Wikipedia talk:WikiProject NASCAR

Template Suggestions

Anyone out there? If so, howdy, new wikipedian here. This WikiProject seems to have been left vacant, but if not, I propose a standardization, based on what I've found in the Formula One WikiProject. I would suggest the usage of templates, to standardize the various pages, with the following templates suggested as starting points. First, an info box on each track page, with the F1 example here, and what I suggest following, proposed standard on left, current "standard" on right:

Daytona International Speedway

Location	Daytona Beach, Florida
Daytona International Speedway prior to the 2004 Pepsi 400.
Track length	2.5 miles (4.0 kilometres)
Track Shape	Tri-Oval
Banking	Turns - 31° Tri-oval - 18° Straights - 2°
Major events	Daytona 500, Pepsi 400, Bud Shootout, Gatorade Duel, Hershey's Take 5 300, Winn-Dixie 250, Florida Dodge Dealers 250
Capacity	240,000
Address	1801 West International Speedway, Daytona Beach, Florida, 32114
Owner	International Speedway Corporation

Daytona International Speedway
File:DaytonaInternationalSpeedway.jpg Daytona International Speedway prior to the 2004 Pepsi 400.
Facility statistics
Location	1801 West International Speedway, Daytona Beach, Florida, 32114
Capacity	240,000
Owner	International Speedway Corporation
Major races
2005 NASCAR Nextel Cup	Daytona 500, Pepsi 400, Bud Shootout, Gatorade Duel
2005 NASCAR Busch Series	Hershey's Take 5 300, Winn-Dixie 250
2005 NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series	Florida Dodge Dealers 250
Dimensions
Shape	Tri-oval
Distance	4.0 km (2.5 miles)
Banking/Turns	31°
Banking/Tri-oval	18°
Banking/Straights	2°

The only thing I don't like about the example on the left, is the jumble that is the Major Events. Perhaps limiting this to just major series, and adding details of each series' races in the article. That would resolve the unfortunate red-link syndrome happening, as each race does not yet seem to have a page.-slowpokeiv

I prefer the right example for cleaness and ease of finding the information you are looking for. I'd remove the caption on the image, but otherwise I prefer it to the box on the left.--Anorris 13:07, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Champions list(s)?

Would the list of champions be best listed on each division's main page (eg: on Nextel Cup, Busch, and Craftsman Truck)? Options as I see them:

• Leave all champion lists on their respective series pages. (Status quo)
• Create a page with all three lists on it, potentially called NASCAR Season Champions, and move all champ lists to that page.
• Create three pages, one for each series, potentially called List of NASCAR Nextel Cup Champions, etc....

My current thought is option number two, as leaving them on the respective pages might make those pages a touch too cumbersome, but the minor series don't really have enough champions to require their own pages at this time. Any other ideas? -slowpokeiv 15:14, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Standards Discussion

OK, there are a few of us now, high time for there to be a discussion of what standards should be. At this time there seems to be 5 main Categories:

• Tracks
• Races (including former races)
• Series (ie, NEXTEL, Busch, Truck)
• Drivers
• Teams

I'll set out my suggestions for each, as a starter for discussion, please, add as much as you can. :)

Tracks

• Should have the infobox in it, with some sort of illustration of the track. (Suggestion: actual photograph is better than logo, but logo is better than nothing.)
• Should have a detailed encyclopedic history of the track.
• Should have section for all current major races, NASCAR and otherwise. (Does anyone know if there has been a discussion of what a "Major Motorsport Series" is?)
• Should have section for all current track records, NASCAR and otherwise.
• Should have an "External Links" section, where links to the track and other relevant links can be placed.
• Should have appropriate series templates at bottom. (NEXTEL, Busch, Truck, and others if appropriate)
• Should have proper categories in place.

Races

• Should have race infobox in place, with race logo, when available.
• Should have listing of winners.
• Should have encyclopedic history of important races.
• Should have encyclopedic history of race changes.

Series

• ???

Drivers

• Ideally, should have driver photograph.
• Ideally, should have car photograph.

Russell William "Rusty" Wallace

Born:	August 14, 1956 in Fenton, Missouri
Hometown:	Charlotte, North Carolina
Car #:	2
Current Team:	Penske Racing
Championships:	1989 Winston Cup
Wins:	55
Top Tens:	341
Poles:	36
Race Starts:	687
First Race:	1980 Atlanta 500 (Atlanta)
First Win:	1986 Valleydale 500 (Bristol)
Last Race:	2005 Pepsi 400 (Daytona)
Last Win:	2004 Advance Auto Parts 500 (Martinsville)
2004 NEXTEL Cup Position:	16th
Best Cup Position:	1st - 1989 (Winston Cup)

• Suggestion: Creation of a Driver info box template with the following in it: (Borrowed heavilly from F1 infobox, as starting point)(example using Rusty Wallace)
  • Name
  • Birth Date and Place
  • Hometown
  • Car Number (logo of said number?)
  • Team
  • Races
    • Is this practical, as after every race, 43 articles would require updating?
  • Championships
    • Con: Vast majority of drivers would not qualify.
    • Pro: Very important if has been attained
  • Number of Wins
    • Minor Con: Would require 1 update after each race.
    • Pro: Very important if has been attained
  • Top Five/Tens
    • Con: Would require 5/10 updates per race.
    • Pro: Important if has been attained
  • Pole Positions
    • Important stat?
  • First race
    • Again, important stat?
  • First win
    • Just as important as First Race
  • Last win
    • Just as important as First Race
  • Last race
    • Last race reserved for former drivers
  • Last year's Championship Position
  • Best Championship Position
    • Possible replacement for Championships entry?

Is there anything missing? For that matter, is there anything not needed?

Could we include the picture as part of the infobox, similar to the way its done with the Presidential Infobox? --Anorris 13:14, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

I would like to, the only problem with that, is that it requires a picture on every page, something I'm not opposed to, but is lacking in most of our driver pages. -slowpokeiv 15:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Teams

• History is a must. (creation of team, etc...)
• List of current/former drivers.

What else?

Much of this is already in articles, yet much more is not, and most of it is not across the board. My intention is simply to open discussion on what should be in a NASCAR article, and to discover what is/isn't important to include. I have intentionally added things that I don't think should be in, and probably left out way too much, so please, if you think it should/shouldn't be there, say it now! :) -slowpokeiv 5 July 2005 20:12 (UTC)

On the driver page, how about we only list races won. i.e. Carl_Edwards#Races_Won. I've started doing that. The narration is still valuable, but a simple list of races won is nice. We can break it down by series. --edgester July 6, 2005 01:35 (UTC)

I'm of mixed opinion on a full list of races won. For a newer or lesser driver, the list would be more than managable, but take for instance Rusty Wallace (55 wins), Jeff Gordon (72 wins), or even the king, Richard Petty (200 wins). Not saying that a list is a bad idea, just that one might want to be cautious before adding that to the standard. -slowpokeiv 7 July 2005 14:53 (UTC)

Tobacco advertising

Anyone want to do a write up about NASCAR Winston Cup in the Tobacco advertising article? I would, but my writing skills (and knowledge of the pre-2002 NASCAR era) are somewhat limited... -slowpokeiv 18:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Already did the day before I found this project. If anyone wants to help out, please do, I did a simple writeup on it and uploaded the Winston Cup logo. --Anorris 12:57, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Pole Positions

Quick Question: Despite Bud's insistance, when all is said and done, Are Poles important/notable? As such, is it worth noting, except for the reasons of statistical completness, that Richard Petty had 123 poles? Yes, that's a fact that one can't take away, but does anyone care, and as such, should it be included? -slowpokeiv 13:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC) (addendum: OK, Richard Petty was a bad example, as having the record number of poles is notable, but a better example: Does anyone care that Dale Earnhardt had 22 poles, or is it that we care about his 76 wins and 7 championships? -slowpokeiv 13:43, 14 July 2005 (UTC))

I think they should be included in the interest of completeness --Anorris 13:00, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Proposal B

Last Win:	2004 Advance Auto Parts 500 (Martinsville)
Wins:	55
Top Tens:	343
Poles:	36
All stats current as of July 26, 2005.

Proposal A

Last Win:	2004 Advance Auto Parts 500 (Martinsville)
Wins	Top Tens	Poles
55	343	36
All stats current as of July 26, 2005.

Hmm, seeing that both Anorris and Camccamant (by insertion of said info into Jamie McMurray) deem poles noteworthy, only question is how to add it to the box. Again, using Rusty Wallace as example, I propose and vote for A, with the logical alternative B next to it. I feel that A is not only easier to read, and saves some space, but places emphasis on current statistics, and results. -slowpokeiv 20:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I vote for A. In my opinion it looks much nicer than B and, as slowpokeiv said, places emphasis on the statistics. Those three stats are perhaps the most noteworthy of a driver's career(except for championships). DomRem 21:50, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

I like A also, it just looks more proportional to the structure of the box Srcrowl 03:33, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR Britney Spears Drivers

This article has just appeared - and a related NASCAR Mandy Moore Drivers. Smells like a hoax - but I know nothing about Britney or NASCAR. Can someone who does verify this or let me know, or VfD?? --Doc (?) 22:04, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Seems to have returned under 207.161.35.138 (talk · contribs), a similar IP address. This one added "Music Teams" nonsense to Jeremy Mayfield [1] and Kyle Petty [2], both of which I reverted, and created a page named Team Britney Spears. I don't have any previous experience with VFD, but if I can figure it out I'm putting it up for deletion. DomRem | Yeah? 03:50, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, 207.161.33.170 has done the same type of vandalism to Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Kasey Kahne, and Jeremy Mayfield on 13 July 2005. Long story short, the BS and MM articles mentioned above were deleted on 20:42, July 30, 2005 (UTC) by an admin. I don;t know who (other than 207.161.*.*) Has a beef against NASCAR, but I guess that's all part of having an open source encyclopedia. -slowpokeiv 18:21, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Not again! Has revandalized Kyle Petty and added the same crap to Kurt Busch under 207.161.45.163 (talk · contribs). Should we list this in WP:VIP? DomRem | Yeah? 21:39, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Dunno, as the IP has changed, I don't know how much we can do... Best I can suggest, is keep track, and rv as much as in required (rv is easy.. Annoying, but easy...)-slowpokeiv 22:30, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Note: also same junk to Jeremy Mayfield and Jimmie Johnson, already RVd all four pages. -slowpokeiv 22:33, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

--Golfhaus 13:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Notability?

What is the definition of notability, in the NASCAR world? I pose the following points as to my definition, in my definition, any of the following are enough for notability.

• Series Champion (eg: Kurt Busch as 2004 NEXTEL Cup, Brian Vickers as 2003 Busch, etc...)
• Series Rookie of the Year.
• Winner of a race.
• Top Ten race finish.
• Has qualified for a Pole Position.
• Currently racing in any of the three majors series. (NEXTEL, Busch, Truck)
• Death on track. (Morbid, yes, but there is a Category for it...)

Any further ideas/comments are requested. -slowpokeiv 14:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Those seem good to me. Maybe another one to add would be an obscure fact about them that would make them notable. For example, H.B. Bailey was not very successful as a NASCAR driver. But, he was the driver to make a qualifying lap for the Brickyard 400. That's just an example, and it would have to be something very earthshattering in order for it to qualify(so it wouldn't be, first driver that cheated on a geometry exam, etc.). Also, I think perrenial fan favorites would be good enough(e.g. J.D. McDuffie, Kirk Shelmerdine) even if they haven't dominated the sport. --D-Day 13:04, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, sounds good, one more criterion (to restate your comment) would be unusual trivia. (Who was the first driver to take a qualifying lap at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway?) Re: McDuffie, even though he never won a race, he had 106 Top Tens, and a pole, so would qualify as noteable there. Re: Shelmerdine, is technically a current racer, so could qualify there. In my mind, he would also qualify as crew chief for 5 of Dale Earnhardt's Winston Cup championships, so maybe we should add Crew Chief of NASCAR Champion? While we're at it, Owner of NASCAR Champion? -slowpokeiv 18:31, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, didn't think of that. I had a hard time thinking of independent drivers who are/were wildly popular with the fans, so those two sprung to my mind. I do like the idea of Owner/Crew Chief of a NASCAR team, and I hope we can get bios of former teams on here as well. Obviously, we don't do long-gone teams that didn't do much(Buz McCall's #96 team for example), but Junior Johnson's and Junie Donlavey's racing should be worthy of their own article. --D-Day 12:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

How about Team Owner's? I see Hendrick Motorsports and Roush Racing both have pages, I was thinking about adding a Gibbs page, maybe a Robert Yates Racing page, are they notable enough? I think "Joe Gibbs Racing" is referenced on at least 9 wiki pages, and their is a mention of his racing team on the Joe Gibbs page (mostly devoted to football.) Srcrowl 03:21, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

I made a Joe Gibbs Racing page on August 9. Just stub-length right now, but it's a start. --Golfhaus 13:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR former driver

I've seen the variable Years_In_Cup show up, and all of a sudden, I'm thinking, that's not a bad item to add to the template. One more I might suggest: Total_Cup_Races. Any other notable statistics that are missing before I add them? -slowpokeiv 23:55, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I put the Years_In_Cup Statistic on there, in case you're wondering. I was also thinking top-5 finishes and money won would work too.

--D-Day 13:05, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Rookie of the Year listings

How do we want to represent (inside the drivers infoboxes) the Rookie of the Year listings? The reason I ask is probably nitpicky, (I have a bad habit of that) but I would like a standard across all pages, and I'm not quite sure which line to put. The examples I can think of/have used are as follows. My main Concerns are for:

• Readability (how it looks in the box)
• Clarity (of definition, to both NASCAR nuts like us, and to "rookies", for lack of a better term.)

Any ideas would be great, I can't say that I've formed an idea yet, other than I want a standard. -slowpokeiv 22:46, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Well personally, I love the current template for the Nextel Cup Rookie of the Year listings, and I would have added them when I did the Busch Series and Craftsman Truck Series listings, but I didn't want to make a mistake and mess up the entire article.(Which I seem to have an unfortunate habit of doing). So that would work. If you visit the article now, you'll notice that I've set up a couple of more asteriks for how that driver performed during that season(i.e. declared, did not run full schedule, still eligible). This is really one of the first comprehensive NASCAR Rookie of the Year listings I have ever seen, so it's really hard to follow an example. If we could somehow find a way show the statistics of the drivers(winners only, for spaces's sake) that would be good. I'm just throwing out ideas and seeing where they fall. --D-Day 13:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, I gues I'm getting confused now. I do like what's happening with the NASCAR Rookie of the Year page, especially the asterisks. (my comment might be to have other symbols for the double & triple asterisks, but still, *s are better than repeating what is not required) My question was, when on each driver's page (for example, on Rusty Wallace or Scott Riggs, what should their "award" look like, ie, should we spell out what NBS stands for, or is a link to Busch Series good enough? Should we include NASCAR, or is it clear enough without having to spell it out? Most important, do we have to say Winston Cup rookie of the year, or in the abscence of that, is it to be assumed to be the premier series? -slowpokeiv 18:00, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Let's see. I think a good idea for the driver's page would be just to have Busch Series. If someone without much knowledge of NASCAR comes along, they can just click on the link to find out more. I'm not sure about having to say Winston Cup ROY though. I know the article title was confusing because it was assumed it would contain info about every series and not just WC. I'd say, until someone comes with a better idea, let's just have it pointed out.

--D-Day 18:39, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers

I hereby nominate being selected as one of NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers an award worthy of notation in a driver's infobox. In the abscence of any "Nay" votes, I am also adding it to each of the 50 boxes, when they exists, using the following statement: Named one of [[NASCAR's 50 Greatest Drivers]] ([[1998]]) Any objections, speak now, else, will continue in said course of action. -slowpokeiv 16:33, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Owner/Team Templates?

I was just wondering if there should be templates created for car owners and/or teams. If so, things to be included should be year formed, races won, etc. --D-Day 20:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Great idea. I think it should be very basic on each owner page for NEXTEL Cup, Busch, Craftsman that lists (in this order):

• Logo of team/company
• Racing Series
• Owner Name(s)
• Car Number(s)
• Drivers
• Car Type (Dodge, Chevy, etc)
• Primary Sponsor
• Shop Location
• Link to homepage (Unsigned comment by User:69.134.50.153)

I support this. Oh, and just to state the obvious, don't forget wins/championships as well if this is created. DomRem | Yeah? 00:30, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Would wins/championships be too much for the box? ie Hendrick? 69.134.50.153 00:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, wins would be pretty hard to keep track of, but championships shouldn't really be a problem. DomRem | Yeah? 01:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Here is a possible example for the NASCAR Owners Infobox.

I've put it live on Robert Yates Racing so you can see how it looks on a page. Please adjust size/add things/etc. 69.134.50.153 01:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Once the image is in the box, it will widen the box out so the text won't go to the next line. 69.134.50.153 01:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks pretty good right now, although I think the logo should be before the Owner. DomRem | Yeah? 01:21, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Done and done. Let me add it to a team like Hendrick that has a lot of things going on.69.134.50.153 01:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, added infoboxes to Robert Yates Racing and Hendrick Motorsports articles so everyone can see what it will look like one a team with only a few cars and on one with A LOT of cars/drivers. If someone could add the logos, that would be great. Everyone should take a look and give input before we make this a standard.

By the way, looking at List of NASCAR teams, there are a lot of teams that need articles.69.134.50.153 01:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm removing the 250px from the template; as you can see on the Hendrick Motorsports page, this is too big for some logos. DomRem | Yeah? 02:29, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

• I'm not very experienced with templates, so I just replaced it with {{{Image_size}}}. DomRem | Yeah? 02:33, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Adjusted the size of the box a bit so that it looks a lot better on Hendrick Motorsports page, but still looks really good on a team's page that doesn't have as much going on (Robert Yates Racing.69.134.50.153 17:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)