an opinion. And, of course, controversial views such as this theory need independant sources before being listed. Edward321 (talk) 04:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hatred to us, dominicans

To the people that are constantly posting lies regarding one of our main symbols, please stop it.

If we, as Dominican have given you reasons to feel envy for us, remember that envy is not cause by the person or entity that the envy is feel for, but the person or people that feels the envy. So if you feel envy and because of this, hatred for us, that, as stated before, is not our fault, it is actually my dear, yours.

If you want to base the biography of one of the main symbols of our history in something that one person and her imagination created, go ahead, lie to your neighbour, to your children, but it is vandalism and disrespect when you want to put this type of unreliable information in a public forum such as this one, so that the world think that your lies are actually true.

It is not our fault that you people never got to be independent, it is not our fault that you envy us so much, it is not our fault that you have nothing better to do than try to defame us, so please I ask you, look for something productive to do with your live instead of disrespecting us. That only shows how low of a dreg you people are.

As to me, I am really proud of having been born and raised in such a beautiful land with such beautiful people. Son of black woman and 20% black - 80% white man. I'm equally proud of being of African and Spanish ascendency. In a country in which, contrary to yours, most of our population is mix. I live in the least racist country in the Caribbean and you are not able to argue such thing if you have never been to the Dominican Republic and lived there.

As to Haiti, our problems with Haiti has nothing to do with their skin, but it is a social problem. Haiti and Dominican Republic are countries of totally different cultures and the fact that we got our independence when we liberated from Haiti has more to that social stress between our nation than anything else. It is also fun the fact that you never mention the that one of our "Founding Fathers", Francisco Del Rosario Sánchez, is as well as me, a mix from a black woman and a white man, and you forget to mention the fact that Juan Pablo Duarte, which is the person you are calling racist, knew this other person very well. Too many black skin important people in our history, for a country you dare to call racist. With our actual president being mix as well.

En conclusión, encuentren oficio sin vergüenzas, más que estar difamando nuestros símbolos patrios. El odio y la envidia que ustedes sienten por nosotros no lleva a nada, más que hacerlos lo que ustedes son, los infelices que revisan todos los días a ver si un buen dominicano se ha preocupado por actualizar la información correcta y quitar las mentiras que ustedes, como sin vergüenzas y vagos que son se molestan en publicar a diario.

But don't worry, I'm a really happy and loyal dominican person and I'll be coming here every single day to check if you have post your lies, so that I can change it back to the truth, because as Juan Pablo Duarte said, taking it from the bible “you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”(Jn.8:32). (talk)

Not Hatred, Just facts

Reveling the true nature of Juan Pablo Duarte's motivations for a separte territory, does not equal hatred toward any group of people. Duarte was an individual who should be held responsible for what he has done. This is in no way defamation or slander nor lies; these are true facts. They may not push a nationalist agenda, but it still does not make them false at all. This is definatly not a personal thing. We have the responsiblity to tell the truth, even if we were born in the country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.112.232 (talk) 01:23, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probe it!

Ok, lets suppose that what you're saying is actually right. First of, why do you do not identify yourself? It is incredible what an IP can do, I mean, I already know you are Puerto Rican, I also think you are in NY, but I haven't confirm that yet, but trust me, you do not want me to. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Puerto Ricans, I have thousands of Puerto Rican friends that will tell you so. I have a problem against you! and it is only a coincidence that I found out you're PR.

Second, besides the fact that you are not even able to identify yourself, where do you get this facts from? from an interview done to ONE person? I don't know in which world do you live or how ignorant you are in fact, but one person statement doesn't make it true unless you can prove it with more than words, which is something you haven't been able to do, because all this Taina woman did was say something that she haven't back up with any facts that demonstrate such thing beyond her words. And in regard with the U.N. article. Dominicans do not have a general problem with people of black skin, because most of us are black in a way. Also as far as my knowledge goes, you, Puertoricans and Cubans have a way higher racist rate than what we do, because you're not as mix as we are. Being racist towards black skin is being racist to ourselves, because as I said most of us are black. The thing with the UN is that it is receiving pressure from the US, Canada and France, because those countries want Dominican Rep and Haiti to become one country, so that we have to deal with the economical problems in Haiti and not them.

To me, you're no more than someone who wants to make us look like racist to the world because you feel envy towards for some reason. Also you are making other Puerto Ricans (including my friends) look bad, because people will actually think that they are as stupid as you are and that Puerto Ricans actually hate us, which I know is not true.

If you bring REAL probe to back up your argument, I'm going to be the first one to support you, but if you keep posting lies on one of MY country greatest symbol I'll be the first one to show you the consequences of your actions. Not a treat, just a little advice and notice, because if you do not have facts that is disrespect and you're not only disrespecting me but other 5 millions people that actually care and the memory of someone greater than you'll ever imagine to be.

By the way, my name is Alexander "and I approve this message".(talk)