Talk:Earth Day

An event in this article is a April 22 selected anniversary

Earth Flag

The "earth flag" seems to be much more in use as a symbol, see http://www.loe.org/archives/970418.htm#feature4 --Kurt Jansson 21:26 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

Two Earth Days

The article text as it stands does not really say that there are two different Earth Days. Although it discusses the UN observance, it is added as a paragraph at the bottom of a page discussing the US event. Would it be possible to make the existance of two different days mosre clear from the outset? Gareth Hughes 20:12, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Lenin Centenary

The date chosen for the orignal Earth Day teach-in was coincidentally the centenary of the birth of the founder of Soviet Communism, V.I. Lenin, a fact occasionally noted ominously by right-wing critics of the environmental movement.

Gamaliel, How could this factual statement directly concerning the subject of the article possibly be considered irrelevant? Anonip 00:24, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's irrelevant because Lenin has absolutely nothing to do with Earth Day, so it's no more of a coincidence than me sharing a birthday with Adam Ant. Gamaliel 00:59, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Gamaliel, "Irrelevant" means "unrelated to the matter at hand". The fact that the orignal Earth Day teach-in was held on the centenary of the birth of Lenin is clearly related to the subject of Earth Day, and that it has been noted ominously by right-wing critics of the environmental movement makes it significant to the subject. I believe your claim that it is not significant is POV. Anonip 01:19, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I know what irrelevant means, thank you. Instead of explaining what random words mean, maybe you can explain why these two things are "clearly related". Please specify what connection Lenin has to Earth Day. Was the first Earth Day in the USSR? Was it originally called "People's Mandatory Environmental Celebration"? Gamaliel 01:27, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Gamaliel, "Irrelevant" was not a random word. It was the word you used to justify removing the statement quoted above. Actually, it is clear on its face that the statement is related to Earth Day. The connection of Earth Day to Lenin is that the date chosen for its original observance was the centenary of Lenin's birth. Whether this connection is significant may be doubted, but obviously some right-wing critics of the environmental movement have suggested that it is (which is significant it itself). Anonip 02:01, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Gamaliel that this statement about Lenin is not relevant to Earth Day, using Merriam-Webster's definition: "having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand". It is hardly a coincidence that someone famous has a birthday on any given day. What significance do those "right-wing critics of the environmental movement" suggest that it has? — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:32, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, it is pretty clear to anyone who has paid attention to the environmental movemtn that it is chocked full of watermellons. The similarities between the philosophy and programs advocated by militant Greens and totalitarian socialism are too many to mention here. Control industry and concentrate centralized power through regulation and you can contorl the world. TDC 02:48, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

I know I look forward every year to the annual Save a Redwood for International Socialism march. Gamaliel 03:18, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Of that I have little doubt. TDC 03:31, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Earth Day wasn't established by militant Greens. Perhaps they advocate it, but it does not mean that everyone who advocates Earth Day is an ally of militant Greens. Although some are overzealous in their political activity, the purpose for Earth Day is not politics.--AI 00:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

The article "Earth Day 1970-1995: An Information Perspective" by Fred Stoss of the Energy, Environment, and Resources Center at the University of Tennessee, published in the Electronic Green Journal (April 1995, v. 2, no. 1) includes the following: [1]

Earth Day, April 22, 1970, coincided with the 100th birthday of Vladimir Lenin, and it was also the birthday of the original environmentalist, St. Francis of Assisi, both interesting sidelights.

Obviously Mr. Stoss considered this information relevant to the subject and of interest to readers, as I do. It may not be of interest to Gamaliel or Knowledge Seeker, but that is (dare I say it) irrelevant. Their disinterest does not justify excluding this information from Wiipedia. Anonip 03:04, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In that case I insist the article mention that Earth Day coincides with the birthdays of Immanuel Kant, Vladimir Nabokov, Charles Mingus, Aaron Spelling, Tony Danza, and, of course, Bettie Page. Gamaliel 03:18, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If you can find a citation that makes that point and if it a point that is shared by a sizeable minority, then yes by all means include it into the article. I apologize in advance for not holding my breath in anticipation of this momentous occasion. TDC 03:31, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

What "point" are you referring to TDC? DJ Silverfish 04:23, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The "point" is that no one is making hay out of the fact that Earth Day coincides with the birthdays of Immanuel Kant etc..., a large minority is, however, making the point that the first Earth Day was coincidentally the 100th anniversary of Lenin's birthday. TDC 13:46, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Gamaliel, If you seriously insist on including mention of those birthdays, then in the interest of comity I personally would not object. But there clearly is a difference between miscellaneous birthdays that happen to fall on the date and the centenary of Lenin's birth, which was an occasion of significant observance by the Communist world. Moreover, the connection of Earth Day to the Lenin centenary is not my own frivolous invention, but has been noted ominously by right-wing critics of the enviromental movement, as I have pointed out. Anonip 03:53, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We are under no obligation to record everything that has been "noted ominously" by right wing cranks. Gamaliel 23:14, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

does that also extend to We are under no obligation to record everything that has been "noted ominously" by left wing cranks? TDC 23:29, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, because opinion can form the basis of propaganda.--AI 00:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Gamaliel, Nor are we obligated to defer to your opinion that this information should be excluded. Anonip.

Gamaliel, Please justify your reversion of my edit. Anonip 02:40, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

See the above material. Gamaliel 02:48, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

AI, Please exlain the reason for your revert. Anonip 16:06, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Anonip, the way you worded it, Earth Day becomes a controversial holiday with communistic overtones. I just edited your paragraphs to make it neutral and I changed some names to personalities who more commonly known.--AI 01:49, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Al, Earth Day is a controversial holiday with communistic overtones to some conservative critics. That's the whole point. My wording accurately reports this fact. It identifies the source of the POV, and does not endorse it. It is entirely consistent with Wikipedia NPOV policy. Do you see this? Anonip 02:12, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Additionally:
Facts:
*1. Earth Day is on April 22.
*2. Lenin's Birthday is on April 22.
*3. Some conservative critics associate the two.
*4. Some critics are very biased (POV).
*4. Critic opinions are not always professional opinions.
*6. Too much credit is given to critics.
*7. Opinion can form the basis of propaganda.
Opinions:
*1. Earth Day is a controversial holiday with commistic overtones.
*2. Opinions should not just be accepted by default.
What do you think of my opinion (#2)?--AI 00:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Alleged POV wording

Zen, please explain how the wording you removed is POV. Anonip 06:43, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"ominously" implies something bad will happen, like the end of the world. "radical" generally is a bad word choice (given more neutral alternatives) and is POV in this context unless you are arguing earth day is a celebration primarily of "radical environmentalists"? Which I don't think can be true, so I removed it too. zen master T 06:47, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, "ominously" implies something bad. The critics I'm referring to intend that implication. It accurately describes their POV, as does the term "radical environmentalist". Using these terms in this context does not violate NPOV, and removing them changes the meaning of the statment. Anonip 06:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You should spell out exactly what those critics consider to be ominous rather than using the word generically (better to explain what you mean without that word). How is earth day relevant to "radical environmentalism" other than an original old date was Lenin's birthday? Earth day is not about radical environmentalism (if you disagree cite), please stop trying to stretch a sublte POV connection here. zen master T 07:02, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

With all due respect, I think Anonip should read Propaganda. Also please read my comment above on facts/opinions.--AI 00:04, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

UGen64, please explain your justification for reverting my edit. Anonip 07:21, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

On irc I asked him to take a look, he said "ominously" was pointless and "radical" was POV. zen master T 07:25, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see. You got him to revert for you in order to avoid violating the "3 revert rule". Clever. Anonip 07:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I asked him to "take a look at those word choices" if he had a second. zen master T 07:34, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please ask him to explain himself here. Did he read my response to your/his complaint above? Anonip 07:40, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ugen64 went to bed I believe, leave a note on his talk page for tomorrow. zen master T 07:49, 24 Apr 2005

(UTC)

Do you think Ugen64 might be up yet? Anonip 16:09, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Eddie Albert's Birthday

What's the origin of the story that the date for Earth Day was chosen because it was Eddie Albert's birthday? Anonip 19:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)