Talk:Dwarfism

Remove Gary Coleman?

I think Gary Coleman should be removed from this list, he was born with a congenital kidney disease causing nephritis (an autoimmune destruction of the kidney), which halted his growth at an early age. He does not have Dwarfism. If you knew a good midget. Danrduggan

The Little People of America (LPA) defines dwarfism as a medical or genetic condition that usually results in an adult height of 4'10" (147 cm) or shorter. --86.135.126.195 (talk) 05:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

I think we need a few more images detailing a few different forms of dwarfism, the only image is a Velaquez portrait Angryafghan 11:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree I came here to educate my younger sister about the diferences and everyone shows the same pictures. I want people to know and understand that there is many different kinds of forms of dwarfism. Not all people diagnosed with it look the same. Pictures should be added. -Unsigned

The picture of Gimli should be removed from the main page. This is a mythical character (in addition to being a CGI shrunk image of an average sized actor). Dwarves, as invented by Tolkein, is not the same as dwarfs, the real medical condition. Tslug 00:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)Bill Bradford

Contradiction?

"Many of the conditions are associated with disordered function of other organs, such as brain or liver (although this is rare). These problems can be more disabling than the abnormal bone growth."

I don't know. The preceding line is a little contradictory. Why not replace "many" with "some", so it sounds better? I don't know anything about midgets, but I don't think this really makes any sense. -Unsigned

I can't say whether that's true, but it isn't contradictory. There's a clear difference between the number of conditions and their prevalence.

Limb lengthening

I've actually had my limbs lengthened. I got 11" in my legs and 4" in my arms. I just made some edits. Please don't link to the shortsupport page, it talks about limb lengthening for consitutional short stature and condemns it (rightly so). However, people may get confused and think he is condemning people like me with clinical short stature. What's with hte popularity in china comment? What kind of neurosurgical operations would a midget need? I've never heard of that. Oh and for emphasis, it's LIMB lengthening not LEG lengthening. They lengthen your arms and legs. Midgets like me have short legs and arms. Although we have a big head, ass and trunk to compensate. -Nathan J. Yoder 06:29, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits. -Unsigned

1. I agree, limb lengthening is the more commonly used term, though some people just have their legs done.
2. The link to shortsupport is a compendium of topics and aids for a variety of types of shortness with many good links. It was the best I found when I went looking. Why would you delete it just because it editorializes in a way you partially agree with? I hope you don't have a problem with my replacing it. If you want to add a critical comment to the citation, that might be a good compromise.
3. In several forms of chrondrodystrophy, the spinal canal is too narrow, or the junction at the base of the skull is misshapen in a way that can cause problems. Neurosurgeons correct these problems as often or more often than orthopedists.
4. If you feel inspired, we could use an article on limb lengthening.

Thanks for your contributions. Alteripse 15:48, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

1. I haven't met a midget that had their legs, but not arms done. The arms are so much easier than the legs and you are much more functional during the procedure that cost would be the only reason not to get it done. However, it is true that some people of constitutional short stature and with different sized limbs would just get the legs done.
2. Short support is a good website. My problem was that it was critical of limb lengthening for people of constitutional short stature. Constitutional short stature means people who are short, like 5' tall, but they don't have a clinical short stature like Achondroplasia which causes people to be around 4'. For people 5' the operation is ridiculous, but not for those with clinical short stature. I e-mailed the site owner a while back and he agreed with me that it's good for clinical short stature, but he wanted to keep up the warning to deter people of constitutional short stature form doing it. My concern is that people would confuse his critcism of lengthening for those of constitutional short stature with those of clinical short stature. Short support can be linked to the main page, but if you're going to link to the lengthening section I agree that a clarification should be added.
3. The China stat seemed very odd to me. My surgeon is one of the (if not THE) most prominent limb lengthening surgeon in the world. People come from all around the world to see him.
4. I may do a limb lengthening article. It would also cover corrective procedures involved with the same devices, it's not jsut for dwarves.

Nathan J. Yoder 17:58, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Verne paragraph

I added a short paragraph on Verne Troyer, basically because he's currently one of the most famous little people in the world. I don't mean any offense by having him the only little person mentioned by name in the article (not counting any of the authors who may be short statured). I just didn't want to expand this into a general section on / list of little actors (not right now, anyway). If this bothers you, please add more info about other famous little people. - dcljr 08:09, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Dick Levy

Can anyone determine if Dick Levy has dwarfism? He's short, but I didn't find any Internet references to his being a little person. func(talk) 20:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's part of a smear campaign. See User:Kmccoy/Delfino. kmccoy (talk) 05:37, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Height cut-offs

Is there any agreed-upon set of heights below which people would be considered Little People, as opposed to just short? Whether there is or isn't, I think it should be mentioned in the article. What cut-off should we use for the list of famous people? Misterwindupbird 01:39, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is. The LPA (Little People of America) defines an LP as a person standing 4'10" or shorter. Wandering Star 17:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

P.C. Terminology

I expanded the stub quickly and it would benefit from others' additions or refinements. If someone prefers to separate this into two articles, go ahead.

My memory nags me that I have missed some books and movies--- please add. However, I purposely avoided listing movies or books which feature a single dwarf buffoon or villain and tried to list those which someone might actually read or watch especially for their treatment of this topic: (1) dwarfism itself is a major theme of the work, realistically or not, or (2) many of the actors display various forms of dwarfism. If you feel compelled to list movies or tv shows with one humorous or villainous dwarf as a one-dimensional accessory character, please add a new paragraph and start a separate list.

Also, I noted that there is already a lovingly edited article on dwarves as a "race" in western fantasy games, movies, and books. Let's continue to keep the articles distinct. Alteripse 15:28, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

I am reverting just to initiate discussion. See the link provided with an earlier version of this page. It certainly looks as though people with the condition or people strongly identifying with and supportive of people with the condition are using the term. Unless you can give me a stronger argument, how about if we compromise and hedge it?

• Dwarfism.org Alteripse 22:05, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes, they do use it, but there are a few who are offended by the term 'dwarf.' In those cases the only PC term is 'little person' or just LP. Those people who are offended are of the easily offended variety and can be safely ignored. I even heard there was something being done to replace 'little person' *g*. Just thought you might want to hear from an actual midget-err I mean dwarf--shit I mean little person---FUCK I mean vertically challenged. ;-P Nathan J. Yoder 22:44, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think that Little People / Person is the most common term used to describe this condition, so why is the article under dwarfism? To me, dwarfism should be saved for the part about non-people, but the information on little people should be moved to an article called Little person --Quasipalm 29 June 2005 03:54 (UTC)

Bad idea for several reasons. First, remember that we want to title the articles with the most likely sought term. Our primary purpose is to write an encyclopedia, not enforce political correctness. Second, the term dwarf is hundreds of years old; the euphemism "little person" perhaps 3 decades and mainly in North America. Third, even beyond that I would strenuously object to any article that prefers to reserve a term for fantasy gaming which applies to a real world subject; many people think we are way out of balance already in that direction. Fourth, don't confuse a term for the condition with calling a person a name. There is nothing shameful about the term as a collective term for bone dysplasias even if we might not describe a particular person as "a dwarf." alteripse 29 June 2005 06:51 (UTC)

Just an observation from someone with no connection to the subject, but to me "little person" sounds far more demeaning than any of the alternatives. PeteVerdon

Agreed. Anyone affected with this condition care to weigh in on the matter?

I am a person with dwarfism, and I am also the vice president of LPA (Little People of America). Little people, or people with dwarfism is the commonly accepted term within our organization. For those who do not like the term "little people" LP is often substituted for the entire word. Dwarfs, or dwarfism is the accepted medical term for people with a skeletal dysplasia that causes short stature. Tslug 00:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)Bill Bradford

I've already voiced it, but I can voice it again. "Dwarf" as a term seems to be the one in most common usage and while offensive to some, is generally seen as benign. Little person actually does seem more offensive to me personally, which is why I think many just say "LP" instead. I think they should just stick with dwarf since it's so well recognized. Nathan J. Yoder 16:47, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I also feel very uncomfortable saying "little person", not only because it sounds demeaning, but because in my personal lexicon, "the little people" are faeries and leprechauns and such, so I have to stifle a giggle whenever it comes up. Is it okay to say "small person"? 216.75.170.81 20:24, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I could swear I've mentioned this before, but a quick scan doesn't show anything familiar. In my experience, young dwarfs (i.e., up to about the mid twenties or maybe early thirties) prefer the term dwarf (full disclosure: I fall into this category, and dwarf is my preferred term), and some feel that LP and Little Person are overly PC (compare "person with a visual impairment" or "person of African descent"). Short statured is acceptable, but overly clinical. Not sure what the elder population feels on the issue. Midget, though, is right out. Anyway, note that this is restricted to the US; in the UK, I believe the preferred term is "restricted growth"; Little Person is ridiculed as "typical American patronization", and I'm not sure what the status of "dwarf" is --User:Gordknot

Yeah little people is definitely a US term, when I first heard it I found it hilarious (although this was in the context of the awesome tv show 'Man vs Beast USA' where 49 'little people' competed with an elephant to tow an aeroplane). I always thought dwarf and midget were acceptable if used correctly. I guess midget is more common as an insult for a normal short person. Also heard a rival theory that dwarfs are midgets with beards.137.138.46.155 09:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

"Little people" sounds ridiculously superior, patronising and condescending to me. Littleghostboo[ talk ] 09:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm in med school and they told us to look up the "different types of dwarfism". naturally, I came straight to this page. So, even if it is out of vogue with the "little people", it is still one of the medical terms that is applied, as seen in the terms "thyroid dwarf" and "pituitary dwarf". Granted that this is only about the third article I have looked at, and none seems to highlight these two types since it is treatable so by the time they're fully grown they aren't as short anymore.

And there are a lot of medical terms that are deemed offensive, but actually is the precise term for a given condition. I'm still too uneducated to decide...maybe I will repost in about three weeks. - Freida

Alexander Pope

Is he really a dwarf? From the Pope page here a Wikipedia: "From early childhood he suffered numerous health problems, including Pott's disease (a form of tuberculosis affecting the spine) which deformed his body and stunted his growth. He never grew beyond 1.37m (4ft 6in)." I'm not sure that constitutes dwarfism, but I don't know. Can anyone resolve this? --Qwayfe 05:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

As a side note, average height during Pope's lifetime would've been notably lower than it is today. If I think about it again, I'll dig up statistics. Kfor 03:11, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Answers.com says that dwarfs range in height from 2 to 4 ft (5.08–10.16 cm). That's not set in stone, so he might or might not have been a true dwarf. I don't think we know enough. 67.71.143.190 16:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Answers.com has much erroneous medical information, and you have just provided us with an example. alteripse 02:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

2 to 4 ft is not equivalent to 5.08 to 10.16 cm. It's 60.96 to 121.92 cm. Littleghostboo[ talk ] 09:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Addition?

John Irving's book Son of the Circus also has characters who are dwarves. Would someone like to add it to the list of literary works? Also, back in the 1980s (1986), a television show came out with a dwarf in the starring role. David Rappaport played Simon McKay, The Wizard, in the (NBC?) show The Wizard. Rappaport had achondroplasia and stood 3'11. He also later appeared on L.A. Law, and there was a discussion about a spinoff series for his character. Arouette 16:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Added Memoirs of a Gnostic Dwarf by David Madsen. Not the most gentle book, but it is extremely well written. I'd write an article on Madsen and another on his book, but I'm sick of the beardos and assburgers set deleting articles about authors (and books and historical personages etc) as "not notable enough" just because they've never heard of anything that's outside their one-note interests.

Inital diagnosis

When are the symptoms of dwarfism usually initially found? Anyone? -Ravedave 05:18, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Some forms of dwarfism are recognizable at birth. Some are not recognized until the shortness becomes obvious in childhood. alteripse 22:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

A lot of people have been putting in their own personal tidbits that have nothing to do with the article. I suggest this page be closed off to anonymous edits. -Unsigned

Ya well I don't! Wikipedia doesnt work that way. If you support the "good guys" around here rather than the vandals, make yourself an account, put the article on your watchlist, and spend the 5 seconds it takes to revert vandalism when it occurs. But thanks for your concern. alteripse 02:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect. Wikipedia DOES in fact work that way, since it is in fact possible to do.

Want to point out vandalism in first section after intro in the first paragraph...don't know how to fix it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.123.60.49 (talk) 03:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Limb-lengthening surgery

Is there a reason that limb-lengthening surgery is not even mentioned here? It seems to me that it is controversial, and that the perspectives of both advocates and detractors of surgery are of interest, and informative with respect to a number of other appearance-altering surgeries performed on children. Cherylchase 05:03, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

The reason is that no one has added it. Many of our articles are like this-- works in progress. See discussion above about this specific topic. alteripse 14:08, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Lifespan

Are dwarf lifespans any different than normal? In the movie 'The Station Agent' the main character said that retiring early was normal for a dwarf. The page doesn't mention anything regarding lifespan. Sahuagin 03:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe it depends on the type of dwarfism. Thanatophoric dysplasia and Majewski's polydactyly syndrome tend to result in death in infancy. Individuals with primordial dwarfism seem to have shortened lifespans as well from what I can tell. However there are dwarfs who had lifespans well above average, like Józef Boruwłaski, but others did die young from complications related to their specific condition. Still early retirement, if that does indeed happen with dwarfs, could be caused by physical strain more than fear of early death, I believe most dwarfs have higher than normal rates of back and leg pain.--T. Anthony 05:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Life span for most people with dwarfism is normal. There is a slightly increased chance for fatalities based on sleep apnea, a common problem for many types of dwarfism. Also, in approximately 5% of people with achondroplasia, there seems to be an increased chance of sudden death associated with the condition, but the cause is unknown (source, LPA Medical Advisory Board). The majority of early fatalities in dwarfism seem to be caused by surgical accidents (intubation can sometimes be difficult). Tslug 00:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)Bill B.

Reproductive system

I have been looking for high quality information regarding anatomical and hormonal differences in the reproductive systems of little people, if any. I would like to know how their small statue and genetic differences affect this. Unfortunately, I can't find any resources that aren't pornographic using normal search avenues and I am out of ideas. I figured if anyone can point me in the right direction, the maintainers of this article can. Thanks. -Unsigned

Briefly,

1. Most bone dysplasias do not affect the reproductive system
2. Secondary sex characteristics (breasts, penis, etc) tend to be proportional to trunk size and are usually within normal size range. Bone development has nothing to do with growth of genitalia.
3. As explained in the article, hypopituitarism is usually no longer referred to as "dwarfism", but the severe congenital form of this condition is associated with underdevelopment of male genitalia (largely treatable with growth hormone and testosterone). alteripse 01:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Danny DeVito

I removed this: "The most famous celebrity with dwarfism is widely considered to be Academy Award nominated producer, director, writer, and actor Danny DeVito, who is 4'10"." DeVito is short but not a dwarf. --DrRisk13 15:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes March 2007

I hope I have not offended anyone by deleting some of the material. I removed the material on insular dwarfism and put two different pointers to it because it has its own article and is unrelated to the rest of this article. I removed the references to growth hormone in hypopituitarism and ISS as that too is minimally relevant to use in bone dysplasias. Please discuss here before replacing, thanks. -Unsigned

The article still lack coverage of any of the social aspects such as LPA and the parallel "little people social culture" described in books and television shows. The medical section could be expanded as well: classification systems, synopses of some of the major types, mention of the specific gene defects found recently for many of the conditions, and better treatment of the related orthopedic and neurosurgical problems. alteripse 01:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This is so messed up

This site is being bombarded with idiots such as User:Abbram and all of those people and I wish that I would stop getting so many warnings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by OMGIOTS (talk • contribs) 19:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

Definition

The definition given in the introduction of this article claimed that people with proportional dwarfism are not actually dwarfs. However, the cite given for this claim (Little People of America website) says precisely the opposite. I have corrected the article to be consistent with the cite. CKarnstein 02:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

You are correct. Proportional dwarfism is a form of dwarfism. People with this condition used to be called "midgets" which is now generally considered an offensive word (think N-word for African Americans). The LPA website is correct (I am the VP of Programs for Little People of America). Tslug 00:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)Bill B.

Remove the picture of Gimli

Gimli is not a typical representation of someone with dwarfism. It is a CGI image of an average sized actor. Dwarves is an invented mythological race created by Tolkein. Dwarfism is the common accepted medical term for people with a genetic cause of short stature. Tslug 00:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)Bill Bradford

I removed the picture of Gimli. The picture of Gimli constituted vandalism and was removed since he was for one a fictional character, and second a fictional character that wasn't afflicted by the medical condition of Dwarfism. No more vandalizing of articles, please, or I'll report the Trolls to the appropriate administrator. Tractrpl 01:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I mean this completely seriously

But where's the mention of midget porn? I think that's a very large part of the social understanding of little people/dwarves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 04:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)