Talk:Ahmad Zahir

Misinformation

Album Dates
What is very unclear is the dates of the albums. The only way to prove this is to have the actual albums in their original covers and with the date of the recording. And if that can't be found, then you need to find the original recording dates from the studios-- Afghan Music, Ariana Music and Music Center.

As far as the Radio Afghanistan recordings, you can get that information from the archives at Radio Afghanistan; all the original recordings have survived with the dates, musicians and composition.

The point is, family or friends' accounts are great. But you also need recorded facts and sources. And if you got one source, excellent, now find another that backs it.

-- Farhad Azad

---

Ethnicity Question
It is disappointing to read these argument about what tribe or people he came from.

What is known is that he was born in Afghanistan and that made him an Afghan. And if he were alive today, I am sure he would be very sad to read these silly arguments.

If you are a true fan, listen to track 7 "Aye Hamwatan" (My Countrymen) on Ariana Music album 2. Listen to the lyrics and understand what message he had for his people.

And by the way, the first song on his first Afghan Music album is "Maihun Aye Maihun" (My Country). He officially began his album series dedicated to Afghanistan. Again, listen to the lyrics, where you can sense how he felt for his country and people-- passion, love and dedication.

-- Farhad Azad

---

There are people here notably user ID Anoshirawan who is spreading misinformation about Afghanistan, its culture, music, and definition. This person is knowingly spreading wrong information to spread his ideological ideas which are ethnocentric and notably anti-Pashtun. Qbzad

I wana add some more info about him, but she has blocked me. I have some good info from Ariana TV.

About the recent changes ...Ive worked hard to bring alot of accurate information through out the months so please do not erase or change my info...becuase this is wikipedia everyone is welcome to ADD info but not change information when they have no idea them selves. alot of the changes that have been made are info from Ahmad zahir.com which is someone elses work ..so no copy and pasting here and the person who made these changes dosnt realize that there was no telivison during half of Ahmad Zahir's career becuase telivision was released in Afghanistan in 1975 so Ahmad zahir's first album was long out before tv's became a regular house hold item . The Album info has been changed plz agian do not touch other peoples works ...someone has added ?'s on the years of the album to my best of knowlege those years are accurate or close enough becuase Ahmad zahir has 3-4 albums out in the late 60's. Ahmad zahir's music videos were recorded in 1976 and 1977..Khuda buwat yaaret was recorded at the time of Daud Khan in 1977. Also I beleive the same person changed the paragraph about some of his personal life like during 1976-1978 he had marriage problems with his second wife and he also was arrested a couple of times 1) becuase of Daud khan and some socalist politicians were doing purges on upper class people and anyone they saw a threat to the republic which Ahmad Zahir was a threat in thier views. 2) Ahmad Zahir was arrested also on speculation of having to be involved in the murder of Khalida Gulpar in 1976 or 1977..but he was cleared of any wrong doing becuase someone from his second wifes family murdered Khalida and forged a letter saying that khalida was killed by Ahmad Zahir becuase ..It was rumored that Ahmad Zahir and Khalida were having an affair.

the topic of Mabubillah Pacha is a rumor also so we can not speculate or blame him unless there is proof becuase there was a girl at the scene of the crime who witnessed Ahmad Zahir's death but till this day she has not said anything about it for reputation purposes. See like some of these things should not be put in the article or to replace accurate information unless who ever did this wants to make a seperate section or paragraph to ADD to the article. So I will not block this article becuase some people might have some good information about Ahmad Zahir..but if I see any HUGE changes or other peoples work's changed then I will block the Article from being edited by other users. Abdul916 18:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

to who ever changed the article with poor and untrue facts do not touch the article evr again ...i will block this article becuase time and time after people are vandalizing my work. Most of the info is factual nothing based on assumptions and for the person who went buck wild on my discography info ... you have no clue on what you are talking about the album shab-e hijran Afghan music #14 was recorded in 1973 before the fall of the Shah of Afghanistan my father brought the original recording of Afg #14 in 1974 when he came to the United States so you are completely inaccurate with your info on that one son saying it was recorded in 1978.. listen ppl Ahmad Zahir was pretty much not active in music through most of 1978 becuase of the death threats and his troubles with the law , the only factual info was Ahmad Zahir recorded his last album which was TOO BAA MANEE Music Center # 5 which was recorded though 1977 and completed in 1978 and was released after his death that and 1 or 2 private recorded songs for the radio even though he had a very entertaining majliss in feb or march of 79 and had said that he was going to make another album which would have been in Music Center also he was going to make 1 or 2 music videos too this is from his long time friend Amanallah Amanyaar who was head of radio kabul during the khalq times ..Masoor jamal was the head during parcham times which Ahmad zahir was already dead at that time...Farhad music there was no farhad music when Ahmad Zahir was alive ... dont base Ahmad Zahir's info on underground pakistani recording companies becuase that is what you are doing ...for example they list the original Ahmad zahir Afg music album #2 as javed music center #32 so which is fake and is not the original recordings.so sure whats next Ahmad zahir was going to record an album for Zabi music center or even Virgin records come on plzz give me a brake.. I can tell that you live in pakistan also if you want to add info on Ahmad zahir plz get the facts right and learn how to type proper english...but srry i will block this article becuase of made up and untrue asumptions. Abdul916 18:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Where do the Mods get their information from? All the information is based on self belief and emotions.

Ahmad Zahir was a Pashtun and his Father was a one time Prime Minister a known Pashtun. Where did you get the Pashai from just because Laghman has Pashai. You people really do know how to forge facts and truth into a self proclaim dream.--Shikab 03:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)Shikab

His father was from Northern Laghman(modern day nuristan). His mother was a Tajik--Anoshirawan 05:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Honest to God you people are the most illiterates I have ever come along with. Does education even exist in the minds of you people? Laghman province is a majority Pashtun province which I can proof through AIMS AND AFGHAN GOVERNMENT SOURCE which you people claim to be following but lie. Secondly just because a person is born in different part of the province or among different group of people it DOESNT I REPEAT IT DOESNT MAKE THAT PERSON THE SAME ETHNIC OR SECT.

So if we go by your logic than Rumi is Afghan not Persian? Earth doesn't rotate?

Stop trying to change a person's identity for your own purpose and stop claiming over Afghan culture.--Shikab 05:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Afghan culture is synonymous to Pashtun culture. -- Behnam 01:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

These fools love to change peoples identity. They claim all evidence shows him being Tajik/Pashia while thre is no evidence. That aside I guess those that are related to him and his son doesn't know his true identity only the mods in this encyclopedia know the truth?IDIOTS! Rishad Zahir's Email and if you can't trust it go ahead email him through his website or come to Toronto, Canada meet his family members.

M.... Jan salam. Hope youre doing well. Thanks for informing me regarding the Wikipedia situation. I will contact them this up coming week. We the Zahir family are proud Pashtuns, and this needs to be clear to every afghan. Again I apreciate you contacting me. Kuda hafez Rishad

Still can't trust go ahead contact him through his website.--ProudAfghan4life (talk) 20:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

About the Ethnicity of Ahmad Zahir

The information about the Ethnicity of the great singer Ahmad Zahir is wrong. He is not Pashai, or tajik he was Afghan. and is the son of the former prime minister Dr. Zahir

so please correct that

Ahmad Zahir was Pashtun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hon203 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC) regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.171.235 (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

All of the evidence I have seen indicates that Ahmad Zahir is an Afghan, and in fact a Pashtun Afghan. Anoshirawan claims that his mother was a Tajik, but I have seen no supporting evidence for that. Even if it were true, Zahir would still be an Afghan. So that is what the lead should say. If Anoshirawan can provide a citation to a reliable source for his statement about the mother, then it can be included below the lead in the early years section. As to his father, Abdul Zahir the evidence is again all on the side of his being a Pashtun, so why would anyone say that he was Pashai? Ahmad Zahir's mother may not be pure anything and may in fact be of Pashai and Tajik descent, but that too needs a source. For the nounce, until citation is provided, I suggest that the first sentences in the "Early years" section be changed to read, "Ahmad Zahir was born in Laghman, Afghanistan. His father, Abdul Zahir, the royal court doctor, was also a former prime minister and an influential figure in the Zahir Shah's era." It is not necessary to repeat his birth date, and the Persian calendar would only be relevant if his horoscope were discussed. --Bejnar 16:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

• {{editprotected}} Request that the unsourced and duplicative material be removed from the "Early Years" section so that it reads: "Ahmad Zahir was born in Laghman, Afghanistan. His father, Abdul Zahir, the royal court doctor, was also a former prime minister and an influential figure in the Zahir Shah's era." See above. --Bejnar 16:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I personally am not comfortable putting unsourced content into an article. Now I wouldn't mind making a simple protected edit like this, and I wouldn't mind removing incorrect information. However, could you get a source so that I (and anyone else) can verify that these fact are sourced.-Andrew c ^[talk] 02:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't asking that anything be added, just shorten what was there by taking out some stuff that was the subject of controversy. --Bejnar 01:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ahmad Zahir was born into a Pashaii Family who were from laghman. The village which they were from was in northern Laghman province(currently in Nuristan province). His mother was a Panjsheri Tajik. Dr. Zahir had numerous interviews in Kabul Radio about the Pashaiis of Laghman. Also, Ahmad Zahir was extremely Pro Persian(dedicated a song for the Iranian Shah) and only had 3 songs in Pashto. --Anoshirawan 06:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

In order for us to believe that, we need to see strong evidence. A link from some source would do, so we can check to see if you're telling the truth or not. As far as I know Ahmad Zahir is from Pashtun ethnic line, of the Mohammadzais. This is known by almost all Pashtun people. His place of birth has nothing to do with his ethnicity, even though the majority live there are Pashtuns. Also, his father and mother were both Pashtuns. He sang in Persian and in Pashto languages, it does not matter how many songs were in which language. As a neutral person, no need to mention ethnicity if there is no solid proof, leave it out. (Dilbar Jan 11:27, 8 October 2007 (UTC))

There are no Muhammadzais in Laghman. Most Laghmani Pashtuns are Ghilzai not Durrani. He had more english songs than pashto --Anoshirawan 22:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan (talk • contribs)

He sang in Persian languages because all his girlfriends were Persian speakers. His father was from Mohammadzai Pashtuns, it does not matter how many Durranis or Ghilzai live in Laghman, that's something extremely difficult to figure. Most Pashtuns don't even think of Durrani or Ghilzai, they use Afghan as a nationality. (Dilbar Jan 01:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC))

Ahmad Zahir's Pimp was Samad Dardar who brought kandahari girls not Persian speaking girls. His father was Dr Zahir a Laghmani(There are no Muhammadzais in Laghman, and the Ghilzai Pashtuns lived in southern laghman province while Tajiks and pashaii resided in the northern region which is part of Nuristan today. Ahmad Zahir was against the Muhammadzai government, thats why he has numerous songs against zahir and his family(for example: nala ba del shud gereh, rah e nayestan kujast), the lyrics were written by Khalili against the Muhammadzais and was pro Kalakani(naam cho jawed shud, mordanash asan kujast). Pashtuns are tribal, they identify their tribe and sub-tribe before they use Afghan lol and the Ghilzais and Durranis always resented each other. For more information on Ahmad Zahir you can ask his son Rashid who lives in the US and he claims he is not a Pashtun but a Persian speaker or you can ask Dr. Mohd Naim Farhan who was a close friend of Zahir. --Anoshirawan 05:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Gul Agha it seems like it that you will never stop with your emotional dulusional dreams of changing facts into dreams. This is why we Afghans laugh at your Qizils. First you try to claim you are Tajik or go to different forums and act as different ethnic group to get your emotions out. I even provided my facts in the Afghan forums that Ahmad Zahir was Pashtun. My grandfather was close ally of Zahir Shah and he knew Ahmad Zahir's father well since he was close friends with him. Ahmad Zahir's mom could hardly speak Dari and you consider him Tajik decendent. You claim so many things and yet no facts have been provided. The only reason you Cultureless people claim him as Persian is because he was a famous Afghan singer who sang in both Pashto and DAri. Also if you claim that Northern Laghman is populated by Pashais and this is your proof he wasn't Pashtun then you aren't Qizil since you live in teh west. After all the west is full of Foreigners such as Americans, British and so on. So why do you claim yourself to be Qizil if you live in the west fool? As always you embarass yourself befarhang benamos bewatan.– — … ° ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · § shikab: Shikab 03:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This is no Discussion Forum. This is an encyclepedia not a place to bash or curse others. Thank you --Anoshirawan 04:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the {{editprotected}} tag. Please re-add it when you have decided exactly how the section should be edited, including all necesary sourcing. Tra (Talk) 15:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

What happened this whole time I was gone...man!this is silly Ahmad Zahir is not afghanistani..he is Afghan and his ethnicity has nothing to do with his talent as a singer. All Pashtuns, Tajiks, uzbeks ,Hazaras, and turks are AFGHAN... and to the person that said Afghan culture is assoicated with being pashtun..NO ITS NOT thats what makes Afghanistan such a special place becuase every place has its own special people in afghanistan..Like we say Aaar jai az khud rasm o rawaj dara...so please refer Ahmad Zahir as Afghan... not Afghanistani or pashtun... or Tajik... when you read about a famous person from a country ..people only say what country he or she is from not what ethinic line they come from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdul916 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

who is this de-illusionized guy Bejnar? Either he is a Pashtun who covered his face or he is a wannabe Pashtun with no knowledge about Afghanistan, culture, hstory and many more. Gte a life boy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.213.103 (talk) 14:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Origine

where does it says that he was a dirty Fucktoon??? Did he claimed hmself so?? Was his name a zai or khil?? Didn´t he sang in Fuckto??? Wasn´t he a Tajik by culture, language identity?? Didn´t he himself identified himself with Tajik superiour culture?? What has Fucktoons??? Tents, camels, dogs and donkies. Pashtuns even haven´t a music culture. Do you think only Pashtuns were working in high positions?? Beside that the family called themself Laghmani which shows their origine, Tajiks. Only Tajik call themself after the province or city while Pashtuns don´t. Even in India and Pakistan Tajiks have the same mentality. The most educated people were Tajiks who filled the highest position in Afghanistan during the last kings, specially the Qezelbashs. For example my grand-father was the governeur of Maidan and later for a short time also of Wardak.

My family was very close to his family. They were a Tajik family with some lesser contacts to their surrounding families, mostly Non-Pashtuns. Ahmad Zaher self sang excluslivly in Persians. There is no one song that is in Pashto. He himself didn´t want to learn Pashto in school. There is a very nice history about his revolts in young ages against the forced language Fuckto. Stupid Fucktoons allways claimed Tajiks as homosexual nomadic and savage animals like they do with Rumi, Aviccena, Abu Hanifa and thousand other prominent Khorasanian/Tajik heros just because they self has nothing for presenting. This poor nation is just pathetic. Only Pashtun nationalist claim him as Ahmadzai Pashtun from fatherside and Tajik from motherside but it is absolutely wrong. He himself was a Pro-Tajik and a Anti-Pashtun person. The Taliban dishonoured his grave not because he was a singer but because he was a Tajik and we know the Talibans culture Pashtunwali is an arabized culture which reflects islamic behave but in real it was nothing else than Pashtunwali. The Taliban, as Pashtun nationalists and facists also wrote the book Bache Saqqaw-e dawoom. Don´t forget, Ahmad Zahir was threatend by Pashtun nationalists also during the time when he was alive. They were also who killed him because he was awaking again the Tajik identity with his songs from great Poets and epic-writers. Even the royal family was against him.

Ahmad Zahir was absolutely a Tajik. the preceding comments were added on 23 November 2007 by 88.68.202.2

• I see no citation to reliable sources in the above comments by 88.68.202.2. Some of it looks like original research. It seems to me that with an acknowledged Pashtun father, continued discussion of his ethnicity is a bit weird. I would just delete that disputed portion of the article. --Bejnar (talk) 01:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Prof Enayatullah Shahrani's Book " Bazmeh Ghazal" says Ahmad Zahir was half Pashaii and Half Tajik. Shahrani was the dean of the Fine arts faculty of Kabul University.--Anoshirawan 02:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anoshirawan (talk • contribs)

Can you please provide the details of that book? Then we can just cite it and put an end to the dispute. CanadianAnthropologist (talk) 15:43, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

YOU PEOPLE LOVE TO MAKE UP SO MUCH LIES. JUST BECAUSE HE WAS FAMOUS FOR SINGING DARI NOW YOU ARE TRYING TO TAKE HIS IDENTITY AWAY FROM HIM AND PLACE HIM AS SOMEONE WHO HE ISN'T. PASHTUNS ARE SPREAD ALL AROUND AFGHANISTAN. DURANIS CAN BE FOUND IN LAGHMAN AS WELL. HIS CLOSE RELATIVES LIVE IN TORONTO AND SOON WE WILL CONTACT EVERY RELATIVE OF AHMAD ZAHIR AND LET THEM BE KNOWN OF ALL THE LIES BEING POSTED HERE THAT HE IS TAJIK OR PASHAI. STAY TUNED WE WILL HAVE HIS FAMILY CONTACT WIKIPEDIA. UNCIVILIZED PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS ROB OTHERS FROM THIER CULTURE.

Rishad Zahir has been contacted and he has requested for the information to be removed completely or change his ethnicity back to Pashtun. No one has the right to rob his dad from his identity. For further information he can be contacted through his email in his website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ProudAfghan4life (talk • contribs) 17:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

unfortunateley he has no a typical Pashtun face, a long, hairy, dog-like face but a typical Tjaik face which show his ancestor line. Look to your ferooz homosexual kundoozi how he looks like. Tomorrow we will cleansing you bastards from our country. just wait..the day will come, inshallah!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.59.213.187 (talk) 13:42, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Questionable dates

Someone wrote this on the article:

The dates on these albums are questionable. For example, his last album "Afghan Music #14" was released three months after his death in August 1979. Yet according to the above dates, album "Afghan Music # 14" is released in 1973! The dates need to be to updated with accurate dates.

CanadianAnthropologist (talk) 22:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Professor Sharani...

Where is the text of this book? A source with the full text available to all to verify is better than citing something by name and giving no details. --ManOLantern (talk) 19:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Not POV neutral - lack of sources

especially the chapter Foul play and conspiracy lacks from neutrality. (E.g.: Whoever had murdered Ahmad Zahir murdered a afghan superstar who we will never forget.) It also lacks totally of sources. --213.155.231.26 (talk) 12:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I rewrote the "Death" and "Foul play and conspiracy" sections, which have no cited sources, trying to make them NPOV. If there are still problems there, please annotate them here. --Bejnar (talk) 16:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Bad citation

Anoshirawan cites Professor Enayatullah Shahrani (Dean of the Fine Arts Faculty of Kabul University) (1999). Bazmeh Ghazal, for ethnicity and parentage, however this citation is not verifiable. Anoshirawan also uses this citation in the Sarban article for an ethnic statement, where the problems with this citation are more fully discussed at Talk:Sarban#Ethnicity. --Bejnar (talk) 23:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I've corrected this and provided an English language source that can be verified by all. Here is an excerpt from the piece.

He also reflects an Afghanistan that was far less ethnically polarized than it is today. An ethnic Pashtun who sang mostly in Dari, he won fans in all ethnic groups.

"At that time there was not such a question -- we were Afghans," said Shah Muhammad, a Kabul bookseller who regularly sold books, Shakespeare among them, to Mr. Zahir.

--Kitabi420 (talk) 18:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

"Professor" Shahrani is a known advocate for federalism in Afghanistan. Aside from that, this so called source is not only inaccessible but also not available in English. I'd have to say that makes it difficult to prove it's relevance or that it even contains the claims Beh-nam and Anoshirawan attribute to it. --Kitabi420 (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems that Beh-nam or Tajik's sock wants there to be no ethnic reference if it isn't a Tajik one. I must say that this is not acceptable. There is no contradiction here as the author of the NY Times article spoke directly to Ahmad Zahir's sister. Further, the source that Beh-nam/Tajik/Anoshirawan insist on using on this and other articles is neither available nor verifiable. It is clear to me that the verifiable, English language source overrides a possibly fabricated source. Please make sure this stays. --Kitabi420 (talk) 17:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Sockpuppets of User:Beh-nam...

Advisory. Farsiwan22 (talk · contribs) and AhmadZahirFanNumber1 (talk · contribs) are both Beh-nam (talk · contribs). They have both left the exact same edit summary in reverting my edits. --Kitabi420 (talk) 21:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

That is because I copied and pasted AhmadZahirFanNumber1's edit summary. Farsiwan22 (talk) 21:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

How convenient. You are exposing yourself. It's interesting how you insisted on keeping Pashai/Tajik but are now saying ethnicity should be kept out all together. This tells me that you aren't quite confident in your fake source that you have also recycled for other articles. --Kitabi420 (talk) 21:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

When did I say he was Pashai or Tajik? I removed both statements since two sources are contradicting eachother. Farsiwan22 (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I see that you have become confused as a result of assuming a few hundred identities online. --Kitabi420 (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Death

Anoshirawan in his edit of 03:32, 7 February 2008, by his in-bulk restoration of an older version of the article deleted the requests for sources about the controversy surrounding Ahmad Zahir's death. Can anyone find any reliable published sources supporting these statements? --Bejnar (talk) 00:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

the article is not a reable source and it has some mistakes, so you can´t use it as source. Additional to that there are a movie about Ahmad Zahir on work (the trailor is already out) where it shows clearly he is born into a Tajik family (with some lesser Pashtun, Hazara and Pashai friends from Laghman and outside Laghman of the family).--84.59.202.126 (talk) 17:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)