Talk:Congressional Black Caucus

This article is one sided, all it does is praise the CBC, it does nothing to address any critism

Untrue, it quotes J C Watts. Adam 03:26, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but thats only one line and it gives no reason why for the Watts quote. I think it needs a critism section.

So go find some. Anonymous critics who do no research themselves generally get ignored, and rightly so. Adam 03:20, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NPOV

I personally feel that the last two paragraphs of prose are not quite NPOV and should not be included in the article. As you know and as you can plainly see by the comments already left on this talk page, the CBC is a source of controversy, and quotes that blindly praise it's existence and work should be left out, as they serve no purpose but to promote the CBC as a body. The paragraphs in question are:

Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas said in 2001: "The Congressional Black Caucus is one of the world's most esteemed bodies, with a history of positive activism unparalleled in our nation's history. Whether the issue is popular or unpopular, simple or complex, the CBC has fought for thirty years to protect the fundamentals of democracy. Its impact is recognized throughout the world.

-and-

"The Congressional Black Caucus is probably the closest group of legislators on the Hill. We work together almost incessantly, we are friends and, more importantly, a family of freedom fighters. Our diversity makes us stronger, and the expertise of all of our members has helped us be effective beyond our numbers."

These are further unnecessary because the paragraph above is a "praising" statment by one of the CBC members, and I think that this is more then enough, especially since there is only one mention of critism. I have removed these quotes for the time being. --Gpyoung ^talk 03:37, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And I have restored them. As I said above, you are free to add negative quotes if you can find some. Adam 04:58, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is not about balencing positive with negitive, this is about removing blind praise and obvious promotion. It contributes nothing positive to the article, nor would adding in "negitiive" quotes. The article is supposed to explain the topic, not be a collection of quotes for or against it. I also do not appreciate your seemingly arrogant attitude towards this critisim. I have tried to present you with my reasoning and my rational the change I made, but instead of reesponding in kind, the best you can say is "And I have restored them". I find that offensive as someone who is not insulting you or your work, but trying to improve it for the better, as is the spirit of Wikipedia.

GPY, that is simply incorrect. NPOV is not achieved by removing material, unless no-one believes the assertions made or they cannot be attributed. That is not the case here. Mr. Jones 19:52, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV is in referal to information provided as fact by Wikipedia. Items directly labled as the opinions or quotes of notable people are NPOV. To quote directly, "Wikipedia policy is that all articles should be written from a neutral point of view: without bias, representing all majority- and significant-minority views fairly." Reporting a quote from someone is representing a majority or minority view. You may add quoteations or detail information on views held by others if you wish. --Barberio 20:24, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it can be agreed that quotes can be used in a way that obviously supports a particular POV, especially when they are not balanced opposing quotes. As I said before, I firmly believe that a string of quotes that blindly praise something/someone certainly can promote a POV. I believe that NPOV can be extended to say that articles must be neutral in voice, making excessive positive quotations unnecessary. The question here is are the above quotes excessive, and I believe that they are. However, for the sake of maintaining civility, I will not press that point of deletion further, instead I intend the reqrite portions of this article and make a distinct "Praise" section and an equally in-depth "Critisim" section.

--Gpyoung ^talk 02:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A single quote can not be considered a series of 'excessive positive quotations', your objection is baseless. Feel free to create a praise and critisim section, which is what you should have done in the first place if you felt it was unbalenced. If you feel that the Wikipedia NPOV guidelines as quoted are incorect, I sugest you start finding consensus support to alter them. --Barberio 10:36, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It would follow from this that if no-one has ever said anything negative about a subject, then no-one can be quoted saying anything positive about it, since there is then no "balance." Adam 11:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That is not what I am trying to say, please do not take my comments in an over-literal way. If a subject is controversial, as the CBC is, there are always going to be vocal views from both sides of the issue. In an article, it is important to give credence to both of them and not over-quote one standpoint. As I said before, I do not wish to resurrect this conflict, rather I am going to try and imporve the article while leaving the quotes in place. --Gpyoung ^talk 17:06, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]