Talk:No More Heroes (video game)

Gameplay

Where does this information come from? Especially the stuff about the part time jobs to earn money. What is a stamper?

Other protagonists in other games

What is the point of this section?

Movie lisence?

I heard somewhere that this game was based, perhaps loosely, on the film Ichi the Killer. It may have just been a rumour though. Any one hear of this? Clockwork Apricot 19:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard anything about it, but since Ichi the Killer is a violent yakuza film, and this game is going to be less violent than Killer 7, and supposidly about superheroes, I doubt it. JQF 23:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh, "supposed about hitmen," you mean. (Momus 21:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC))

The game won't be less violent than Killer7, it'll be more violent than Manhunt 2 as SUDA 51 has stated in interviews. R-Tiztik 13:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Helter Skelter

Why is he announced as a character if he just ends up getting his head cut off in the trailer? Lordofchaosiori 23:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

He's SUDA "motherfucker" 51. He can do what he wants. Dan Smith died at least 3 times in the Killer 7 story, so I don't see why

this guy couldn't get up after being decapitated once. 66.17.119.227 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

In the newer, slightly changed trailer, Helter Skelter's head stays attached to his body.82.10.188.195 22:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Travis

Would Travis Touchdown be the same Travis from killer7? Kirbysuperstar 13:55, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

That would be interesting, but we can only speculate at this point. NighTrekr 08:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

He's got a different last name, so I'm assuming no.128.226.230.89 03:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The two Travis's don't even look alike either. If Travis Touchdown was based on Travis from Killer7 before he was killed by Harman Smith and turned to a remnant psyche, then maybe. But Travis Bell was murdered by Harman in 1969 which would set the technology and ethics of the game too far back for what we've seen so far, although SUDA 51 could do it if that's what he intended. But all of this probably isn't the case because the game isn't a sequel or spin-off of Killer7, the two characters don't resemble each other, and they don't have the same names (Killer7: Travis Bell, No More Heroes: Travis Touchdown). R-Tiztik 14:05, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

No, Suda said they are different people.

Plot section

The current plot section is pure speculation, so I've removed it. NighTrekr 08:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you justify the greastest game in this generation bit? I havent heard of this game until a week ago.

It wasn't encyclopedic so I removed it. NighTrekr 10:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Image

I appreciate that someone took the time to crop the current image from the trailer (and whoever did that did a great job), but Helter Skelter apparently bites it very early on in the game. Wouldn't an image of Travis be more appropriate? NighTrekr 19:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

concept and gameplay vs trailers

both sections cover similar material, it could be considered redundant. should trailers be edited down or eliminated and integrated into c&g, since the info is basically coming from the trailers? Tehw1k1 16:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This should be a disambiguation page or the Stranglers album

There was no good reason to move the Stranglers album away from its original location. The Strangler's album is a historically significant album that has stood the test of time. This is a unreleased computer game. The original page was moved without any discussion on that page which is against Wikipedia policy. If anything there should be a disambiguation page. 221.133.86.108 09:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the very first entry to the page I see that the original Strangler's Album was simply moved to make way for this page.

You do not simply move an established page to make way for something that interests you (i.e. your POV) without considering Wikipedia policy

The Stranglers album has been on Wikipedia for years and it is against Wikipedia policy to move established articles without warning or discussion. I will reverting back to the original unless someone can give me a good reason that the Stranglers album was moved in the first place contrary to Wikipedia policy in the next few days. (And the 'most people expect the game' is no reason at all unless you have some kind of evidence as well as being most likely untrue.) An unpublished game does not displace a significant album that's been around for 30 years.

Macgruder 06:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow you guys come on way too strong. It's not like the album was moved to make way for any video game. This game is highly anticipated among SUDA 51's always incredible works. Following the game's release I can assure everyone that we'll be looking at two historically significant works titled No More Heroes (I don't have to assure nobody, after all, when has SUDA 51 fucked up?). But I can respect the fact that you are basically right. The game hasn't been released so there's no physical proof that it is significant enough to receive the main article title (sans the (video game) placeholder) or that it will be significant at all. It probably will be, like most of SUDA 51's other works, but there's no physically existing evidence as of yet, whereas the significance of the Strangler's No More Heroes record has been known for years, decades. Anyways, I'm going to move this page to No More Heroes (video game) and create a disambiguation page, and we'll see how that works out. R-Tiztik 07:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for your reply.

NPOV is a non-negotiable rule on Wikipedia.

'SUDA 51's always incredible works' --> POV

'It's not like the album was moved to make way for any video game'--> POV

'we'll be looking at two historically significant works titled No More Heroes'-->POV

No More Heroes (the album) is already historically significant, and it already existed on the page. You should move it back to how it was because Wikipedia policy states that a page should basically not be moved because you break previous links etc. Years of links to the album from outside Wikipedia now lead to the wrong page. So the original move shouldn't have happened.

If in 2 - 5 years or so, No More Heroes (the game) is historically significant/extremely popular we can perhaps look at the question again and decide on whether we need a disambiguation page.

Wikipedia policy is not there for just any reason - it exists and has been formulated by hundreds of users so that Wikipedia works the best for everyone.

It's not about 'coming on strong'. It's about keeping Wikipedia the best it can be, and breaking policy because something to you is 'incredible' or 'will assuredly be significant' etc unfortunately is not a reason to change things.

Cheers Macgruder 10:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Well I didn't move the article to the main No More Heroes heading if that's what you think; not too sure there. But yeah I suppose many of my points were point-of-view statements, but with what SUDA 51 has presented the world in his video game over the years, this is what we can reasonably assume. But regardless of unsourced and therefore speculative point-of-views, it is true that evidence of the album's significance is common knowledge (to those aware of it). Anyways last night I made the page moves and disambiguations I alluded to in my previous post and we'll see how this works. R-Tiztik 22:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NoMoreHeroesLogo.png

Image:NoMoreHeroesLogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Cover art

The game won't be out in North America or Europe for months, so can anyone track down an image of the Japan version's boxart to feature in the article until then (or upload it if you have the Japan version of the game)? Be weary though, I've found there's a number of fakes. Vixen Windstorm (talk) 16:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Blood in US Version only?

Seems that the European version will be the same as the Japanese version - also censored. See http://wii.ign.com/articles/840/840443p1.html?RSSwhen2007-12-10_021500&RSSid=840443. This should be fixed on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.118.195 (talk) 14:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Reception

Info in the Reception section does not include trivial matters as a lack of attendance at a game promotion. Such info is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with how the game plays or whether or not it scores well among reviewers. The source for this info is more of a blog or forum than a true entertainment site anyway, and does not supply an in-depth review of the game; thus it is not needed in the article. Comandante42 (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Reception doesn't just refer to how a game scores amongst reviewers. Movies, books, and video games can be critics' darlings and complete commercial failures. Hopefully, that will not turn out to be the case for NMH. However, the lack of attendance at its launch is important in that it is indicative of the kind of chilly reception it's currently receiving in Japan (it's sitting at 38^th place in sales), which in turn is important information on how a game is received. And if I can help it, it will provide a great contrast to the booming sales it is going to receive in North America. (Additionally, how can launch attendance and public reception not be important when each of the consoles has an entire page dedicated to a play-by-play of their respective launches?) clicketyclick_yaketyyak 06:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

The sales figures of a game are rarely if ever included in articles, and I have yet to see an article that includes details about a poorly attended (or well attended) launch event. Such info is basically trivia, which has no importance in articles here. The Reception section is reserved for reviews and scores of the game, so that a reader of the article can judge the game by its quality rather than how much it sold. Good games can have terrible sales and bad games can be sold out in a matter of days. Quality, not quantity, is key. Comandante42 (talk) 21:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Sales figures are frequently included in game articles. Please see the following featured articles that are just a few examples:

• Chrono Trigger

• Devil May Cry 2

• Final Fantasy IV

• Half-Life 2 Etc.

Note that the featured article Halo 2 details sales at its launch party. I have not attempted to look for others, but there may be more out there. I assume that the reason why launch party sales are typically not included is because they are not reported. Only when games are massive hits (like Halo 2) or massive failures (like No More Heroes) at their launch are sales reported widely.

Wikipedia is not a buying guide. The article is not here to allow readers to judge whether it would be a good idea to purchase the game. The article is meant to give an overview of all relevant information about an item, including the things that would be of general interest. As trivia is not of general interest, it is not included. However, sales figures are relevant and of great interest, to consumers, publishers, developers, trend analysts, governments, and perhaps even historians.

Additionally, please do not revert my edit inserting sales figures from a Japanese site. You may not be able to read it but I can. And if you were to run it through a translator, I bet you could too. If you hadn't noticed, there is already a citation in the article to a Japanese site (the staff listing.) It is perfectly acceptable to cite foreign-language sources. That is why, in the reference template, there is the parameter for "language". As you can see in citation #10, the language of the page is put in brackets in grey font after the link to indicate that it is a foreign-language source. Surely the language parameter's inclusion in the citation template demonstrates that foreign-language sources are allowed. clicketyclick_yaketyyak 22:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know about the policy regarding language in sources, and I already know of sales figures in other articles despite their rarity, but you haven't explained away the use of Kotaku.com as a source for the rest of it. The site is a blog and the info provided isn't sales info or a review. Its just a detail about an unsuccessful launch event at a store, and has almost no value to the article. Yes, articles about games like Halo detail launch events, but not about a specific event that happened at one store (by the way, sorry if you thought I referred to all launch events in general; I meant specific events like this). It isn't explained how well the game did at other stores at launch, if similar events were even held, etc. Its like saying a Best Buy in a particular city had a party for the release of a game, or that no one came to a book signing at a Barnes and Noble for the book of some author. The story is extremely trivial. Sales figures (since they are available) are a better illustration than the story of the success of the game. Comandante42 (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's hardly rare. It seems almost every featured I click on gives sales figures. I cannot, however, speak for B-class or Start class articles. If you have an issue with Kotaku as a source, this can be easily swapped out for another source as many different sites reported it. It is sales info however. Just as the Halo 2 article lists how much money was spent at its launch, Kotaku (or another, if you take issue with Kotaku) report exactly how much money was spent at NMH's launch: $0. Or rather, one copy was purchased (at least in the first 20 minutes.) If it is notable when a game sells many copies at launch, the inverse should also be true. Success and failure are equally noteworthy and serve to give the reader a bigger picture of the game's impact. As for why the sales for this one store are reported: this is where the launch party was held, similar to how launch parties were held in specific places for other games and consoles, and the only place where Suda 51 and Wada were present. It's noteworthy that no one showed up for the launch party. The bias you mention (i.e. what about sales at other stores?) is, I think, adequately dealt with by then mentioning its first-day sales. The meagre first-day sales reflect the (puzzling) lack of interest Japan has for the game, which is perfectly illustrated by its unattended launch event.clicketyclick_yaketyyak 23:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm still not convinced that the info is necessary. It may be because I have relatively limited knowledge of how the vast majority of Wikipedia articles are formatted (so many articles are missing info or have too much, there is no outright template for article formation). The story just seems so out of place and insignificant compared to what I've in other articles. Since everyone disagrees, though, I suppose I have no choice but to wash my hands of the matter and accept consensus. Comandante42 (talk) 23:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Release date

It's not an opinion that IGN/GS summary pages are frequently wrong. It is an observable fact that goes to the summary pages' reliability (they do not have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy as far as the summary pages are concerned.) Additionally, the date is not verifiable as Ubisoft's site does not even have a page on NMH and there have been no press releases announcing the date. It appears that IGN made up the date out of thin air.

We've had constant problems over at The Orange Box thanks to GS/IGN not updating their game summary pages; the European release date was moved up (from the 14^th to the 11^th) but neither of their game summary pages reflect that — even though you can find the press release confirming the change on GS's site!

No site's summary page (nor Amazon or any retailer) is very reliable for release date information. It comes down to this: if they have it right and you know that because the company announced it, then you should be citing the company's statement. And if you have no clue if they've got it right because the companies involved didn't announce anything then where the hell did they get the date from anyway? clicketyclick_yaketyyak 23:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. In all of the times I have used IGN, the site has never given me any false info, and was always right about the release dates. Therefore discounting IGN as a source is an opinion; we both have different experiences with IGN, and we cannot prove either side of the argument because we are both biased and lack concrete evidence of accuracy/inaccuracy (although if we automatically distrust all sites like IGN, then we end up with little to add to video game articles). Since I dislike extended arguments over trivial matters, however, I'll remove the info myself. On a side note, I wasn't aware that citing release dates was ever necessary, but I guess unreleased video games are an exception. Comandante42 (talk) 00:39, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying that IGN (and GS) as a whole are not trustworthy. Only that their summary pages are unreliable. Taking the example of GS, I find that the article they have on the press release of the release date is reliable, but its summary page listing the (incorrect) release date (still to date!) is not. The difference is that, while IGN/GS's reporting is reliable, their dedication to updating games' summary pages is not. No matter how many times you have found IGN/GS to be accurate in listing release dates, that they have gotten them incorrect (and still haven't corrected them to this day) is enough to disqualify them as having a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy on their game summary pages (again, not their articles.)

Release dates don't appear to be cited on a lot of articles, but in accordance with WP:VERIFY, if a release date is likely to be challenged (i.e. unreleased game or a game that changed its release date multiple times, causing confusion), it must be cited with a reliable source. clicketyclick_yaketyyak 18:02, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

The game was never called "HERO'S"

I've NEVER EVER seen anyone but IGN call the game that, I did a Google search (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22suda+51%22+%22HERO%27S%22+-%22ign%22&btnG=Search) for any mention to "HERO'S" that didn't also mention IGN, I saw absolutely no results other than misspellings of "No More Heroes" or referring to a "hero" in a Suda 51 game.

Someone needs to come up with better proof than "IGN said so" if that false piece of information should stay.

71.192.187.99 (talk) 17:32, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

One of the earlier trailers, which should be floating around somewhere on the internet, clearly calls the game "Heroes." If you have trouble finding it, let me know.

Impala63 (talk) 12:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know that, but the article used to say the game used to be called HERO'S in addition to Heroes I edited it out, but someone edited it back in because I had no proof, since I couldn't say everything I wanted to in the edit summary when I edited it back out I made this topic on the discussion page. 71.192.187.99 (talk) 21:49, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I recall one of the issues of Nintendo Power had explained the title was changed from something to No More Heroes. But I thought I recalled it was More Heroes or something kinda positive sounding. However it is too bothersome to dig through previous issues to find a single line among many pages. I'll leave that to someone else (as it probably has already been done elsewhere on the internet). (It was most likely the issue with the lengthy interview, but I don't even recall which held that.) --67.165.251.114 (talk) 21:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It was called Heroes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.49.5 (talk) 16:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC) The game includes the first trailer released. In the trailer itself, the game is called "Heroes."--75.92.186.211 (talk) 22:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Final cover?

A different version of the cover appears on the Ubisoft online store. [1] It looks like its the final cover to me, but we should probably wait for confirmation before changing the article.Tehw1k1 (talk) 10:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's the URL:

http://ushop.ubi.com/shop/browse/popupProductDetails.jsp?productId=prod80159 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.252.238.191 (talk) 16:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Suda's comments regarding 3rd party on the Wii misinterpreted?

Suda says he is concerned about how his comments regarding the success of 3rd party games on the Wii have been misinterpreted. The article here seems to be spreading this alleged misinterpretation, so you guys might want to do something about it.

I can't link straight to it, but go to this site, select English, and then "What's New?". It's the top entry.

http://www.grasshopper.co.jp/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.234.5.138 (talk) 14:24, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

beam katana

why is the 'beam katana' link on the page go to a page about lightsabers? they're completely different! Techo (talk) 16:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

GameInformer: What weapons will Travis have at his disposal?

Suda 51: The light saber and only the light saber.

GameInformer: Huh. Well you probably can’t call it a light saber. (laughs)

Suda 51: Beam Katana. (laughs)

GameInformer: Yeah, George Lucas won’t mind Beam Katana. (laughs)

Suda 51: Maybe LucasArts cannot look at it and maybe people can be quiet about it. (laughs)

(-; clicketyclick_yaketyyak 16:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thats what is inspired by buts its not a lightsaber. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.124.72.140 (talk) 20:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Canadian release date?

Why is the Canadian release date different from the US one? is there any type of valid source which explains this? I find it odd that the American release date is different from the Canadian one. AS Artimour (talk) 16:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Canadian release dates are always different than the U.S. ones, except for big titles such as zelda, mario, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander Vince (talk • contribs) 07:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this is in order to comply to the laws in the province of Quebec... The instruction booklet and the cover need to be bilingual. Also, maybe it is just because they don't have enough copy... I pre-ordered my game and ebgames gave me a date, though I don't remember. [BOWi] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.208.22.129 (talk) 19:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yup, I think it's the damn french. Can't they just learn to speak English like everyone else in the world? clicketyclick_yaketyyak 16:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Lol yeah, the back of my copy of Metroid Prime 3: Corruption is so cluttered because of everything having to be repeated in French. I liked the packaging of Tales of Symphonia because they gave you a front/back cover that was in English and another that was in French; it was a great solution lol. I wish other games could be like that. Vixen Windstorm (talk) 19:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation : Somebody said to me that Ubisoft made a bilingual version, that's why it is not the same distribution process. I'm going to be able to play NMH in my mother tongue, yeah! Any problem with that, Clicketyclick? Sure, I prefer to play in the original version, but... english is not the original version either... ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.208.22.129 (talk) 02:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I doubt the game itself will be bilingual, just the packaging and manual. I do agree about the cluttering though. Although, more and more games I buy have two inserst which make it much easier. I just throw out the French one and keep the English stuff. Anyway, where's the source on the February 7 release date? Remember that stores aren't considered official, is there an official Ubisoft date set? -- 132.203.54.47 (talk) 01:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Source: From Cedric Orvoine, PR for Ubisoft in Canada (French) (cedric.orvoine@ubisoft.com): "Jeudi le 7." [Meaning Thursday, February 7th.] 132.208.22.129 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.208.22.218 (talk) 17:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Character Page

I think there should be an article for the characters in this game. I hope I'm not alone when I say that the characters in this game are definitely interesting/eccentric enough to warrant a seperate article. The character links next to the voice actors merely redirect to the games' article. Tonku 20:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Spoilers in Plot section

Unless I'm mistaken, and I very well could be, Jeane's role in the game is meant to be a plot twist revealed near the end, making her description in the Plot section of the article a spoiler. Would marking it as such or simply mentioning she was Travis' former lover before they parted ways, as stated in the instruction manual, rather than completely expounding on her role be a better option? Jukt (talk) 13:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but according to WP:SPOIL, information should not be deleted because it spoils the ending. Billscottbob (talk) 22:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Quotes?

I believe that this game is humorous enough to deserve a quotes page... Does anyone else think this should happen? T3H_CH0Z3N_0N3 (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

See WikiQuote. Before creating such a page on WikiQuote, though, please read their guidelines for it since I am not familiar with that project. At any rate, it is definitely not appropriate here. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Change the beam katana link

The beam katana links to lightsaber, which is complete garbage. They are 2 completley diffrent weapons and any relation is influential at best. 69.121.179.87 (talk) 00:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

pop-culture references

i feel this should be added as it is very important to the article but, its nothing big: heavily, towards the end of the game, there are countless references to starwars , dark star saying he is travis's father, concept art revealing the black riders as T.I.E riders , and the ending credits bare a resemblence to starwars credits in the music, font style and the starscape in the backround.

P.S. If you search around, there is a sign that bears a striking resemblence to the sex pistols never mind the bolocks cd cover.