Talk:Kesen dialect

Constructed

This "language" should be listed as a constructed language. Azalea pomp (talk) 21:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, i'm not sure that it should be classified as constructed. I know very little about the Japanese language, and nothing about its dialects, but if it's just a codification of a dialect, then i don't think that it is a constructed language.

What looks strange, though, is that that Harutsugu Yamaura guy proposed a modified writing, and that nobody except himself uses it. This makes it look a lot like İQTElif, IPA2 and Siberian (a weird project in which i naively took a part at some stage.)

Looks like all the sources here are by Harutsugu Yamaura. It would be nice if anyone with knowledge of Japanese could check it. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think this language is not a constructed language. Harutsugu Yamaura followed and refered the past studies of Kikusaburo Kon'no (金野菊三郎), a linguist and a local historian. Harutsugu Yamaura only decided how to romanize. --60.33.33.48 (talk) 14:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Number of speakers

There's a contradiction here - who counted this number of speakers? Do those "74,000" speakers know that they speak "Kesen language" or is it just a statement by Yamaura Harutsugu that nobody else verified? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notability and Original research discussion

Copying from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan

Can anyone please check the article Kesen language?

All the sources there are based on publications by one author without any peer review, which is quite problematic for articles about dialects. Maybe somebody who knows Japanese can assess it better. I saw that the article exists in Japanese and Korean Wikipedias, and there has been discussions about it there, but there was almost zero discussion here in en.wiki. Any help would be appreciated. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:48, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unless I'm missing something here, this seems like a bunch of garbage to me ... some guy doesn't like the fact that his way of speaking is labeled a dialect, so he calls it a language and this becomes newsworthy? He's not even a linguist. I don't like the idea of Wikipedia perpetuating original research ... just because some nut publishes a book, that doesn't make it legitimate. If there was already an article on the Kesen dialect, I'd suggest merging a little bit of the content as a kind of footnote ... but no such article exists. I'm not sure if it should be deleted though, it does have ~6000 Google hits. Maybe moving this article to Kesen dialect would be the best solution? CES (talk) 15:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As i said above, at first it seemed to me a lot like İQTElif, IPA2 and Siberian - a bunch of original research articles, all of which are now deleted. The problem is that i have some minimal understanding in the languages related to those deleted articles (Tatar, Persian, Russian respectively), so i could make up my mind about them myself, but Japanese is totally foreign to me.

I almost nominated this article for AfD, but then i saw the two websites that are listed at the "External links" section. I can't understand a single word there, but the photographs appear rather respectable, so i thought that i'll ask someone who knows Japanese for a more educated opinion. Besides, there are corresponding articles in Japanese and Korean, and there was some discussion about them at their respective talk pages.

If there are sources that show that these books were at least reviewed by some third party, then i guess that this articles can stay, and i don't personally care whether it is called a "language" or a "dialect". But if this just a codification of a dialect that is used by nobody else except the author of those books, then this article should be deleted and not renamed, and similar steps should be taken in the Japanese and Korean Wikipedias, too.

Thanks for any help! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 19:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The two websites are a bio of Yamaura and a page about the out-of-print Kesen dictionary published by Yamaura. All the "further reading" is by Yamaura. I see no evidence that this is not just the work of one guy trying to legitimize his dialect of Japanese as a distinct language. CES (talk) 02:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]