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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Serpren (talk | contribs) at 01:56, 4 June 2008 (→Reason for edit). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Reason for edit

  • "a leading Cornish historian" and "well known." Without proper citations this is opinion. Such PoV is not accepatble on Wikipedia. Changing to "a Cornish historian" avoids this, and is quite an acceptable description. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.30.72 (talk) 03:14, 7th January 2008 (UTC)


As far as I am aware, Mr Wilton is not an academic, and has no qualification or standing as "a historian."Serpren (talk) 07:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The words leading Cornish Historian originate from from an article in Cornish World Magazine. I don't speak for Mr Angarrack and know nothing on his educational qualifications, but after a quick 'Google' I found the following on the Cornish World website. Talskiddy 17:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The director of Cornwall 2000 John Angarrack, a leading historian and Cornish human rights campaigner, is supportedby a group of well-informed Cornish activists. What, why, how? Cornwall 2000 is a catalyst and a dedicated campaign group in many areas of Cornish self-determination. These include the right to self identify as Cornish and the more formal implementation of the Charter for the Cornish Language. Since the specific exclusion of the Cornish by the Government from the Council of Europe Framework Convention forthe Protection of National Minorities, Cornwall 2000 has worked tirelessly to achieve equality of treatment for the Cornish. John Angarrack published Our Future is History, the backbone text to Cornish constitutional issues in 2002.

"Cornwall 2000" no longer exists, if it ever did, and does has no web presence outside of Wikipedia. I don't think an uncredited article, with no sources, such as the "Cornish World" one can be used as a defining measuere of one's standing as a "leading historian".

The words leading historian were edited out of the wikipedia article several weeks ago. I only included the article from Cornish World (above) to illustrate where the reference originally came frome.(talk) 10:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Surely some peer reviewed publications, not vanity published books, or articles in biased magazines, are necessary for someone to earn this distinction?Serpren (talk) 06:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would it help to have a quote from Bernard Deacon's book? Bernard Deacon is a reputable academic and his book, Cornwall: the Concise History, is published by an academic press of some standing. Bernard Deacon evaluates Angarrack as a campaigner rather than as an historian. Anagarrack has a distinct POV in his writings. However his view of the history of Cornwall from a Cornish viewpoint has proved influential and achieved remarkable sales. It should not be dismissed as "vanity". Vernon White . . . Talk 14:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not dismissing his publishings as a work of vanity. Vanity publishing is where the author pays to have his work published, and hopes to recoup his expenditure from the sales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_press

When the book is non fiction, or purports to be of an academic nature, then if a reputable publisher can not be found to publish it some resort to vanity publishing.Serpren (talk) 05:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference between vanity publishing and self publishing. DuncanHill (talk) 10:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the difference is that a vanity publication has little or no hope of recovering the cost of publication. This is not the case with Angarrack's publications, which seem to hold their value in the second hand market. Vernon White . . . Talk 19:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair points. Should it be noted if a book is self published then, rather than published by a recognised academic publisher?Serpren (talk) 04:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any evidence that "Independent Academic Press" of Padstow is actually Angarrack alone and not a group of sponsors? If so, please add your note. It should, however, be fairly obvious that this imprint is not in any way equivalent in authority to a publishing house associated with a recognised university. Vernon White . . . Talk 09:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I have no idea to be frank whether Angarrack paid out of his own pocket, or had a whip round down the pub to get this published. But surely, as your last point states, any publication claiming to hold fact or authority on its subject would be published by a mainstream publisher at least, or an academic publisher at best.

As it stands we have no way of judging the authenticity of the publisher or Angarracks publications. 04:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Serpren (talk • contribs)

However, anyone can draw conclusions from the absence of IAP from Google searches. I suggest that we close this discussion. Vernon White . . . Talk 09:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. (However, I have just published a book "self publishingas an art form", on my home computer, and do consider myself a respected Cornish author and authority on the subject!)Serpren (talk) 01:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haslar

If a citation for the Punk/Haslar period is not forthcoming soon, it should be deleted. Vernon White . . . Talk 07:24, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed <ref>[http://www.justcornish.com/new_store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=667 Our Future is History]</ref> which no longer links to an opportunity to purchase the book online. Vernon White . . . Talk 19:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[1] removed. This is just a ScotNat view on MK with no additional info on Angarrack. Vernon White . . . Talk 19:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<ref>[http://cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk//resources//article.php?story=2007012919440015 John Angarrack fights for Judicial review of policy towards the Cornish]</ref> removed as it does not give the specific information stated on the link label. Vernon White . . . Talk 19:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Publisher

I can find no information online for either the "Independent Academic Press" or "Cornish Stannary Publications". If these books are "vanity published" then it should be noted.Serpren (talk) 07:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the new book is also published by Independent Academic Press. Amazon hasn't heard of this publisher. Doesn't look as if they have published any other titles. Vernon White . . . Talk 20:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See also references

Which of the following actually help the user find out about John Angarrack?

  • List of topics related to Cornwall
  • Celtic nations
  • Cornish Assembly
  • Cornish self-government movement
  • Constitutional status of Cornwall
  • Cornish people
  • Culture of Cornwall
  • Gorseth Kernow
  • The Song of the Western Men

Vernon White . . . Talk 20:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trimmed by User:Talkiddy. Vernon White . . . Talk 06:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cornwall 2000

The artcle on Cornwall 2000 could also do with some attention. Vernon White . . . Talk 23:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Scottish Independence website
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