Talk:Ford Model T

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An event mentioned in this article is a May 27 selected anniversary.

This really should be Ford Model T, in my opinion, but I'm unclear how to move it with the redirect page already there, and would be interested in hearing a heads-up if I'm wrong about it in any case. Hephaestos 00:47 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)

Cut and paste.

cnn carrying an story that contradicts the facts in this article

 CNN  published this article on Aug 12, 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/06/model.t/index.html

that claims the first model t finished production on aug 12. It also has a lot of facts about ford and the model t that are interesting an would be good to site for this article.

Actually it says that production began on Aug 12; however, both of the links (The Henry Ford Museum established by Henry himself and the Model T Club of America which has monthly production data online) say that it was October. Perhaps a prototype was made in August? Rmhermen 04:31, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

Photograph of a Model T suspension

I just happened to have this photograph of the suspension of a Model T but I'm not sure how to integrate it into this article. I'll leave it here in hopes that someone can find something to do with it. Triddle 04:06, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done! (nice picture) - Adrian Pingstone 09:17, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That's a good photo, but please note that the small coil spring shown is actually an after-market shock absorber, and was not original factory equipment.

Yes, that photo is rather misleading. We should consider revising it with a stock configuration.

Also, note that the car in this photo has its hand-crank in the front, which contradicts the "right side, not in front, as commonly believed" line in the "Engine and means of starting" section.

Carburetion day

I've read the T from 1907 used a Holley Model G carb. Trekphiler 20:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cost?

Can anyone add the cost of this vehicle on its release and throughout time? Also the present cost that a vintage Model T can bring? This would substantially improve the article, as it is stated as being a cheap car for the masses in that time. --64.75.187.201 06:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Much of that is already in there: "It was sold in the beginning at a price of $850 when competing cars often cost $2000-$3000. By the 1920s the price had fallen to $300 (about $3,300 in 2005 inflation-adjusted dollars)" As to the current prices - there were millions of them, they are not especially valuable - and many hot rod versions are built with modern fiberglass bodies, instead of old parts. Rmhermen 17:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't doubt the Japan black paint was cheaper; I've also heard it was preferred because it dried faster, & therefore was more suited to hi-vol production. Trekphiler 11:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard both stories. But note that barns, etc. always used to be painted with red lead paint, because it was cheapest (because it covered better with less). I don't know if that is relevant to car paint or not, though. Gzuckier 14:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Personal comment

I've called the Boeing 737 a "Tin Lizzie" of jetliners (but never in public), because it shares some symbolism with the Model T: mass manufactured and wildly popular among airlines, with an air of cheapness (at least to the airlines; otherwise they presumably wouldn't be purchasing it en masse). I'd also extend the nickname to the Boeing 727 as well (the previous popularity king). At least the Boeing 727s and 737s aren't all in black! — Rickyrab | Talk 21:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cranky

I changed the "front crank" to "side crank". The '03 T (all early Ts?) were side-cranks. (I've seen pictures, & it surprised me, too.) This appears to have changed; I don't know when. Trekphiler 11:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed statement - there were no '03 Model T's. It didn't come out until '08. Rmhermen 17:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References to a side crank in '03 most assuridly referred to the original Model "A" (not the '27 to '31 Car of the same name). The original "A" had the engine under the seat and was indeed cranked from the side. All "T" had the engine in the front and a fron mounted crank as did it's predicessors the Models N, R and S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.64.15 (talk) 20:19, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Concurrent Model T Engine Article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T_engine

The article on the Model T engine is not linked to from the engine section here. The information is more or less the same, but there are several pictures and notes about changes made over time. I will go ahead and add the link and someone can meld it in later if needed. Decatur 19:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to keep it separate since we have so many articles about Ford engines. --216.49.153.98 19:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Add to article

The windshield (how was it cleared from rain, for example) and convertible top (how was it lowered on sunny days?) should be mentioned in the article. Badagnani 01:37, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalization?

The section "Engine and means of starting" contains the sentence "Before starting a Model T deul fucking power with the hand crank, you had to retard the spark, or you stood a chance of damaging the starter or having the hand crank spin around wildly and break your arm." I think that "deul fucking power" is extraneous (and misspelled.) I attempted to edit the document but did not find the additional text in the text offered for editing. I don't know who to proceed in this case and am alerting the community in hopes that the more knowledgeable will fix this. Mark F. West38.112.183.231 19:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh.. Wow, you really take that seriously, don't you?216.110.199.218 (talk) 18:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

eh em. That's so cool! I never new that Tin Lizzie was a model t ford

24.81.23.167 05:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Barbara[reply]

Fuel economy

The article claims 25 to 30 mpg, a figure that I've seen on a number of web sites. However, I'm concerned that people may be just parroting the same inflated number. http://www.modelt.ca/faq-fs.html claims "12-14 miles per US gallon" while http://cbs5.com/seenon/local_story_228191600.html and http://www.energy-group.com/automobiles.htm claim "13 miles per gallon in the city and 21 on the highway". Julesd 17:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I've edited the article to say "13-21 mpg" based on Ford's own claim at http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=858. Julesd 17:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Color Black

My history professor stated that the color black was chosen because it was cheap, readily available, and had quicker drying times than other colors (which if your trying to crank these out as fast as possible, your going to choose the color that dries the fastest). The article states it was chosen because it was cheap and "durable". 134.121.182.124 02:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first model T fords weren't available in black at all.

Quoting the talk page of wikiquote:

"

According to the BBC program QI the quote "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." OR: "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black." Was never actually said by Henry Ford or at least there is no evidence he did do.

Luke Corcoran, United Kingdom

Really? I won a table quiz on that quote as a kid. I'm disillusioned.

He did say this; the quote is from his autobiography. Incidentally, the spelling of colour with a 'u' is intentional. Despite being an American, that is how it is spelled in his autobiography. 137.201.242.130 14:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point being made in QI was that, whether or not Henry Ford said it, it was untrue - early Model T Fords were not black. Fys. Ta fys aym. 11:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly -- he generated this quip after the more fully adopting the assembly line. After he realized that drying paint took the longest of any step, he had his factory switch to the fastest drying paint they could find, which, of course, was black. --JamesDMurray 14:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"

82.10.108.49 (talk) 19:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black box

I saw a TV show once that talked about a strange part that was included in an early Ford Model (I think it was the T and I think it was a black box) that no one seemed to know the purpose of. The show was about a superstition that this black box made the car a death machine, that it somehow controlled the car to some extent and caused wrecks. I'm not suggesting we include info on this urban legend in this article, I'm just curious and wondering if anyone here knows anything about this. Callowschoolboy 22:41, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that the box existed for this purpose is clearly nonsense. The technology of the day wasn't up to doing that kind of thing. Whatever the box was would have had to connect into some major subsystems (brakes, steering...something like that) and the mechanics of the day would certainly have figured it out. These weren't like modern times when you took your car to the dealership to get it fixed. You fixed it yourself - or you found a local mechanic to fix it. In any case, all of the people who are restoring Model T's, we'd have long ago discovered what this mysterious box was for. So at best it was an urban legend of the times. Do you have any references for the fact that people believed it? If not, there is nothing more to be said. SteveBaker (talk) 16:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Curved Dash Oldsmobile

As I understand it, the Curved Dash Oldsmobile was the first automobile produced in volume, but it was not built on an assembly line. Ford pioneered the use of the assembly line for the Model T. Even the Ford Model N, for example, was "mass produced", however, not using an assembly line and in substantially small numbers as a result.Andyjwagner (talk) 12:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Historic year"

I'm a bit confused. If the Model T was produced from 1908 onwards, why/how did it set 1907 as "the historic year that the automobile came into popular usage" (as claimed in the opening paragraph)? DH85868993 (talk) 04:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That year was wrong. This article seems to be a frequent target for vandalism that changes the year from 1908 to 1907. Very subtle. 1908 is the correct year for both production and coming into popular usage. --clpo13_(talk) 06:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 06:25, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Location of he speed selector/Hand brake

It say in the article that the lever is on the left of the Driver's seat yet on BBC's top gear Jeremy Clarkson drove a right hand drive (That wheel on the right side of the car) Model T with the lever clear visable on his right between the seat and the door. I've changed the wording to 'road side' to reflect this. i also removed 'so the Model T was somewhat like a modern automatic transmission vehicle to drive.' because it was in no way like a modern Automatic, the point was in reference to its lack of a cluth, it still required the opperation of a gear stick making it if anything simillar to Triptonic. (Morcus (talk) 23:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.52.246 (talk) 03:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Man in black

" However, this theory is not supported by fact, and the earliest Model Ts were not available in black at all." IIRC, Georgano supports it with facts. And it's not "the earliest Model Ts" where black became standard, but the mass-production 1914-26s, which were unquestionably all in black, probably for the stated reasons, durability, cost, & fast-drying. I'd suggest fast-drying was the decider, since the cars were coming off the line every 93m; if the paint didn't dry pretty fast... Trekphiler (talk) 07:17, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The claim is that black paint was not faster drying than other colors but that the switch to black only speeded production by eliminating changeover times in the paint shop. Rmhermen (talk) 19:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That, too. Trekphiler (talk) 23:21, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the numbers

Does anybody have total production figures for after 1915, by year? I think they'd be of interest. Trekphiler (talk) 07:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First Car

I don't see any thing mentioning that Henry Ford invented the automobile, and that the Model T was the world's first car.