Talk:Austria

Language

Who wrote this rubbish? The English is truly appalling and needs urgent attention which I am giving it.

Energy politics

The numbers listed are wrong, I tried to find current numbers, but the best I could find were from 2001 "The share of renewable energy sources in the total energy system has been rising since the mid 70ies and amounted to 22.65 percent of total energy supply in 2001." from http://www.energyagency.at/projekte/ren-in-a01.htm The main page is http://www.energyagency.at/projekte/ren-in-a.htm Can anyone find more recent numbers to put in?

Renewable energy % of gross electricity consumption

2001 67.4% 2002 66.0% 2003 53.4% 2004 58.7% 2005 57.9%

Source: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page?_pageid=2793,62648351&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&screen=welcomeref&open=/strind/enviro&language=en&product=EU_key_indicators&root=EU_key_indicators&scrollto=60 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.230.224.173 (talk) 10:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Someone put the word Vespene in front of gas, as an obvious meme. I've since edited it out. ~Railen

Colors of the flag

What do the colors mean?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.158.65.199 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 11 Feb 2003 (UTC).

If you mean the flag. Then it's the flag. Mintguy 02:52, 11 Feb 2003 (UTC)

I read that it referred to one ancient Emperor wearing a white tunic into battle. When he was finished, his tunic was so colored red by blood that only the white band where his belt was was left. Does anybody know anything about this? -- Zoe 03:19, 11 Feb 2003 (UTC)

I can confirm that (i'm Austrian ; ) --Stefankoegl 18:20, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've heard that too. Danny 03:23 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

I feel stupid now. Mintguy 03:26, 11 Feb 2003 (UTC)

Zoe is right about the legend (not about the "Emperor" bit though); see Third Crusade (where the Austrian participant is not mentioned) and aeiou Encyclopedia: Bindenschild. --KF 05:52 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)

I heard that the red is just the colour of the Harbsburgian Family. If you'Re all sure that you'Re correct i may be wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.124.128.53 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC).

the Habsburgian colours are black and yellow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.8.184 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The story with the flag color ıs a state myth or more an early political propaganda ( relating to Leopold V ) In reality ın the tıme same tıme a Austrıan nobility famely of Lower Austrıa died out and the posessıons where falling back to the Babenbergs as dukes of Austria by feudal law.This famely close to Zwettel had a red whıte and red shield. For a reason we dont know probably because ıt was simple the dukes overtook this shield. The castles witch name i have forgotten is still existing and you can see their the orignal red white and red shield painted as wall decoration.

May be that Leopold took this red whıte and red flag to invent this politıcal propaganda wich i have heard is older than this story. J. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.168.92 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Flag of Austria

What does the Flag of Austria mean? What does it represent? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.83.124.226 (talk • contribs) 09:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The "official" story is: the Austrian Duke Leopold V. fought during the 3rd cusade in Acre, Israel. He wore a white shirt and a belt. After the battle all his shirt was red, except for the part where the belt was before, where it was still white: red-white-red. Of course this is likely to be a myth ... --Wirthi 15:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Image of Kaprun

Hi Adrian, I find the image of the Austrian town Kaprun really nice, but why did you put it on the "Austria" page? I don't see any relation to the article. Fantasy 08:11 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi! from Adrian. I am extremely puzzled by your message. Kaprun is in Austria, and the article is called Austria!! I had imagined that a pic actually of an Austrian town would be nice to look at on the Austrian main page, as well as all the tables and facts. Evidently I was wrong and I'll remove it. Best Wishes Adrian Pingstone 08:25 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sorry Adrian, you got my question wrong. I was not complaining, I find the image really nice and I am really happy to find more of them in the future. I just thought there could be somewhere in the article mentioned, why this image is there and what special meaning this image has for Austria. I also find it sometimes sad, that articles are so "trocken" (=dry?), some additional things to make it look more interresting are surely of help. Fantasy 09:16 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

OK, Fantasy, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think a little piece about Kaprun or Austrian churches or what's in the image is the purpose of the Austria article. It's simply to give the facts about the country. Thanks for putting the picture back, it was only intended as eye relief from all the other dry facts and to show a fairly typical Austrian town. Maybe one day there will be a Kaprun page then I can move the pic over (perhaps I'll write it).
I've also illustrated the Kaprun disaster, that's my wife in the foreground.

All the best Adrian Pingstone 09:47 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Great, I am happy that we have the same point of view (specially on the "dry" topic ;-) If you want to show with this picture a "typical Austrian town", so I suggest that we just say so. I will do that, ok? Fantasy 09:55 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Excellent change to the caption, I like it a lot better now. I'm sorry I misunderstood you before.

Adrian Pingstone 13:04 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Fonts

Is it just me, or does it look like the two words of "Republik Österreich" have different fonts? RickK 06:00, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

No it's not just you - that's a weird problem. Fixed! Dysprosia 06:05, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Austrian roots of Adolf Hitler

Why the heck isn't Hitler listed under 'Well-known Austrians'? I'm pretty sure he's well known. mSprout 14:38, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

See the main article, there you will find Hitler et al. It is hard to choose a few "most important" austrians to be listed in Austria#Well-known_Austrians. I think you may change it as you like, until there is some objection. – Hokanomono 10:17, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Edit 45205732/Adolf Hitler

Sorry, but I didn't get a chance to say why I reverted (thanks, popups! I think). While I agree that it's important to mention Adolf Hitler reigns from Austria, the wording was horrible (obviously meant in a sarcastic manner) and doesn't really belong under Culture.

Also, he's in the List of Austrians. Maybe that's enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillG (talk • contribs) 02:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Adolph Hitler

Apparently Hitler wasn't actually born in Austria as i thought! There's not a single mention of him in the article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.138.1.15 (talk • contribs) 03:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, very few people born in Austria are mentioned in the article. Actually, only in the paragraph "Culture" some famous Austrians are mentioned and I don't think that the few pictures Hitler painted made him a famous painter. If you check List of Austrians you will find Hitler and all the other people you might be interested in. --Wirthi 10:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The thing you don't understand is that A. Hitler WAS Austrian until the age of 25, but as he entered in the German Army in 1914, he lost his Austrian Nationality. Hitler never acquired the German Nationality, but still, he was born in Austria, and remains beside Arnold Schwarzenegger one of the most famous Austrians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.119.171.91 (talk) 15:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

country table: currency

Is it really necessary to state in the table, that prior to 1999 the Schilling was Austria's currency? IMPOV the table ought to give nothing more than a concise overview. We might want to put this information somewhere in the main body of the article. Gugganij 07:47, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I was just wondering the same -- either we should just mention the euro, or else for consistency we should mention all the currencies used in the Republic of Austria - the Austro-Hungarian krone until 1923 and the Reichsmark between 1938 and 1945... -- Arwel 00:31, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree, mentioning historical currency doesn't fit the purpose of the infobox. -- Naive cynic 01:26, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Suggest 22 possible wiki links for Austria.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Austria article:

• Can link Latin name: ...ire of [[Charlemagne]]. Interestingly the derivation of the Latin name from the original Old German gives rise to the use of ''Aus... (link to section)
• Can link classical Latin: ...the use of ''Aust-'' for 'east', rather than 'south', as in classical Latin.... (link to section)
• Can link 13th century: ...s under the rule of the [[Babenberg]]s from the 10th to the 13th century. The Babenbergs were then succeeded by the [[Habsburg]]s, w... (link to section)
• Can link whose line: ...y. The Babenbergs were then succeeded by the [[Habsburg]]s, whose line continued to govern Austria until the [[20th century]].... (link to section)
• Can link monetary system: ...]], Austria joined the [[European Union]], and the [[Euro]] monetary system in [[1999]].... (link to section)
• Can link social-democratic: ...h has 183 directly-elected members. After three decades of social-democratic ([[SPÖ]]) participation in government, a right-wing coaliti... (link to section)
• Can link right-wing: ... social-democratic ([[SPÖ]]) participation in government, a right-wing coalition was formed in [[2000]], consisting of the conserv... (link to section)
• Can link conservative People's Party: ...ht-wing coalition was formed in [[2000]], consisting of the conservative People's Party ([[Austrian People's Party|ÖVP]]) and the right-wing Freedo... (link to section)
• Can link Freedom Party: ... Party ([[Austrian People's Party|ÖVP]]) and the right-wing Freedom Party ([[Austrian Freedom Party|FPÖ]]). However, after some turmo... (link to section)
• Can link landslide victory: ...n the elections of [[November 24]], [[2002]], the ÖVP won a landslide victory (42.3% of the vote), whereas the FPÖ was reduced to a mere ... (link to section)
• Can link Die Grünen: ...18 seats FPÖ ([[Austrian Freedom Party]]) (10.1%) *17 seats Die Grünen ([[Austrian Green Party]]) (9.47%)... (link to section)
• Can link Vice Chancellor: ...ain with Wolfgang Schüssel (ÖVP) as Federal Chancellor. His Vice Chancellor was [[Herbert Haupt]] (FPÖ) until replaced by [[Hubert Gorb... (link to section)
• Can link federal republic: ...ve divisions == ''Main article: [[States of Austria]]'' A federal republic, Austria is divided into nine states, or ''[[States of Aust... (link to section)
• Can link above sea level: ...e highest mountain is the [[Grossglockner]], at 3798 meters above sea level, followed by the [[Wildspitze]] (3774 m). ... (link to section)
• Can link market economy: ... [[Economy of Austria]]'' Austria, with its well-developed market economy and high standard of living, is closely tied to other [[Eur... (link to section)
• Can link standard of living: ...' Austria, with its well-developed market economy and high standard of living, is closely tied to other [[European Union]] economies, esp... (link to section)
• Can link service sector: ...ge-based sectors of the economy, continue to deregulate the service sector, and lower its tax burden.... (link to section)
• Can link ethnic group: ...Austria]]'' German-Austrians, by far the country's largest ethnic group, form between 85% and 89% of Austria's population. Around t... (link to section)
• Can link minority group: ...(Gastarbeiter) and their descendants also form an important minority group in Austria.... (link to section)
• Can link Austro-Bavarian: ...cts. All of the dialects in the country, however, belong to Austro-Bavarian groups of German dialects, with the exception of the dialec... (link to section)
• Can link Press Freedom: ...idays in Austria]] *[[Reporters without borders]] Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2002: Rank 26 out of 139 countries (three-way tie)... (link to section)
• Can link information system: ...or Education, Science and Culture] Hyperwave-based cultural information system, a bit like a moderated culture wiki.... (link to section)

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:25, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

need help

my daughter is doing a project on Austria and we need to find the national animal,sport,flower,etc.Any help would be appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiredwizard (talk • contribs) 20:19, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This sounds like a very superficial project. Probably Wikipedia is too sophisticated for questions like that. Some suggestions:

• Animal: none in particular. What about a grilled chicken, or a pork sausage? :-)
• Sport: definitely alpine skiing
• flower: maybe Edelweiss?

Martg76 20:28, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

An animal could be the "Milka Kuh", a violet cow, maskot for an Austrian chocolate company.

See: de:Milka-Kuh, Milka --Andreas Ipp 04:00, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I couldn't find any information confirming that Milka is Austrian. Is it Austrian? – Hokanomono 12:52, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I thought so, but it might also be Swiss. Probably it is swiss, since its founder Suchard is swiss... --Andreas Ipp 10:36, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Milka is an Austrian Company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.146.211 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Milka is no company, it's a label of the US company Kraft Foods Inc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.119.11.248 (talk) 20:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

What about Lipizzan? – Hokanomono 12:52, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You are right, white horses are better than violet cows. :-)

I made a new page Spanish Riding School since it was missing...

From Vienna I also find: "the Vienna Boys' Choir (Wiener Sängerknaben), Wiener Schnitzel, Sachertorte, and various pastries. Viennese cafes claim to have invented the process of filtering coffee from the captured baggage after the second Turkish siege of 1683." --Andreas Ipp 10:36, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, there's an Eagle holding a hammer and a sichel (english word for it?) on the national flag, i don't know if it qualifies as :antional Animal. An Milka is Indeed an austrian company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.124.128.53 (talk • contribs) 15:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Theır ıs no real national animal existing the eagle ıs seen as a natıonal animal ın a way . In the alps Enzıan and Edelweıs ıs seen as natıonal flowers but that ıs common in switzerland and in Slowenıa too. J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.168.92 (talk • contribs) 10:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

If I had to choose one I would say the cow. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.146.211 (talk • contribs) 22:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The word "Austrian" should NOT be used to label the country's ethnic majority

Somebody has repeatedly changed the description of the largest ethnic group in Austria to simply "Austrians". This use of the word is completely misleading and incorrect, a simple look at other references on Austria will confirm this. There is simply no such thing as an "Austrian" ethnicity alone. Before the end of the second world war most Austrians clearly identified as ethnic Germans. Although it is clearly insensitive to label modern Austrians as ethnic Germans, it still does not make any sense to create an Austrian ethnic label on Wikipedia when it exist virtually nowhere else.
The original phrase that was used in this article was "German-Austrians". I personally find this term a bit too complicated and would recommend the use of a more sensitive label. My last suggestion and edit for this subject was the term "Germanic-Austrians". Another posibility would be "Austrians of Germanic descent".
But the fact remains Austrian has not ever been commonly used as and still is not (even six decades after the Second World War) an ethnic label.

Here is how other references handle the issue...

CIA World Factbook: Austria - Ethnic groups: German 88.5%, ....
Lonely Planet: People: 97% Germanic origin, 2% Slovene & .....
Encyclopedia Britannica: population, ethnically Germanic......

I suggest the use of the term "Germanic-Austrians", which is in line with many other references and avoids the insesitive labeling of Austrians as "ethnic-Germans".
I would also suggest that the person who keeps changing the term to simply "Austrians", join the discussion and give their reasons.

FrederikM --80.128.37.75 21:51, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

i think it is alright to call austrians austrians because for an example or two you would'nt call Canadians English or French because of their language or Australians English because of their native toungue but maybe things are diferent in Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander S. (talk • contribs) 00:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a new section, an introductory text, to the demographics sections, for the sake of clarity. I as someone who is half Austrian and has lived in English-speaking countries for much of my life, am aware of how confusing the issue of Austrian nationality is to many people outside of the country, i.e are they Germans or not?, How was Hitler German and Austrian?, etc. Therefore I think it is important to have the text I placed the demographics section that quickly explains the historical background briefly and the current situation. If anyopne has any objection please let me know. I do however feel that this will make the article clearer and is a neccesary piece of information in a reference text about Austria and I beleive it belongs at the beginning of the demographics section and NOT in history.

FrederikM --80.128.37.75 21:51, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The use of Austrian as the name of an ethnic group raised my brow as I read this article, too. To me, Austrian describes geography and nationality (in a political sense), not ethnicity. Regionally, German-speaking Austrians are at least as different from one another as Germans are from one another, and generally speaking, share more culturally with Bavarians than Bavarians do with the rest of Germany. Austrians, the vast majority of them anyway, are ethnic Germans. That said, I also see no reason to make it "politically correct" by saying "Germanic Austrians" or "German-Austrians". I think one ought to expect the reader to know in what sense the word German is being used. It has nothing to do with what government issued their passport. For the last sixty years, the idea of a German national/ethnic identity has become nearly taboo, with regional pride and regional rivalries filling the vacuum. That doesn't mean a German ethnicity doesn't exist. --Trweiss 22:07, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Trweiss I agree with you on the subject of being "politically correct" to some extent but I do beleive it is totally neccesary for the simple reason that this is an open encyclopedia. The original word used in the article (and I was one of the first to expand the demographics section here) was "German-Austrian" and that was in my opinion a perfectly acceptable term but it ended up getting repeatedly deleted, my guess is mostly by Austrian visitors. The use of the term "German" alone is really not an option for the simple reason that this page will be visited by many people with little or no knowledge of Austrian and German history, so the term would lead to a considerable of confussion even if it is placed in quotation marks and accompanied by an explanation. The term "German" should also not be used to avoid offending a good amount of the Austrian visitors to this site. As someone with an Austrian passport, I know how sensitive the subject is to some Austrians.
Personally I think the term "Germanic-Austrians" is an acceptable comprimise that is both in line with other English-language references and avoids the incorrect use of the word "Austrian" as an ethnic lable.

FrederikM--80.128.52.254 22:56, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Germanic" (as used by LP and EB) is best. It clearly indicates an ethnic origin not a nationality. "Germanic-Austrian" is unnecessarily verbose. Mr. Jones 10:47, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to delete this:
The issue of Austrian nationality and ethnicity was throughout recent centuries and remains to this day a sensitive issue and a topic of dispute. Before the end of the Second World War, most of Austria's population were clearly self-identified ethnic-Germans, who considered themselves part of a larger German Volk (ethnic nation), together with the other German-speaking-populations of Europe. A strong distinct Austrian national identity has emerged since the mid-twentieth century and most Austrians now no longer identify themselves as "Germans". In modern Austria only a small minority of the population, mostly but not entirely people with conservative or far right political views, advocate a pan-German ethnic identity for German-speaking Austrians.

1. I don't think it is necessary to make an attempt at describing Austrian national identity problems in this article at all.
2. This above text does not do the job
3. the above text is pov - not many Austrians would describe or would have described themselves as 'German' or 'Germanic', because the cultural differences are large, and 'Bavarian' would probably be more acceptable
4. slavic influences in the east are and were important
5. the west is allemanic in culture, and historically had more of a tendency towards Swizzerland than Germany
6. the federal character and the diversity is obscured, f. i. Tyroleans would see themselves as Tyroleans first and foremost, and would certainly find it absurd to be called 'germanic'.
7. German sources equivalent to the CIA factbook talk of 90,7 % Austrians (Fischer Weltalmanach 2001), just for the record.

I don't think it is necessary to make an attempt at discribing Austrian national identity problems in this article at all, and would like to delete the above quoted text.--Fenice 18:16, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

It makes no sence to discuss if Austrians are ethnic Germans or not... About 90% of all Austrians identify themselfs as ethnic Bavarians or Alemanics. I`m allowed to say that because I´m Austrian. Bavarians from Bavaria identify themselfs also as ethnic Bavarians and do not as Germans. It never existed an pan-german-nationality-feeling bevore Adolf Hitler.
It is correct that Austrians of german mother tongue identify themselfs as "Germans" before the second world war. But you have to make a big difference: When a Austrian of german mother tonge say: "I'm German" he always means "I'm german speaking" - also before the second world war.
You also have to make a difference between northern germans and southern germans - they are culturally totaly different!
A "German" is: only an inhabitant of de Federal Republic of Germany, or: summary (not culturally, ant ethnical - but in the sence of the language) of volkgroups.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.245.10.1 (talk • contribs) 23:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

It never existed an pan-german-nationality-feeling bevore Adolf Hitler. (Bangs head against wall) To use the term "Austrian" to describe the German-speaking minority expresses the POV that Slavic-speakers, or Turks, or whoever, are not Austrians. To use the term "ethnic Austrian" would be absurd. I'm not even going to get into "ethnic Bavarian." The only proper term is "ethnic German" or "German-Austrian." john k 03:49, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Turks are not an "national Austrian minority group"! Austrians of slovene- or croatian tongue also do not identify themselfs as "Slovenes" or "Croatians"! They are also "Austrians".
People from different english-speaking-countries also do not identify themselfs as "English" people. - You have to accept that a majority of Austrians don´t want to be identify as "Germans", because we are what we are AUSTROBAVARIANS.
If you would live in the German-speaking-countries, you would see and accept, that no lager-german-ethnic exist (in the head of the most) and never existed and in future not will exist.
What you mean is: a summary of Volkgroups who have quite the same language
If you have any knowledge about the german language you would see, that only some dialects in the north of Germany - known as "Highgerman" - is the Language wich is standard. In Austria we speak "bavarian" very hard to understand for north-, west-, and east-germans, and write Standardgerman. For example Dutch is much more easyer understandable for northgermans (when they speak dialect) than bavarian! And bavarian is so called an "german dialect" - you have to immagin. When you call me a "German", you also have to call a Dutch as "ethnic german"!
I have seen on your personal page that you are from the USA, would you identify yourself as "ethnic English"?
At the end of the first world war, Austria planed to get a part of Germany, but the plan was to be a very autonom state in a greater Germany. The austrian goverment don't wanted to be under porussian regiment even not the volk. The most of the people in Bavaria and Austria always had an bavarian identity. Bavaria today also is so called a "Freestate" it is an autonom State in the federal republic of Germany, as three other States. You can see, even in Germany most of the Bavarians, and others don't feel "German". In Bavaria about 60% identify themselfs as Bavarians at first... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.245.10.1 (talk • contribs) 01:08, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually, a current German "free state" (Freistaat) just uses a different word, but has no legal, administrative or institutional difference with a "federal state" (Bundesland). See de:Freistaat, especially "Die heutige Bedeutung des Begriffs". - Regards, Evv 19:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Dutch is a Low German language which is, so far as I am aware, not intelligible with Hochdeutsch. The language spoken by most Austrians and Bavarians is much more intelligible with Hochdeutsch, and as you note, Hochdeutsch is the written language. The fact that Low Saxon dialects are more closely intelligible with Dutch than they are with Bavarian is true - but those languages are also more intelligible with Dutch than they are with standard German. But the basic fact is that both Austrians and Bavarians have always been considered ethnic Germans, and are still so considered. At any rate, your own argument is incoherent. My argument is that it is completely incoherent to pretend that "Austrian" is an ethnicity. If we use the word as synonymous with "the German-speaking population of Austria," then we are saying that any non-German-speaking Austrian is not an Austrian. The term "ethnic Austrian" is ridiculous, because Austrian is not an ethnicity - it is a nationality. It would be like calling old stock White Americans "ethnic Americans." If you don't like the term "ethnic Germans," I am fine with using "German-Austrians." But any other term just confuses the issue. Especially since not all Austrians speak the Bavarian dialect - my understanding was that those in the Tyrol speak an Alemannic dialect. john k 03:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

John, the people of Tyrol do speak a Bavarian dialect. It's Vorarlbergisch which is an Alemannic language. With respect to the actual issue, I think it should be taken into account that many Austrians (probably most among those who are younger than 45 or so) literally take offense at being considered "German". And we know that ANY nationality or ethnicity is an artificial contruct after all, right? Martg76 03:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. As to the issue, I can understand the sensitivities of Austrian people, but there really is no good way to indicate what we are talking about without using the word "German." This may be unfortunate, but it's how it is. "Austrian" is not an ethnicity, and to say that they are of "Austro-Bavarian" ethnicity is completely opaque to most English-speakers. The point is that we are indicating what percentage of the population are first language German-speakers. Using "ethnic Germans" (which is not the same thing as "Germans") or "German-Austrians" is the only good way to indicate this. john k 04:12, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I don't care as much about this as our anonymous contributor above, but I rather favor the current version which speaks of "Austrians of German mother tongue". This wording should neither offend Austrians nor confuse other readers. Martg76 04:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

That's an incredibly awkward locution. I'm so sick of pandering to absurd nationalist sensibilities. john k 17:30, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The fakt is: that no greater-german-ethnicity exist. It is a summary of ethnicities witch have quite the same language. An "lager bavarian ethnicity" exist!
there are following "german-speaking" ethnicities:
1. Bavarians - living in southern Bavaria and Austria
2. Alemanics - living in Switzerland, Baden-Würtemberg and Elsass (France)
3. Franconians - living in Bavaria, Baden-Würtemberg, Hessen
4. Porussians - living in the rest of Germany
5. lower Saxons - living in the north
those are own ethnicities, in the sence of the language so called "Germans". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.245.211.185 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

To Anonymous:

Although Bavarians, Alemanics, Franconians, Thuringians were quite distinct groups in the early Middle-Ages, a common german identity soon emerged. This can be mainly traced in the writings of poets and other intellectuals, who freguently complained about the poor state of the HRE. By the 19th century there was a popular feeling of german national unity (ironically german nationalism before 1848 was liberal to left wing, because it was in favour of a united Germany (constitutional monarchy or even republican) and strongly opposed to the conservative princes of the separate German states). Austrian archduke Johann was elected Steward of the German Empire by the German parliament of 1848.

Although Austrians know that their dialects are Bavarian and that Austria was part of Bavaria for a long time, they certainly don't think of themselves as "Bavarians" anymore. This term is now restricted to Bavaria proper. (Unlike people from Vorarlberg who like to emphasize that they are Alemanic). And of course Slovenians consider themselves Slovenians AND Austrians but not Austrians who accidentaly speak Slovenian.

Besides: "Hochdeutsch" is not the written language but all the dialects south of the so called Benrath-line. It is based on old-high german, whereas "niederdeutsch" is based on old-saxon. The German standard-language evolved out of high-german dialects. Therefore, linguists like to say that for Northern Germans Standard-german is a foreign language (and therefore they keep Standard-german clean from local pronounciations unlike people from high-german areas).

The idea of an Austrian identity entirely distinct from German was introduced and embraced only after 1945. However, since most Austrians now identify as Austrians and there certainly is no danger of a second "Anschluss", during the 2005-anniversary celebrations there were frequent (cautious) allusions (by commentators which certainly cannot be labeled as nationalists), that this distinct Austrian identity originally was part of the "Opfermythos".

Changes in reference books: in 1980 the "Fischer Weltalmanah" still refered to "Austrians of German descent". In 2005 the CIA-Worldfactbook changed to "Austrians".

deutschsprachige Oesterreicher (Austrians of german mother-tongue) is the pc-term generally used in Austria since 1945.

Schreiber 22:01, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I actually didn't plan to add to this discussion. However, I feel it's necessary as the artice in the current form is incorrect. I think the problem starts with the vague definition: "An ethnic group can be determined on the basis of a complex set of characteristics, including race, nationality, religion, ancestry, and language."
The Austrian census does not collect data in the form it's argued about above. The only ethnic data gathered is citizenship, country of birth and religion. [1] The 91.1 % stated in the article refer to Austrian citizenship and therefore the term Austrian seems most appropriate.--Austronaut 01:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Just because someone speaks German does not make the person German. Or are people from Liechtenstein and the German-speaking parts of Switzerland considered "German" as well? And German speakers from South Tyrol? Define "German". Gryffindor 01:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparently there is some data on the indigenious minority groups of Austria. Do you know how this data is collected and where it can be obtained? Nahabedere 10:11, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

All the data is available from Statistik Austria. The indigenous minorities are defined as Austrian nationals with a colloquial language as outlined by Austrian indigenous minority law. However, there are discussions about the accuracy of the census as most of the minority is bi-lingual and tend to mark German as colloquial language. --Austronaut 18:59, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Patrick: Please consider the motto of the former Emperor of Austria: AEIOU ! (Austria Est Imperare Orbi Universo / Alles Erdreich Ist Osterreich Untertan) We rule the world, and no one else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.114.183.219 (talk • contribs) 22:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems like the CIA Factbookt has changed it`s mind: Ethnic groups: Definition Field Listing Austrians 91.1%, former Yugoslavs 4% (includes Croatians, Slovenes, Serbs, and Bosniaks), Turks 1.6%, German 0.9%, other or unspecified 2.4% (2001 census) (https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/au.html#People) --193.170.52.132 22:04, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add that this discussion is negelecting the fact that 95% of the viennese population is at least partly of eastern European origin. The viennese population is not ethnic german whatsoever! 212.183.41.16 12:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Advertising spam?

Hi,

Last night I discovered that my submission on this page was identified as spam
- * Austrosearch Bilingual Austrian Search engine and Directory (German, English)

I sent an inquiry with the moderator that removed it but I feel that maybe I posted the link without first inquiring the moderators regarding it's inclusion as an external link on this page. I have run Austrosearch for the last 7 years at a loss out of my own pocket, thus I feel calling my post spam to be unfair as it is more of my self appointed charity work for a country with one of the world's highest living standards. The other websites already listed as external links are no more nor less relevant to Austria than Austrosearch. Other websites have been very kind to my work promoting Austria such as Dmoz was below.

Austrosearch is listed in Dmoz under the following categories.

1. Regional: Europe: Austria: Guides and Directories (1 match)
2. World: Deutsch: Computer: Internet: Suchen: Verzeichnisse: Österreich (1)
3. World: Deutsch: Computer: Internet: Suchen: Suchmaschinen: Österreich (1)

I submit that I may have my own political views on Austria and those are kept in the features section. I do not filter submissions based on political affiliations, only on relevance that the websites included in the directory have some direct basis relating to Austria. Austrosearch crawls, indexes, and caches for the public's benefit hundreds of News articles daily in German and in English.

Kindest Regards, Jason —Preceding unsigned comment added by Austrosearch (talk • contribs) 22:19, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am not certain for how long this will remain on as a top result, but I did a check for websites that link to Austria - Wikipedia and my website was the first search result on msn
1-10 of 1,423 containing link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria -site:wikipedia.org.

Today I discovered the #wikipedia irc channel and found folks to be very informative and more than willing to let me know what got my site initially removed. I acknowledge now after those discussions that it would not be appropriate if I were to submit the link to the Austria - Wikipedia page. Nevertheless it is my hope that someone find it of merit to be added as Austrosearch works hard at it's mission as a non partisan source and record of information and fact directly pertaining to Austria. Regards,
Austrosearch 23:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Body of a reply to an email sent by Jason:

Yes, I removed your link for the following reasons:

1. Policy: See Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files

2. Your link was placed in a position on the list suggestive of the behaviour of a spammer, i.e. at the top of the list, ahead even of those of the Bundeskanzleramt and the Austrian National Tourist Office.

3. At the time, the link to your user page was showing red, and you had very few contributions (indeed, I think none other than to austrosearch.at), which again is suggestive of a newly-arrived spammer's behaviour -- it's a good idea to build up a profile as a contributor of useful edits to the body of articles, which will help to allay fears of you being a spammer.

If I misjudged you, then you have my apologies. On the information available at the time, and given the need to make a swift decision while monitoring edits to over 2000 articles, I think I acted properly. If you wish to reinstate the link at a less-prominent position in the list, then I will not remove it again, though I see from Talk:Austria that others on IRC have given you reasons why the link may have been removed, so someone else might still do so.

Incidentally, it was not necessary for you to seek out one of my actual email addresses to contact me -- most users like myself have an option set in their preferences to display an "email this user" option in the navigation bar to the left of their user page. Even quicker would have been for you to leave a note on my User talk:Arwel Parry page!

End of quote.

• -- Arwel 23:47, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Being a new contributor to Wikipedia is definately a learning experience. Being a member of several open source communities I must say I am a bit embarrased how things started out. I think it really should be considered to warn folks such as myself wishing to contribute to wikipedia that starting off adding your own link is definately the wrong first move.
Thanks for your newbie tolerance!
Jason Austrosearch 00:37, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with your link. I've re-added it. Mr. Jones 10:57, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

POV speculation

To meet increased competition from both EU and Central European countries, Austria will need to emphasize knowledge-based sectors of the economy, continue to deregulate the service sector, and lower its tax burden.

This seems rather POV speculation. Who added this? Is it from the CIA fact book? If so, perhaps it should be attributed. Mr. Jones 10:47, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reverted vandalism

I reverted 213.132.117.4's vandalism. People really need to grow up. =\ --Kross 09:36, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Restructure, rewrite

I've restructured and rewriten some parts of the article. I stop now, however I want to point out that the article is in desperate need of

• a more detailed history section (especially 19th and 20th century)
• an expanded Religion section
• Education/Social situation etc. sections

Themanwithoutapast 05:05, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

new template: subarticleof

I have replaced a few substituted instances of the template {{Main}} by {{seesubarticle}}. This because the accompanying template {{seemain}} was hopelessly confusing with Main. I have placed the accompanying template {{subarticleof}} on the according subarticles. For feedback and suggestions please visit Template talk:seesubarticle and Template talk:subarticleof. Thanks --MarSch 11:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Regarding "ÖVP politicians have suggested NATO membership"

IMHO (as an Austrian very much interested in politics), it is a very minor fact that some ÖVP politicians have occasionally proposed joining NATO. If we mention this in the main article, we should also mention in the Iceland article that some politicians have proposed to join the EU. The proposal to join NATO was of importance during the Cold War, but after the fall of the Soviet Union, the idea of joining NATO is not even remotely considered by ÖVP politicians any more (openly, at least), because public opinion is somewhere above two thirds against that proposal. While browsing through pages on Austria, I just felt that this factoid was not really notable. ::shrugs:: Would be interested as to why you think this is notable. Thanks in advance! ナイトスタリオン…ㇳ–ㇰ 23:16, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Mh, well, sometimes you learn something new about your country... it seems that Schüssel did indeed say something along the lines of "should consider all options, including NATO membership" in November 2001. Still, I do not consider this possibility noteworthy enough to mention it in the main article, which should give a short overview of Austrian politics; NATO membership is definitely not an important topic in Austrian politics at the moment. ;) ナイトスタリオン…ㇳ–ㇰ 23:26, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

You're right - doesn't fit into the article - not noteworthy enough. In reverting I just wanted to make the point that Schüssel etc. have several times advanced the idea to join NATO. I'll remove it from the article. Themanwithoutapast 23:54, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Just to add the information if it may ever be reverted. In the early times of the 2nd Republic the SPÖ was very strongly in favour to associate with the western allies. As a result they were the ones not realy happy that Austria promised to stay neutral in the negotiations with the USSR.

Where is Vienna?

I think the federal cpaital is not mentioned properly in this article. It should be obvious from the first paragraph that Austria Vienna is the capital —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.16.208.218 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, if you write "Austria Vienna" then it's not the Capital but a professional soccer team in Vienna ;-) --Reichsgauleiter Hansen 02:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Improvement drive

The article on Franz Kafka has been listed to be improved on Wikipedia: This week's improvement drive. Add your vote there if you want to support the article.--Fenice 06:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

{{Cleanup|date=March 2008}}

I have removed the cleanup tag from this article. It was put there by an editor who apparently hasn't seen the kind of articles that do need the tag; this article is neither ungrammatical nor poorly formatted nor confused. And, for what it's worth, there is no explanation on this talk page what should be cleaned up, either. Maybe {{Fact|date=March 2008}} (^{Citation needed}) or {{Dubious|date=March 2008}} ((disputed)

Dubious) would have fit the bill. Rl 06:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

• Someone vandalized this article, under "recent political developments." I usually don't mess with the editing side of Wikipedia, so I'm not sure what should be done with this. I leave it to you good people.--69.129.39.230 01:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Catholic

It is not entirely clear what Catholicism means in the section on religion. For instance, "the absolute monarchy of Habsburg imposed a strict regime to maintain Catholicism's power and influence among Austrians". I suppose that means "Roman Catholic Church", not "orthodox Christian church" or both. Same thing for "Catholic leaders such as Theodor Innitzer and Ignaz Seipel". Rl 18:07, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the context makes it clear that only Roman Catholicism can be meant. But maybe this is due to my Austrian preconceptions; to most Austrians it would probably never occur that anything else can be meant by the term. Martg76 22:33, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, though I'm also Austrian and can't really say what it sounds like to foreigners. What would you consider a clearer way of putting it, Rl? — File:Austria flag large.png ナイトスタリオン _ㇳ–ㇰ — 19:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Something doesn't seem completely unbiased in the part where the article points out the reasons on catholicism's diminishing numbers. To me it sounds like too many personal opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmcuervo (talk • contribs) 03:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the following section is misleading: Both these numbers have been on the decline for decades, especially Roman Catholicism, which has suffered an increasing number of seceders of the church. This is due partly to child sexual abuse scandals by priests' as well as the alleged unwillingness of the Roman Catholic Church to implement reforms. (emphasize by me) The part mentioning child sexual abuse scandals at least needs to be reformulated. Either the statement refers to sexual abuse scandals outside Austria (e.g. USA) or it refers to abuse scandals inside of it. Concerning the latter I am not aware of any other case than that of Cardinal Groër, who was removed by JPII because of sexual misconduct with teenagers. In both cases the statement as it stands gives an biased impression and should at least be reformulated. Gugganij 12:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Since no source for the alleged reasons for the decline of the number of Catholics in Austria were provided, I removed them. Gugganij 13:17, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Salzburg - map of the 9 federal states

At the pink map where the federal states of austria are shown, the boarder of federal state Salzburg (Number 5) is wrong:[2]
The right boarders are shown at the german Wikipedia site: [3] [4] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makea (talk • contribs) 19:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

That's true. I think this map shows the dioceses of Austria. the northeast of Tyrol is a part of the archdiocese of Salzburg.[5] --WmE 18:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, it does not really show the Austrian dioceses, since the eastern part of Lower Austria is part of the archdiocesis of Vienna, as can be seen in the fourth link. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 18:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Economy

"To meet increased competition from both EU and Central European countries, Austria will need to emphasize knowledge-based sectors of the economy, continue to deregulate the service sector, and lower its tax burden."

Was this pulled out of an IMF report? Doesn't seem appropriate to have judgements about what Austria needs to do in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winmax (talk • contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:German-speaking Wikipedians' notice board

This new notice board might be of interest to editors here. You can help with our current projects or ask for help with yours, and ask any related question on our talk page. Hope to see you there, Kusma (討論) 15:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

On the name of Austria

The name of Austria is partially explained on the main page. However, it only explains the German word/name Osterreich; and does not explain where the English word Austria comes from.

Do I take it that the English word is just a corruption of the German word? We can't say Osterreich properly so it came out as Austria? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter Judge (talk • contribs) 09:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The word "Austria" in Latin

When was the name "Austria" starting to get used in Latin? It is clearly not a calque of ostarrichi, and doesn't seem to be a direct borrowing of the High German word, could it have come from another Germanic dialect? For instance Old Norse "austr" (east) looks extremely similar. 惑乱 分からん 14:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

That i a bigquestıan. It could come from the pagan godness of Ostara from wich the name of easter and the rabbıt and the eastereggs are commig from,but itıspure unhıstorıc .Hıstoric is that their where the 3 commıtate ın the endtime of the roman empıre and that Laurıacum the today town of Enns survıved as a early crıstıan center north of the alps. Thıs area the bavarıan took and as they sah the Enns rıver as theır border to the east theycalled all wıtch they could cocer east of ıt Ostarıchı but as I said it could meen the realm of the godness Ostara or the Eastern Empire. İ would by instinkt as the Bavarian ( wıtch are Bohemian sucsessors of the Marcoannin trıbe and mıxed elements .. Langobards east germanıc elements) where pagan then that fırst ıs wrıght but ıt can never be proofed. J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.168.92 (talk • contribs) 10:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

On the origin of the name "Österreich"

Marc Bloch's Feudal Society has a more accurate account of how the Osterreich came to be the name of the german boundary in the alps and with eastern Europe. In the eleventh century (or tenth, can't really remember) Otto the Great sent two large garrisons to the southeastern borders of the empire to protect against Magyar assaults. There garrisons were called the "Eastern Command" or, for a simpler translation of the primitive german "ostaricki," the "East-Rule." The sense being conveyed would thus be "Eastern Regime," but only "command" really keeps the military reality of its origins in sight.

Given the modern term "Reich" and its uses, Austria is often mistaken by English scholars as being derived from "Eastern Empire;" though it goes much further than the primitive roots allow, it's still much more accurate than "Eastern Realm." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.85.63.18 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

It is tru that Österreich derives from "Ostarrîchi", a word used the first time in 996 to name this country. The LAtin translation Austria was used first around 1100 and does not mean Eastern Empire but Suthern Empire, like Australia, which means territory of the South. Why Southern Empire? Because, seen from the point of view of the Holy roman empire, Austria is situated in the south of the "Heart" of this Empire.

OTTOMAN EMPIRE ?

There is no article with Ottoman Empire. Ottoman Empire( Turks) ruled this country for 400 years. Nobody know this? Turks were defeated in Vienna. If they not, the Europe would be in danger, may be todays Europe would be never exist. Don't forget the History. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.240.33.154 (talk • contribs) 11:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

do not worry! Even if Ottomans had conquered all of Europe nothing would happen. If Ottomans had a similar colonialist attitude like Europeans (look at American continent, Australia and Africa) now half of Europe was speaking Turkish instead of Greek, Bulgarina, Romanina etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.214.151.23 (talk • contribs) 21:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Austria was ruled by the Ottoman Empire? Please have a second look into your favourite history book. Yes, the Ottomans tried to take over Vienna but failed twice (Vienna was quite fortunate that the reinforcements/relief came just in time - one day later would have been to late probably). They ruled over Austria? No, not to all I know and believe. Of course they got hold of some parts of eastern Austria in order to reach Vienna, but that does not mean they ruled Austria. Additionally, Vienna lies at the far east of Austria, so they only needed a narrow corridor to reach the capital. What you probably mean is that they got hold of some of the regions the Austrian Empire was ruling in the region of Balkan (now Serbia, Bosnia, etc.) Those were taken over by the Ottomans on their way from Istanbul to Vienna, but that regions were not part of Austria then and are not now. --Wirthi 09:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

i'd like to make the point that technically if part of Austria was ruled by the Ottoman empire than those parts would be part of the Ottoman empire and not Austria therefore the Ottomans did rule SOME of Austria. --alex medical services 00:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Why AUT?

Why exactly was AUT adopted as the 3-letter code? (I know AUS is Australia, and I think that AUT stands for Autriche, which is french for Austria, but I'm not sure) (131.130.121.106 19:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC))

As an Austrian I have never thought about that issue. Guess what you are saying is true; AUT will originally be derived from Autriche, the french name for Austria. I guess those 3-letter-codes were developed by the IOC in Geneva, making French the predominent Language. Check out Spain thats code is ESP from l'Espagne (or Spain: "España"?). --Wirthi 20:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe for the same reason that an A in a circle is the country symbol for Austrian vehicles. Though I hadn't thought about the French word—I figured it was from the English word.… — EncMstr 20:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It's just because "AUS" is already taken by "Australia". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.146.211 (talk • contribs) 22:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

{{{native_name}}}

Why does it say {{{native_name}}}? It should say Republik Österreich.--Sonjaaa 16:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

First Paragraph Parentheses

I just noticed that the opening parentheses in the first paragraph is never properly closed. Someone should probably fix that. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightfight (talk • contribs) 17:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This is a wiki, you can do that yourself! I have entered the character now ... --Wirthi 20:37, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

South Tyrol

A still nowadays very important and very problematic point was the loss of the German speaking South-Tyrol to Italy after WW I.
Thats not true and POV. Since 1972, when Austria and Italy finaly agreed about the autonomy statute of south tyrol only very few people got a problem with it and for sure neither the official Austria nor Italy. I will delte it.--85.124.233.216 03:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello. you are right. The Austrians did not want to have back South Tyrol. So therefore it's not a political topic anymore. --Reichsgauleiter Hansen 02:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

NATO - Membership

Hello folks! We should add a short notice that Austria is a neutral country and therefore not member of any international military organization (NATO) execpt EURFOR (=EU-Force).

Please do add it. This is very important. Your friendly Reichsgauleiter Hansen 01:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Volksgruppenpolitik

Does anyone think that there is far too much space devoted to this? I think it would be more appropriate if all the information concerning the rights of slovenes were moved to Demographics of Austria. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Motekker (talk • contribs) 04:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, as an Austrian I can tell you it's been one of the most political issues in the past five years, and has been an issue since we became independent... I don't think it's too much, personally. —Nightstallion (?) 11:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

belief in God

i would appreciate if you could tell me where you found the info about belief in God in Europe. thank you --alex medical services 00:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

it is in german - but the link is in the article - there is a table with % if you scroll down [6]. Themanwithoutapast 20:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

austria userbox

This user idolizes Austria, he has been 3 times in Austria and still wants more!

--Ifeldman84 19:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

official languages

The infobox shows several official languages, but English isn't there. I've heard from dozens, maybe a hundred Austrians, they have to study at least four years of English in school. Traveling in remote parts of Austria is considerably easier than Germany for me since most Austrians' English is better than my German. Should English be listed as officially required? Or is that not done anymore? 71.193.192.51 21:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we have to study English but it's not an official language. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.178.146.211 (talk • contribs) .

Right. Just that many people have to learn it doesn't make it an official language of the nation. --Wirthi 17:54, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Any idea why there is a requirement to study English? Why not French or Italian instead? — EncMstr 19:39, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, mainly because English is mentioned in the curriculum ;-) Of course many schools offer other languages; for example in most Grammar schools you can choose between French and Latin (and sometimes others as Spanisch or Russian). At least one of those is usually obligatory starting in 7th grade, the other in 9th grade. Why English: well, check List of languages by number of native speakers and remember that English _is_ the most common language to use when two people from totally different cultures meet. --Wirthi 10:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

In fact you have to choose both Latin and French in grammer schools. One language in the 7rd grade the other in the 9th grade. Furthermore you can (it's compulsory) choose one so called Wahlpflichtfach e.g. Italian, Spanish, Russian or sports in the 11th grade. -- WmE 22:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Non-standard and potentially POV map should be reverted

The map for this country has recently been changed to a format which is not standard for Wikipedia. Each and every other country identifies that country alone on a contintental or global map; none of them highlight other members of relevant regional blocs or other states which which that country has political or constitutional links. The EU is no different in this respect unless and until it becomes a formal state and replaces all other states which are presently members; the progress and constitutional status of the EU can be properly debated and identified on the page for that organisation; to include other members of the EU on the infobox map for this country is both non-standard and potentially POV.

Please support me in maitaining Austria's proper map (in Wikipedia standard) until we here have debated and agreed this issue? Who is for changing the map and who against? The onus is on those who would seek to digress from Wiki standard to show why a non-standard and potentially POV map should be used. Austria deserves no less! JamesAVD 15:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This user has decided to remove references to the EU from the page of every member state. See his talk page for more details. yandman 15:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not discuss here, but at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries so a uniform decision can be reached. Kusma (討論) 15:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The users above are misrepresnting my actions. Certain non-standard items have been included in the infoboxes of the pages of some European states. I have removed the undiscussed and unsupported changes and started a discussion here on the best way forward. I have in no way 'removed references to the EU'! The EU is an important part of the activities of the governmenance of many European states, to the benefit of all. That does not mean that an encyclopedia should go around presenting potentially POV information of the constitutional status of the EU in the infoboxes of states which are supposed to be standardised across Wikipedia. I'm interested in what users here feel? JamesAVD 15:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not trying to say anything about your actions. All I'm saying is that this discussion is not very much relevant for the Austria page and should be held at a central place instead. As you have started this thread on many country pages, I am only trying to direct discussion about the issues you raise to the correct places. Kusma (討論) 15:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

No, Kusma, you had been suggesting way back that the (very thin) discussion on that page, out of the sight of the many contributors to the country pages involved, was sufficient to override the Wiki standard which should be changed by broad discussion. You were naming this page long before the point where I made this problem known to the contributors of all of the relevant pages. It would be more efficient if all contibuted to a discussion on that page but in all likelihood individuals will want to contribute on the talk page of the relevant country. They should feel free to do so. Please also, if you have a strong opinion, join in this debate. JamesAVD 16:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

PLEASE DISCUSS THIS AT Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries#Location Maps for European countries-- discussion continues as it involves more than just this country.

Thanks, —MJCdetroit 20:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Neighboring countries

Hi, I want to point out a factual error on the page, at the bottom, there's this box with neighbors organized by cardinal directions. Slovenia and Slovakia are swapped on it. If I knew how to edit it, I would have :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.16.248 (talk • contribs) 09:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

EDIT: Nevermind, figured it out :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.16.248 (talk • contribs) 09:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Austria Project

There now is a proposed WikiProject for Austria at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Austria. Any editors interested should add their names there and we will see if there is enough interest to began the project in earnest. Badbilltucker 21:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Word "windische"

Hi, the following scentence is wrong.. "To the latter group the term "Windische" (originally the German word for Slovenians) "... The word "windische" is not used for slovenians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.178.227.95 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You are wrong. It is used for Slovenians in Austria. As reference I can only give you the german wikipedia-atricle de:Windisch --Wirthi 21:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Isn't the argument that it used to be the term for Slovenes? My understanding is that, in old German, "Wends" were peoples living to the east of the Germanic peoples (usually Slavs), and "Welsh" were people to the west (Latins or Celts). john k 16:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Name

Why is Austria's name in Hungarian and Czech given? Surely they arent national languages??--WoodElf 07:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the Czech Republic (and Slovenia) was once part of Austria. So, sort of, was Hungary. But it seems unnecessary for the intro. But giving the name for Austria in all 11 languages of the old monarchy might be worthwhile somewhere. john k 16:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

No, no, I think the reason is that there are ethnic minorities of Czech and Slovenians in Austria and therefore, their language have some official status. For background details on population and politics, see also this private website on Austria. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.8.104 (talk) 17:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Only Slovenian and Croatian are official languages (and German of course), not Hungarian or Czech. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.119.2.133 (talk) 15:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite

I will come back and rewrite and expand more of the article. Reference examples are articles on Sweden or GErmany. Themanwithoutapast 11:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Anthem

The Anthem is not called "Land der Berge, Land am Strome", this is just the first line.
In Books, it is called "Österreichische Bundeshymne".
The Anthem is based on KV 425 by Mozart with words by Paula Preradovic. --Helmut Gründlinger 20:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Austria's full name

Austria's full name is Bundesrepublik Österreich (Federal Republic of Austria), not just Republik Österreich (Republic of Austria). For reference one need only take a glimpse at an Austrian passport. Danke! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.153.8.3 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you have a different passport but mine displays "Republik Österreich". It is true that Austria IS a "Bundesrepublik", but the official name is without any doubt "Republik Österreich". [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] --Wirthi 01:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have just seen that somebody has written that the anthem is "Land der Keller" - this cant possibly be right. I think that the same person has written that Joaeph Fritzel is the president - Seems like somebody has been havin fun... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.24.88.239 (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

What was the capital of Austria before 1156?

In the "Babenberg" article of Wikipedia, it says "Austria, the capital of which had been transferred to Vienna in 1156, was elevated into a duchy in the Privilegium Minus." Fruthermore, the original fief, as well as the first Margravate, did not extend to Vienna (rather 60 miles only from the Bavarian border). Was it that the Austrian Margravate simply did not have a Capital? or was it Passau, because Vienna had to wait until 1469 before becoming a separate diocese? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SayKay (talk • contribs) 17:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

No, before 1156, the capitals were Pöchlarn and Melk near the Danube and approx. 80 km in the west of Vienna. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.119.171.91 (talk) 15:06, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

On the WikiProject Countries talk page, the section Location Maps for European countries had shown new maps created by David Liuzzo, that are available for the countries of the European continent, and for countries of the European Union exist in two versions. From November 16, 2006 till January 31, 2007, a poll had tried to find a consensus for usage of 'old' or of which and where 'new' version maps. Please note that since January 1, 2007 all new maps became updated by David Liuzzo (including a world locator, enlarged cut-out for small countries) and as of February 4, 2007 the restricted licence that had jeopardized their availability on Wikimedia Commons, became more free. At its closing, 25 people had spoken in favor of either of the two presented usages of new versions but neither version had reached a consensus (12 and 13), and 18 had preferred old maps.
As this outcome cannot justify reverting of new maps that had become used for some countries, seconds before February 5, 2007 a survey started that will be closed soon at February 20, 2007 23:59:59. It should establish two things:

• whether the new style maps may be applied as soon as some might become available for countries outside the European continent (or such to depend on future discussions),
• which new version (with of without indicating the entire European Union by a separate shade) should be applied for which countries.

Please read the discussion (also in other sections α, β, γ, δ, ε, ζ, η, θ) and in particular the arguments offered by the forementioned poll, while realizing some comments to have been made prior to updating the maps, and all prior to modifying the licences, before carefully reading the presentation of the currently open survey. You are invited to only then finally make up your mind and vote for only one option.
There mustnot be 'oppose' votes; if none of the options would be appreciated, you could vote for the option you might with some effort find least difficult to live with - rather like elections only allowing to vote for one of several candidates. Obviously, you are most welcome to leave a brief argumentation with your vote. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 19 Feb2007 00:41 (UTC)

Crime

I cant find anything about crime in this. the country has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and murder rates. it averges 100 murders a year which is very low considering baltimores averge murder rate is 312 a years

Baltimore is in the USA, that's why. SCNR. You are right, somebody should write about this topic. But, it is not even mentioned in the article about Austria in the german-speaking wikipedia. --Wirthi 15:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

nznlxznln

We got 5-10 murders in Austria —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.208.219.69 (talk) 22:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I am from Vienna, we have got at least 5 murders in Vienna a year. I read in an website maybe 2 years ago, that Vienna have about 30 murders a year. I cannot prove it. But I read somewhere that Slovenia (not Slovakia) is the most secure country in the world, regarding murder rate, and Austria the second most secure of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cantabo07 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The Austrian crime statistic says, that there were 48 murders in 2006. (That seem to be the newest numbers) And about 20 of these murders happen in Vienna each year (2007: 19). In 2006 there were 17 in Vienna (35,4 %). --85.124.59.242 (talk) 17:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Exception to the Lineage of Habsburgs

Who was the only ruler of the Holy Roman Empire who was not a Habsburg? This article mentions that but does not reference him or her (probably a him :)).

BaileytheDog 19:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• I think that would be Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 20:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Until 1278 (Rudolf I.), the Holy Roman empire was never ruled by any Habsburg Prince, from 1278 to 1438 (Albrecht V.) partly, and definitevely since 1438 (until 1804 (Franz II./I.)). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.119.2.133 (talk) 16:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

A 'mythical' country?!

When reading this article the other day, it came to my attention that Austria had been defined as a 'mythical' country. I don't know what joker wrote that! I proceeded to delete the offending word.

Austrian emperors as "German Monarchs"?!?

In 1804 the Austrian Empire was founded by Franz II./I., while the Deutscher Bund (1815-1866) was just a lose confederation of germanspeaking countries. Regardless of this, some (german) users would like to call the AUSTRIAN emporers of that time to be "German Monarchs". See the discussion here:

• Template talk:Monarchs of Germany 1806-1918
• Talk:List of German monarchs

-- Rfortner 01:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Content revision

---

The third paragraph concerning the 19th century period of Austria is in need of some revision. There are some redundant statements, broken sentences and an explanation of events reminiscent of a junior high history essay. While the rest of the article is easily read, the grammar and sentence structure of that particular paragraph is difficult to digest. I would edit it myself, had I understood what I read in that paragraph. Perhaps someone who is knowledgable of that era could sort and reorganize that jumble of words.

History between 1938 and 1945

There seems to be no history in Austria during WW-II. Was there a war in this country? Was it bombed? Were people killed? Did the Soviet Army invade it?

Eierschwammerl

Doing some research, it seems to me that the 'Eierschwammerl' mentioned in the section about Austrian cuisine is simply good ol' chanterelle mushrooms. Could this be verified/edited?

Yes, Eierschwammerl is the Austrian word for the German word Pfifferling which is in English called chanterelle, their latin name is Cantharellus cibarius as you can see in the germanspeaking wikipedia: de:Eierschwammerl. Which edit do you want to do? (and why dont you sign your posting?) -- Rfortner 09:22, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Population discrepancies

The infobox says:

2006 estimate 8,199,783 (92nd)

The Demographics section says:

Austria's population estimate in October 2006 was 8,292,322.

Then, the List of countries by population says:

Austria 8,361,000 UN estimate

Furthermore, the Austria article ranks Austria as 92nd by population, the list of countries ranks it 93rd. This is a bit of a mess, to say the least.

What's the source, and what does the source say? Steevm 13:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, the source is the problem here. It depends if you ask the UN, the EU, the Austrian federal goverment, the 9 states, .... => all will report different values, based on different ways of counting. The most official values will be found on http://www.statistik.gv.at/, the "Federal bureau of statistics" (my translation). They report 8.298.923 inhabitants on 1.1.2007 [14] (value at the bottom-left, "insgesamt" (overall), "2007"). --Wirthi 20:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Facts about the founding of the II. Republic of Austria

An anonymus IP (87.112.10.251) tries since some days to state absolutely wrong information about Karl Renner and the founding of the II. Republic of Austria:

1) First Mr. Anonymus tried to state, that Karl Renner started to set up a new government from western Austria, which was quite impossible as Renner survived the NS-Regime in Gloggnitz near to the Semmering and then he moved back to Vienna.

2) Also Mr. Anonymus tries to revert Austrian history by saying that Renner was out of the reach of the red army. Quite the contrary is true: It was the Red Army who SEARCHED for him in Gloggnitz and immediatly brought him to Vienna, as - furtunately for Austria - Stalin was personaly impressed by Renner whom he allready knew as one of the founder of the I. Republic of Austria in 1918/1919 (even when Stalin knew the border between Socialdemocrats like Renner and Communists, and - funny enough - the Austrian Communist Party KPÖ was AGAINST the reactivation of Renner). But allready in 1943 after the Moscow Declaration it was obvious, that the Soviets - like the other allies - had special plans for Austria and therefore kindly ignored most of the responsibility of Austrians between 1938 and 1945, especially with a quite friendly interpretation of the occurences during the Anschluss in 1938.

3) So let us come to the facts (and I am quite far away from supporting Communists or Soviet point of views, but I am quite serious about Austrian history and one has to be fair):

• After the Vienna Offensive, the red army had finally liberated Vienna from the Nazis on the 13th April 1945 (also with some support of Austrian members of the Wehrmacht like Major Carl Szokoll who had started the Operation Radetzky to hand over Vienna to the Soviets in a gentle way without to many deaths. The occurences in Budapest where a reason, why they did so. So they told the Soviets, where and how they should enter the city. Their plan - more or less - worked, but some of them like Biedermann, Huth and Raschke where exposed and hanged by the Nazi-Army which was allready on their pullback to North during the last days of the Vienna Offensive ).
• Afterwards the Soviets advanced till Semmering so they also reached Gloggnitz.
• Allready on the 4th April 1945, Renner had met the Soviet command in their base in Hochwolkersdorf, not far away from the Semmering.
• After the Soviets had finally liberated Vienna on the 13th April 1945, things moved forward quite quickly: Between the 14th and the 17th April, the former Austrian parties reestablished themself in Vienna (First the Social-Democrats SPÖ, the party of Karl Renner, on the 14th April). Renner arrived in Vienna on the 21st April 1945 and immediatly formed - with the approval of the Soviets who had military controll over eastern Austria - a provisorial government within one week. The government was formed from three parties: SPÖ (Social-Democrats); ÖVP (Conservatives) and KPÖ (Communists). On the 27th April 1945, the provisional government proclaimed the Indipency of Austria ("Proklamation über die Selbständigkeit Österreichs vom 27. April 1945", Staatsgesetzblatt Nr. 1/1945). The proclamation was signed by Karl Renner and the leaders of the three parties SPÖ, ÖVP and KPÖ. All this happened in Vienna and under the kindly approval of the Soviets (which was more a tactical question for the Soviets, as they had quite special plans for Austria which leaded to the Austrian State Treaty and the Declaration of Neutrality in 1955).
• While all this happened in Vienna in April 1945, most of Austria was still occupied by the Nazis, as the Western allies troups had only reached Tyrol. After the end of war (on the 8th May 1945) the western allies where quite reserved toward the new Austrian government as they allready knew, that Stalin himself had authorised Renner. But during 1945, one after one of them finally accepted the new government as they realised, that Renner was just a quite clever diplomat and not a special friend of Stalin ;-)

These are the facts about April 1945 in Austra. So, Mr. Anonymus, can you see that Renner was not in "Western Austria ... acting beyond the reach of the Red Army"? Can you therefore see, that your edits and reverts about this part of Austrian history where (and still are) simply wrong? -- Rfortner 12:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Motto

The page gives: "Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube." - "Others may fight wars,but you - lucky Austria - marry!" as the country's motto. I don't think this is correct. It is more of a saw or saying than a motto. A motto is a saying that expresses the guiding principles of something or someone. Austria does not nowadays try to live by the motto of 'Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube'. It is just an expression that came up at a time in history when Austria became powerful through successful marriage politics and hence didn't need to fight wars to enhance its political power, and which is still very familiar. 217.7.226.160 10:34, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was also surprised when reading this as a "motto" of Austria. It was a motto (and policy) of the Habsburger, but it cannot be called the motto of nowadays Austria. -- Rfortner 12:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

You'r right. I have removed it. --Wirthi 14:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think only motto Austria ever had was: AEIOU, standig for: Austria est imperare orbi universo, which means: Austria is to rule over the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.119.171.91 (talk) 15:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

dude

sup cool people here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.222.226 (talk) 00:05, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Austrofascism and the Third Reich

I see that Special:Contributions/69.129.41.90 has deleted this entire section of this article. I'm not well versed enough in Austrian history to know if this edit was a net positive to this page or a net negative. Your thoughts? Merenta 16:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Official name

Today, I reverted to Republic of Austria / Republik Österreich, removing

Republika Avstrija

Republika Austria

Osztrák Köztársaság

I can only assume that these are the names in Slovenian, Croatian and Hungarian, respectively. And while it is true that those minority groups have some rights as to the usage of their language, it does not make much sense to use them in an English article. The official name of the republic remains "Republik Österreich", minority right notwithstanding. Greil 08:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Do we need protection?

I am open to arguments, but I would timidly suggest to protect this article against changes by anonymous users. I've seen a lot of vandalism lately. None of which, luckily, remained uncorrected for a few hours, but still. Opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.40.161.64 (talk) 06:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Talk about irony... 62.40.161.64 = Greil, but of course I am on a different computer now, and need my password mailed to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.40.161.64 (talk) 07:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, judging from the history, a protection would be good... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michelle192837 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

incomplete sentence

"The German-Hungarian rule of this diverse empire, which included, (long list of groups)" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robcat2075 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The inclusion of Kosovo

I am going to resume with the inclusion of Kosovo in the maps of the countries that have formally accepted/recognised their independence. Bardhylius (talk) 17:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Two map optional display

Hello Austria!!! I have something that may interest contributers for this page. In a nut shell, it allows the option to display two maps in your info box, one could be a close up of Austria, and another would be Austria in a wider European or EU context. This is an example that was being discussed on Scotland's talk page (though I think they have rejected a two map option). Prior to now no one knew that you could have two maps displayed in the info box. For 'smallish' counties the benifits are easy to graps, an up-close view of the country, and a wider contextual visualisation of the country. Dydd da!!

PS: This is an example from the Scotland page, please do not be offended that I display the Scotland info box here. It is only ment as an example.

Scotland  (English / Scots) Alba  (Gaelic)
Flag Royal Coat of Arms
Motto: [Nemo me impune lacessit] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help)  (Latin) "No one provokes me with impunity" "Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh"   (Scottish Gaelic) '"Wha daur meddle wi me?"'  (Scots)1
Anthem: (Multiple unofficial anthems)
Location of Austria (orange) in the United Kingdom (camel)
Location of Austria (orange) in the European Union (camel)
Capital	Edinburgh
Largest city	Glasgow
Official languages	English
Recognised regional languages	Gaelic, Scots1
Demonym(s)	Scot, Scots and Scottish²
Government	Constitutional monarchy
ISO 3166 code	GB-SCT

TfD nomination of Template:Germanic-speaking regions of Europe

Template:Germanic-speaking regions of Europe has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Janneman (talk) 16:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Please give your opinion about Proposal II which will define Central Europe

Give your support or opposition at the Central Europe talk page, since we are looking for a single definition for it. It's very important. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 17:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all that participated and gave their opinion on Proposal II.

Proposal II was approved, 13 editors supported it and 5 editors opposed it. Proposal II is now in effect and it redefined Central Europe. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 23:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Someone swapped Austria with Australia, such childish actions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morituri230 (talk • contribs) 01:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

It's part of a stupid troll attempt from 4chan's /b/. You know that Austrian dude that just got done for raping his own daughter in their cellar for 24 years and having 7 kids? Yeah, they think it'd be funny to say that he was AustrALian. Instead of Austrian. It's pretty second-rate, even for /b/. It's just been done again, btw. They copypasta'd the text from the Australia entry and edited instances of the word "Australia" to read "Austria". I say revert then protect the entry. Otherwise this shit is going to keep happening.

4chan /b/'s little troll-fest.

So the article keeps being either redirected to Australia, or vandalized so that it contains the large bulk of information FROM the Australian article. It's part of a rather pathetic troll attempt by /b/, against... /b/, itself - linked to the current news event of that guy raping his daughter for 24 years, etc. In AUSTRIA. They think it would be funny to say it was Australia instead, and then try to say that both countries are actually the same country, citing that "Australia" is what people native to Austria call their country, whereas everyone else calls it "Austria" ("Deutschland" vs "Germany", basically). If the article could be reverted back to it's correct state and then somehow edit-locked or something so the little fags can't get their jollies anymore, that would be fantastic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.66.159 (talk • contribs)

Well it seems the page got semi-protected. I think it should be unprotected at the earliest reasonable opportunity. In cases of organised disruption like this, it is more important not to feed the trolls. In the case of /b/, the intentions are to cause disruption regardless of the venue, so we need to make Wikipedia as uninviting a target as possible. Patient but prompt reverting is much less satisfying to the trolls than slapping a padlock sign on the page, which implies they have achieved the attention they crave. BigBlueFish (talk) 17:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

A numismatic sub-section

Hi, I was wondering if it worth to mention a couple of sentences within the economy section about a numismatics subsection. I was thinking of a couple of lines referencing to the articles Austrian euro coins and Euro gold and silver commemorative coins (Austria). Any thoughts? Miguel.mateo (talk) 04:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)